Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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Default Advice sought.

I am wanting to store some home made chilli sauce in jars (i've made
this sauce for about 20 years, but have always frozen it) despite many
hours of searching, I've been unable to find a guide of any sort on
how to achieve this (I want to use the type of lids that have the
safety button in the centre).

I know that the jars / lids i describe above create a vaccuum and that
the button in the lid is "sucked in", what i cant discover is how is
this achieved. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?.

All help gratefully received.

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On Jan 23, 3:58*am, wrote:
> I am wanting to store some home made chilli sauce in jars (i've made
> this sauce for about 20 years, but have always frozen it) despite many
> hours of searching, I've been unable to find a guide of any sort on
> how to achieve this (I want to use the type of lids that have the
> safety button in the centre).
>
> I know that the jars / lids i describe above create a vaccuum and that
> the button in the lid is "sucked in", what i cant discover is how is
> this achieved. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?.
>
> All help gratefully received.


Here's a good start:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_home.html

Or more particularly:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html

Essentially, you fill your jars leaving a bit of air space at the top,
then immerse them in a big pot of water. Bringing the water to the
boil heats up the contents of the jars, which (a) kills any
microorganisms in the food, and (b) makes the liquid in the jars
expand, forcing out some of that air frm the top of the jars. When
you remove the jars and let them cool the food contacts again, which
makes a partial vaccum that sucks the button on the lid in[1].

The procedure is very well documented and tested, and there are lots
of sites with information on exactly how many minutes of boiling you
need to do for different sizes of jars.

Happy to help!


BTH
[1] Technically the lid is "pushed in" by the higher-pressure air
outside the jar, but let's not nitpick. ;-)
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"BT Humble" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:58 am, wrote:
> I am wanting to store some home made chilli sauce in jars (i've made
> this sauce for about 20 years, but have always frozen it) despite many
> hours of searching, I've been unable to find a guide of any sort on
> how to achieve this (I want to use the type of lids that have the
> safety button in the centre).
>
> I know that the jars / lids i describe above create a vaccuum and that
> the button in the lid is "sucked in", what i cant discover is how is
> this achieved. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?.
>
> All help gratefully received.


Here's a good start:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_home.html

Or more particularly:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html

Essentially, you fill your jars leaving a bit of air space at the top,
then immerse them in a big pot of water. Bringing the water to the
boil heats up the contents of the jars, which (a) kills any
microorganisms in the food, and (b) makes the liquid in the jars
expand, forcing out some of that air frm the top of the jars. When
you remove the jars and let them cool the food contacts again, which
makes a partial vaccum that sucks the button on the lid in[1].

The procedure is very well documented and tested, and there are lots
of sites with information on exactly how many minutes of boiling you
need to do for different sizes of jars.

Happy to help!


BTH
[1] Technically the lid is "pushed in" by the higher-pressure air
outside the jar, but let's not nitpick. ;-)

Not nitpicking or anything, but one should use the tested recipes by either
the aforementioned boiling water bath method, or use a pressure *Canner*
(not necessarily a cooker). The bwb for high acid foods (and your chili
sauce may or may not qualify!) or the pressure canner for low acid
vegetables and all meat products.
Please follow USDA (or your local ag agent's) tested recipes. Don't
substitute until you got the science and method under your belt. Unless
y'all got a reliable pH meter. The one for the garden or pool does not
qualify. Probably.
And check out our FAQ when ol' Jack gets it back online. Somebody here may
have the pages saved as text. Got lots of good info, booklists, etc.

Ya'll come on back and visit and lurk and all, and let us know how you do.
We're a real civilized bunch. Where are you canning from? Country or
altitude? We gots people from all over.
Edrena in the high desert country


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On Jan 23, 2:38*am, "The Joneses" > wrote:
> "BT Humble" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 23, 3:58 am, wrote:
>
> > I am wanting to store some home made chilli sauce in jars (i've made
> > this sauce for about 20 years, but have always frozen it) despite many
> > hours of searching, I've been unable to find a guide of any sort on
> > how to achieve this (I want to use the type of lids that have the
> > safety button in the centre).

>
> > I know that the jars / lids i describe above create a vaccuum and that
> > the button in the lid is "sucked in", what i cant discover is how is
> > this achieved. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?.

>
> > All help gratefully received.

>
> Here's a good start:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_home.html
>
> Or more particularly:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html
>
> Essentially, you fill your jars leaving a bit of air space at the top,
> then immerse them in a big pot of water. Bringing the water to the
> boil heats up the contents of the jars, which (a) kills any
> microorganisms in the food, and (b) makes the liquid in the jars
> expand, forcing out some of that air frm the top of the jars. *When
> you remove the jars and let them cool the food contacts again, which
> makes a partial vaccum that sucks the button on the lid in[1].
>
> The procedure is very well documented and tested, and there are lots
> of sites with information on exactly how many minutes of boiling you
> need to do for different sizes of jars.
>
> Happy to help!
>
> BTH
> [1] Technically the lid is "pushed in" by the higher-pressure air
> outside the jar, but let's not nitpick. ;-)
>
> Not nitpicking or anything, but one should use the tested recipes by either
> the aforementioned boiling water bath method, or use a pressure *Canner*
> (not necessarily a cooker). The bwb for high acid foods (and your chili
> sauce may or may not qualify!) or the pressure canner for low acid
> vegetables and all meat products.
> * Please follow USDA (or your local ag agent's) tested recipes. Don't
> substitute until you got the science and method under your belt. Unless
> y'all got a reliable pH meter. The one for the garden or pool does not
> qualify. Probably.
> * And check out our FAQ when ol' Jack gets it back online. Somebody here may
> have the pages saved as text. Got lots of good info, booklists, etc.
>
> * Ya'll come on back and visit and lurk and all, and let us know how you do.
> We're a real civilized bunch. *Where are you canning from? Country or
> altitude? We gots people from all over.
> Edrena in the high desert country


Thank you for your detailed reply, however I had already visited the
sites you mention, but they weren't of much help, let me explain.

Virtually every site i have visited, is aimed at the American home
canner, and utilizes a two piece lid with a rubber ring. These things
are simply not available on the British market. What is available are
one piece lids, at websites like the following
http://www.ebottles.co.uk/showcap.asp?familyid=64 or
http://www.jbconline.co.uk/index.php...oducts _id=41

These are simple twist off lids, and i cannot find any advice
whatsoever on how to use these, even the manufacturers & distributors
will not offer any advice (afraid of legal action should something go
wrong i suspect).

I'm canning from here :-
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=...,0.001035&z=20



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Default Advice sought.

> > > I know that the jars / lids i describe above create a vaccuum
and that
> > > the button in the lid is "sucked in", what i cant discover is how is
> > > this achieved. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?.

>
> Thank you for your detailed reply, however I had already visited the
> sites you mention, but they weren't of much help, let me explain.
>
> Virtually every site i have visited, is aimed at the American home
> canner, and utilizes a two piece lid with a rubber ring. These things
> are simply not available on the British market. What is available are
> one piece lids, at websites like the followinghttp://www.ebottles.co.uk/showcap.asp?familyid=64orhttp://www.jbconline.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&...


I do jam with the single lid.

Sterilize the jars (boiling water -- oven), lids and utensils. The
seals will melt in the oven.

Pour boiling (just below) jam into the jars.

Leave a 1/2 to 1 inch head space.

Put on lids and screw tightly.

As the jam cools the a vacuum is created and the lid pops down
indicating a good seal.

This method has only recently been acknowledged on this list as being
used by small batch jam makers, as a "hot pack".

Chili doesn't last long around here; but I usually refrigerate or
freeze it. I don't have the same faith in a hot pack for meat as I do
for jam.




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> Pour boiling (just below) jam into the jars.
>
> Leave a 1/2 to 1 inch head space.
>
> Put on lids and screw tightly.
>
> As the jam cools the a vacuum is created and the lid pops down
> indicating a good seal.
>
> This method has only recently been acknowledged on this list as being
> used by small batch jam makers, as a "hot pack".


Thanks for that information, I had already tried a similar method,
just as an experiment, and it worked fine for me.
Sauce simmering away, jars sterilized in boiling water for ten
minutes, ditto the lids, jars moved to hot oven (120c) for further ten
minutes for drying, then removed, filled, lids fitted using magnetic
tool, then tightened, and allowed to cool.
>
> Chili doesn't last *long around here; but I usually refrigerate or
> freeze it. *I don't have the same faith in a hot pack for meat as I do
> for jam.


This Chilli doesn't have any meat content, it's a sauce/salsa,
determining shelf life is difficult, prety high up on my list of
things to do.





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> wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 2:38 am, "The Joneses" > wrote:
> "BT Humble" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 23, 3:58 am, wrote:
>
> > I am wanting to store some home made chilli sauce in jars

(clipped here n' there)

> Here's a good start:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_home.html
> Or more
> particularly:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html
>
>
> Not nitpicking or anything, but one should use the tested recipes by
> either
> the aforementioned boiling water bath method, or use a pressure *Canner*
> (not necessarily a cooker). The bwb for high acid foods (and your chili
> sauce may or may not qualify!) or the pressure canner for low acid
> vegetables and all meat products.


Thank you for your detailed reply, however I had already visited the
sites you mention, but they weren't of much help, let me explain.

Virtually every site i have visited, is aimed at the American home
canner, and utilizes a two piece lid with a rubber ring. These things
are simply not available on the British market. What is available are
one piece lids, at websites like the following
http://www.ebottles.co.uk/showcap.asp?familyid=64 or
http://www.jbconline.co.uk/index.php...oducts _id=41

These are simple twist off lids, and i cannot find any advice
whatsoever on how to use these, even the manufacturers & distributors
will not offer any advice (afraid of legal action should something go
wrong i suspect).

I'm canning from here :-
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=...,0.001035&z=20

Hah - up near the Scottish border, ar' ye? We have a couple correspondents
over the water there. Here's hoping they'll chime in.
Actually you and I have a similar problem. Please google back in this
group for my message "On Single Use One-Piece Jar/Lids" .
I haven't used any yet, been sick, but I plan to use them the same way I
would use one piece lids, being esp. careful to leave enuf room so the jars
don't clank together. I feel that the mechanical business of the seal should
go as planned. When one uses boiling water bath processing, clean hot jars
& lids are all that's necessary, as the bwb will sterilize the insides &
product & all. We mostly find it useful to store our clean jars for a batch
in the big stockpot we use for the bwb with perhaps the lids simmering in a
smaller pot on the back of the stove.
The very most important thing here is for you to decide whether to bwb or
pressure can your product. The acid reading is very important. I believe
there are enuf brewers on the Isle that you should be able to purchase a
brewer's pH meter (with calibration supplies or service). It will be worth
your life. The worst (most lethal/severe) of food borne pathogens, botulism,
needs a no oxygen, lower acid, room temp enviornment. Yes the cupboard full
of home canned stuff.
So. Hot pack was used for years and continues to be used for high acid
fruit products (not all fruits are high acid!). But it is not recommended by
our US Dept. of Agriculture, nor us. There are also molds that can invisibly
infect the wax seal business that also was used for years. It's not just the
mold, but the leetle mold feelers that you can't see that can make some
people extremely sick.
And never, never bwb veggies or meat. Y'all just asking to see The Pearly
Gates.
Pressure canning (and not the pressure cooker necessarily) is a horse of a
little different colo(u)r we will get into if you want.
Feel like posting your recipe? It may be alike enuf that we could *advise*
you what we would do. Most of us here are just experienced and not real food
scientists with buckets of test equipment. I would venture to say that your
chilli sauce and *my* chile sauce and some other Texan's chile sauce are all
very different things.
How'd I do?
Edrena




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wrote:
> Thank you for your detailed reply, however I had already visited the
> sites you mention, but they weren't of much help, let me explain.
>
> Virtually every site i have visited, is aimed at the American home
> canner, and utilizes a two piece lid with a rubber ring. These things
> are simply not available on the British market. What is available are
> one piece lids,


Mayonnaise jars? They work OK, I've preserved raw-packed peaches and
lots of jam in them without any real problems. If you're re-using
lids you get an occasional seal failure, so button-top lids are a good
idea.

I usually process them for 10 minutes in a boiling-water bath after
fillign the jars to get a good tight seal. It's important to only put
the lids on fingertip-tight, so that the air bubbles can escape.
Don't try to wring its neck when you put the lid on, or it'll blow off
in the canner and you'll have a big pot of thin chilli soup. ;-)

> These are simple twist off lids, and i cannot find any advice
> whatsoever on how to use these, even the manufacturers & distributors
> will not offer any advice (afraid of legal action should something go
> wrong i suspect).


The various health departments here (Australia) have been cracking
down on people selling home-made jams and pickles at fetes and such.
I can vaguely remember a case last year where a dozen people got sick
from a batch of something bought at a fete that wasn't properly
prepared. If you want to sell home-prepared stuff you now have to
have a commercial-grade kitchen AND a $5,000 insurance policy. :-/


BTH
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Sorry for the late reply to your post, I got tied up with something
else.

> Hah - up near the Scottish border, ar' ye? We have a couple correspondents
> over the water there. Here's hoping they'll chime in.


Scotlands about an hour and a quarter's drive, Londons 3 to 4, were a
VERY small country, on a map it looks like were close to Scotland, but
we never really think of it as such.


> Actually you and I have a similar problem. Please google back in this
> group for my message "On Single Use One-Piece Jar/Lids" .

Yes, i think we do have the same problems, i think I've "cracked it"
with them, and once I'm satisfied it works as planned, will post here
the way i do it.

> I haven't used any yet, been sick, but I plan to use them the same way I
> would use one piece lids, being esp. careful to leave enuf room so the jars
> don't clank together. I feel that the mechanical business of the seal should
> go as planned. When one uses boiling water bath processing, clean hot jars
> & lids are all that's necessary, as the bwb will sterilize the insides &
> product & all. We mostly find it useful to store our clean jars for a batch
> in the big stockpot we use for the bwb with perhaps the lids simmering in a
> smaller pot on the back of the stove.



Similar, but not the way i plan to do it.

> The very most important thing here is for you to decide whether to bwb or
> pressure can your product. The acid reading is very important. I believe
> there are enuf brewers on the Isle that you should be able to purchase a
> brewer's pH meter (with calibration supplies or service). It will be worth
> your life. The worst (most lethal/severe) of food borne pathogens, botulism,
> needs a no oxygen, lower acid, room temp enviornment. Yes the cupboard full
> of home canned stuff.


Yes, a decent pH meter is planned.

> So. Hot pack was used for years and continues to be used for high acid
> fruit products (not all fruits are high acid!). But it is not recommended by
> our US Dept. of Agriculture, nor us. There are also molds that can invisibly
> infect the wax seal business that also was used for years. It's not just the
> mold, but the leetle mold feelers that you can't see that can make some
> people extremely sick.
> And never, never bwb veggies or meat. Y'all just asking to see The Pearly
> Gates.


Hmm, my recipie uses veg (onions, peppers), I hadn't planned to
pressure cook them.



> Pressure canning (and not the pressure cooker necessarily) is a horse of a
> little different colo(u)r we will get into if you want.



I think i may have to.

> Feel like posting your recipe? It may be alike enuf that we could *advise*
> you what we would do. Most of us here are just experienced and not real food
> scientists with buckets of test equipment. I would venture to say that your
> chilli sauce and *my* chile sauce and some other Texan's chile sauce are all
> very different things.


Yes, my chilli sauce is different from just about any other, not just
the ingredients, but the heat.

In the UK we have a lot of "Indian" restaurants, I'm not sure if you
have as many (or even any) in your country, but over here most towns
have a number of restaurants, and an even higher number of takeaways.

They are renowned for making hot curries, a vindaloo is generally
considered the hottest most people will try, but for the total sadist
there is something even hotter (at least in our area) called a "Phal",
generally these are only (attempted to be) eaten by a) idiots, b)
drunks , c) true chilli heads

One of my friends falls into category C, and only ever eats a "Phal",
he tells me that my Chilli Sauce is of a similar heat.


> How'd I do?

Hey, not bad .

> Edrena


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> wrote in message
...
>
>> And never, never bwb veggies or meat. Y'all just asking to see The
>> Pearly
>> Gates.

>
> Hmm, my recipie uses veg (onions, peppers), I hadn't planned to
> pressure cook them.
>
>
>
>> Pressure canning (and not the pressure cooker necessarily) is a horse
>> of a
>> little different colo(u)r we will get into if you want.

>
>
> I think i may have to.
>


Depends on what else is in your recipe. The key is the acidity, so if your
recipe also includes vinegar or lemon juice or something else really acidic,
you may be fine with bwb. (Then again, you may not, so the relative
quantities are important.)

Take green beans, for example. If you're canning green beans by themselves
you MUST pressure can them. But if you make Pickled Green Beans, you're
okay bwb-ing them, since the vinegar used to pickle the beans raises the
acidity enough to prevent botulism.

I make a lot of salsas in the summertime. All my recipes include onions and
peppers, and they all are approved for bwb processing, since they also
contain vinegar in sufficient quantities to be acidic enough to can that
way.

Anny




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> wrote in message
...
(clipped a lot>
> One of my friends falls into category C, and only ever eats a "Phal",
> he tells me that my Chilli Sauce is of a similar heat.
>
>
>> How'd I do?

> Hey, not bad .
>
>> Edrena

>


Glad I could help amig(a/o which you be?)
We eat lotsa very hot peppers here and there in the US, and esp. here in the
southwest. And yes, ethnic restaurants of various types here & there also,
esp. in big cities.
A word - just because it's spicy hot don't mean it's acidic enuf for the
bwb. It may be that your salsa just needs a teaspoonsful of citric acid
(sour salt) or lime/lemon juice to bring it up to speed. Post the recipe,
if you will.
Edrena


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> wrote in message
...
> Pour boiling (just below) jam into the jars.
>
> Leave a 1/2 to 1 inch head space.
>
> Put on lids and screw tightly.
>
> As the jam cools the a vacuum is created and the lid pops down
> indicating a good seal.
>
> This method has only recently been acknowledged on this list as being
> used by small batch jam makers, as a "hot pack".


Thanks for that information, I had already tried a similar method,
just as an experiment, and it worked fine for me.
Sauce simmering away, jars sterilized in boiling water for ten
minutes, ditto the lids, jars moved to hot oven (120c) for further ten
minutes for drying, then removed, filled, lids fitted using magnetic
tool, then tightened, and allowed to cool.
>
> Chili doesn't last long around here; but I usually refrigerate or
> freeze it. I don't have the same faith in a hot pack for meat as I do
> for jam.


This Chilli doesn't have any meat content, it's a sauce/salsa,
determining shelf life is difficult, prety high up on my list of
things to do.

I have made hot sauces for years. I generally have 4 or 5 scattered around
the kitchen. Generally I dont have any problems with them, although
ocassionally the peach or mango blends will fizz up if the ph isnt low
enough.
A Ph. meter would be a good investment for me. I tend to cook by taste and
hunches sometimes the sauce has a vinegar taste that I try to avoid




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"Mike" > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> I have made hot sauces for years. I generally have 4 or 5 scattered
> around the kitchen. Generally I dont have any problems with them,
> although ocassionally the peach or mango blends will fizz up if the ph
> isnt low enough.
> A Ph. meter would be a good investment for me. I tend to cook by taste
> and hunches sometimes the sauce has a vinegar taste that I try to avoid


I have a bottle of Mike's "Django Heat." Doesn't taste vinegary to me. It
sits out on my table. Shown in lower right of last night's dinner.

http://www.tinypic.info/files/3qhc6eqnps5wu2j3q1ww.jpg

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
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"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike" > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> I have made hot sauces for years. I generally have 4 or 5 scattered
>> around the kitchen. Generally I dont have any problems with them,
>> although ocassionally the peach or mango blends will fizz up if the ph
>> isnt low enough.
>> A Ph. meter would be a good investment for me. I tend to cook by taste
>> and hunches sometimes the sauce has a vinegar taste that I try to avoid

>
> I have a bottle of Mike's "Django Heat." Doesn't taste vinegary to me. It
> sits out on my table. Shown in lower right of last night's dinner.
>
> http://www.tinypic.info/files/3qhc6eqnps5wu2j3q1ww.jpg
>


interesting looking pile of food you had there - kinda makes me hungry (but
only a little bit, as I'm a big pussy when it comes to hot stuff ) - what
was it?

Kathi


> --
> Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
> families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
> Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
> Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061



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"Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
> > "Mike" > wrote:
> >> [ . . . ]
> >> I have made hot sauces for years. I generally have 4 or 5 scattered
> >> around the kitchen. Generally I dont have any problems with them,
> >> although ocassionally the peach or mango blends will fizz up if the ph
> >> isnt low enough.
> >> A Ph. meter would be a good investment for me. I tend to cook by
> >> taste and hunches sometimes the sauce has a vinegar taste that I try
> >> to avoid

> >
> > I have a bottle of Mike's "Django Heat." Doesn't taste vinegary to me.
> > It sits out on my table. Shown in lower right of last night's dinner.
> >
> > http://www.tinypic.info/files/3qhc6eqnps5wu2j3q1ww.jpg


> interesting looking pile of food you had there - kinda makes me hungry
> (but only a little bit, as I'm a big pussy when it comes to hot stuff )
> - what was it?


Thanks, Kathi. Fried Polish sausage, green Serrano peppers, mushrooms,
garlic, onion, eggs, FGBP and Mike's "Django Heat."

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061


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"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
>> > "Mike" > wrote:
>> >> [ . . . ]
>> >> I have made hot sauces for years. I generally have 4 or 5 scattered
>> >> around the kitchen. Generally I dont have any problems with them,
>> >> although ocassionally the peach or mango blends will fizz up if the ph
>> >> isnt low enough.
>> >> A Ph. meter would be a good investment for me. I tend to cook by
>> >> taste and hunches sometimes the sauce has a vinegar taste that I try
>> >> to avoid
>> >
>> > I have a bottle of Mike's "Django Heat." Doesn't taste vinegary to me.
>> > It sits out on my table. Shown in lower right of last night's dinner.
>> >
>> > http://www.tinypic.info/files/3qhc6eqnps5wu2j3q1ww.jpg

>
>> interesting looking pile of food you had there - kinda makes me hungry
>> (but only a little bit, as I'm a big pussy when it comes to hot stuff )
>> - what was it?

>
> Thanks, Kathi. Fried Polish sausage, green Serrano peppers, mushrooms,
> garlic, onion, eggs, FGBP and Mike's "Django Heat."


I thought I saw sausage, eggs and peppers in there! Sounds good!


>
> --
> Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
> families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
> Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
> Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061



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This is just an update for the group in general, and Edrena in
particular.

After much researching i finally discovered how to use the lids the
original post was about, I've even three different ways of doing it,
so here they are.

1) With cold sauce (all examples should work with ANYTHING you plan to
store in jars) inject steam into the headspace, then quickly fit the
lid.
I use a small pressure/steam cleaner (the sort you might use for
cleaning the kitchen with) and inject the steam directly into the
headspace. Within a couple of minutes you will hear the button pull
down.

2) Hot fill the jar with the product as soon as it is cooked, dont
cool, just fill and fit the lid.

3) Fill jar with uncooked product, fit lid and tighten, put in
pressure cooker and cook as you would normally, once time is up,
release pressure as quickly as possible (i cool cooker under cold
water) remove jars, put into fridge to cool rapidly.

1 is simplest, even steam from a kettle can do this, 3 is best really,
as everything is sterilised in one go.

Also an update on my sauce, it is undergoing microbiological analysis
right now, I do need to lower the pH slightly, (already lowered from
4.6 to 4.0) going to add more citric acid to do this. One problem with
this is it gives the sauce a slightly "tartiness" taste, does anyone
have any advice on how to offset this ?.
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> wrote in message
...
> This is just an update for the group in general, and Edrena in
> particular.
>
> After much researching i finally discovered how to use the lids the
> original post was about, I've even three different ways of doing it,
> so here they are.
>
> 1) With cold sauce (all examples should work with ANYTHING you plan to
> store in jars) inject steam into the headspace, then quickly fit the
> lid.
> I use a small pressure/steam cleaner (the sort you might use for
> cleaning the kitchen with) and inject the steam directly into the
> headspace. Within a couple of minutes you will hear the button pull
> down.
>
> 2) Hot fill the jar with the product as soon as it is cooked, dont
> cool, just fill and fit the lid.
>
> 3) Fill jar with uncooked product, fit lid and tighten, put in
> pressure cooker and cook as you would normally, once time is up,
> release pressure as quickly as possible (i cool cooker under cold
> water) remove jars, put into fridge to cool rapidly.
>
> 1 is simplest, even steam from a kettle can do this, 3 is best really,
> as everything is sterilised in one go.
>
> Also an update on my sauce, it is undergoing microbiological analysis
> right now, I do need to lower the pH slightly, (already lowered from
> 4.6 to 4.0) going to add more citric acid to do this. One problem with
> this is it gives the sauce a slightly "tartiness" taste, does anyone
> have any advice on how to offset this ?.


Dear Chilli - you still don't quite get all the principals. Getting the damn
jar to seal is just a start.
You seem to be contemplating a commercial operation, so different, more
extensive and expensive rules will apply. Your local health dept is your
buddy there and I commend you on getting the lab studies.
If you use your steam injection or hot pack method (which are not approved
for home use in the US) or if you plan on using the boiling water bath
processing then you *need* the lower pH. The germs won't live & reproduce
under the high acid conditions.The bwb is a easy, short, heat'em up and does
not reach greater temps.
If you use the pressure canner, then you don't need to lower the pH,
because you will be heating the contents and jars under pressure, usually
10#, evenly and continuously, which allows for much higher temps to be
reached, and you get actual sterilization.
Everything I've read says that when you pressure can a mixture of less
acidic product, then pressure can for the longest of the veggies, usually
about 75 minutes at 10#, sea level for pints, for example. And everything
I've read says NOT to bring the pressure canner's temp down quickly as you
described. Good way to crack the jars.
Check out these pages:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can4_vegetable.html
and
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/...egetables.html
and ESPECIALLY:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html
Perhaps our friend George and some of the others who pressure can a lot
will chime in here.
Edrena


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> wrote in message
...
> This is just an update for the group in general, and Edrena in
> particular.
>

I just re-read my earlier post and apologize if I were overly fussy. I know
I should not correspond before seeing the bottom of my first cup of coffee.
I do worry about folks, our city having had a terrible outbreak of food
poisoning some years ago from restaurant workers who did not understand the
principals of food preservation. No, wasn't me, but when ever I made stuff
for sale, those ghosts weren't far from my mind.
Keep up the good work,
Edrena


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> Dear Chilli - you still don't quite get all the principals.

I do, just didn't explain everything in detail.

>Getting the damn jar to seal is just a start.
> * You seem to be contemplating a commercial operation, so different, more
> extensive and expensive rules will apply. Your local health dept is your
> buddy there and I commend you on getting the lab studies.


Yes, theyre already involved, and aware (called enviromental health
department in the UK). What I've never explained is that i already
run a registered catering business, have HACCP procedures in place,
and was recently given a top award for my practices, this new venture
is slightly different, but only in so much as that this time i'm
packing for later use, not immediate use.

> * If you use your steam injection or hot pack method (which are not approved
> for home use in the US) or if you plan on using the boiling water bath
> processing then you *need* the lower pH.


I'm not going to be using bwb, but still need the lower pH, certain
bacteria can grow below a pH of 3.8. Also every "chilli sauce" on our
market (UK) has a pH of 3.8 or below, i'm going to follow suit.

>The germs won't live & reproduce
> under the high acid conditions.The bwb is a easy, short, heat'em up and does
> not reach greater temps.
> * If you use the pressure canner, then you don't need to lower the pH,
> because you will be heating the contents and jars under pressure, usually
> 10#, evenly and continuously, which allows for much higher temps to be
> reached, and you get actual sterilization.


Yes, i know that, but as described above i need a pH of 3.6, once
opened I need a shelf life of two weeks refrigerated, hence also
lowering the pH. The reason I have opted to use the pressure cooking
method is that under normal cooking conditions, it takes 5 hours of
simmering to cook the sauce, but testing has shown that by using
pressure cooking, that time is reduced to 20 minutes (it's a bit more
complicated than that, but in a nutshell thats how it works out, I
just have to process a few batches.)

> * Everything I've read says that when you pressure can a mixture of less
> acidic product, then pressure can for the longest of the veggies, usually
> about 75 minutes at 10#, sea level for pints, for example.


With having the pH down, 15 minutes is enough for my sauce.

>And everything
> I've read says NOT to bring the pressure canner's temp down quickly as you
> described. Good way to crack the jars.


I'm bringing the temp down at the recomendation of the company
microbiologically analysing the sauce. So far I've not had any jars
crack, I let the pressure cooker cool for 5 mins, then cool under cold
water, then open the lid and take the jars and place them in the
fridge, there is no massive sudden reduction in temperature. Your
comment makes sense, and i must admit i was cautious about following
the advice given by them, but it does seem to work ok.

> * Check out these pages:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can4_vegetable.html
> and
> *http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/...egetables.html
> and ESPECIALLY:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html
> * Perhaps our friend George and some of the others who pressure can a lot
> will chime in here.


I dont use fresh tomatoes, I use canned ones, they have also been pH
treated by the manufacturer.

I know i dont need BOTH a low pH, and to pressure cook, but in this
instance a low pH is needed, and by also pressure cooking i reduce the
cooking times, get the benefit of sterilisation, and feel happier
having two systems (pH & sterilisation) to help ensure the safety of
the product.

The downside of lowering the pH so much is that i can taste a slight
inital lemon taste (it is soon washed away by the other ingredients),
but i would still like to reduce this lemon taste if possible.

Always glad of any input and advice.
> Edrena



I've been advised to purchase an autoclave, and may do this in the
near future, this will allow me to automate the procedure a little.
eventually if everything goes according to plan, a commerical pressure
cooker will be sought.



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> wrote in message
...

> Dear Chilli - you still don't quite get all the principals.

I do, just didn't explain everything in detail.

>Getting the damn jar to seal is just a start.
> You seem to be contemplating a commercial operation, so different, more
> extensive and expensive rules will apply. Your local health dept is your
> buddy there and I commend you on getting the lab studies.


Yes, theyre already involved, and aware (called enviromental health
department in the UK). What I've never explained is that i already
run a registered catering business, have HACCP procedures in place,
and was recently given a top award for my practices, this new venture
is slightly different, but only in so much as that this time i'm
packing for later use, not immediate use.

> If you use your steam injection or hot pack method (which are not approved
> for home use in the US) or if you plan on using the boiling water bath
> processing then you *need* the lower pH.


I'm not going to be using bwb, but still need the lower pH, certain
bacteria can grow below a pH of 3.8. Also every "chilli sauce" on our
market (UK) has a pH of 3.8 or below, i'm going to follow suit.

>The germs won't live & reproduce
> under the high acid conditions.The bwb is a easy, short, heat'em up and
> does
> not reach greater temps.
> If you use the pressure canner, then you don't need to lower the pH,
> because you will be heating the contents and jars under pressure, usually
> 10#, evenly and continuously, which allows for much higher temps to be
> reached, and you get actual sterilization.


Yes, i know that, but as described above i need a pH of 3.6, once
opened I need a shelf life of two weeks refrigerated, hence also
lowering the pH. The reason I have opted to use the pressure cooking
method is that under normal cooking conditions, it takes 5 hours of
simmering to cook the sauce, but testing has shown that by using
pressure cooking, that time is reduced to 20 minutes (it's a bit more
complicated than that, but in a nutshell thats how it works out, I
just have to process a few batches.)

> Everything I've read says that when you pressure can a mixture of less
> acidic product, then pressure can for the longest of the veggies, usually
> about 75 minutes at 10#, sea level for pints, for example.


With having the pH down, 15 minutes is enough for my sauce.

>And everything
> I've read says NOT to bring the pressure canner's temp down quickly as you
> described. Good way to crack the jars.


I'm bringing the temp down at the recomendation of the company
microbiologically analysing the sauce. So far I've not had any jars
crack, I let the pressure cooker cool for 5 mins, then cool under cold
water, then open the lid and take the jars and place them in the
fridge, there is no massive sudden reduction in temperature. Your
comment makes sense, and i must admit i was cautious about following
the advice given by them, but it does seem to work ok.

> Check out these pages:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can4_vegetable.html
> and
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/...egetables.html
> and ESPECIALLY:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html
> Perhaps our friend George and some of the others who pressure can a lot
> will chime in here.


I dont use fresh tomatoes, I use canned ones, they have also been pH
treated by the manufacturer.

I know i dont need BOTH a low pH, and to pressure cook, but in this
instance a low pH is needed, and by also pressure cooking i reduce the
cooking times, get the benefit of sterilisation, and feel happier
having two systems (pH & sterilisation) to help ensure the safety of
the product.

The downside of lowering the pH so much is that i can taste a slight
inital lemon taste (it is soon washed away by the other ingredients),
but i would still like to reduce this lemon taste if possible.

Always glad of any input and advice.
> Edrena



I've been advised to purchase an autoclave, and may do this in the
near future, this will allow me to automate the procedure a little.
eventually if everything goes according to plan, a commerical pressure
cooker will be sought.


Sounds like you're a busy lady! Where in the UK are you? My husband is
from London and I'm from Stranraer.


--
mompeagram
FERGUS/HARLINGEN

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On Mar 2, 10:10*pm, "The Joneses" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...> This is just an update for the group in general, and Edrena in
> > particular.

>
> I just re-read my earlier post and apologize if I were overly fussy.

But how can we reach perfection if we are not ?, I'd sooner someone
was a little fussy, rather than complacent. I've dismissed employee's
in the past before for not being bothered about what they were doing
or serving.

> I know
> I should not correspond before seeing the bottom of my first cup of coffee.

I'm just taking mine right now.

> I do worry about folks, our city having had a terrible outbreak of food
> poisoning some years ago from restaurant workers who did not understand the
> principals of food preservation.


I've had a lot to learn over the last few weeks, but have more than
grasped the basics. I do however still have one book to read from
cover to cover. I agree though that we have to be very aware of any
potential hazards (thats what HACCP systems are for). Typical opening
hours for me are from 9am until 3pm, in that time (on a typically busy
day) I expect so serve something like 500 to 800 customers.

>No, wasn't me, but when ever I made stuff
> for sale, those ghosts weren't far from my mind.


Yes, a good thing to keep in mind.
> Keep up the good work,


Thanks

> Edrena


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In article >,
"mom peagram" > wrote:

> The downside of lowering the pH so much is that i can taste a slight
> inital lemon taste (it is soon washed away by the other ingredients),
> but i would still like to reduce this lemon taste if possible.


Use citric acid instead of lemon juice. Or in addition to, if lemon
juice is part of your formula (but not in sufficient quantity as to
lower the pH to your desired level). You get the pucker without the
flavor. Do some tests to find out how much you need to lower the pH
sufficiently. You can offset the *taste* of the acid with sugar in one
form or another.

I can buy citric acid crystals from a candy-making supply store and at
my local food cooperative.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."
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> Use citric acid instead of lemon juice. *

I do use citric acid, alternatives could be (as well as lemon juice)
are lactic acid and acetic acid, but citric is readily available so i
use that.

>Or in addition to, if lemon
> juice is part of your formula (but not in sufficient quantity as to
> lower the pH to your desired level).

*
I don't use lemon juice at all.

>You get the pucker without the
> flavor. Do some tests to find out how much you need to lower the pH
> sufficiently. *You can offset the *taste* of the acid with sugar in one
> form or another.


I am using an equal amount of sugar to try and reduce the "tartiness"
of the Citric, I dont want to use too much sugar as this can offset
the heat slightly, I was hoping someone would know of an alternative
to sugar.

I've purchased just about every similar type of produc on the market
over here, and the vast majority have a sour or bitter taste to them,
I want to avoid that at all costs.

I've also run blind tests where samples of 5 other sauces and mine are
given to subjects, and theyre asked to point out what they prefer.

Mine won the heat contest hands down in each and every case, and in
most cases the taste test too.
>
> I can buy citric acid crystals from a candy-making supply store and at
> my local food cooperative.


Theyre available at Wilkinsons in the UK, but only from the
information desk, drug users/dealer use citric acid to bulk out their
poduct (heroin i think)

Thanks for the input.

> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJhttp://web.me.com/barbschaller
> "What you say about someone else says more
> about you than it does about the other person."


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> Sounds like you're a busy lady!

NO, I am most definitley NOT a busy lady, I am a busy man though ROFL.

>*Where in the UK are you? *My husband is
> from London and I'm from Stranraer.


I'm in the North East, the rest of the country would think of me as a
Geordie, I'm not, you have to be from Newcastle for that, I'm about 30
miles or so from there. I can understand MOST of what they say
though.
>
> --
> mompeagram
> FERGUS/HARLINGEN




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> wrote in message
...
(clipped for brevity)

> Use citric acid instead of lemon juice.

I do use citric acid, alternatives could be (as well as lemon juice)
are lactic acid and acetic acid, but citric is readily available so i
use that.

I am using an equal amount of sugar to try and reduce the "tartiness"
of the Citric, I dont want to use too much sugar as this can offset
the heat slightly, I was hoping someone would know of an alternative
to sugar.

I've purchased just about every similar type of produc on the market
over here, and the vast majority have a sour or bitter taste to them,
I want to avoid that at all costs.

I've also run blind tests where samples of 5 other sauces and mine are
given to subjects, and theyre asked to point out what they prefer.

Mine won the heat contest hands down in each and every case, and in
most cases the taste test too.
>
> I can buy citric acid crystals from a candy-making supply store and at
> my local food cooperative.


Theyre available at Wilkinsons in the UK, but only from the
information desk, drug users/dealer use citric acid to bulk out their
poduct (heroin i think)

: Sir Chilli,
You might call around to Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/Jewish grocers for
"sour salt" which is citric acid. I get mine at such a shop, and it's very
reasonable in price.
Edrena



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> : Sir Chilli,
> You might call around to Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/Jewish grocers for
> "sour salt" which is citric acid. I get mine at such a shop, and it's very
> reasonable in price.
> Edrena


We don't have such things as "Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/Jewish"
grocers, not where i live, nor in the immediate vicinity, not that i
know of anyway.

I know we speak and write the same language, but the differences in
culture are just amazing, things that you are able to take for
granted, often just dont exist over here. Things that we take for
granted as well, everyday things, will no doubt stump you as well.

You even sit on the wrong side of the car to drive, and then go and
drive on the wrong side of the road as well.

I can purchase 500g (of citric) for 70p & the shop is in the nearest
town maybe 10 minutes drive away. I've also found a supplier for
25kilos of the stuff, that was reasonable in price too.



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On Mar 4, 8:26*pm, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I've purchased just about every similar type of produc on the market
> > over here, and the vast majority have a sour or bitter taste to them,
> > I want to avoid that at all costs.

>
> You may be receiving a message from the universe.
>
> B/


Pardon ?, i dont understand what you mean, care to expand.
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> wrote in message
...
>> : Sir Chilli,
>> You might call around to Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/Jewish grocers for
>> "sour salt" which is citric acid. I get mine at such a shop, and it's
>> very
>> reasonable in price.
>> Edrena

>
> We don't have such things as "Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/Jewish"
> grocers, not where i live, nor in the immediate vicinity, not that i
> know of anyway.
>
> I know we speak and write the same language, but the differences in
> culture are just amazing, things that you are able to take for
> granted, often just dont exist over here. Things that we take for
> granted as well, everyday things, will no doubt stump you as well.
>
> You even sit on the wrong side of the car to drive, and then go and
> drive on the wrong side of the road as well.
>
> I can purchase 500g (of citric) for 70p & the shop is in the nearest
> town maybe 10 minutes drive away. I've also found a supplier for
> 25kilos of the stuff, that was reasonable in price too.
>

Been there - first tour was stationed in small German town where buying
peanut butter was a luxury, quite like petrol, also 4x more expensive. But I
loved it, the travelling, the new culture, and most of my neighbors.
Edrena




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> There may be a reason why all the same types of "product" have a sour or
> bitter taste to them.

Youre probably correct, it's to lower the pH, the way they have done
it makes it inedible in my opinion.

I suspect they dont pressure cook as well, I've been in discussion
with a company that specialises in microbiological analysis, and the
feedback from them is that the more systems i put in place to prevent
the growth of spores the better.

I should have a report back within a few days, will be better placed
to see if what I'm doing is successful then.

>
> Home canning (which is the focus of this group, as well as other types
> of home preserving) is very different from commercial endeavors for profit.


Not that much different, the underlying science is the same, the way a
commercial operator processes the food is also ** in a lot of cases**
very similar to home canning, bigger machinery, and automated of
course, but the underlying principles are very much the same.

I'm willing to be corrected though .

One possibility I am exploring, thats not available to the home
canner, is high pressure cooking, this will be ideal for my sauce,
unfortunatley at the moment the equipment is far too expensive for me
to purchase, but I will be exploring the possibility in the near
future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_pr...d_preservation
for anyone who is interested.



>
> B/


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wrote:
> > There may be a reason why all the same types of "product" have a sour
> > or bitter taste to them.

> Youre probably correct, it's to lower the pH, the way they have done
> it makes it inedible in my opinion.


The best commercial hot sauce I've found, to date, is Amazon's Very Hot
Habanero sauce. It lasts quite well after being opened and kept at room
temperature. I can't stand Tabasco® sauce (except in a Bloody Mary)! The
best are the homemade Thai hot sauces by my wife, Jun. Hot, tasty, all
different. They don't have to last long, because they don't! ;-)

> I suspect they don't pressure cook as well, I've been in discussion
> with a company that specialises in microbiological analysis, and the
> feedback from them is that the more systems i put in place to prevent
> the growth of spores the better.


I hope the prevention isn't sporadic. ;-D

> I should have a report back within a few days, will be better placed
> to see if what I'm doing is successful then.


> > Home canning (which is the focus of this group, as well as other types
> > of home preserving) is very different from commercial endeavors for
> > profit.

>
> Not that much different, the underlying science is the same, the way a
> commercial operator processes the food is also **in a lot of cases**
> very similar to home canning. Bigger machinery, and automated of
> course, but the underlying principles are very much the same.
>
> I'm willing to be corrected though .
>
> One possibility I am exploring, that's not available to the home
> canner, is high pressure cooking. This will be ideal for my sauce.
> Unfortunatley at the moment the equipment is far too expensive for me
> to purchase, but I will be exploring the possibility in the near
> future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_pr...d_preservation
> for anyone who is interested.


Very interesting.

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In article > ,
Brian Mailman > wrote:

> wrote:
> >> There may be a reason why all the same types of "product" have a
> >> sour or bitter taste to them.

> > Youre probably correct, it's to lower the pH, the way they have done
> > it makes it inedible in my opinion.

>
> In a commercial, for-profit endeavor, this could very well be the way to
> do it feasibly.
>
> It's what I meant by "the universe may be sending you a message."
>
> >> Home canning (which is the focus of this group, as well as other
> >> types of home preserving) is very different from commercial
> >> endeavors for profit.

> >
> > Not that much different, the underlying science is the same...

>
> The science may be the same, but the scale is different.
>
> Because the scale is different, techniques are different, and equipment
> is different.
>
> Ask Barb if her recipes are that are produced commercially are the exact
> same ones that she made in her kitchen.


You rang, Sir? How may I serve you?

Actually, the ingredients in the Cherry Preserves (jam) that the Gedney
folks make are the same: Sugar, sour cherries, fruit pectin, citric
acid. Their food scientist may have done some tinkering with the
measures because what they are interested in reproducing is the taste of
the blue ribbon winner. They do a stellar job with the Cherry
Preserves. Positively outstanding. Better than my own.

If I remember correctly (and I may not ‹ it's been 13 years) they
adjusted the amount of sugar in my Peach Melba Jam in order to conform
to the FDA standard for a jam product. Then they offset that sweetness
some by the addition of more (?) citric acid. When they were
formulating my recipe for commercial distribution, I tasted three
versions before I said, "This is the one."

When they manufacture the blue ribbon pickle recipes for commercial
distribution, they make more changes, I think -- some preservatives; I
don't know about coloring agents. Bob has commented about the
additions that are not of a home kitchen. That's for shelf stability, I
think, to meet their business plan for the product and to make the FDA
regulations. I think.

> As I said--there's probably a very good reason there are
> flavors/textures you find objectionable in all other products similar to
> yours.
>
> B/




--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."


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> wrote in message
...
>
> Also an update on my sauce, it is undergoing microbiological analysis
> right now, I do need to lower the pH slightly, (already lowered from
> 4.6 to 4.0) going to add more citric acid to do this. One problem with
> this is it gives the sauce a slightly "tartiness" taste, does anyone
> have any advice on how to offset this ?.


Others have mentioned adding sugar, but I can understand why you might not
want to add too much.

Adding more salt might also help -- but then you may have the problem of the
sauce tasting too salty. A balance of sugar and salt might possibly work.

Anny


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On 11 Mar, 17:39, "Anny Middon" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Also an update on my sauce, it is undergoing microbiological analysis
> > right now, I do need to lower the pH slightly, (already lowered from
> > 4.6 to 4.0) going to add more citric acid to do this. One problem with
> > this is it gives the sauce a slightly "tartiness" taste, does anyone
> > have any advice on how to offset this ?.

>
> Others have mentioned adding sugar, but I can understand why you might not
> want to add too much.
>
> Adding more salt might also help -- but then you may have the problem of the
> sauce tasting too salty. *A balance of sugar and salt might possibly work.
>
> Anny


Sugar is already added, and equal amount to the citric.

Salt is a possibility, but I'd rather not do that if possible.

One more thing i read somewhere was to use mustard, apparently it
offsets the citric.

I read it late one evening after a 16 hour shift at work was very
tired, and may have misunderstood / misread the piece, but it's one
thing I'll be exploring if the analysis shows up a problem.

Speaking of the analysis, it will be completed today, I should have
the report by Monday.
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On Mar 13, 1:05*pm, wrote:
> On 11 Mar, 17:39, "Anny Middon" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > wrote in message

>
> ....

>
> > > Also an update on my sauce, it is undergoing microbiological analysis
> > > right now, I do need to lower the pH slightly, (already lowered from
> > > 4.6 to 4.0) going to add more citric acid to do this. One problem with
> > > this is it gives the sauce a slightly "tartiness" taste, does anyone
> > > have any advice on how to offset this ?.

>
> > Others have mentioned adding sugar, but I can understand why you might not
> > want to add too much.

>
> > Adding more salt might also help -- but then you may have the problem of the
> > sauce tasting too salty. *A balance of sugar and salt might possibly work.

>
> > Anny

>
> Sugar is already added, and equal amount to the citric.
>
> Salt is a possibility, but I'd rather not do that if possible.
>
> One more thing i read somewhere was to use mustard, apparently it
> offsets the citric.
>
> I read it late one evening after a 16 hour shift at work was very
> tired, and may have misunderstood / misread the piece, but it's one
> thing I'll be exploring if the analysis shows up a problem.
>
> Speaking of the analysis, it will be completed today, I should have
> the report by Monday.


Report came back on Monday, all ten tests performed were absolutley
fine.

Thankfully it shows my processes are working as they were designed to
do.
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> wrote in message
...

(CLIPPED)
Report came back on Monday, all ten tests performed were absolutley
fine.

Thankfully it shows my processes are working as they were designed to
do.

Dear Chili
Yeeeehaaa! Which are Texan for Jolly Good Show and Well Done, old chap.
Lots of right thinkin' and adaptin' and chemistry and recipe makin' for
you (& your team?).
Best of luck,
Edrena


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