Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 04-08-2004, 02:11 AM
amateur
 
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Default Soudough in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough

Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...

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Old 04-08-2004, 04:22 AM
Samartha
 
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Default Soudough in wikipedia



At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents are
pentosans which are sugars and not starches. Main reason for lowering pH
with rye is suppressing alpha-amylase enzyme activity which liquifies
starch and makes the bread flow away.

Also that yeast as leavening agent is useless with rye is incorrect - works
fine, just does not sour it and tastes flat, see the

http://samartha.net/SD/tests/baking/

There is mo

"Sourdough bread has a very distinctive taste, due mainly to the lactic
acid produced by the lactobacilli."

Mainly from acidity? This is probably a procedure and taste preference. How
about sugars, alcohols and other fermentation products - amino acids, enzymes?

On the above referenced test, the bread make with yeast and lactic acid was
totally bland and not worth eating, so acid and yeast alone don't do the
trick either.

The assumption that lactic acid is the determining factor is incorrect as
well. A large determining factor for taste in the literature appears to be
the acetic acid in the right proportion.

"The yeast and bacteria in the culture will cause a wheat based dough ...
to leaven or rise."

1/2 the truth - rye based doughs rise very well.

"In a typical wheat flour dough the rise is approximately 50% due to the
yeast and 50% due to the lactobacteria."

True in cases where LB's involved are heterofermentative - either obligat
or facultative and in the right environment. To make a general statement
like this is incorrect.

Samartha

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Old 04-08-2004, 04:22 AM
Samartha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia



At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents are
pentosans which are sugars and not starches. Main reason for lowering pH
with rye is suppressing alpha-amylase enzyme activity which liquifies
starch and makes the bread flow away.

Also that yeast as leavening agent is useless with rye is incorrect - works
fine, just does not sour it and tastes flat, see the

http://samartha.net/SD/tests/baking/

There is mo

"Sourdough bread has a very distinctive taste, due mainly to the lactic
acid produced by the lactobacilli."

Mainly from acidity? This is probably a procedure and taste preference. How
about sugars, alcohols and other fermentation products - amino acids, enzymes?

On the above referenced test, the bread make with yeast and lactic acid was
totally bland and not worth eating, so acid and yeast alone don't do the
trick either.

The assumption that lactic acid is the determining factor is incorrect as
well. A large determining factor for taste in the literature appears to be
the acetic acid in the right proportion.

"The yeast and bacteria in the culture will cause a wheat based dough ...
to leaven or rise."

1/2 the truth - rye based doughs rise very well.

"In a typical wheat flour dough the rise is approximately 50% due to the
yeast and 50% due to the lactobacteria."

True in cases where LB's involved are heterofermentative - either obligat
or facultative and in the right environment. To make a general statement
like this is incorrect.

Samartha

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Old 04-08-2004, 05:56 PM
Hans Fugal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia

Sounds like you could make a few contributions to the wiki. That's the
point of it, after all.

Samartha wrote:


At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents
are pentosans which are sugars and not starches. Main reason for
lowering pH with rye is suppressing alpha-amylase enzyme activity which
liquifies starch and makes the bread flow away.

Also that yeast as leavening agent is useless with rye is incorrect -
works fine, just does not sour it and tastes flat, see the

http://samartha.net/SD/tests/baking/

There is mo

"Sourdough bread has a very distinctive taste, due mainly to the lactic
acid produced by the lactobacilli."

Mainly from acidity? This is probably a procedure and taste preference.
How about sugars, alcohols and other fermentation products - amino
acids, enzymes?

On the above referenced test, the bread make with yeast and lactic acid
was totally bland and not worth eating, so acid and yeast alone don't do
the trick either.

The assumption that lactic acid is the determining factor is incorrect
as well. A large determining factor for taste in the literature appears
to be the acetic acid in the right proportion.

"The yeast and bacteria in the culture will cause a wheat based dough
... to leaven or rise."

1/2 the truth - rye based doughs rise very well.

"In a typical wheat flour dough the rise is approximately 50% due to the
yeast and 50% due to the lactobacteria."

True in cases where LB's involved are heterofermentative - either
obligat or facultative and in the right environment. To make a general
statement like this is incorrect.

Samartha

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Old 04-08-2004, 05:56 PM
Hans Fugal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia

Sounds like you could make a few contributions to the wiki. That's the
point of it, after all.

Samartha wrote:


At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents
are pentosans which are sugars and not starches. Main reason for
lowering pH with rye is suppressing alpha-amylase enzyme activity which
liquifies starch and makes the bread flow away.

Also that yeast as leavening agent is useless with rye is incorrect -
works fine, just does not sour it and tastes flat, see the

http://samartha.net/SD/tests/baking/

There is mo

"Sourdough bread has a very distinctive taste, due mainly to the lactic
acid produced by the lactobacilli."

Mainly from acidity? This is probably a procedure and taste preference.
How about sugars, alcohols and other fermentation products - amino
acids, enzymes?

On the above referenced test, the bread make with yeast and lactic acid
was totally bland and not worth eating, so acid and yeast alone don't do
the trick either.

The assumption that lactic acid is the determining factor is incorrect
as well. A large determining factor for taste in the literature appears
to be the acetic acid in the right proportion.

"The yeast and bacteria in the culture will cause a wheat based dough
... to leaven or rise."

1/2 the truth - rye based doughs rise very well.

"In a typical wheat flour dough the rise is approximately 50% due to the
yeast and 50% due to the lactobacteria."

True in cases where LB's involved are heterofermentative - either
obligat or facultative and in the right environment. To make a general
statement like this is incorrect.

Samartha



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Old 05-08-2004, 05:22 AM
Samartha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia

At 10:56 AM 8/4/2004, Hans Fugal wrote:
Sounds like you could make a few contributions to the wiki. That's the
point of it, after all.


I intentionally refrained from that because it would have been a dispute or
a censorship and that's not what the wikipedia Enclyzobedia is about -
definitely not a discussion forum - and since it would not have been a
contribution, chances are that it would have been thrown out. Or - I write
something and DA comes along and "corrects" it so that sourdough is
actually not sour, just for the fun of it.

If you got energy for it, go for it, I don't.

Samartha




remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-08-2004, 03:53 PM
Dick Adams
 
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Default Soudough in wikipedia


"Samartha" wrote in message=20
news:[email protected] w.mountainbitwarrior.co=
m...

... I write something and DA comes along and "corrects" it so=20
that sourdough is actually not sour, just for the fun of it ...


Would I quarrel?

One may sour their stuff for months and eat it right out
of the crock, just for the fun of it, for all I care!

---
DA




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Old 05-08-2004, 03:53 PM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia


"Samartha" wrote in message=20
news:[email protected] w.mountainbitwarrior.co=
m...

... I write something and DA comes along and "corrects" it so=20
that sourdough is actually not sour, just for the fun of it ...


Would I quarrel?

One may sour their stuff for months and eat it right out
of the crock, just for the fun of it, for all I care!

---
DA




  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2004, 02:56 PM
David Feuer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia

Samartha wrote:

At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents
are pentosans which are sugars and not starches.


So fix it. That's the nice thing about Wikipedia. Someone like you can
fix everyone else's mistakes.

David
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2004, 02:56 PM
David Feuer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Soudough in wikipedia

Samartha wrote:

At 07:11 PM 8/3/2004, amateur wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough


Seems quite accurate. A bit sparse maybe ...


If it would be only that - quite inaccurate with rye - gluing agents
are pentosans which are sugars and not starches.


So fix it. That's the nice thing about Wikipedia. Someone like you can
fix everyone else's mistakes.

David


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