Is it safe to can a home recipe for tomato sauce as long as it is
pressure canned (with two tbsps of lemon juice added per Litre)? No
meat involved, just tomatoes, olive oil, and various vegetables.

What time/pressure to use to be safe?

In article . com>,
Robert Moulton > wrote:

> Is it safe to can a home recipe for tomato sauce as long as it is
> pressure canned (with two tbsps of lemon juice added per Litre)? No
> meat involved, just tomatoes, olive oil, and various vegetables.
>
> What time/pressure to use to be safe?

Check he
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_sauce.html
Note that THAT link is just for PLAIN ol' tomato sauce.

What you're describing sounds more to me like a spaghetti sauce. Check
he
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/...tti_sauce.html

The NCHFP site is a great one to bookmark.
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07

It looks like I way overshot how much vegetables I can safely use so
I'm going to stick all the canned stuff in the fridge and use it from
there.

On Sep 4, 5:03 pm, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Robert Moulton > wrote:
>
> > Is it safe to can a home recipe for tomato sauce as long as it is
> > pressure canned (with two tbsps of lemon juice added per Litre)? No
> > meat involved, just tomatoes, olive oil, and various vegetables.
>
> > What time/pressure to use to be safe?
>
> Check hehttp://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_sauce.html
> Note that THAT link is just for PLAIN ol' tomato sauce.
>
> What you're describing sounds more to me like a spaghetti sauce. Check
> hehttp://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/...tti_sauce.html
>
> The NCHFP site is a great one to bookmark.http://www.uga.edu/nchfp
>
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> For your listening pleasuhttp://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3--
> from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07

Robert Moulton wrote:
> It looks like I way overshot how much vegetables I can safely use so
> I'm going to stick all the canned stuff in the fridge and use it from
> there.

Why not add more tomato stuff to even out the ratio, and then can that?

B/

"Robert Moulton" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It looks like I way overshot how much vegetables I can safely use so
> I'm going to stick all the canned stuff in the fridge and use it from
> there.
>
I dunno, Robert. How much olive oil are you using? Assuming it's a small
amount compared to the rest of the ingredients, you should be able to
pressure can, but probably for more minutes than for spaghetti sauce.

The NCHFP page gives a recipe for Mixed Vegetables as follows:

Mixed Vegetables
a.. 6 cups sliced carrots
b.. 6 cups cut, whole kernel sweet corn
c.. 6 cups cut green beans
d.. 6 cups shelled lima beans
e.. 4 cups whole or crushed tomatoes
f.. 4 cups diced zucchini
Optional mix - You may change the suggested proportions or substitute other
favorite vegetables except leafy greens, dried beans, cream-style corn,
winter squash and sweet potatoes.

Yield: 7 quarts

Time to precess depends on your altitude and jar size, but varies from 75 to
90 minutes. (Canner pressure also varies.)

Check out the NCHFP site and then give your spaghetti sauce a try, is my
opinion. Rule of thumb for mixtures like this is to process for the longest
time you'd use if you canned the individual veggies separately.

The olive oil bothers me a bit -- a sauce that's particularly heavy in oil
won't process well, I think. But you can use just enough oil to saute your
onions, garlic, etc., and then add more when you use the sauce.

You may not like your sauce after processing -- in 75 or more minutes, your
veggies will lose some of their individuality. But give it a try if you
like. And then please report back.

Anny

Well, I just finished going through 120 pounds of tomatoes and I have
no desire right now to go back and re-can anything! I've stuck the
sauces I have made into the fridge and will just use them from there.
I'm a bit of a pessimist and am going to play it safe. The tomatoes I
did have left I've canned as crushed tomatoes and will use them as
bases for fresh sauce in the future.

This all started on a whim when I saw baskets of tomatoes for sale.
I've hot water canned before and bought the tomatoes thinking I could
take that approach. Then I got home and learned I needed to go out
and get a pressure canner. So I got that, then I found out that even
then that this does not make a recipe safe...

On Sep 5, 3:56 pm, "Anny Middon" > wrote:
> "Robert Moulton" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...> It looks like I way overshot how much vegetables I can safely use so
> > I'm going to stick all the canned stuff in the fridge and use it from
> > there.
>
> I dunno, Robert. How much olive oil are you using? Assuming it's a small
> amount compared to the rest of the ingredients, you should be able to
> pressure can, but probably for more minutes than for spaghetti sauce.
>
> The NCHFP page gives a recipe for Mixed Vegetables as follows:
>
> Mixed Vegetables
> a.. 6 cups sliced carrots
> b.. 6 cups cut, whole kernel sweet corn
> c.. 6 cups cut green beans
> d.. 6 cups shelled lima beans
> e.. 4 cups whole or crushed tomatoes
> f.. 4 cups diced zucchini
> Optional mix - You may change the suggested proportions or substitute other
> favorite vegetables except leafy greens, dried beans, cream-style corn,
> winter squash and sweet potatoes.
>
> Yield: 7 quarts
>
> Time to precess depends on your altitude and jar size, but varies from 75 to
> 90 minutes. (Canner pressure also varies.)
>
> Check out the NCHFP site and then give your spaghetti sauce a try, is my
> opinion. Rule of thumb for mixtures like this is to process for the longest
> time you'd use if you canned the individual veggies separately.
>
> The olive oil bothers me a bit -- a sauce that's particularly heavy in oil
> won't process well, I think. But you can use just enough oil to saute your
> onions, garlic, etc., and then add more when you use the sauce.
>
> You may not like your sauce after processing -- in 75 or more minutes, your
> veggies will lose some of their individuality. But give it a try if you
> like. And then please report back.
>
> Anny

"Robert Moulton" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well, I just finished going through 120 pounds of tomatoes and I have
> no desire right now to go back and re-can anything! I've stuck the
> sauces I have made into the fridge and will just use them from there.
> I'm a bit of a pessimist and am going to play it safe. The tomatoes I
> did have left I've canned as crushed tomatoes and will use them as
> bases for fresh sauce in the future.
>
> This all started on a whim when I saw baskets of tomatoes for sale.
> I've hot water canned before and bought the tomatoes thinking I could
> take that approach. Then I got home and learned I needed to go out
> and get a pressure canner. So I got that, then I found out that even
> then that this does not make a recipe safe...
>
FWIW you know for next year.

BTW, you can BWB process crushed tomatoes. See the NCHFP site for details.

Anny

"Robert Moulton" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well, I just finished going through 120 pounds of tomatoes and I have
> no desire right now to go back and re-can anything! I've stuck the
> sauces I have made into the fridge and will just use them from there.
> I'm a bit of a pessimist and am going to play it safe. The tomatoes I
> did have left I've canned as crushed tomatoes and will use them as
> bases for fresh sauce in the future.
>
> This all started on a whim when I saw baskets of tomatoes for sale.
> I've hot water canned before and bought the tomatoes thinking I could
> take that approach. Then I got home and learned I needed to go out
> and get a pressure canner. So I got that, then I found out that even
> then that this does not make a recipe safe...

Nonsense. Canning with a pressure canner is much safer than a BWB
canner because heat will transfer through anything, given enough time.
By contrast with a BWB canner, you -must- have uniform acidity through
all the food in the jar. That is very difficult unless you use acid food,
like fruit, or puree the food and use an acidifier like lemon juice.

You do not need to acidify tomatos your going to pressure can.

The problem with pressure canning recipies is that introducing a lot of
hard food, or food with bones, or whatnot, that heat transfer from the
canner into the jar contents becomes an uncontrolled variable. That's why
those recipies tend to stay away from non-pureed foods, and for
stuff like soup that you obviously can't puree, they specify really long,
long, processing times.

In the bad old days, people routinely canned low acid food without
a pressure canner. They knew perfectly well they were getting a big
load of botulism toxin every time they opened the jar of spinach or
whatever. To get around that, they would simply cook everything
after they opened it, that was home-canned low acid food, since the
botulism toxin is easily destroyed by heat, and make absolutely sure to
not contaminate cooked food with utensils that had been touched
by the jar contents before cooking.

Of course, today it would be extremely irresponsible to knowingly
follow a canning procedure that would do this, so that is why we
pressure can low acid foods.

But, if your paranoid that you might have screwed up on the tomatoes
that you canned, then simply make sure when you open the jars
that you dump the contents directly into a saucepan and bring them
to a boil before adding the ingredients to make your spaghetti sauce
or whatever.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> Nonsense....

> You do not need to acidify tomatos your going to pressure can.

No, but there is the belt-and-suspenders crowd, as well as
belt-suspenders-staples....

> But, if your paranoid that you might have screwed up on the tomatoes
> that you canned, then simply make sure when you open the jars
> that you dump the contents directly into a saucepan and bring them
> to a boil before adding the ingredients to make your spaghetti sauce
> or whatever.

I *think* it was bring to a full and rolling boil, uncovered, for 10
minutes?

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> > Nonsense....
>
> > You do not need to acidify tomatos your going to pressure can.
>
> No, but there is the belt-and-suspenders crowd, as well as
> belt-suspenders-staples....
>
> > But, if your paranoid that you might have screwed up on the tomatoes
> > that you canned, then simply make sure when you open the jars
> > that you dump the contents directly into a saucepan and bring them
> > to a boil before adding the ingredients to make your spaghetti sauce
> > or whatever.
>
> I *think* it was bring to a full and rolling boil, uncovered, for 10
> minutes?
>

Botulism toxin is destroyed at 185 F

http://www.uos.harvard.edu/ehs/fs_botulinum.shtml

The 10 minute rule of thumb is a myth. The only basis it
has is that canned solid foods that are in liquid take longer to
heat up than the liquid they are in. But there is no official
guide. It's quite possible a large solid piece of food in a
suspended liquid might not reach 185 even after 10 minutes at
a rolling boil.

Rolling boil for water is 212, but for tomato sauce it's going to be a
bit higher.

I would assume for tomato sauce since it's liquid that a candy
thermometer could be used to make sure it's reached the
desired temp.

Naturally, if you knew for a fact that a canned item had
toxin in it, you would be a fool to try messing around with
heating it then eating it. What we are talking about here is
for the people who's brains are telling them the food is
OK but they still have an irrational fear that it isn't, and
want to do something to be extra certain about it.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>
>>> Nonsense....
>>
>>> You do not need to acidify tomatos your going to pressure can.
>>
>> No, but there is the belt-and-suspenders crowd, as well as
>> belt-suspenders-staples....
>>
>>> But, if your paranoid that you might have screwed up on the
>>> tomatoes that you canned, then simply make sure when you open the
>>> jars that you dump the contents directly into a saucepan and
>>> bring them to a boil before adding the ingredients to make your
>>> spaghetti sauce or whatever.
>>
>> I *think* it was bring to a full and rolling boil, uncovered, for
>> 10 minutes?
>>
>
> Botulism toxin is destroyed at 185 F
>
> http://www.uos.harvard.edu/ehs/fs_botulinum.shtml

Huh, I wonder where I got it was stable to 240F

> The 10 minute rule of thumb is a myth. The only basis it has is that
> canned solid foods that are in liquid take longer to heat up than the
> liquid they are in. But there is no official guide. It's quite
> possible a large solid piece of food in a suspended liquid might not
> reach 185 even after 10 minutes at a rolling boil.

I see your point, but I don't see that anyone's canned an entire pot
roast and is trying to decontaminate it.

> Rolling boil for water is 212, but for tomato sauce it's going to be
> a bit higher.

??

Tomato sauce is still mostly water, though; I don't see the solids as
making much of a difference in ~sea level boiling temps.

> Naturally, if you knew for a fact that a canned item had toxin in it,
> you would be a fool to try messing around with heating it then eating
> it.

There's that.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>>
>> Botulism toxin is destroyed at 185 F
>>
>> http://www.uos.harvard.edu/ehs/fs_botulinum.shtml
>
>
> Huh, I wonder where I got it was stable to 240F
>

There are three thesholds with regard to botulinum. From
lowest to highest:

1> The temp at which the organism is destroyed
2> The temp at which the toxin is destroyed
3> The temp at which the spores are destroyed

Many people confuse 2 and 3.

--
Reg

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
>
> > Rolling boil for water is 212, but for tomato sauce it's going to be
> > a bit higher.
>
> ??
>
> Tomato sauce is still mostly water, though; I don't see the solids as
> making much of a difference in ~sea level boiling temps.
>

It's not the solids - it is only pure water that boils exactly at 212.
Salts and other ingredients raise the boiling temp.

For example take a candy thermometer and bring water to a
furious boil and measure the water temp. You will read 212.

Now take a pot of jam loaded up with sugar and bring it to a
rolling boil, then measure with a candy thermometer. You will
see it go to at least 220 maybe higher.

Ted

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 01:07:30 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:

>
>"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> > Rolling boil for water is 212, but for tomato sauce it's going to be
>> > a bit higher.
>>
>> ??
>>
>> Tomato sauce is still mostly water, though; I don't see the solids as
>> making much of a difference in ~sea level boiling temps.
>>
>
>It's not the solids - it is only pure water that boils exactly at 212.
>Salts and other ingredients raise the boiling temp.
>
>For example take a candy thermometer and bring water to a
>furious boil and measure the water temp. You will read 212.
>
>Now take a pot of jam loaded up with sugar and bring it to a
>rolling boil, then measure with a candy thermometer. You will
>see it go to at least 220 maybe higher.
>
>Ted
>

Depends on where you live.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> > Rolling boil for water is 212, but for tomato sauce it's going to be
>> > a bit higher.
>>
>> ??
>>
>> Tomato sauce is still mostly water, though; I don't see the solids as
>> making much of a difference in ~sea level boiling temps.
>>
>
> It's not the solids - it is only pure water that boils exactly at 212.
> Salts and other ingredients raise the boiling temp.
>
> For example take a candy thermometer and bring water to a
> furious boil and measure the water temp. You will read 212.
>
> Now take a pot of jam loaded up with sugar and bring it to a
> rolling boil, then measure with a candy thermometer. You will
> see it go to at least 220 maybe higher.

That's why I said "mostly water" up above. A sugar solution is a
different kettle of fish, so to speak.

I suppose the next time I make up a pot of tomato sauce for something I
can bring it to a boil and measure the temperature.

B/