What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
we

The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
World Sourdough from Antiquity

Russ

Try Ed Wood's "Classic Sourdoughs" . Explains the sourdough method(s) and
prncaples, and also includes 90+ recipes.

Roland

PS For some reason this book does not seem to be mentioned in DG's excellent
FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier book to which you referred to (which
has now been out of print for a number of years).


"PastorDIC" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> we
>
> The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
> World Sourdough from Antiquity *** Ed Wood***
>
> Russ
>

PastorDIC wrote:

> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> we
>
> The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
> World Sourdough from Antiquity
>
> Russ

Russ if you're new to making bread, period, I'd suggest something like
Peter Reinhart The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Honestly everyone makes so
much fuss about the starter, there's a few basics to grasp, once you've
got them you really need to learn how to handle the dough and shape it.
Peter Reinhart's book has some good photos to help here. Any yeasted
bread recipe will work for sourdough as long as you increase the rise
times and leave out the yeast. : -) The starter amount will vary
depending on temps, timing and some will tell you personal taste but
what works is what works. As much respect as I have for Ed I don't look
at his book very often.

Jim

Hey Jim.

Reinharts book is a beautiful! Not cheap, and many recipes use commercial
yeast.
Ed's book is a beauty in a different way. No fancy pics, but plenty of
useful sourdough info, plus 90+ SD ONLY recipes. I recommend both books to
any SD baker (with Ed's being my first choice)

Roland


"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> PastorDIC wrote:
>
> > What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> > I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> > we
> >
> > The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
> > World Sourdough from Antiquity
> >
> > Russ
>
> Russ if you're new to making bread, period, I'd suggest something like
> Peter Reinhart The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Honestly everyone makes so
> much fuss about the starter, there's a few basics to grasp, once you've
> got them you really need to learn how to handle the dough and shape it.
> Peter Reinhart's book has some good photos to help here. Any yeasted
> bread recipe will work for sourdough as long as you increase the rise
> times and leave out the yeast. : -) The starter amount will vary
> depending on temps, timing and some will tell you personal taste but
> what works is what works. As much respect as I have for Ed I don't look
> at his book very often.
>
> Jim
>

dutch wrote:

> Hey Jim.
>
> Reinharts book is a beautiful! Not cheap, and many recipes use commercial
> yeast.
> Ed's book is a beauty in a different way. No fancy pics, but plenty of
> useful sourdough info, plus 90+ SD ONLY recipes. I recommend both books to
> any SD baker (with Ed's being my first choice)
>
> Roland

Yeah, you're right Reinhart's book isn't cheap but I think it is worth
it. Ed's book was joy to read also, I've just only ever made one recipe
from it. The thing I find frustrating about it is the info seams to be
scattered about the book. If I wanted to make one recipe I'd need to
look up how to make up the starter. I couldn't find that last time I
looked and ending up just guessing it at 100%.

Reinhart does use yeast a lot, but that's okay, the principles for the
dough and baking are the same.

If you're a baker already then definitely go for Ed's.

Jim

PastorDIC wrote:

> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> we
>


There's The Bread Bible by Rosa Beranbaum. There's a good chapter on
sourdough, and she even has a recipe and procedure for creating your own
starter. The book itself is very thorough with lots and lots of
information. She gives volume and weight measurements (weights
available in ounces and grams) in most of her recipes. Also has a blog
at http://www.realbakingwithrose.com

My hubby gave me this one, as well as "Brother Juniper" by Peter
Reinhart and "Classic Sourdoughs". I've already got "Crusts & Crumbs"
and am planning to get BBA using my Borders Reward card.

Lola J. Lee Beno

In article . com>,
says...
> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> we
>
> The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
> World Sourdough from Antiquity
>
> Russ
>
>
The King Arthur Flour "Baker's Companion" has a good (imo) section on
sourdough, and of course, many of the other recipes in the book can be
adapted.

Another interesting book is "Wild Fermentation" by S. Katz. I got it
for information on pickling vegetables, but the bread section looks good
as well.

Bob

Speaking of Ed Wood, has anyone looked at Worldwide Sourdoughs from
Your Bread Machine by Donna Rathmell German and Ed Wood?

I'm a little skeptical of sourdough in a bread machine (unless you are
like me and set it on dough cycle and take it out after the first
mixing).

Russ

On Jan 7, 5:39 am, "TG" > wrote:
> dutch wrote:
> > Hey Jim.
> > Ed's book is a beauty in a different way. No fancy pics, but plenty of
> > useful sourdough info, plus 90+ SD ONLY recipes. I recommend both books to
> > any SD baker (with Ed's being my first choice)

Lola Lee wrote:

> PastorDIC wrote:
>
>> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
>> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
>> we

> There's The Bread Bible by Rosa Beranbaum.

That would be "Rose Levy Beranbaum."

B/

PastorDIC wrote:
> What are some good books with sourdough recipes?
You've been casting about a bit here lately. You've had problems with
starters, recipes and more. I don't know how familiar you are with
baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.

If you are already experienced as a baker, or once you get that
experience, my strong suggestion is pick A sourdough book or A website
and stick with it. Different people have different ways of dealing with
sourdough, and the methods are often contradictory, causing more
confusion, especially for the less experienced baker.

While the FAQ is a rich document, it represents a number of points of
view and it tends to be confusing to beginners, so I do not recommend it
to beginners. Similarly, the newsgroup can be confusing as different
people here do things differently. There are a lot of people here with
strong opinions, and who will express them - often loudly. That is not
to say one is right or one is wrong. There are many ways to deal with
sourdough, and as long as they allow the baker to produce the breads
they want to make, they can be said to work. But... when one person
says "cat" and another says "dog" and another says "bread fairey" and
another says "use rye" and another says "don't use rye" and another
says... well, a beginner is going to get confused.

Dr. Wood's book is very good at explaining the a set of techniques for
dealing with sourdough and the underlying principles. Some people do
not like his bread recipes, but that is a matter of taste. The book is
still excellent at explaining handling sourdough. I feel that all the
other books from large publishers I have read have severe weaknesses,
usually combining yeast with sourdough which is not necessary, or
understating the importance of maintaining a healthy, viable starter.

Once you have selected A book or A website and have become familiar with
the techniques the author suggests, you can use those techniques to
modify other recipes, and the knowledge to understand how other people
handle sourdough. At that point, you can begin to understand how other
people handle sourdough and decide which techniques work to help you
make the bread you want to make.

Mike

PastorDIC wrote:
> What are some good books with sourdough recipes? The only recipe ones
> I saw in Darrell Greenwood's faq (unless I missed some with recipes)
> we
>
> The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book
> World Sourdough from Antiquity
>
> Russ
>
Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf
Ellen

Mike Avery wrote:
There are a lot of people here with
> strong opinions,... But... when one person
> says "cat" and another says "dog" and another says "bread fairey" and
> another says "use rye" and another says "don't use rye" and another
> says... well, a beginner is going to get confused.
>
>

Mike, while I generally agree with the entirety of your post, I feel
that I must point out the the correct spelling is: "Bread Faeries."
And, it should be capitalized.

Not to pick nits, but it is not good practice to upset any of the Wee Folk.

Regards,

Charles

Charles Perry wrote:
> Mike Avery wrote:
> There are a lot of people here with
>
>> strong opinions,... But... when one person
>> says "cat" and another says "dog" and another says "bread fairey" and
>> another says "use rye" and another says "don't use rye" and another
>> says... well, a beginner is going to get confused.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Mike, while I generally agree with the entirety of your post, I feel
> that I must point out the the correct spelling is: "Bread Faeries."
> And, it should be capitalized.
>
> Not to pick nits, but it is not good practice to upset any of the Wee Folk.
>
>
You are absolutely right, of course.... but the spelling checker let me
down and neither it nor I really knew what to do....

Mike



--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Mike Avery wrote:

> You've been casting about a bit here lately. You've had problems with
> starters, recipes and more. I don't know how familiar you are with
> baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
> suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
> easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.


I agree with Mike here. If you're not a long term baker, get Rose Levy
Beranbaum's "Bread Bible", she has very explicit instructions and good
coverage of what-is-going-on. It is quite good for yeast breads. And
that is the right place to start.

If you are determined to work with sourdough, get Laurel Robertson's
bread book and work your way through the chapters.

But get a book. Posting that you don't know your room temperature
doesn't give much confidence that you can figure things out. And
frankly, your method for temperature testing when you attempted to
revive Carl's starter sucked. You said you checked the temperature. But
what you did was feel the water on your wrist. Or rather your wife's
wrist. Perhaps you believe that's good enough. But really... how hard
is it to use a thermometer?

"Bread Faeries." ?
Is that only in England or you trying to avoid the San Francisco spelling/
(Fairys)

James L. Davidson wrote:
> "Bread Faeries." ?
> Is that only in England
>

Davidson at one time was a good Scotch Irish name. Maybe you have older
relatives that can explain how the Bread Faeries raise the bread dough.
If not, you may ask at any good Irish pub where there is usually a
resident expert on the Wee Folk.

Nothing against American English, but I am given to understand that the
Bread Faeries prefer the old country spelling.

Regards,

Charles

Google burped, so I'll publish this a 2nd time.

On Jan 7, 12:48 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:
>I don't know how familiar you are with
> baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
> suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
> easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.

Just because I am not a professional baker doesn't mean I don't have
experience baking bread, or for that matter, using starter. I have
both.

>my strong suggestion is pick A sourdough book or A website
> and stick with it.

I did just that, Mike. I picked your website. I picked your recipes.
I made your bread recipe multiple times. Then you come and say pick
someone and stick with it. I had already been using your material.

After baking your bread multiple times, I gave details and asked
questions. I get you saying this, and all the experts saying "too many
rises". "Not long enough rises". "To many rises and not long enough
rises for the ones you should have". If I am to blame, then it looks
like you need to really rework all your material, or no one seems to
agree with you.
Russ

Looks like you need to get back to basics Russ...., and don't get your head
in a spin.
SD are living creatures, and if you don't do the same thing(s) all the time,
it will behave unpredictably.

Use a proven starter (any of Ed's FULL instruction starters, or Carl's)
Use accurate measurements (preferably by weight)
Control temperature as accurately as you can. (proof box recommended)
Get a good book (you need it) Ed Wood's is still my recommendation.

Happy baking

Roland


"PastorDIC" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Google burped, so I'll publish this a 2nd time.
>
> On Jan 7, 12:48 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:
> >I don't know how familiar you are with
> > baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
> > suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
> > easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.
>
> Just because I am not a professional baker doesn't mean I don't have
> experience baking bread, or for that matter, using starter. I have
> both.
>
> >my strong suggestion is pick A sourdough book or A website
> > and stick with it.
>
> I did just that, Mike. I picked your website. I picked your recipes.
> I made your bread recipe multiple times. Then you come and say pick
> someone and stick with it. I had already been using your material.
>
> After baking your bread multiple times, I gave details and asked
> questions. I get you saying this, and all the experts saying "too many
> rises". "Not long enough rises". "To many rises and not long enough
> rises for the ones you should have". If I am to blame, then it looks
> like you need to really rework all your material, or no one seems to
> agree with you.
> Russ
>

ellen wickberg wrote:
> Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf
> Ellen

Yes I was going to suggest that but didn't know how available it was in
the US. It's about £19 here.

Jim

PastorDIC wrote:
> Google burped, so I'll publish this a 2nd time.
>
> On Jan 7, 12:48 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:
> >I don't know how familiar you are with
> > baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
> > suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
> > easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.
>
> Just because I am not a professional baker doesn't mean I don't have
> experience baking bread, or for that matter, using starter. I have
> both.
>
> >my strong suggestion is pick A sourdough book or A website
> > and stick with it.
>
> I did just that, Mike. I picked your website. I picked your recipes.
> I made your bread recipe multiple times. Then you come and say pick
> someone and stick with it. I had already been using your material.
>
> After baking your bread multiple times, I gave details and asked
> questions. I get you saying this, and all the experts saying "too many
> rises". "Not long enough rises". "To many rises and not long enough
> rises for the ones you should have". If I am to blame, then it looks
> like you need to really rework all your material, or no one seems to
> agree with you.
> Russ

Hi Russ,

it's very hard to take advice from groups like this, very few people
give all the information that you need. Just to say longer rises or
shorter rises is not good enough. Without saying how much starter you
need and what you should have done with the starter it's impossible to
really say, then on top of that you have the temperature issue.

Sourdough can seem very complicated indeed. There are two basic
schools:
Those that prefer to ferment the starter a long time.
And those that prefer to ferment the dough a long time.

Add to this the sub groups of those that use a little starter and those
that use a lot and all the others in between, you've got a lot of
conflicting 'half' advice. That's why it's very important, if you want
to progress quickly to choose a good teacher and stick with that
teacher. Oh, and don't forget the teacher needs to accept you as a
pupil. : -) More importantly it's important to respect that teacher and
have good communication, that is by trying to understand what it is
they are telling you, assume that they know what they mean and that
you've misunderstood. It might not always be the case but at least then
you look favourable. This is in your interest.

Mike is a very kind a generous person who you would do well do stick
with.

Okay so this is bread and not the road to enlightenment but you are
very lucky to have such kind and generous people to offer their
knowledge for free nonetheless. Use them wisely. : -)

Jim

PastorDIC wrote:
> Google burped, so I'll publish this a 2nd time.
>
> On Jan 7, 12:48 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:
>
>> I don't know how familiar you are with
>> baking in general. If you don't have much experience as a baker, I
>> suggest you start with simpler yeasted white flour recipes. They are
>> easier and will help you develop confidence and your techniques.
>>
>
> Just because I am not a professional baker doesn't mean I don't have
> experience baking bread, or for that matter, using starter. I have
> both.
>
>
My comment was because I didn't know how much experience you have. If
you have said, "I've been baking for 5 years" somewhere, I never saw
that post. I like to cover my bets, so the disclaimer was needed. You
have no idea how many letters I get from people who have never baked at
all and suddenly want to bake whole wheat sourdough from a starter they
made themselves and they don't know why things aren't working for them.

> After baking your bread multiple times, I gave details and asked
> questions. I get you saying this, and all the experts saying "too many
> rises". "Not long enough rises". "To many rises and not long enough
> rises for the ones you should have". If I am to blame, then it looks
> like you need to really rework all your material, or no one seems to
> agree with you.
> Russ
I don't recall saying you are to blame, just that you seem to be having
a lot of trouble. I think the issue might be "all the experts." Cut
the babble out of your life for a while by sticking with one book,
website or teacher. Avoid the newsgroups and mailing lists and work on
a single bread.... control your variables until you get a handle on what
the results are.

My usual suggestion for a "teach yourself to bake" class is to go to a
bakery you like and buy a loaf of bread. Then dissect it. Examine its
flavor, its crust, its crumb, its color. Take notes.

Then find a recipe for the same sort of bread and make it. Compare the
two. Again, take notes. They will probably not be terribly similar.

Now change ONE thing in your recipe or procedure to make your bread more
like the one you bought. Dissect the bread again.

Again, take notes, again, make ONE change. You will learn what changes
what in baking.

Repeat the steps above until you think you're close to duplicating the
loaf you purchased. Then go buy another one and see how close you are.
You'll probably have to repeat the steps above again a few more times.

The goal is not to make a loaf better than the one you bought, but one
just like it. You'll probably make a number of loaves better than the
store bought loaf. Keep your notes so you can repeat those loaves when
you're ready. The goal is to match the loaf you bought. You'll learn
about changes in flours, hydration, kneading, rise times, multiple rises
and baking. And when you're done, you'll have a much better idea of how
to get from where your recipe is to where you want it to be.

None of the things talked about are good or bad, some are just more or
less appropriate for the bread you may want to be making today.

Good luck,
Mike


--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

TG wrote:
> ellen wickberg wrote:
>
>>Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf
>>Ellen
>
>
> Yes I was going to suggest that but didn't know how available it was in
> the US. It's about £19 here.
>
> Jim
>
I had no problem purchasing it here in
Canada.
Ellen

On Jan 8, 5:36 am, "TG" > wrote:
> Mike is a very kind a generous person who you would do well do stick
> with.

But that was my point. I used Mike's website and recipes, and then
get all sorts of garbage from others on thist list about how everything
I am doing is wrong, when I not only followed his instructions, but the
recipes worked fine.

>
> Jim-

On January 07, 2007 Russ wrote:


> What are some good books with sourdough recipes?

Hi Russ:

It looks like you have been getting several good suggestions. The problem
is that few books that I am aware of deal only with sourdough. The examples
I am aware of are Ed Wood's books. I own all three.

Others have some recipes for sourdough; some contain conflicting information
(e.g., yeast is caught from the "air" in a new starter). Some use baker's
yeast in the sourdough recipes. While far behind in reading the newsgroup
posts, I doubt that you have been given any "bad" suggestions. All books
have strengths and weaknesses. All recipes to the best of my knowledge and
meager experience can be converted to use a natural leaven completely
eliminating the baker's yeast from the recipe. Pick a book, pick a single
recipe follow it faithfully as far as it will take you and then add another
recipe and later another book. Keep detailed notes.

I like Ed Wood's books perhaps because they were my first. They offered me
some good background and basic understanding. I would not part with them.

They have numerous sourdough recipes that I have replicated successfully.
That said, I now converted all of his recipes that I use to weight and
modified the starter build. (Since roughly Thanksgiving, I have been using
a continuous starter build methodology with two daily feedings and making
bread every two or three days based upon household need.)

However, the 1994 edition of Dr. Wood's book with Donna Rathmell Germain,
"World Sourdoughs From Your Bread Machine," is dated. Bread machines like
computers have changed much since 1994.

Frankly, I had little luck making bread in a breadmaker until I got my
Breadman Ultimate 2200C. Being fully programmable I make naturally leavened
bread using the Russian strain from SDI quite frequently in the machine.
Total run time ranges from 7 to nearly 8 hours. I have a couple of recipes
on my blog. If interested start he
http://sourdoughbaking.blogspot.com/...e-1.html#links

Imho, making naturally leavened bread in a breadmaker requires the right
machine and a thorough understanding of the culture and the recipe one is
using. I much prefer to use the Russian strain than I do the OSF one when
using my breadmaker. They are distinctly different. I have no experience
with Carls' or any other starter strains.

If one carefully observes the stages and development of the dough when
making a recipe by hand, including monitoring dough and environmental
temperatures, then one will have a high probability of success if one can
program those parameters into the machine. I have to make some adjustments
in cooler/ warmer weather just like I do when making bread by hand. I do it
regularly; never had a failure. However, it may just be dumb luck. The
major drawback is the "paddle" hole in the bottom of the loaf.

As for other books, I personally found "Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book" very
helpful and thus purchased a copy. I got "Bread: A Baker's Book of
Techniques and Recipes," by Jeffery Hamelman for Christmas and have been
very, very pleased. If Rose Beranbaum's, "Bread Bible," which I have not
read, is on par with her "Pie and Pastry Bible," which I now own and
treasure (thanks for the tip Will), then I assume it to be excellent.

Many "bread books" are in my local library and I have checked many of them
out. I have not felt the need to own them. Most were helpful and
informative, yet sometimes completely contradictory on certain points. Some
have one making huge quantities of starter which is subsequently discarded.

I thus suggest a trip to the library and a perusal of the offerings
available. Perhaps it may require requests via inter-library loan. Then
you can personally decide which merit parting with your hard earned dollars
and space in your bookcase.

Regardless, I suggest that you pick a "good" book, tune out the newsgroup
noise/ cross-talk and bake some bread following the author's recipes and
techniques. My meager eclectic skills are a result of taking a little from
here and a little from there and adding some of my own.

Best of luck,

Ray

"PastorDIC" > wrote in message ups.com...

> What are some good books with sourdough recipes?

Well, I did write one. But, in the end, it was only one page long.
It is he http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...structions.doc

It's best with bromated bread flour, such as All Trumps 50111
http://www.gmiflour.com/gmflour/Flou...%20Br50111.doc
which you can't get in the west. Well, you need MSWord to read
these *.doc files, and that could be a problem. Also a good starter,
like Carl's www.carlsfriends.org or Mr. Baker http://tinyurl.com/6vm9g .
Carl's starter takes forever to arrive, and the other one costs a few bucks.
Possibly bromate can give you cancer.

Well, not everyone likes compact information. Maybe that is why I
cannot sell any books.

In the west you can frequently get sourdough bread at the store,
which could be a good thing.

--
Dicky

PastorDIC wrote:
> On Jan 8, 5:36 am, "TG" > wrote:
> > Mike is a very kind a generous person who you would do well do stick
> > with.
>
> But that was my point. I used Mike's website and recipes, and then
> get all sorts of garbage from others on thist list about how everything
> I am doing is wrong, when I not only followed his instructions, but the
> recipes worked fine.
>
> >
> > Jim-

Oh Sorry, I sometimes scan through too quickly and miss 'subtlety'. Mea
culpa.

Jim

Thanks for the information, blogsite !with pictures!, and recipes.
They all look good except for one thing. Aren't you being a bit of a
slacker not posting on your blog since Monday, November 20, 2006?
:-)

The Russion starter is the one that I've got coming in the mail to try
now. I've been patiently waiting for it to arrive.

Russ

On Jan 9, 8:03 am, "WRK" > wrote:
> Frankly, I had little luck making bread in a breadmaker until I got my
> Breadman Ultimate 2200C. Being fully programmable I make naturally leavened
> bread using the Russian strain from SDI quite frequently in the machine.
> Total run time ranges from 7 to nearly 8 hours. I have a couple of recipes
> on my blog. If interested start hehttp://sourdoughbaking.blogspot.com/...ne-100-whole-w...
>
> Imho, making naturally leavened bread in a breadmaker requires the right
> machine and a thorough understanding of the culture and the recipe one is
> using. I much prefer to use the Russian strain than I do the OSF one when
> using my breadmaker. They are distinctly different. I have no experience
> with Carls' or any other starter strains.> Best of luck,
>
> Ray

On Wednesday, January 10, 2007, Russ wrote:

> The Russion starter is the one that I've got coming in the mail to try
> now. I've been patiently waiting for it to arrive.
>

Hi Russ,

Novice hikers feel comfortable going several miles into the Rocky Mountain
wilderness in shorts, tee shirt and flip-flops on a bright, sunny summer
day. I have been told Park Rangers dread such days.

Others acutely aware of mother nature's deception carry a box of waterproof
matches, a fire-stick, an emergency blanket, a small first aid kit, a
nutritious calorie-dense snack, a map and compass, whistle, extra water, a
rain jacket and extra warm when wet clothing. They hope they don't need it
on any given day.

Most frequent wilderness hikers have seen others being lead out by a Ranger
on a horse or carried out by EMT's on a streacher. The lucky ones are blue,
shivering , teeth are clattering and while generally miserable they are
still walking. It went from the 80's to a drenching rain and hail/ sleet
storm in a matter of minutes; happens all the time.

Thus, given the caveat from Dr. Wood's website concerning the cultu
"CULTURES WITHOUT INSTRUCTIONS: $9.00 TO BE USED ONLY WITH THE DIRECTIONS IN
THE BOOK, CLASSIC SOURDOUGHS," I assume that you also purchased the book,
"Classic Sourdoughs." I also assume that you have a proofing box or other
method to adequately maintain an optimum temperature to start your new
culture.

That said, I am very happy with the Russian culture. It has become my
favorite.

Good luck,

Ray

Thanks for your smart analogy.

Also, concerning your snippet below, yes, I bought the book also.
Russ


> Thus, given the caveat from Dr. Wood's website concerning the cultu
> "CULTURES WITHOUT INSTRUCTIONS: $9.00 TO BE USED ONLY WITH THE DIRECTIONS IN
> THE BOOK, CLASSIC SOURDOUGHS," I assume that you also purchased the book,
> "Classic Sourdoughs." I also assume that you have a proofing box or other
> method to adequately maintain an optimum temperature to start your new
> culture.
>
> That said, I am very happy with the Russian culture. It has become my
> favorite.
> Good luck,
> Ray

On Thursday, January 11, 2007, Russ wrote:

> Also, concerning your snippet below, yes, I bought the book also.

Hey Russ:

Great. I don't think you will ever regret the purchase.

One tidbit of personal experience. Using the book during my first foray
into sourdough, my results were extremely inconsistent. Batch to batch
produced considerable variability. All was generally edible but some loaves
were better than others.

When returning this time I took advice from Mike Avery and others concerning
weighing ingredients. I personally cannot imagine doing it any other way.
I even weigh the water as I find that to be easier than seeing the faded
lines on an old Pyrex cup that has been through the dishwasher many, many
times. While others completely disagree concerning weighing ingredients, I
find that my batch to batch consistency is greatly improved and virtually
imperceptible.

If you do decide to go the weight route, Ed's conversions/ assumptions begin
on page 200 of the book. From that information it is easy to convert all
the recipes that you use in his book to weight. I did it using a
spreadsheet and further converted to grams which I prefer.

Again, good luck.

Ray

On Jan 7, 4:08 am, "dutch" > wrote:
> Try Ed Wood's "Classic Sourdoughs" . Explains the sourdough method(s) and
> prncaples, and also includes 90+ recipes.
> Roland
>
> PS For some reason this book does not seem to be mentioned in DG's excellent
> FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier book to which you referred to (which
> has now been out of print for a number of years).

Funny, Dicky didn't seem to think the FAQ needed to be updated at all,
unless I misunderstood him, which is certainly possible.
Russ

On Jan 11, 12:16 pm, "WRK" > wrote:
> On Thursday, January 11, 2007, Russ wrote:
> > Also, concerning your snippet below, yes, I bought the book also.

> Hey Russ:
> Great. I don't think you will ever regret the purchase.
> If you do decide to go the weight route, Ed's conversions/ assumptions begin
> on page 200 of the book. From that information it is easy to convert all
> the recipes that you use in his book to weight. I did it using a
> spreadsheet and further converted to grams which I prefer.
> Again, good luck.
> Ray

Thanks to everyone who suggested books to get. (Ray, Roland, Mike,
Jim, and Ellen, and anyone else I might have forgotten.)

I ended up getting Ed Wood's "Classic Sourdoughs", which is very
interesting, Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf, which has wonderful
pictures and recipes I am very interested in trying out, and The
Laurel's Kitchen Bread book, which I haven't looked at.
Russ

"PastorDIC" > wrote in message ps.com...
> > For some (Wood's *Classic Sourdoughs*) does not seem to be
> > mentioned in DG's excellent FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier
> > book ... which has now been out of print for a number of years.

Roland reviewed the earlier book he
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/whatares...ksonbread.html
Perhaps you would like to submit a review of the update?

Otherwise, there are nine reviews of *Classic Sourdoughs* at
Amazon.com.

> Funny, Dicky didn't seem to think the FAQ needed to be updated at all,
> unless I misunderstood him, which is certainly possible.

That discussion was about updating from recent r.f.s. posts. I
adadsurdably posed the rhetorical question: which recent posts?

--
Dicky

In article
>,
"Dick Adams" > wrote:

> "PastorDIC" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > > For some (Wood's *Classic Sourdoughs*) does not seem to be
> > > mentioned in DG's excellent FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier
> > > book ... which has now been out of print for a number of years.
>
> Roland reviewed the earlier book he
> http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/whatares...ksonbread.html
> Perhaps you would like to submit a review of the update?
>


I think there are two people signing off with Roland posting. One me
(responsible for some of the original reviews) and someone else who
recently plugged the Wood book. Now that I know, I will try to remember
to sign off with Roland S to help distinguish us. I am just popping
back temporarily so do not actually expect to participate a lot.

Since the time many of the books were reviewed there have been a lot
more books on bread. For example at the time I plugged Laurel
Robertson, Bernard Clayton was the standard tome and he mainly had an
encyclopedic collection of recipes. The window pane test that I
suggested was a good end point described in the Robertson book now is
found in every single book. The more recent books are better
illustrated, have more specific information etc. Each has its own
advantages. Not much interest on my end of reviewing them but the bar
has risen a lot since the time I wrote the original reviews.


Roland S

Hey Roland S!

Roland Here,

Yep, seems I'm the culprit.
Sorry about the confusion ALL. I've only baked SD seriously over the last
six months or so, but learned a LOT in that time; but still learning more as
I go....
I enjoyed Roland S's (and others) contributions in the FAQ's. It's a fairly
comprehensive list of SD subjects.

In future I will sign off as Roland B, so everyone knows who's who!

and a very good day to you, Roland S!


Roland B.







----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Doe" >
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Good books with sourdough recipes?


> In article
> >,
> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>
> > "PastorDIC" > wrote in message
> > ps.com...
> > > > For some (Wood's *Classic Sourdoughs*) does not seem to be
> > > > mentioned in DG's excellent FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier
> > > > book ... which has now been out of print for a number of years.
> >
> > Roland reviewed the earlier book he
> > http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/whatares...ksonbread.html
> > Perhaps you would like to submit a review of the update?
> >
>
>
> I think there are two people signing off with Roland posting. One me
> (responsible for some of the original reviews) and someone else who
> recently plugged the Wood book. Now that I know, I will try to remember
> to sign off with Roland S to help distinguish us. I am just popping
> back temporarily so do not actually expect to participate a lot.
>
> Since the time many of the books were reviewed there have been a lot
> more books on bread. For example at the time I plugged Laurel
> Robertson, Bernard Clayton was the standard tome and he mainly had an
> encyclopedic collection of recipes. The window pane test that I
> suggested was a good end point described in the Robertson book now is
> found in every single book. The more recent books are better
> illustrated, have more specific information etc. Each has its own
> advantages. Not much interest on my end of reviewing them but the bar
> has risen a lot since the time I wrote the original reviews.
>
>
> Roland S
"Joe Doe" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>
> > "PastorDIC" > wrote in message
> > ps.com...
> > > > For some (Wood's *Classic Sourdoughs*) does not seem to be
> > > > mentioned in DG's excellent FAQ. It is an "update" on Ed's earlier
> > > > book ... which has now been out of print for a number of years.
> >
> > Roland reviewed the earlier book he
> > http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/whatares...ksonbread.html
> > Perhaps you would like to submit a review of the update?
> >
>
>
> I think there are two people signing off with Roland posting. One me
> (responsible for some of the original reviews) and someone else who
> recently plugged the Wood book. Now that I know, I will try to remember
> to sign off with Roland S to help distinguish us. I am just popping
> back temporarily so do not actually expect to participate a lot.
>
> Since the time many of the books were reviewed there have been a lot
> more books on bread. For example at the time I plugged Laurel
> Robertson, Bernard Clayton was the standard tome and he mainly had an
> encyclopedic collection of recipes. The window pane test that I
> suggested was a good end point described in the Robertson book now is
> found in every single book. The more recent books are better
> illustrated, have more specific information etc. Each has its own
> advantages. Not much interest on my end of reviewing them but the bar
> has risen a lot since the time I wrote the original reviews.
>
>
> Roland S