I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
"starters" that can be boughten and simply placed in the pan with the
other ingredients? I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my
back making it though!

"Leroy Taylor" > wrote in message
om...

> I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
> make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
> "starters" that can be boughten and simply placed in the pan with the
> other ingredients?

No doubt there are flavorings for use with regular yeast, but the usual
way to get these is in premixes, as from Krusteaz, Eagle Mills, etc.
Those brands have a web site. Googling may bring up other sources.
Those mixes don't make anything appropriate for discussion at r.f.s.

There has been some discussion of authentic sourdough from bread
machines, but it is generally considered that bread machines are
extremely inconvenient for that.

There is a book about sourdough from bread machines by Donna
German and Ed Wood. I understand the latter author has disowned
that book, however.

www.kingarthurflour.com offers a flavoring called something like
"sourdough enhancer".

> I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my back making
> it though!

Your best bet is to find a store that sells it.

--
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 06:26:19 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
wrote:

>"Leroy Taylor" > wrote in message
. com...

>> I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
>> make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
>> "starters" that can be bought and simply placed in the pan with the
>> other ingredients?

1. Make your own from *freshly milled organic whole wheat flour* which
you can obtain from a flour bin at Whole Foods Market. Do not use
packaged flour. Be sure to ask an employee about the turnover of the
flour in the bin. If it has a week or less turnover, then it should be
fresh enough to activate on its own.

2. Buy Mr. Bakers San Francsico sourdough (SF SD) starter from Yankee
Grocery.

3. King Arthur Flour has a French SF SD starter that tastes the same
as Mr. Bakers. It is available online (shipping is free and they throw
in a package of scone mix free):

1040 LA-4 French Sourdough Starter $6.95

4. Carl's starter. Ask Adams about that.

>There is a book about sourdough from bread machines by Donna
>German and Ed Wood. I understand the latter author has disowned
>that book, however.

Ed Wood wrote a book called "Classic Sourdoughs" in which he devotes a
part of his book towards the end teaching you how to make bread
machine sourdough. He did not disown that, at least not to my
knowledge.

However, why use a bread machine in the first place. I have never had
any success with the bloody things even with commercial yeast breads.
I use mine solely to knead the dough. It is not that much trouble to
bake bread in an oven, and that includes sourdough. If you want to
control the texture of the crumb, you must bake it yourself.

>> I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my back making
>> it though!

No need to. Most of the time is spent letting the dough rise slowly,
and that is not considered back breaking.

Stick around here for a while and you will discover that making
sourdough is not that difficult. The problem is that there is so much
disinformation that you have to spend a lot of time initially
experimenting to figure out what works for you.

But once you get the hang of it, you will find that making sourdough
is almost as easy as making bread from commercial yeast. In a short
while I will post some material on how to make a sourdough loaf that
is so easy you won't believe it is authentic sourdough. But it is as
the pictures I hope to get my daughter to scan will attest to.

[My wife still won't scan my bread, claiming it will dirty up her
precious scanner. I offered to wrap it in saran wrap, but she doesn't
want any part of it. So I will ask my daughter to do it.]

>Your best bet is to find a store that sells it.

Why discourage a newcomer like that, you Ol' Grouch. <jeez>

That crap they sell in the regular grocery stores isn't worth feeding
to pigeons. You have to go to an artisan bakery (eg, Whole Foods
Market) and then the product is variable at best.

The only way to get quality sourdough is to make it yourself. Once you
master it, it will be the only bread you ever make.

Leroy Taylor wrote:
>
> I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
> make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
> "starters" that can be boughten and simply placed in the pan with the
> other ingredients? I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my
> back making it though!

Yes, King Arthur sells these envelopes of dry "starter" that can be used
instead of starter. They are called "LA-2 Pain de Campaigne" and "LA-4 French
Sourdough Starter" which can be used instead of yeast. Use a plain white bread
recipe, flour, water, salt only. You may have to modify the recipe a little
bit. You can probably do it in one or two tries.

These envelopes contain a mix of dry yeast plus lactobacillus spores.

It is not quite the same, most ABMs have a fairly short rise time and the
flavor may not develop fully. YMMV.

Bert

In article >,
wrote:

> Leroy Taylor wrote:
> >
> > I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
> > make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
> > "starters" that can be boughten and simply placed in the pan with the
> > other ingredients? I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my
> > back making it though!
>
> Yes, King Arthur sells these envelopes of dry "starter" that can be used
> instead of starter. They are called "LA-2 Pain de Campaigne" and "LA-4 French
> Sourdough Starter" which can be used instead of yeast. Use a plain white bread
> recipe, flour, water, salt only. You may have to modify the recipe a little
> bit. You can probably do it in one or two tries.

Umm, no. My instructions for these starters state that you must first
make a sponge with a portion of the envelope, then use the sponge to
later make bread. Hardly just dropping the stuff in a bread maker and
pushing the button.

There are, however, sourdough bread mixes for bread machines available
from both King Arthur and Krustez brand. I don't know how they taste in
relation to the real thing though.

marcella

"Leroy Taylor" > wrote in message
om...

> [ ... ] I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my
> back making it though!

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

> [ ... ] Your best bet is to find a store that sells it.

"Bob" > wrote in message
...

.. [ ... ]

> The only way to get quality sourdough is to make it yourself. Once you
> master it, it will be the only bread you ever make.

> wrote in message
...

> [ ... ]

> You can probably do it in one or two tries...

"Marcella Tracy Peek" > wrote in message
...

> [ ... ]

> My instructions for these starters state that you must first
> make a sponge, ... , then use the sponge to later make bread.
> Hardly just dropping the stuff in a bread maker and pushing
> the button.

I think what Leroy was saying was that he did not want to do
sourdough if it is difficult to do. Probably he is gone by now.
Anyway, it is a bread-machine issue, generally off-topic at r.f.s.
Leroy identified with firstname and lastname, has apparently a
valid email address, and phrased his inquiry with adequate
erudition and humility (no fake-ID, one-name, dumb-question
nOObie there). Therefore I felt he deserved our respect,
so I replied to his post politely and expansively, and, I thought,
quite wrongly it appears, conclusively.

But "Baking sourdough bread" does seem to be a timely issue,
so maybe we can go somewhere with this thread if we can
forget about bread machines, Krusteaz, KA mixes, etc., not
to mention the tribulations of persons who do not want to try
very hard.

I think that Mr. Perry, for instance, mentioned quite recently
that he has had, from time to time, in the past, at least, an
interest in baking sourdough bread (presumably in an oven).

---
DickA

Marcella Tracy Peek wrote:
>
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > Leroy Taylor wrote:
> > >
> > > I've read some of the facts here and am wondering if it is possible to
> > > make sourdough totally in a bread machine? Are there ready made
> > > "starters" that can be boughten and simply placed in the pan with the
> > > other ingredients? I really love sourdough! I am not going to break my
> > > back making it though!
> >
> > Yes, King Arthur sells these envelopes of dry "starter" that can be used
> > instead of starter. They are called "LA-2 Pain de Campaigne" and "LA-4 French
> > Sourdough Starter" which can be used instead of yeast. Use a plain white bread
> > recipe, flour, water, salt only. You may have to modify the recipe a little
> > bit. You can probably do it in one or two tries.
>
> Umm, no. My instructions for these starters state that you must first
> make a sponge with a portion of the envelope, then use the sponge to
> later make bread. Hardly just dropping the stuff in a bread maker and
> pushing the button.
>
> There are, however, sourdough bread mixes for bread machines available
> from both King Arthur and Krustez brand. I don't know how they taste in
> relation to the real thing though.
>
> marcella

OK, that is more than "may have to modify the recipe a little bit". It may not
work exactly the way I described it. And then again, it may.

:-)

Bert