Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?

Samuel Fromartz wrote:
>
> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?

For that matter, how vital is it that it be linen? How about cotton canvas? or even (shudder) a polyester canvas weave? If it's well floured, does it matter?

--


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--
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>>>>>>>> change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me <<<<<<<<<<<<

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I'd spend the first four sharpening the axe.
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:02:38 GMT, Samuel Fromartz >
wrote:

>Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
>essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?

Howdy,

Yes, it is the same stuff...

In addition I have used linen and cotton (I won't even dignify Carl's
comments about other materials <g>) and the linen is far superior. The
cotton gets "clammy" and tends to stick much more. The linen somehow
seems to feel dry and requires very little flour to release.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:28:56 GMT, Carl West >
wrote:

>For that matter, how vital is it that it be linen? How about cotton canvas? or even (shudder) a polyester canvas weave? If it's well floured, does it matter?

Hi Carl,

I made a playful comment to the OP about the above, but will add he

I know that cotton does not work as well as linen, but poly might work
just fine. It would certainly seem an easy experiment.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>

If I buy linen for proofing, I will go to a fabric store and purchase linen
that hasn't been dyed.

Dee

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:03:19 -0500, "Dee Randall"
<deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:

>
>"Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
...
>> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
>> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>>
>
>If I buy linen for proofing, I will go to a fabric store and purchase linen
>that hasn't been dyed.
>
>Dee
>

You can get unprimed, undyed linen canvas at art supply places, but I
wonder if it is food safe. Even unprimed linen canvas might have some
sort of sizing on it, as could fabric store linen. I also have the
feeling that washing it would take the stiffness out of it and it
might not be as useful for a couche or basket lining.

My own feeling would be to head for a place that has linen tea towels
and use those. It will be ideal for the oval baskets I have on order
(and wonder if they will ever arrive).

Boron

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:14:24 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>I also have the
>feeling that washing it would take the stiffness out of it and it
>might not be as useful for a couche or basket lining.

Howdy,

Wash it, iron it, and it is ready to go...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:36:50 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:14:24 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>I also have the
>>feeling that washing it would take the stiffness out of it and it
>>might not be as useful for a couche or basket lining.
>
>Howdy,
>
>Wash it, iron it, and it is ready to go...
>
>HTH,


"Iron?" What is this strange household implement you speak of?

Boron

Years ago someone suggested that old tablecloths from a charity store
might be a good source of linen. I tried it, and it was good. The =
linen
did not seem to care what kind of a basket or frame it was suspended
from, except that the support needed to be porous.

But, frankly, bannetons, peels, baking stones, seem to me to be a lot
of trouble, when good bread can be made in pans, or by raising dough-
loaves on trays, which can be placed in the oven directly when the time =
is
right.

Of course, I am not trying to impress anyone with the artistic qualities
of my crusts, except Mrs. Adams, whose only requirements are that the=20
crusts not be seeded nor too dark-brown, on account of perceived
health threats. Similarly for linen liners previous used by unknown
persons for unknown purposes.

---
DickA

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
Years ago someone suggested that old tablecloths from a charity store
might be a good source of linen. I tried it, and it was good. The linen
did not seem to care what kind of a basket or frame it was suspended
from, except that the support needed to be porous.

DickA

I second this "old tablecloths" use, as I was given many old linen
tablecloths and runners and large napkins by my mother-in-law. I have used
this linen in cheap wicker baskets that I bought specifically to see if it
would work. I did cut them in a "round" large enough so as to not scrooch
down when the dough was put in the basket, but I didn't have the "right
stuff/energy" to hem them and long-stitch the linen to the basket. However,
this "aged" linen worked very well.

DeeDovey

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:47:49 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>"Iron?" What is this strange household implement you speak of?
>
>Boron

Hi Boron,

I apologize...

It is an ancient tool, used for an ancient practice no longer
practiced by many (at least in our home) <g>.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

in article , Boron Elgar at
wrote on 17/2/04 10:14 am:

> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:03:19 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
>>> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>>>
>>
>> If I buy linen for proofing, I will go to a fabric store and purchase linen
>> that hasn't been dyed.
>>
>> Dee
>>
>
> You can get unprimed, undyed linen canvas at art supply places, but I
> wonder if it is food safe. Even unprimed linen canvas might have some
> sort of sizing on it, as could fabric store linen. I also have the
> feeling that washing it would take the stiffness out of it and it
> might not be as useful for a couche or basket lining.
>
> My own feeling would be to head for a place that has linen tea towels
> and use those. It will be ideal for the oval baskets I have on order
> (and wonder if they will ever arrive).
>
> Boron
Ikea has tea towels that are part linen and part cotton. I have been using
them for basket liners for years. they release the dough easily. They are
quite inexpenssive. they are, however, much to soft to make a couche.
Ellen

Most of these unbleached linens/cottons have quite a good bit if size in
them, it's what makes them moth proof for weavering fibres.
This would need to be washed out before using for food..........qahtan



"Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>

That was meant to be weaving fibres...... qahtan



"qahtan" > wrote in message
.. .
> Most of these unbleached linens/cottons have quite a good bit if size in
> them, it's what makes them moth proof for weavering fibres.
> This would need to be washed out before using for food..........qahtan
>
>
>
> "Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> > essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
> >
>
>

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:34:00 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:47:49 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>"Iron?" What is this strange household implement you speak of?
>>
>>Boron
>
>Hi Boron,
>
>I apologize...
>
>It is an ancient tool, used for an ancient practice no longer
>practiced by many (at least in our home) <g>.
>
>All the best,


I have a beautiful Irish linen tablecloth and napkins that only come
out at Thanksgiving. They gets washed immediately after use, but do
not get ironed (we really do have one and a fancy ironing board, too)
until the next holiday or the creases set into them something fierce.

There is something to be said for no-iron table linens.

Boron (who is fortunate to have a husband who irons like a demon and
enjoys it)

"Ellen Wickberg" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Boron Elgar at
> wrote on 17/2/04 10:14 am:
>
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:03:19 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Samuel Fromartz" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> >>> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
> >>>
> >>
> >> If I buy linen for proofing, I will go to a fabric store and purchase
linen
> >> that hasn't been dyed.
> >>
> >> Dee
> >>
> >
> > You can get unprimed, undyed linen canvas at art supply places, but I
> > wonder if it is food safe. Even unprimed linen canvas might have some
> > sort of sizing on it, as could fabric store linen. I also have the
> > feeling that washing it would take the stiffness out of it and it
> > might not be as useful for a couche or basket lining.
> >
> > My own feeling would be to head for a place that has linen tea towels
> > and use those. It will be ideal for the oval baskets I have on order
> > (and wonder if they will ever arrive).
> >
> > Boron
> Ikea has tea towels that are part linen and part cotton. I have been
using
> them for basket liners for years. they release the dough easily. They are
> quite inexpenssive. they are, however, much to soft to make a couche.
> Ellen

Is what you call a couche what I am describing?
When I have three baguettes (or whatever) I space four 2x4's at intervals
and drape a long floured linen "runner" over them; and I put my 3 breads in
between for rising; and I cover with another long cloth (or if I have two
breads, I will cover it with the same long cloth). If this is what one
calls a couche, I find linen satisfactory for this -- maybe not the tea
towels, tho.
Dee

I've had the same experiences as Kenneth. I've read that flax-based linen
breathes just right for proofing bread whereas cotton does trap the moisture
too much (like sweating in a cotton t-shirt, I suppose).

I always thought it intriguing that France is well-known for artists and
bakers and the two groups share the use of linen in their work.

For a couple years I kept going into every art store I could find. They
either did not have flax-based linen (only cotton) or else it was crazily
expensive. Finally, I found the San Francisco Baking Institute to have
decent prices. 31-inch wide is $9/yard.

http://www.sfbi.com/oc.shtml

Chuck Waterfield

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> ] On Behalf Of
> Kenneth
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:22 PM
> To:
> Subject: Linen
>
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:02:38 GMT, Samuel Fromartz >
> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
> >essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>
> Howdy,
>
> Yes, it is the same stuff...
>
> In addition I have used linen and cotton (I won't even dignify Carl's
> comments about other materials <g>) and the linen is far superior. The
> cotton gets "clammy" and tends to stick much more. The linen somehow
> seems to feel dry and requires very little flour to release.
>
> HTH,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

OK you've convinced me. I will try and get the flax linen. I've been seeking
this for some time because my loaves do not hold up well in cotton kitchen
towels.
Sam

on 2/19/04 8:30 PM, Chuck Waterfield wrote:

> I've had the same experiences as Kenneth. I've read that flax-based linen
> breathes just right for proofing bread whereas cotton does trap the moisture
> too much (like sweating in a cotton t-shirt, I suppose).
>
> I always thought it intriguing that France is well-known for artists and
> bakers and the two groups share the use of linen in their work.
>
> For a couple years I kept going into every art store I could find. They
> either did not have flax-based linen (only cotton) or else it was crazily
> expensive. Finally, I found the San Francisco Baking Institute to have
> decent prices. 31-inch wide is $9/yard.
>
> http://www.sfbi.com/oc.shtml
>
> Chuck Waterfield
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> ] On Behalf Of
>> Kenneth
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:22 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: Linen
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:02:38 GMT, Samuel Fromartz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
>>> essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Yes, it is the same stuff...
>>
>> In addition I have used linen and cotton (I won't even dignify Carl's
>> comments about other materials <g>) and the linen is far superior. The
>> cotton gets "clammy" and tends to stick much more. The linen somehow
>> seems to feel dry and requires very little flour to release.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>> _______________________________________________
>> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>>
>> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
>

TMB Baking (google has their web site) will send couche linen. It's by
the yard. I washed the first one - mistake. It was a nice soft cloth
about half its former size.

Samuel Fromartz wrote:
> OK you've convinced me. I will try and get the flax linen. I've been seeking
> this for some time because my loaves do not hold up well in cotton kitchen
> towels.
> Sam
>
> on 2/19/04 8:30 PM, Chuck Waterfield wrote:
>
>
>>I've had the same experiences as Kenneth. I've read that flax-based linen
>>breathes just right for proofing bread whereas cotton does trap the moisture
>>too much (like sweating in a cotton t-shirt, I suppose).
>>
>>I always thought it intriguing that France is well-known for artists and
>>bakers and the two groups share the use of linen in their work.
>>
>>For a couple years I kept going into every art store I could find. They
>>either did not have flax-based linen (only cotton) or else it was crazily
>>expensive. Finally, I found the San Francisco Baking Institute to have
>>decent prices. 31-inch wide is $9/yard.
>>
>>http://www.sfbi.com/oc.shtml
>>
>>Chuck Waterfield
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From:
] On Behalf Of
>>>Kenneth
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:22 PM
>>>To:
>>>Subject: Linen
>>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:02:38 GMT, Samuel Fromartz >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does anyone know whether the linen canvas for proofing long loaves is
>>>>essentially the same linen you can get in an art supply store?
>>>
>>>Howdy,
>>>
>>>Yes, it is the same stuff...
>>>
>>>In addition I have used linen and cotton (I won't even dignify Carl's
>>>comments about other materials <g>) and the linen is far superior. The
>>>cotton gets "clammy" and tends to stick much more. The linen somehow
>>>seems to feel dry and requires very little flour to release.
>>>
>>>HTH,
>>>
>>>--
>>>Kenneth
>>>
>>>If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>>_____________________________________________ __
>>>rec.food.sourdough mailing list

>>>http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
>>
>


--
John Sanderson
Walnut Creek, CA

"Va vecchio John, per la tua via"

John Sanderson wrote:

> TMB Baking (google has their web site) will send couche linen. It's by
> the yard. I washed the first one - mistake. It was a nice soft cloth
> about half its former size.

I can vouch for the product. While attending a seminar there I picked some
up and am very happy with the results. Don't wash it though

SFBI
http://www.sfbi.com/index.shtml

TMB
http://www.tmbbaking.com/

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Could you tell me about the seminar you took there? I read about this
place in a baking book I got for Christmas. There are some baking
classes offered for regular people - as opposed to serious bakers who
want to bake professionally - that I am interested in. I'd love to hear
if anyone here has taken their classes. One even involves growing your
own starter and baking with it.

marcella

In article > ,
Reg > wrote:

> I can vouch for the product. While attending a seminar there I picked some
> up and am very happy with the results. Don't wash it though
>
> SFBI
> http://www.sfbi.com/index.shtml
>
> TMB
> http://www.tmbbaking.com/

Marcella Tracy Peek wrote:

> Could you tell me about the seminar you took there? I read about this
> place in a baking book I got for Christmas. There are some baking
> classes offered for regular people - as opposed to serious bakers who
> want to bake professionally - that I am interested in. I'd love to hear
> if anyone here has taken their classes. One even involves growing your
> own starter and baking with it.


The class I took was called, at that time, "Baking Bread II, The
Fundamentals of Artesian Baking". A quick look at the class
schedule tells me they've changed the content somewhat by
putting all of the sourdough material into the advanced class,
so I think it's changed somewhat.

The course was definetely for pro's, and it was pretty expensive
($950). It was worth every cent to me, but it sounds like you
want something more basic.

http://www.sfbi.com/sched.shtml

If I can editorialize a bit, I think classes are best when you're
interested in learning the more advanced material. The basics of
bread making are well covered in books and various free sources
on the net.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

> snip<
> The class I took was called, at that time, "Baking Bread II, The
> Fundamentals of Artesian Baking". A quick look at the class
> snip<

Even though there is a distinct tendency towards high hydration doughs these
days, the above might be a bit too much :-))
Kim

Kim Grauballe wrote:

> Even though there is a distinct tendency towards high hydration doughs these
> days, the above might be a bit too much :-))

Well, today I spent some time digging up a old manual from a
class I took in order to help someone. Your contribution
has been to make fun of a typo. Give yourself a pat on the
back.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Reg" > wrote in message
m...
> Kim Grauballe wrote:
>
> > Even though there is a distinct tendency towards high hydration doughs
these
> > days, the above might be a bit too much :-))
>
> Well, today I spent some time digging up a old manual from a
> class I took in order to help someone. Your contribution
> has been to make fun of a typo. Give yourself a pat on the
> back.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>

Sorry, no harm intended, unfortunate tendency of mine, just couldn't help
it.
Kim

"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> John Sanderson wrote:
>
> > TMB Baking (google has their web site) will send couche linen. It's by
> > the yard. I washed the first one - mistake. It was a nice soft cloth
> > about half its former size.
>
> I can vouch for the product. While attending a seminar there I picked some
> up and am very happy with the results. Don't wash it though
>
> SFBI
> http://www.sfbi.com/index.shtml
>
> TMB
> http://www.tmbbaking.com/


What you describe as "couche" linen, is it the linen listed in 31" 26" and
18" wide sizes that they have listed? Which do you prefer? Does the linen
have sizing in it?
Thanks,
Dee

>