Hi all,

I've been lurking here for quite some time learning to make sourdough bread
and with all the advice given I have succeeded with the last several loaves.
The family and I love this bread,

When is it best to slice the top of the bread, before it rises or after ?

Bill

On 12/17/06, bill > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking here for quite some time learning to make sourdough bread
> and with all the advice given I have succeeded with the last several loaves.
> The family and I love this bread,
>
> When is it best to slice the top of the bread, before it rises or after ?
>
> Bill

Before you bake it. How long before depends on several issues, one of
them what kind of effect you want to achieve - wide or narrow result
or influence loaf shape.

Factors affecting outcome are hydration, fermentation degree, flour
type, loaf shape, loaf skin, cutting depth and what else have you...

If you cut it before it rises, the effect of the cut will be
eliminated by the loaf expansion.

Maybe you start with cutting it right before you put it in the oven
and see what that gets you. Later on, cut earlier, maybe 10 minutes
before and see the difference.

Samartha

In article >,
says...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking here for quite some time learning to make sourdough bread
> and with all the advice given I have succeeded with the last several loaves.
> The family and I love this bread,
>
> When is it best to slice the top of the bread, before it rises or after ?
>
> Bill
>
I like the results I get by slashing the top of a loaf just before
putting it in the oven. If you're using a wash of any kind, apply it
first, then slash. As another poster mentioned, slashing a loaf before
it rises defeats the purpose.

Bob

"yetanotherBob" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been lurking here for quite some time learning to make sourdough
>> bread
>> and with all the advice given I have succeeded with the last several
>> loaves.
>> The family and I love this bread,
>>
>> When is it best to slice the top of the bread, before it rises or after ?
>>
>> Bill
>>
> I like the results I get by slashing the top of a loaf just before
> putting it in the oven. If you're using a wash of any kind, apply it
> first, then slash. As another poster mentioned, slashing a loaf before
> it rises defeats the purpose.
>
> Bob

I do it the mediaeval way when baking a free form round loaf, I cut all
round the outside of the dough before it goes into the oven.

Mary

So does anyone have any tips in using a lame? I've only used mine a
little and it has a tendancy to drag along the bread surface. I'm sure
it has something to do with my technique.
Thanks.
Russ

On Dec 17, 5:43 am, "Samartha Deva"
> wrote:
> On 12/17/06, bill > wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I've been lurking here for quite some time learning to make sourdough bread
> > and with all the advice given I have succeeded with the last several loaves.
> > The family and I love this bread,
>
> > When is it best to slice the top of the bread, before it rises or after ?
>
> > BillBefore you bake it. How long before depends on several issues, one of
> them what kind of effect you want to achieve - wide or narrow result
> or influence loaf shape.
>
> Factors affecting outcome are hydration, fermentation degree, flour
> type, loaf shape, loaf skin, cutting depth and what else have you...
>
> If you cut it before it rises, the effect of the cut will be
> eliminated by the loaf expansion.
>
> Maybe you start with cutting it right before you put it in the oven
> and see what that gets you. Later on, cut earlier, maybe 10 minutes
> before and see the difference.
>
> Samartha

Is your lame really sharp? I bought one a few years ago, and ended up
using it to slice the tape on parcels and such. It wasn't really very
sharp when I got it, and I couldn't get it to take an edge as sharp as
most of my kitchen knives.

Anymore, I just use one of those Olfa knives that are razor sharp and
easy to renew, just by snapping off a blade segment. They're pretty
inexpensive, and seem to work fine for me. Single edge razor blades
work well, too, but are a pain to store safely and harder (for me,
anyway) to pick off the counter up with sticky, flour-coated fingers.

Bob
=============================
In article . com>,
says...
>
> So does anyone have any tips in using a lame? I've only used mine a
> little and it has a tendancy to drag along the bread surface. I'm sure
> it has something to do with my technique.
> Thanks.
> Russ
>

PastorDIC wrote:
> So does anyone have any tips in using a lame? I've only used mine a
> little and it has a tendancy to drag along the bread surface.

The bread surface needs to be a bit dry and leathery to use a lame
effectively. Usually this state occurs when you proof with linen or
some other cloth that removes some moisture from the dough surface. If
the surface is damp and plastic, even a very sharp lame will drag, not
cut. It helps a bit to use a wet blade but the definitive solution is
to have the appropriate dough surface.

If you are not proofing (and inverting) from a lined basket or other
form try using sharp, narrow bladed scissors. You will get very nice
cuts that way. Wet the scissor blades first...

yetanotherBob wrote:

> Is your lame really sharp? I bought one a few years ago, and ended up
> using it to slice the tape on parcels and such. It wasn't really very
> sharp when I got it, and I couldn't get it to take an edge as sharp as
> most of my kitchen knives.
>
> Anymore, I just use one of those Olfa knives that are razor sharp and
> easy to renew, just by snapping off a blade segment.

That sounds like a good idea, I bought a lame recently, it's so simple
though I feel a bit stupid even buying it, it's just a thin piece of
metal like a 'rib' in a shirt collar but longer and thinner. It fits
into the old fashioned razor blades, they're dirt cheap and keep the
opened blades in a pencil case. I've also used a scalpel, I'm not sure
which is better but the lame and razor blades feels safer somehow. I
hate putting new blades on a scalpel. I keep that in the same pencil
case, the tin kind you get with a set of pencils.

It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer though. A
sharpened knife quickly and confidently pulled across the top is very
good too but you don't have so much control but I used that for a long,
long time before experimenting with different blades just fine.

Jim

I just recently bought my lame, so it should be sharp.
Russ

On Jan 1, 8:09 am, yetanotherBob > wrote:
> Is your lame really sharp? I bought one a few years ago, and ended up
> using it to slice the tape on parcels and such. It wasn't really very
> sharp when I got it, and I couldn't get it to take an edge as sharp as
> most of my kitchen knives.
>
> Anymore, I just use one of those Olfa knives that are razor sharp and
> easy to renew, just by snapping off a blade segment. They're pretty
> inexpensive, and seem to work fine for me. Single edge razor blades
> work well, too, but are a pain to store safely and harder (for me,
> anyway) to pick off the counter up with sticky, flour-coated fingers.
>
> Bob
> =============================
> In article . com>,
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > So does anyone have any tips in using a lame? I've only used mine a
> > little and it has a tendancy to drag along the bread surface. I'm sure
> > it has something to do with my technique.
> > Thanks.
> > Russ- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

On 1 Jan 2007 17:02:17 -0800, "PastorDIC"
> wrote:

>I just recently bought my lame, so it should be sharp.
>Russ

Hi Russ,

I agree with the tips you have received, but would add
something:

The slice must be done very quickly. If you slow down, it
won't work properly.

So, hold the lame in position. Get it near the surface of
the dough. Look at the point you want the cut to end, and
then, zap!

It had to be done in a fraction of a second.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article .com>,
says...
>
> yetanotherBob wrote:
>
> > Is your lame really sharp? I bought one a few years ago, and ended up
> > using it to slice the tape on parcels and such. It wasn't really very
> > sharp when I got it, and I couldn't get it to take an edge as sharp as
> > most of my kitchen knives.
> >
> > Anymore, I just use one of those Olfa knives that are razor sharp and
> > easy to renew, just by snapping off a blade segment.
>
> That sounds like a good idea, I bought a lame recently, it's so simple
> though I feel a bit stupid even buying it, it's just a thin piece of
> metal like a 'rib' in a shirt collar but longer and thinner. It fits
> into the old fashioned razor blades, they're dirt cheap and keep the
> opened blades in a pencil case. I've also used a scalpel, I'm not sure
> which is better but the lame and razor blades feels safer somehow. I
> hate putting new blades on a scalpel. I keep that in the same pencil
> case, the tin kind you get with a set of pencils.
>
> It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer though. A
> sharpened knife quickly and confidently pulled across the top is very
> good too but you don't have so much control but I used that for a long,
> long time before experimenting with different blades just fine.
>
> Jim
>
>
Your post reminded me that I have a folding razor in a drawers
someplace, that takes those narrow single-edge blades that used to be
popular. A barber gave it to me decades ago so that I could experience
the joy of slicing my face and neck to shreds with a "straight razor"
without the added expense of actually buying one, getting the stones and
strops, etc. Now *that* thing would have made a good lame, had the idea
to use it as such ever occurred to me...

Bob

Jeff Miller wrote:

> At home, I assemble my lames from popcicle sticks (the leavings from my
> daughter's after-dinner treats over the summer, well-washed), some Krazy
> Glue (ask for it by name!) and a box of 100 double-sided straight razors
> that I bought for $5 at a corner convenience store (they call them "Spas" in
> Boston, I know not why).
>
> These poor-man's lames work well enough. But while I was visiting my parents
> over the holidays, I had none of the above. So I used a fairly heavy, wet
> serrated knife. Worked just as well!
>
> --
> Jeff Miller

Yeah, that's what I mean, the one I bought thought only a pound or two
but I could easily have done something similar. Here's a pic of the one
I got.
http://www.thebertinetkitchen.com/images/lames.jpg
Jim

On Jan 1, 11:15 am, "TG" > wrote:
> It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer though. A
> sharpened knife quickly and confidently pulled across the top is very
> good too but you don't have so much control but I used that for a long,
> long time before experimenting with different blades just fine.
>
> Jim

Thanks for the help. I wasn't the original poster, but I will benefit
as well.

How much do you let your dough dry off?
Russ

PastorDIC wrote:

> How much do you let your dough dry off?
> Russ

Hi Russ,

I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
around 3 hours.

Jim

On 15 Jan 2007 00:40:42 -0800, "TG" >
wrote:

>
>PastorDIC wrote:
>
>> How much do you let your dough dry off?
>> Russ
>
>Hi Russ,
>
>I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
>rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
>around 3 hours.
>
>Jim

Hi Jim,

I must be missing something...

You allow the dough to rise in a container, invert it, and
then allow it to dry for "3 hours"...?

Thanks for clarifying,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> On 15 Jan 2007 00:40:42 -0800, "TG" >
> wrote:
> > >I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
> > > rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
> > > around 3 hours.
> >
> >Jim
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I must be missing something...
>
> You allow the dough to rise in a container, invert it, and
> then allow it to dry for "3 hours"...?
>
> Thanks for clarifying,
> --
> Kenneth

I don't think it's what you're ''missing'' Kenneth, it's what you're
adding. : -) The only bit you got right was "3 hours". I can't imagine
how you invented the rest. You're the Doc Kenneth I'll let you work
that out. : -)
Linen cloths are nothing new
http://tinyurl.com/y5ph7t

Jim

Jim-
Kenneth isn't the only one that's confused. I am too.

Originally I asked about cutting the dough without tearing it and you
said "It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer
though. " I responded with

PastorDIC wrote:
> How much do you let your dough dry off?
> Russ

To which you responded

>Hi Russ,
>I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
>rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
>around 3 hours.
>Jim

Then Kenneth responded

>Jim
>Hi Jim,
>I must be missing something...
>You allow the dough to rise in a container, invert it, and
>then allow it to dry for "3 hours"...?
>Thanks for clarifying,


Can you see why Kenneth and I are confused? It looks like you are
saying you let the dough dry off for 3 hours before you slash the top.
Russ

"PastorDIC" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Originally I asked about cutting the dough without tearing it

all this confusion aside, a sharp blade (i use a razor blade) pulled
quickly and deliberately (don't baby fuss it, it will tear every time) will
solve the problem. remember the word is "slash" not drag ;-)

hutchndi

PastorDIC wrote:
> Jim-
> Kenneth isn't the only one that's confused. I am too.
>
> Originally I asked about cutting the dough without tearing it and you
> said "It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer
> though. " I responded with
>
> PastorDIC wrote:
> > How much do you let your dough dry off?
> > Russ
>
> To which you responded
>
> >Hi Russ,
> >I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
> >rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
> >around 3 hours.
> >Jim
>
> Then Kenneth responded
>
> >Jim
> >Hi Jim,
> >I must be missing something...
> >You allow the dough to rise in a container, invert it, and
> >then allow it to dry for "3 hours"...?
> >Thanks for clarifying,
>
>
> Can you see why Kenneth and I are confused? It looks like you are
> saying you let the dough dry off for 3 hours before you slash the top.
> Russ

Russ,

Kenneth hadn't missed anything, he's constructed in his mind a whole
sequence of events that I have never wrote down. For me to say I dry my
dough, implies that I have the intention and plan to dry my dough. That
is like saying a man taking antidepressants has intended to get hooked.
Getting 'hooked' is a side effect of some drugs. There is a big
difference. I would prefer my dough not to dry out when proofing but I
have found that there are some side effects of proofing the way that I
do that I can turn to my advantage.

If you read what is written and then ask further questions if you are
unclear fine but I do find it very frustrating when people twist or
misread what I say because from experience I then get a tirade of abuse
based on this false witness. I suppose you could say this is an natural
side effect of not preempting every possible misreading but I prefer a
simple approach to life and take responsibility only for my own
actions. I thought what I wrote and was quoted on numerous occasions
was quite clear and very simple. No mention of containers and
intentions to dry.

Jim

hutchndi wrote:
.... remember the word is "slash" not drag ;-)
>
> hutchndi

Or hack, as I have seen lately.

Jim

On 17 Jan 2007 00:51:20 -0800, "TG" >
wrote:

>
>PastorDIC wrote:
>> Jim-
>> Kenneth isn't the only one that's confused. I am too.
>>
>> Originally I asked about cutting the dough without tearing it and you
>> said "It really is so much easier if the skin of the dough is dryer
>> though. " I responded with
>>
>> PastorDIC wrote:
>> > How much do you let your dough dry off?
>> > Russ
>>
>> To which you responded
>>
>> >Hi Russ,
>> >I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
>> >rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
>> >around 3 hours.
>> >Jim
>>
>> Then Kenneth responded
>>
>> >Jim
>> >Hi Jim,
>> >I must be missing something...
>> >You allow the dough to rise in a container, invert it, and
>> >then allow it to dry for "3 hours"...?
>> >Thanks for clarifying,
>>
>>
>> Can you see why Kenneth and I are confused? It looks like you are
>> saying you let the dough dry off for 3 hours before you slash the top.
>> Russ
>
>Russ,
>
>Kenneth hadn't missed anything, he's constructed in his mind a whole
>sequence of events that I have never wrote down. For me to say I dry my
>dough, implies that I have the intention and plan to dry my dough. That
>is like saying a man taking antidepressants has intended to get hooked.
>Getting 'hooked' is a side effect of some drugs. There is a big
>difference. I would prefer my dough not to dry out when proofing but I
>have found that there are some side effects of proofing the way that I
>do that I can turn to my advantage.
>
>If you read what is written and then ask further questions if you are
>unclear fine but I do find it very frustrating when people twist or
>misread what I say because from experience I then get a tirade of abuse
>based on this false witness. I suppose you could say this is an natural
>side effect of not preempting every possible misreading but I prefer a
>simple approach to life and take responsibility only for my own
>actions. I thought what I wrote and was quoted on numerous occasions
>was quite clear and very simple. No mention of containers and
>intentions to dry.
>
>Jim

Hi Jim,

When I read your reaction, I laughed out loud...

I sincerely thank you,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:...> Hi Jim,
>
> When I read your reaction, I laughed out loud...
>
> I sincerely thank you,
> --
> Kenneth

Good, I thought you would realise I didn't mean any offense. : -)

Thanks Kenneth.

Jim

> PastorDIC wrote:
> > How much do you let your dough dry off?
> > Russ
>
> To which you responded
>
> >Hi Russ,
> >I proof in linen cloths these days so they dry as a matter of course
> >rather than it being my intention. But the answer to your question is
> >around 3 hours.
...
>
> Can you see why Kenneth and I are confused? It looks like you are
> saying you let the dough dry off for 3 hours before you slash the top.
> Russ

Since we're on the subject of not taking offence Russ.

How about next time you read a post you take it one step at a time.
Maybe then you won't get so confused. I really wouldn't give a stuff if
my loaves didn't dry out a bit in the linen. I'd still do it. Maybe the
subtlety is passing you by. Read it again after dinner. : -)

But mate, no offence. : -)

Jim