Hi all,

I have been asked to organize a baking competition for a one day
festival to be held in Brixton, London in September.

Since I have no experience of such competition, and the most familiar
thing in England is village fair cake bake thing, which is not what we
are aiming for, would welcome any pointers from those with experience.
How are these things normally run, what classes are typical etc?

Provisionally considering dividing into professional and amateur with
possibly the pros judging the amateurs and vice versa. I guess
amateurs would produce one loaf each whereas maybe professionals had
to produce 3 loaves for any class they entered?

So far my thoughts on classes are
1) sourdough
2) speciality bread
3) wholemeal (or 50%+ wholemeal?)
3) something else straight commercial yeast - bloomer?
4) cakes
5) pastries.

I have got in touch with the 'artisinal' baker next to the park which
will be venue and he's interested and should be going to visit him
next week to discuss more - but would be nice to do that with some
more info and ideas than I have currently

laters
andy forbes

researching the subject of 'baking competitions' when I came across
this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakitate!!_Japan

top weirdness, surely Japanese hardly eat bread anyway

top points to anyone who can find any other comic series specifically
about baking ever anywhere

laters
andy forbes

"atty" > wrote in message ups.com...

> So far my thoughts on classes are
> 1) sourdough
> 2) speciality bread
> 3) wholemeal (or 50%+ wholemeal?)
> 3) something else straight commercial yeast - bloomer?
> 4) cakes
> 5) pastries.

How about lawn ornaments and doggie jokes?

> I have got in touch with the 'artisinal' baker next to the park ...

Artis-anal!

--
Dicky again

atty wrote:
> Provisionally considering dividing into professional and amateur with
> possibly the pros judging the amateurs and vice versa. I guess
> amateurs would produce one loaf each whereas maybe professionals had
> to produce 3 loaves for any class they entered?
>
For reasons that will become obvious in a bit, I'd ask for 3 loaves of
bread, or 3 sets of entries of pastries, sufficient to give each judge
one. So, if you have two judges, they would need to enter 6 pastries.
> So far my thoughts on classes are
> 1) sourdough
> 2) speciality bread
> 3) wholemeal (or 50%+ wholemeal?)
> 3) something else straight commercial yeast - bloomer?
> 4) cakes
> 5) pastries.
>
>
Too few categories, and too broad.

What's sourdough? Before 1880 or so, just about any bread you could buy
was sourdough or levain raised. The use of bakers lees was somewhat
common in England, but no where else. So, any bread raised with
sourdough is sourdough. And that covers a lot of territory.

What's a specialty bread? I make a 100% whole wheat sourdough bread
that is a specialty of the bakery.

Given recent trends to making all sorts of breads with whole grains,
should that be a separate category? Perhaps for traditional whole grain
breads in a larger, national, category.

I think more categories would be a good idea. And having classes based
on the nation of origin of the bread might help.

French breads
Baguettes
country breads

German breads
Rye breads
Pumpernickel
White breads
Whole wheat breads
Seeded breads
Farmers breads

Italian breads
Pannetone
Italian country breads

English breads
(Sorry, I'm ignorant, I have no idea what to put under this class,
but if the contest is in England, you should include traditional English
breads)

Flavored breads (or flavoured breads)
Herbed breads
Olive breads
Raisin breads
Pepper breads

Cakes

Pastries
Croissant
Danish pastries
Napoleons

Each of the groups could have more classes added to it, as more bakers entered more things. The model here is that of a dog show.

Start with best in category. Such as best Pastry/Croissant. All the best of category products would compete for best in class. So a croissant, danish, Napoleon or whatever would become best pastry. And that pastry would then compete for best of show.

How does one compare a croissant with a loaf of German Bauernbrot? You start by having guidelines written up as to what the judges are looking for in each product. Just as in the dog show, now one is saying that a Poodle is a better dog than a Spitz, but instead saying, "Considering the standards for Poodles and Spitzs, this poodle is a better poodle than this Spitz is a Spitz." So, the question is not, "is a Croissant better than a Baurenbrot?" but "Is this a more perfect Croissant, or this a more perfect Baurenbrot?"

The same model is also used in beer competitions in the USA. Not sure what sort of model is used in beer competitions in the UK, but that might be a good place to start looking.

There is a good chance of rancor no matter what you do, but having written guidelines for each type of bread, and distributing them before the competition will reduce the rancor. You might also announce that for the first few years the guidelines will be open for revision - AFTER the year's competition.

I just looked at google for bread judging guidelines, and as a lot they are pretty pathetic. Some insist that ALL breads have a crust between 2 and 3mm thick, and that it be crisp. For a number of breads, that is not appropriate. And they also insist that the breads be delivered in plastic bags, which makes the crisp part problematical at best.

Good luck,
Mike






--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
At a quiz
Pa ain't
No whiz
But he knows how
To keep Ma his
Burma-Shave

On May 13, 4:31 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:

thanks for the help Mike

unfortunately not only will this be the first edition of this bakery
competition but also the first edition of the 'Urban Green Fair' that
it will be part of (though the event has antecedents at the venue) so
the best I expect in way of resources will be a tent space and some
tables. I appreciate your list is the proper thing to do, but in
reality at least for this first edition I guess my real question would
be how to narrow down your list to something very simple to get the
ball rolling. I think maybe 7 classes would be maximum. So for
instance 'sourdough' could be a loaf of any style of bread made with a
sourdough starter. Of course there must be some rules such as no
packet mixes, description of method and recipe provided etc but not
sure we can start writing class descriptions etc since there is really
so little background of other comparable baking events in UK.

Since the event will be on Sunday (if it happens at all and that is
still under negotiation with the local government council) and most UK
bakers don't bake on a Sunday I think its going to be pretty up hill
to get them involved, I think have to let them present whatever they
want to present so again rules can't be too tight. But of course I
will take advice from the ARTISANAL baker I am going to meet with.

>
> I just looked at google for bread judging guidelines, and as a lot they are pretty pathetic. Some insist that ALL breads have a crust between 2 and 3mm thick, and that it be crisp. For a number of breads, that is not appropriate. And they also insist that the breads be delivered in plastic bags, which makes the crisp part problematical at best.

Indeed!

yours
andy

> Good luck,
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
> part time baker ICQ 16241692
> networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
> wordsmith
>
> Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
> At a quiz
> Pa ain't
> No whiz
> But he knows how
> To keep Ma his
> Burma-Shave

> I think maybe 7 classes would be maximum.

Hi mike et al,

my reply was hasty as I had to go out

for purposes of what I am looking at I think I have to start with what
you referred to as 'categories' and what dog shows apparently refer to
as 'groups' for instance Crufts UK has "seven Groups: Toys, Gundogs,
Utility, Hounds, Working, Pastoral, and Terriers".

I am not at all sure dividing up these groups/categories by
nationality is at all a good idea. In London we have every corner shop
selling Milton-Keynes process croissant, pain au choclat and baguettes
(par-baked in France), a leading supermarket chain, Sainsburys,
selling all sorts of out of packet things under La Brea brand but very
little that one could honourably identify as English style. Of course
there are out of London regional traditional baked goods, mostly for
the 'tea' meal, such as breadcakes and teacakes from Yorkshire but
they are unheard of in London, also honourable griddle baking
tradition for the UK as a whole such as Scotch pancakes and crumpets
but again local London bakers don't produce these let alone amateurs -
though they are available in supermarkets. I am not sure there are any
truly Italian bakers in London, though many imitations, particularly
ciabatta, and only 2 German bakers (with very few imitators other than
imported pumpernickel in supermarkets). On the other hand in my
particular area of London there are quite a few Portuguese bakers
whose typical signature product is the sweet baked custard tart in a
crunchy leafed pastry shell and many West Indian bakers. West Indian
bread bakery is basically a variation on soda bread, with even white
bread sweetened, to me totally unappealing. The West Indies baked
product that is most universally recognised and eaten is the Jamaican
patty which is similar shape to Cornish pasty in design but contents
are heavily spiced and chillied with a shell that is a layered/leaf
pastry with turmeric added - normally a selection of lamb, chicken,
veg or salt fish filling.

So what to do? I have thought about having for my event specific West
Indian bread category, as otherwise they won't fall inside any
category but as a whole I favour 'categories' (which I termed
'classes') based on fundamental ingredients. Thus 'sourdough' was
different styles using non-commercial yeast, 'wholemeal' was a
predominantly or 100% wholemeal bread (which I guess could be
sourdough also?), by 'speciality' I meant what you (Mike) termed
'flavoured', in a UK context maybe covering any bread substantially
using a grain other than wheat but more broadly a bread flavoured in
such a way that you would only eat it on special occasions (e.g. onion
and walnut), not daily as a staple (or to put it another way, a bread
style which was only produced by a particular baker that you
occasionally went out of your way to get)

For the purposes of my initial event, given limited resources and
probably limited entries (5 pro and 20 amateur would be a good start)
I think we just run entries into categories, people can say what style
within category they are aiming for if they want.

But more discussion on what categories would be very welcome

If you categorize 'styles' by nationality surely it's a given that the
best (whether its represented at a particular event or not) is going
to be from that country? If on the other hand you ask what specific
significant ingredient is treated in the most appealing way at a given
event that is more interesting and more open. But what ingredients are
'significant'?

My amended list of 'categories' I think would currently be

1) Sourdough risen
2) commercial yeast risen
3) non-yeast risen
4) flat bread (particularly relevant in London with chapattis, naan,
tortillas)
5) wholemeal
6) significantly non-wheat grain
7) significantly non-grain/salt flavoured bread
8) enriched dough (added sugar/milk/egg)
9) cakes
10) pastries

I don't see this as category system where a given loaf must have a
single category it falls into without question - its up to baker what
he wants to choose - maybe styles can belong to more than one
category?

yours
andy forbes

ps
http://www.bbga.org/teamusa.html
the top cup it seems is awarded simply on the production of 50
baguettes

ps+

venue here
http://wikimapia.org/#y=51450277&x=-...15&l=0&m=a&v=2

my oven here
http://wikimapia.org/#y=51444061&x=-...19&l=0&m=a&v=2

what some would regard as the UK's premier food awards 'The great
taste awards' from here http://www.finefoodworld.co.uk/ in fact divide
their bread categories into White, Brown and Savoury, the contestants
then state what style or recipe loaf they have entered

check out items 31a, 31b and 31c for 2006 awards here
http://www.finefoodworld.co.uk/ffwawards.asp?AwardID=45

rather symptomatic of British priorities that biscuits by contrast
have 14 categories for this award and cakes 12

yours
Andy Forbes

> their bread categories into White, Brown and Savoury, the contestants

for 2007 they have added a 'Bake-off (from chilled or frozen)'
category - which hardly seems to me likely to encourage the small
independent baker.

yours
Andy Forbes

> I am not sure there are any
> truly Italian bakers in London, though many imitations, particularly
> ciabatta,

I've been working in Exeter Street Bakery in Park Royal for 2 years.
They sell their bread to many restaurants and retail it in Kensington.
Their bread is really good, made with long fermentation (no prover).
Their Ciabatta is probably the best in london, made the way it should
be, and their foccacia is very good too!

Just for you to check it out The shop is in 1b Argyll Road

__

About the competition, will it still happen?
Because I am really interested, as I bake lots of bread myself at
home.

Cheers.

On 12 Jun, 10:45, viince > wrote:
> > I am not sure there are any
> > truly Italian bakers in London, though many imitations, particularly
> > ciabatta,
>
> I've been working in Exeter Street Bakery in Park Royal for 2 years.
> ...Their Ciabatta is probably the best in london, made the way it should
> be, and their foccacia is very good too!
>
> Just for you to check it out The shop is in 1b Argyll Road
>
> __
>
> Cheers.

I wasn't sure what he meant by " truly Italian bakers in London" and
didn't want to get involved but since you bring it up again, there's a
guy baking in Great Suffolk Street SE1 he's been there for donkeys, he
inspired me to start baking at home and he's a bona fide Italian guy
baking in London. It's a tiny bakery though, I don't know how he does
it. Great maggolini. He doesn't do natural leaven, least he didn't, I
haven't bought bread in ages so I don't know now. I can't believe good
Italian bakeries are that few and far between. You can get some great
ciabatta in town if you don't mind paying for it. Okay it could be
baked by English hands, or even Polish or Russian these days. I don't
think the nationality of the baker matters though do you, as long as
the bread's good?

Jim

> > Cheers.
>
> I wasn't sure what he meant by " truly Italian bakers in London" and
> didn't want to get involved but since you bring it up again, there's a
> guy baking in Great Suffolk Street SE1 he's been there for donkeys, he
> inspired me to start baking at home and he's a bona fide Italian guy
> baking in London. It's a tiny bakery though, I don't know how he does
> it. Great maggolini. He doesn't do natural leaven, least he didn't, I
> haven't bought bread in ages so I don't know now. I can't believe good
> Italian bakeries are that few and far between. You can get some great
> ciabatta in town if you don't mind paying for it. Okay it could be
> baked by English hands, or even Polish or Russian these days. I don't
> think the nationality of the baker matters though do you, as long as
> the bread's good?
>
> Jim

Oh thanks for the tip, this is very close to my school, I'll go check
it out someday.
As you say, if you buy handmade bread in london it's 90% sure it's
been touched by a polish baker! I've worked in quite a few bakeries in
london and most of the staff is polish Soon I'll be fluent in
polish, as they talk most of the time in polish!