In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
sourdough bread..

I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
according to them)
1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white

I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
begin with.

I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.

Boron

(I am now cross-posting this to alt.bread.recipes, too)

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
>sourdough bread..
>
>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
>1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
>according to them)
>1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white
>
>I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
>this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
>before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
>about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
>begin with.
>
>I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.

Day 2 - early morning

The Day 1 starter was stunningly bubbly and bouncy looking this
morning.

The starter was so active, in fact, that I decided to just add the 1/2
cup durum, 1-1/2 cups flour & 1-1/2 cups water. Nothing else. I did
not substitute anything at all for the additional yeast the recipe
calls for.

As a side note: I usually use fresh yeast in this recipe and because
it makes such active starters, I do not let them sit much beyond 12
hours. Since I know my sourdough starters can retain activity for
quite awhile with any sort of refreshment, I am hoping that this holds
true for the cocodrillo.

My concern is how this will do in the mixer for 17 minutes this
evening. Will the sourdough buggies maintain the integrity of the
dough after taking the mixer abuse? Time will tell.

Boron

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:26:20 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>(I am now cross-posting this to alt.bread.recipes, too)
>
>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
>>sourdough bread..
>>
>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
>>1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
>>according to them)
>>1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white
>>
>>I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
>>this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
>>before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
>>about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
>>begin with.
>>
>>I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.
>
>Day 2 - early morning
>
>The Day 1 starter was stunningly bubbly and bouncy looking this
>morning.
>
>The starter was so active, in fact, that I decided to just add the 1/2
>cup durum, 1-1/2 cups flour & 1-1/2 cups water. Nothing else. I did
>not substitute anything at all for the additional yeast the recipe
>calls for.
>
>As a side note: I usually use fresh yeast in this recipe and because
>it makes such active starters, I do not let them sit much beyond 12
>hours. Since I know my sourdough starters can retain activity for
>quite awhile with any sort of refreshment, I am hoping that this holds
>true for the cocodrillo.
>
>My concern is how this will do in the mixer for 17 minutes this
>evening. Will the sourdough buggies maintain the integrity of the
>dough after taking the mixer abuse? Time will tell.
>
>Boron

I mixed the dough an hour ago, though I used the Magic Mill, rather
than the Kenwood I usually use, as the MM was out of the cupboard &
available. I am not sure if this variable is affecting anything, but
the dough (which needed a few tablespoons more white flour then the
1.25 cups called for - not unusual when I make this), came together
beautifully and looked like silk. I do not know how else to describe
it. It had the fine sheen of a rich batter. Beautiful. How much is due
to using starter and how much to a different mixing technique, I
cannot say.

It is rising now and has already been folded over once already. It is
quite a lively concoction.

Boron

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:26:20 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>(I am now cross-posting this to alt.bread.recipes, too)
>>
>>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>
>>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
>>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
>>>sourdough bread..
>>>
>>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
>>>1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
>>>according to them)
>>>1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white
>>>
>>>I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
>>>this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
>>>before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
>>>about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
>>>begin with.
>>>
>>>I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.
>>
>>Day 2 - early morning
>>
>>The Day 1 starter was stunningly bubbly and bouncy looking this
>>morning.
>>
>>The starter was so active, in fact, that I decided to just add the 1/2
>>cup durum, 1-1/2 cups flour & 1-1/2 cups water. Nothing else. I did
>>not substitute anything at all for the additional yeast the recipe
>>calls for.
>>
>>As a side note: I usually use fresh yeast in this recipe and because
>>it makes such active starters, I do not let them sit much beyond 12
>>hours. Since I know my sourdough starters can retain activity for
>>quite awhile with any sort of refreshment, I am hoping that this holds
>>true for the cocodrillo.
>>
>>My concern is how this will do in the mixer for 17 minutes this
>>evening. Will the sourdough buggies maintain the integrity of the
>>dough after taking the mixer abuse? Time will tell.
>>
>>Boron
>
>I mixed the dough an hour ago, though I used the Magic Mill, rather
>than the Kenwood I usually use, as the MM was out of the cupboard &
>available. I am not sure if this variable is affecting anything, but
>the dough (which needed a few tablespoons more white flour then the
>1.25 cups called for - not unusual when I make this), came together
>beautifully and looked like silk. I do not know how else to describe
>it. It had the fine sheen of a rich batter. Beautiful. How much is due
>to using starter and how much to a different mixing technique, I
>cannot say.
>
>It is rising now and has already been folded over once already. It is
>quite a lively concoction.
>
>Boron

We took the loaves out of the oven about half an hour ago and one is
almost gone. The texture/crumb is not quite so wide open as some of
this bread I have made in the past, but the taste is very well
developed and extremely satisfying. The difference in texture may be
due to the starter or mixer. I will not know until I control for one
of these variables next time.

I have posted a picture on the yahoo group, for those of you who
belong, or you can see the bread, along with some others I made today
at:
http://mysite.verizon.net/glojeff1/id4.html

Boron

Your bread looks pretty darned good!!

Bill


"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:26:20 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
> >
> >>(I am now cross-posting this to alt.bread.recipes, too)
> >>
> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
> >>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
> >>>sourdough bread..
> >>>
> >>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
> >>>1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
> >>>according to them)
> >>>1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white
> >>>
> >>>I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
> >>>this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
> >>>before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
> >>>about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
> >>>begin with.
> >>>
> >>>I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.
> >>
> >>Day 2 - early morning
> >>
> >>The Day 1 starter was stunningly bubbly and bouncy looking this
> >>morning.
> >>
> >>The starter was so active, in fact, that I decided to just add the 1/2
> >>cup durum, 1-1/2 cups flour & 1-1/2 cups water. Nothing else. I did
> >>not substitute anything at all for the additional yeast the recipe
> >>calls for.
> >>
> >>As a side note: I usually use fresh yeast in this recipe and because
> >>it makes such active starters, I do not let them sit much beyond 12
> >>hours. Since I know my sourdough starters can retain activity for
> >>quite awhile with any sort of refreshment, I am hoping that this holds
> >>true for the cocodrillo.
> >>
> >>My concern is how this will do in the mixer for 17 minutes this
> >>evening. Will the sourdough buggies maintain the integrity of the
> >>dough after taking the mixer abuse? Time will tell.
> >>
> >>Boron
> >
> >I mixed the dough an hour ago, though I used the Magic Mill, rather
> >than the Kenwood I usually use, as the MM was out of the cupboard &
> >available. I am not sure if this variable is affecting anything, but
> >the dough (which needed a few tablespoons more white flour then the
> >1.25 cups called for - not unusual when I make this), came together
> >beautifully and looked like silk. I do not know how else to describe
> >it. It had the fine sheen of a rich batter. Beautiful. How much is due
> >to using starter and how much to a different mixing technique, I
> >cannot say.
> >
> >It is rising now and has already been folded over once already. It is
> >quite a lively concoction.
> >
> >Boron
>
> We took the loaves out of the oven about half an hour ago and one is
> almost gone. The texture/crumb is not quite so wide open as some of
> this bread I have made in the past, but the taste is very well
> developed and extremely satisfying. The difference in texture may be
> due to the starter or mixer. I will not know until I control for one
> of these variables next time.
>
> I have posted a picture on the yahoo group, for those of you who
> belong, or you can see the bread, along with some others I made today
> at:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/glojeff1/id4.html
>
> Boron
>
>

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
>> >>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
> >>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
> >>>sourdough bread..
> >>>
> >>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)

Superb looking bread!!! Congrats using SD with this superb bread!

Coccodrillo has a final hydration of 103%. Some maintain their SD cultures
at about 100% but isn't Carl's kept at twice that?

Graham

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:34:50 GMT, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
>>> >>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
>> >>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
>> >>>sourdough bread..
>> >>>
>> >>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
>
>Superb looking bread!!! Congrats using SD with this superb bread!
>
>Coccodrillo has a final hydration of 103%. Some maintain their SD cultures
>at about 100% but isn't Carl's kept at twice that?
>
>Graham
>

I have not looked at the instructions for Carl's in a couple of
years. I keep various hydrations of starters around, depending on what
I plan on doing with them, or if they are in a refreshment stage or
sit-in-the-back-of-the-fridge stage. My starters range anywhere from
pate fermentee to gooey slop.

The reason I used Carl's starter instead of many of my others, is that
I keep Carl's a pure, white flour & water mix. Most of my other
starters have bits of rye, whole wheat or Lord only knows what sort of
grains and left over dough bits. Carl's is my "root stock."

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:26:20 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
> >
> >>(I am now cross-posting this to alt.bread.recipes, too)
> >>
> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>In keeping with my philosophy of "Life is short and flour is cheap," I
> >>>have embarked on an experiment to turn Carol Fields Cocodrillo into a
> >>>sourdough bread..
> >>>
> >>>I cup active starter (Carl's. I do not know the hydration)
> >>>1/4 cup Hodgson Mills semolina pasta flour (semolina + durum,
> >>>according to them)
> >>>1/2 cup Hecker's unbleached white
> >>>
> >>>I added water until I achieved the consistency the first starter in
> >>>this recipe usually has. For those of you who have not made the recipe
> >>>before, I apologize. In my case, I started with 1/2 cup and then added
> >>>about 1/3 more. This will depend wholly on the starter hydration you
> >>>begin with.
> >>>
> >>>I will report back tomorrow on the second phase.
> >>
> >>Day 2 - early morning
> >>
> >>The Day 1 starter was stunningly bubbly and bouncy looking this
> >>morning.
> >>
> >>The starter was so active, in fact, that I decided to just add the 1/2
> >>cup durum, 1-1/2 cups flour & 1-1/2 cups water. Nothing else. I did
> >>not substitute anything at all for the additional yeast the recipe
> >>calls for.
> >>
> >>As a side note: I usually use fresh yeast in this recipe and because
> >>it makes such active starters, I do not let them sit much beyond 12
> >>hours. Since I know my sourdough starters can retain activity for
> >>quite awhile with any sort of refreshment, I am hoping that this holds
> >>true for the cocodrillo.
> >>
> >>My concern is how this will do in the mixer for 17 minutes this
> >>evening. Will the sourdough buggies maintain the integrity of the
> >>dough after taking the mixer abuse? Time will tell.
> >>
> >>Boron
> >
> >I mixed the dough an hour ago, though I used the Magic Mill, rather
> >than the Kenwood I usually use, as the MM was out of the cupboard &
> >available. I am not sure if this variable is affecting anything, but
> >the dough (which needed a few tablespoons more white flour then the
> >1.25 cups called for - not unusual when I make this), came together
> >beautifully and looked like silk. I do not know how else to describe
> >it. It had the fine sheen of a rich batter. Beautiful. How much is due
> >to using starter and how much to a different mixing technique, I
> >cannot say.
> >
> >It is rising now and has already been folded over once already. It is
> >quite a lively concoction.
> >
> >Boron
>
> We took the loaves out of the oven about half an hour ago and one is
> almost gone. The texture/crumb is not quite so wide open as some of
> this bread I have made in the past, but the taste is very well
> developed and extremely satisfying. The difference in texture may be
> due to the starter or mixer. I will not know until I control for one
> of these variables next time.
>
> I have posted a picture on the yahoo group, for those of you who
> belong, or you can see the bread, along with some others I made today
> at:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/glojeff1/id4.html
>
> Boron
>
>

Hello, I saw your beautiful breads, did you bake these all in one day??
EGADS!
I am interested in your sentence,
"In the center is the sourdough Coccodrillo, with a slice from the SECOND
loaf just beneath."
Does this mean that the slice is from the Crocodillo bread? oR does this
mean that you made two crocodillo breads?

Boron, due to weather, what would be the best time to send off for Carl's
starter. This is such a scary adventure to begin for me.
Thanks,
Dee

Yes that is nice bread. I've been afraid to ask what a coccodrillo is. I
still don't know. It sounds like ciabatta made with a blend of flours and high
hydration. I googled coccodrillo but it turned up a bunch of brazillian links
I feared were x-rated coccodrillo sites.

What is a coccodrillo?
Did you use steam?

Ed

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:27:36 -0500, "Dee Randall"
<deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar

>> I have posted a picture on the yahoo group, for those of you who
>> belong, or you can see the bread, along with some others I made today
>> at:
>> http://mysite.verizon.net/glojeff1/id4.html
>>
>> Boron
>>
>>
>
>Hello, I saw your beautiful breads, did you bake these all in one day??
>EGADS!

All baked in one day, Saturday, though the starter for the Coccodrillo
was begun Friday. The doughs for the other breads were made together
in one 11-12 cup recipe & I varied them in form and content as the day
went on. If the kitchen has to be hosed down, might as well make it
after a lot of bread has been made.

>I am interested in your sentence,
>"In the center is the sourdough Coccodrillo, with a slice from the SECOND
>loaf just beneath."
>Does this mean that the slice is from the Crocodillo bread? oR does this
>mean that you made two crocodillo breads?

The recipe in Fields' book makes 2 loaves. One was gone almost
immediately & I was hard pressed to preserve a slice long enough to
take a photo
>
>Boron, due to weather, what would be the best time to send off for Carl's
>starter. This is such a scary adventure to begin for me.

Carl's is shipped dry. No weather concerns at all. Frankly, cold
weather would be less of a concern than warm if it were shipped wet,
anyway.

There are wonderful volunteers who create and distribute goodie-bags
of Carl's all year round. Santa is envious of the diligence and
devotion of the Carl elves.

Boron

On 26 Jan 2004 14:34:55 GMT, ojunk (Ed Bechtel)
wrote:

>Yes that is nice bread. I've been afraid to ask what a coccodrillo is. I
>still don't know. It sounds like ciabatta made with a blend of flours and high
>hydration. I googled coccodrillo but it turned up a bunch of brazillian links
>I feared were x-rated coccodrillo sites.
>
>What is a coccodrillo?
>Did you use steam?
>
>Ed


I is a recipe from Carol Field's book, "The Italian Baker."

Graham posted the full recipe on 11-30-03 under a thread titled
"Coccodrillo recipe." You can google for it and get not just the
recipe, but comments from posters here. There were several threads
that ran then about this bread and if you google by date, you will get
a lot of chatter about the bread.

I have just about given up with ice cubes and pans of water. I have
finally admitted that I get the best crust in my own oven by taking a
spray bottle & spraying both dough and oven immediately when I put the
bread in and at 3-4 minute intervals for the first 10 minutes. YMMV. I
get a shiny, blistery crust this way, which I was not getting
consistently with pans of water or ice.

Boron

"Ed Bechtel" > wrote in message =
...

> What is a coccodrillo?

While we're on that, how about crocodillo?

Hey, make mine a slice of crocodillo on a coccodrillo bun!

What shall we wash that down with? Tequila, maybe?

Methanol?

--
DickA

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On 26 Jan 2004 14:34:55 GMT, ojunk (Ed Bechtel)
> wrote:
>> I have just about given up with ice cubes and pans of water. I have
> finally admitted that I get the best crust in my own oven by taking a
> spray bottle & spraying both dough and oven immediately when I put the
> bread in and at 3-4 minute intervals for the first 10 minutes. YMMV. I
> get a shiny, blistery crust this way, which I was not getting
> consistently with pans of water or ice.

I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've always
thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so cold?
Graham

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:25:38 GMT, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 26 Jan 2004 14:34:55 GMT, ojunk (Ed Bechtel)
>> wrote:
>>> I have just about given up with ice cubes and pans of water. I have
>> finally admitted that I get the best crust in my own oven by taking a
>> spray bottle & spraying both dough and oven immediately when I put the
>> bread in and at 3-4 minute intervals for the first 10 minutes. YMMV. I
>> get a shiny, blistery crust this way, which I was not getting
>> consistently with pans of water or ice.
>
>I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've always
>thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so cold?
>Graham


Jumping back from the steam generated when tossing in an ice cube is
often the only exercise a bread baker gets.

Boron

graham wrote:

> I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've always
> thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so cold?

Because they take longer to melt and turn into steam and I don't have to
run back to the oven every couple minutes. And the drip seems to clear
some of the grease from the underside of the oven, all I need to do is
spread some newspapers under the stove.

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> graham wrote:
>
> > I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've always
> > thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so
cold?
>
> Because they take longer to melt and turn into steam and I don't have to
> run back to the oven every couple minutes.

A cup of boiling water in a pan on the oven floor lasts a good 20 minutes
depending on your baking temperature. Ice-cubes take a good deal of heat to
melt and heat up to boiling.
Graham

graham wrote:
>
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > graham wrote:
> >
> > > I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've always
> > > thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so
> cold?
> >
> > Because they take longer to melt and turn into steam and I don't have to
> > run back to the oven every couple minutes.
>
> A cup of boiling water in a pan on the oven floor lasts a good 20 minutes
> depending on your baking temperature. Ice-cubes take a good deal of heat to
> melt and heat up to boiling.

Yes, they do. And if you have the heat mass of a cast-iron stove,
there's no need to worry about it.

B/

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:27:36 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:51 -0500, Boron Elgar
>
> >> I have posted a picture on the yahoo group, for those of you who
> >> belong, or you can see the bread, along with some others I made today
> >> at:
> >> http://mysite.verizon.net/glojeff1/id4.html
> >>
> >> Boron
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Hello, I saw your beautiful breads, did you bake these all in one day??
> >EGADS!
>
> All baked in one day, Saturday, though the starter for the Coccodrillo
> was begun Friday. The doughs for the other breads were made together
> in one 11-12 cup recipe & I varied them in form and content as the day
> went on. If the kitchen has to be hosed down, might as well make it
> after a lot of bread has been made.
>
> >I am interested in your sentence,
> >"In the center is the sourdough Coccodrillo, with a slice from the SECOND
> >loaf just beneath."
> >Does this mean that the slice is from the Crocodillo bread? oR does this
> >mean that you made two crocodillo breads?
>
> The recipe in Fields' book makes 2 loaves. One was gone almost
> immediately & I was hard pressed to preserve a slice long enough to
> take a photo
> >
> >Boron, due to weather, what would be the best time to send off for Carl's
> >starter. This is such a scary adventure to begin for me.
>
> Carl's is shipped dry. No weather concerns at all. Frankly, cold
> weather would be less of a concern than warm if it were shipped wet,
> anyway.
>
> There are wonderful volunteers who create and distribute goodie-bags
> of Carl's all year round. Santa is envious of the diligence and
> devotion of the Carl elves.
>
> Boron

Thanks Boron, I have my envelope ready to go, but it will be a week before
I'll get out of my driveway to the mailbox. Our snow is about this amount
http://www.user.shentel.net/jar02/To...w%202-7-03.htm
Hope others are enjoying their weather.
Dee

"graham" > wrote in message
news:2fkRb.298615$ts4.283838@pd7tw3no...
>
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > graham wrote:
> >
> > > I use a pan of boiling water as well as the odd spritzing. I've
always
> > > thought that using ice-cubes doesn't make sense. Why use something so
> cold?
> >
> > Because they take longer to melt and turn into steam and I don't have to
> > run back to the oven every couple minutes.
>
> A cup of boiling water in a pan on the oven floor lasts a good 20 minutes
> depending on your baking temperature. Ice-cubes take a good deal of heat
to
> melt and heat up to boiling.
> Graham


I thought that the bread only needed about 15 minutes of steaming, and that
can be done with the spritzing.

I have done both:
1) spritz immediately, then at 5 minutes, then at 10 minutes, then at 15
minutes
or
2)leave a pan of "already " boiling water in my oven for the duration of the
bread baking.
Sometimes It boils dry is the reason I use a cast iron -- yes it is rusty of
late!

I don't think I've done both on the same bread. Maybe I should, I don't
know.

I would think that the ice water would keep the steam going for the whole
bread-making time, but is that REALLY necessary? I don't know -- maybe
someone has definite opinions about that.

The hint of leaving the door open the last 5 minutes to get a thick crust ,
I have not tried because I don't prefer a thick crust -- my real teeth at my
age are a precious commodity.
I save these teeth for biscotti/wine.

However, when I do think of thick crust, I recall that on one Cuban bread I
made years ago was very thick, but NOT crackly, just plain thick. Good, but
not exactly pleasant to bite thru.

Dee

"Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
...
>
SNIP
>> > > Because they (ice-cubes)take longer to melt and turn into steam and I
don't have to
> > > run back to the oven every couple minutes.
> >
SNIP
> > A cup of boiling water in a pan on the oven floor lasts a good 20
minutes
> > depending on your baking temperature. Ice-cubes take a good deal of
heat
> to
> > melt and heat up to boiling.
> > Graham
>
SNIP
> I thought that the bread only needed about 15 minutes of steaming, and
that
> can be done with the spritzing.
> I would think that the ice water would keep the steam going for the whole
> bread-making time, but is that REALLY necessary? I don't know -- maybe
> someone has definite opinions about that.
>

My point was and is: What sense is there in heating up the oven and then
putting in ice-cubes? "Saving time" is a pointless argument since the
amount of boiling water can be adjusted to last as long as you want.
Graham

"graham" > wrote in message
news:PydSb.329186$X%5.65523@pd7tw2no...
>
> "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
> ...
> >
> SNIP
> >> > > Because they (ice-cubes)take longer to melt and turn into steam and
I
> don't have to
> > > > run back to the oven every couple minutes.
> > >
> SNIP
> > > A cup of boiling water in a pan on the oven floor lasts a good 20
> minutes
> > > depending on your baking temperature. Ice-cubes take a good deal of
> heat
> > to
> > > melt and heat up to boiling.
> > > Graham
> >
> SNIP
> > I thought that the bread only needed about 15 minutes of steaming, and
> that
> > can be done with the spritzing.
> > I would think that the ice water would keep the steam going for the
whole
> > bread-making time, but is that REALLY necessary? I don't know -- maybe
> > someone has definite opinions about that.
> >
>
> My point was and is: What sense is there in heating up the oven and then
> putting in ice-cubes? "Saving time" is a pointless argument since the
> amount of boiling water can be adjusted to last as long as you want.
> Graham


Of course, Graham, I agree with your point. I guess I got too wordy, adding
off topic questions. Really, one must keep it short and to the point to be
understood. Sorry.
Dee