I wonder whether any of the gurus here can throw some light on what
may have gone wrong with my attempted use of Carl's starter. (This
was several months ago now, so I'm relying on my memory of what
happened.

After receiving the 1847 Oregon starter, I activated it as described
in the info sheet, using fresh bottled water. Things seemed fine for
the first 24 hours but by the time I wanted to use my active starter,
it had a pink colour all over the top part. I wanted to give it a try
but decided against it in the end.

Any thoughts, anyone? Without being a nutter over it, I'm always
careful about keeping things sufficiently clean that there should be
cross-contamination.

Sojourner

sojourner@homeandaway wrote:
> I wonder whether any of the gurus here can throw some light on what
> may have gone wrong with my attempted use of Carl's starter. (This
> was several months ago now, so I'm relying on my memory of what
> happened.
>
> After receiving the 1847 Oregon starter, I activated it as described
> in the info sheet, using fresh bottled water. Things seemed fine for
> the first 24 hours but by the time I wanted to use my active starter,
> it had a pink colour all over the top part.
When was that? hours, days, weeks months later?
How did you keep the starter during that time?

Sam

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:49:19 -0600, Sam
> wrote:

>sojourner@homeandaway wrote:
>> I wonder whether any of the gurus here can throw some light on what
>> may have gone wrong with my attempted use of Carl's starter. (This
>> was several months ago now, so I'm relying on my memory of what
>> happened.
>>
>> After receiving the 1847 Oregon starter, I activated it as described
>> in the info sheet, using fresh bottled water. Things seemed fine for
>> the first 24 hours but by the time I wanted to use my active starter,
>> it had a pink colour all over the top part.
>When was that? hours, days, weeks months later?
>How did you keep the starter during that time?
>Sam

Sorry for the delay; somehow I missed your reply.

When I received the (dry) starter, I put it in the fridge for 2 weeks
because I didn't have time to get started until then. At that point I
followed the recipe/recommendations on the web pages. Everything OK
for the first two days after starting to reactivate it and also at the
point where I added the flour/water and put it in the fridge.

Carl's instructions said " It will need feeding about every couple of
weeks, just add 1 cup warm skim milk or water, 1 T Sugar and 1 cup
flour" but I never got as far as that because, after about 5 days it
was such a horrible pink colour I decided not to risk it. I don't know
what, in particular, the pink stuff signifies but did see on a couple
of web pages the advise not to use it but get rid of it straight away.

Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.

Sojourner

Sojourner wrote:
I don't know
> what, in particular, the pink stuff signifies but did see on a couple
> of web pages the advise not to use it but get rid of it straight away.
>
> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>
> Sojourner


Was it very watery and smelled something like beer?

That would be called Hooch and is just alcohol the yeast gives off when
it is feeding. You may hear old timers mentioning having a nip of Hooch
which is basically homemade alcohol.

I wouldn't drink it and normally pour it off. If only a little I just
stir in in, it hasn't hurt anything.

To me it just means my starter is real hungry 'now' when it gives off hooch.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Sojourner wrote:

> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.

By "old dough," are you talking about retaining a bit of a commercial
yeast dough and using it in the next batch? If so, over a period of a
couple months it will turn into a wild culture. You can aid in that by
using a portion of whole grain in your doughs.

B/

On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:38:15 -0700, Brian Mailman
> wrote:

>Sojourner wrote:
>
>> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
>> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>
>By "old dough," are you talking about retaining a bit of a commercial
>yeast dough and using it in the next batch? If so, over a period of a
>couple months it will turn into a wild culture. You can aid in that by
>using a portion of whole grain in your doughs.

The first time I made what's become my "standard" recipe, I started
with
800 g strong white flour
50 g wholemeal flour
50 g rye flour
2 level tsps salt
1/2 level tsp dried yeast, not fast-acting
600 ml water

The first time I made this, I started by rehydrating the yeast then,
after about 15 minutes,mix all the ingredients together just enough to
make sure everything is mixed and wet. Then I covered it with
clingfilm and left it in a cool corner of my kitchen for 24 hours
before diving it into two loaf tins and covering for another 2 1/2
hours for it to rise again, before baking it.

We liked it, so the second time I made it, I saved 150 g of the dough,
covered, in the fridge.

Now, when I make that bread, I mix the old dough in with it when doing
the initial mix, then 24 hours later, save 150 g of my combined
doughs. I'm sure everyone will tell me it's not sour dough and I'm
sure they're right, but it is a tasty bread that rises despite no
kneading at all (my back isn't up to it).

On Fri, 15 May 2009 11:22:54 -0300, Mike Romain
> wrote:

>Sojourner wrote:
>I don't know
>> what, in particular, the pink stuff signifies but did see on a couple
>> of web pages the advise not to use it but get rid of it straight away.
>>
>> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
>> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>>
>> Sojourner
>
>
>Was it very watery and smelled something like beer?

No, not at all. I like the smell of beer and have enjoyed visits to
old-fashioned breweries. This stuff smelt vile.

It was all bright pink, the dough as well, not just the liquid. I'd
probably have used it because I didn't know any better but a quick
look on the web indicated that anything that had gone pink was suspect
and should be thrown away without delay. That's what I did and that's
how I waved goodbye to Carl's starter as it whirled away down the
down.

Sojourner

On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:40:07 +0100, Sojourner wrote:

>On Fri, 15 May 2009 11:22:54 -0300, Mike Romain
> wrote:
>
>>Sojourner wrote:
>>I don't know
>>> what, in particular, the pink stuff signifies but did see on a couple
>>> of web pages the advise not to use it but get rid of it straight away.
>>>
>>> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
>>> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>>>
>>> Sojourner
>>
>>
>>Was it very watery and smelled something like beer?
>
>No, not at all. I like the smell of beer and have enjoyed visits to
>old-fashioned breweries. This stuff smelt vile.
>
>It was all bright pink, the dough as well, not just the liquid. I'd
>probably have used it because I didn't know any better but a quick
>look on the web indicated that anything that had gone pink was suspect
>and should be thrown away without delay. That's what I did and that's
>how I waved goodbye to Carl's starter as it whirled away down the
>down.
>
>Sojourner


Starters can surely get contaminated with various molds. It happens.

Although you can send away for another starter, you can also proceed
to making one yourself. You will find at least 101 surefire methods of
making a starter from scratch for every 100 sourdough junkies you ask.

My own method works with either AP flour (takes a bit longer) or rye
(gets you to the goal a bit faster).

Start with a 2 spoons of flour and 2 spoons of water. Mix together and
allow to sit at room temp in a covered jar or Tupperware or
equivalent.

12 hours later, throw out all but the scrapings that remain in the
jar. Repeat with amounts indicated above. Continue for a week or two.

Once you have regular activity and the starter is stable - again, my
own opinion is that it'll get to that point in 8-14 days, then you can
increase the amounts in your refreshment of the starter to get
yourself enough to use in a recipe, sponge or preferment. At that
point, I refrigerate my starters and refresh them once every week or
two or just before I am going to bake.

And I certainly have had the things go south on me. Too hot in the
house, too cold in the house, the top pots off in the fridge and it
all spills out or it spends a week, popped open, next to a nice wedge
of Roquefort.

Flour and water are pretty darn cheap, but so are opinions and you'll
find a lot of them around here.

Boron

Sojourner wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:38:15 -0700, Brian Mailman
> > wrote:
>
>>Sojourner wrote:
>>
>>> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
>>> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>>
>>By "old dough," are you talking about retaining a bit of a commercial
>>yeast dough and using it in the next batch? If so, over a period of a
>>couple months it will turn into a wild culture. You can aid in that by
>>using a portion of whole grain in your doughs.
>
> The first time I made what's become my "standard" recipe, I started
> with...

[...]

> Now, when I make that bread, I mix the old dough in with it when doing
> the initial mix, then 24 hours later, save 150 g of my combined
> doughs. I'm sure everyone will tell me it's not sour dough...

So in one word, the answer is "yes."

Sourdough is a process, not the name of a specific culture. It is the
process of using old, or soured, dough to begin the next batch. So yes,
you're doing a form of sourdough.

As I said, if you continue doing this--that is, retaining some of the
dough from one bake to the next, in a few months it will "turn over" and
become a sourdough culture as the commercial yeast dies off and the wild
ones take over (as well as being colonized by the second component of
the symbiote, the lactobacilli). Since it seems you're using some whole
grain flours in your baking, the turnover will be somewhat faster.

B/

<Sojourner> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:38:15 -0700, Brian Mailman
> > wrote:
>
>>Sojourner wrote:
>>
>>> Since then, I've worked with old dough and slow fermentations instead
>>> but I'd still prefer to have a go at sourdough.
>>
>>By "old dough," are you talking about retaining a bit of a commercial
>>yeast dough and using it in the next batch? If so, over a period of a
>>couple months it will turn into a wild culture. You can aid in that by
>>using a portion of whole grain in your doughs.
>
> The first time I made what's become my "standard" recipe, I started
> with
> 800 g strong white flour
> 50 g wholemeal flour
> 50 g rye flour
> 2 level tsps salt
> 1/2 level tsp dried yeast, not fast-acting
> 600 ml water
>
> The first time I made this, I started by rehydrating the yeast then,
> after about 15 minutes,mix all the ingredients together just enough to
> make sure everything is mixed and wet. Then I covered it with
> clingfilm and left it in a cool corner of my kitchen for 24 hours
> before diving it into two loaf tins and covering for another 2 1/2
> hours for it to rise again, before baking it.
>
> We liked it, so the second time I made it, I saved 150 g of the dough,
> covered, in the fridge.
>
> Now, when I make that bread, I mix the old dough in with it when doing
> the initial mix, then 24 hours later, save 150 g of my combined
> doughs. I'm sure everyone will tell me it's not sour dough and I'm
> sure they're right, but it is a tasty bread that rises despite no
> kneading at all (my back isn't up to it).

This is the oft-used method for pain de campagne.
Graham