Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three types
of "lemons".
The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
Lemons or Citrons?

--
Pre-1900 recipes: http://www.theoldecookerybook.com

--
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"Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .
> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three
> types
> of "lemons".
> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
> Lemons or Citrons?

Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting small
greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and sometimes
juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in season, bumpy and
lovely and the best for limoncello.

Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?

Giusi a écrit :
> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> .. .
>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
>> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three
>> types
>> of "lemons".
>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
>> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
>> Lemons or Citrons?
>
> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting small
> greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and sometimes
> juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in season, bumpy and
> lovely and the best for limoncello.
>
> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>
>
Here we have pictures of the citron (cédrat)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron

the lemon (citron)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon

and the lime (citron vert)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)

The differences are notable and enable to determine what you have in
your stores.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Giusi wrote:
> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> .. .
>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
>> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three
>> types
>> of "lemons".
>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
>> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
>> Lemons or Citrons?
>
> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting small
> greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and sometimes
> juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in season, bumpy and
> lovely and the best for limoncello.
>
> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>
>
Address for that, please?

BTW, I have seen citron spoken of as a melon too, I think. I am
about to go out but will ponder this more and maybe do a bit of
looking around here.

--
Jean B.

Christophe Bachmann wrote:
> Giusi a écrit :
>> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> .. .
>>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the
>>> shops?
>>> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three
>>> types
>>> of "lemons".
>>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon",
>>> and
>>> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the
>>> shop?
>>> Lemons or Citrons?
>>
>> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting
>> small greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and
>> sometimes juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in
>> season, bumpy and lovely and the best for limoncello.
>>
>> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>>
> Here we have pictures of the citron (cédrat)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron
>
> the lemon (citron)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon
>
> and the lime (citron vert)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)
>
> The differences are notable and enable to determine what you have in
> your stores.

That obviously is no melon! The rind reminds me a bit of the more
bumpy kaffir lime, which is also used for rind (and leaves) as vs,
fruit. Interesting.

--
Jean B.

Jean B. a écrit :
> Christophe Bachmann wrote:
>> Giusi a écrit :
>>> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> .. .
>>>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the
>>>> shops?
>>>> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of
>>>> three types
>>>> of "lemons".
>>>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>>>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the
>>>> "Lemon", and
>>>> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the
>>>> shop?
>>>> Lemons or Citrons?
>>>
>>> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting
>>> small greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and
>>> sometimes juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in
>>> season, bumpy and lovely and the best for limoncello.
>>>
>>> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>>>
>> Here we have pictures of the citron (cédrat)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron
>>
>> the lemon (citron)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon
>>
>> and the lime (citron vert)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)
>>
>> The differences are notable and enable to determine what you have in
>> your stores.
>
> That obviously is no melon! The rind reminds me a bit of the more bumpy
> kaffir lime, which is also used for rind (and leaves) as vs, fruit.
> Interesting.
>
Obviously, none is a melon ! ;-)

But more seriously if what you have is bumpy and a quite big fruit it
could be a citron (cédrat) perhaps a diamante.

Size really is a good indicator in this case.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Giusi wrote:

> Here in Italy it depends on the season. *Curerently we are getting small
> greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and sometimes
> juicy. *I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in season, bumpy
> and lovely and the best for limoncello.

Thanks,

> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?

Nope - I must have a look. Do you have an address?


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Christophe Bachmann wrote:

> Giusi a écrit :
>> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> .. .
>>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the
>>> shops? In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of
>>> three types
>>> of "lemons".
>>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon",
>>> and the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the
>>> shop? Lemons or Citrons?
>>
>> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting small
>> greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and sometimes
>> juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in season, bumpy
>> and lovely and the best for limoncello.
>>
>> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>>
>>
> Here we have pictures of the citron (cédrat)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron
>
> the lemon (citron)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon

We obiously have mostly lemons in our shops. When we are not buying Lime
that is

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"Martin" > wrote in message
.. .
> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three
> types
> of "lemons".
> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
> Lemons or Citrons?
>
> --
> Pre-1900 recipes: http://www.theoldecookerybook.com
>
>I think if you ask that question today-What is a lemon-the answer you will
>get is Sunkist. And limes are green.

On Aug 12, 12:16*am, Martin > wrote:
> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three types
> of "lemons".
> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
> Lemons or Citrons?
>
> --
> Pre-1900 recipes:http://www.theoldecookerybook.com
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> * * * ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
> Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

============================================

Shalom, Martin,
A Citron is NOT a lemon. It is a an ETROG ( Citrus medica ).
<en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etrog>.
Jews use them for the holiday of "Sukkot" - the autumn harvest
festival. They are mighty hard to come by in North Dakota, Ya betcha!

Lynn from Fargo
May your Etrog's pupik (pitom) never fall off!

Christophe Bachmann wrote:
> Jean B. a écrit :
>> Christophe Bachmann wrote:
>>> Giusi a écrit :
>>>> "Martin" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>> .. .
>>>>> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the
>>>>> shops?
>>>>> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of
>>>>> three types
>>>>> of "lemons".
>>>>> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
>>>>> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the
>>>>> "Lemon", and
>>>>> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in
>>>>> the shop?
>>>>> Lemons or Citrons?
>>>>
>>>> Here in Italy it depends on the season. Curerently we are getting
>>>> small greenish lemons from South Africa that are sometimes dry and
>>>> sometimes juicy. I like it when the big fat Sorrento lemons are in
>>>> season, bumpy and lovely and the best for limoncello.
>>>>
>>>> Are you a reader of the blog "18th century food"?
>>>>
>>> Here we have pictures of the citron (cédrat)
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron
>>>
>>> the lemon (citron)
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon
>>>
>>> and the lime (citron vert)
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)
>>>
>>> The differences are notable and enable to determine what you have in
>>> your stores.
>>
>> That obviously is no melon! The rind reminds me a bit of the more
>> bumpy kaffir lime, which is also used for rind (and leaves) as vs,
>> fruit. Interesting.
>>
> Obviously, none is a melon ! ;-)
>
> But more seriously if what you have is bumpy and a quite big fruit it
> could be a citron (cédrat) perhaps a diamante.
>
> Size really is a good indicator in this case.

I deleted a previous post, which would explain my melon comment.
I have seen citron referred to as a melon in old books, and it
obviously isn't one!

--
Jean B.

On Aug 12, 12:16*am, Martin > wrote:
> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three types
> of "lemons".
> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
> Lemons or Citrons?
>
> --
> Pre-1900 recipes:http://www.theoldecookerybook.com
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> * * * ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
> Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

=================================
OK, lets try this again (lost first reply, sorry)
That's not a lemon, It's an ETROG (see Wikipedia at "Etrog").
Jews use one when they celebrate Sukkot - the autumn harvest.
You betcha that they are extremely difficult to find in North
Dakota ;-)

Shalom,
Lynn from Fargo
Hoping your etrog's pitom doesn't fall off

Jean B. a écrit :
>
> I deleted a previous post, which would explain my melon comment. I have
> seen citron referred to as a melon in old books, and it obviously isn't
> one!
>
Perhaps this note taken from :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon
can help.

[i]n the Kalahari desert, the ancestral melon grows wild and is known as
the Tsamma melon (Citrullus lanatus var tastius). It is also known in
Zimbabwe as 'nwiwa, mwiwa or iswe'. The flesh is similar to the rind of
a watermelon and is often known as citron melon (distinct from the
actual citron, of the citrus family); It has established itself in the
wild in Baja California.

And :
Watermelon rinds are also edible, and sometimes used as a vegetable.
Pickled watermelon rind is also commonly consumed in the Southern US.

When one knows that citron is one of the most widely used candied peel
fruits, confusion is not completely excluded, but I still don't see
exactly how.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Lynn from Fargo a écrit :

> OK, lets try this again (lost first reply, sorry)
> That's not a lemon, It's an ETROG (see Wikipedia at "Etrog").
> Jews use one when they celebrate Sukkot - the autumn harvest.
> You betcha that they are extremely difficult to find in North
> Dakota ;-)
>
> Shalom,
> Lynn from Fargo
> Hoping your etrog's pitom doesn't fall off
>
A precision, some citrons are used as etrogs, while others cannot be.
(Halachic laws are quite complicated to understand for non-jews), but
citrons are used mostly for candied peel or succade.

See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron
and the list of citron varieties in the right margin.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Christophe Bachmann wrote:[i]
> Jean B. a écrit :
>>
>> I deleted a previous post, which would explain my melon comment. I
>> have seen citron referred to as a melon in old books, and it obviously
>> isn't one!
>>
> Perhaps this note taken from :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon
> can help.
>
> n the Kalahari desert, the ancestral melon grows wild and is known as
> the Tsamma melon (Citrullus lanatus var tastius). It is also known in
> Zimbabwe as 'nwiwa, mwiwa or iswe'. The flesh is similar to the rind of
> a watermelon and is often known as citron melon (distinct from the
> actual citron, of the citrus family); It has established itself in the
> wild in Baja California.
>
> And :
> Watermelon rinds are also edible, and sometimes used as a vegetable.
> Pickled watermelon rind is also commonly consumed in the Southern US.
>
> When one knows that citron is one of the most widely used candied peel
> fruits, confusion is not completely excluded, but I still don't see
> exactly how.

This would have been in old US cookbooks, so I doubt they would
have been alluding to a melon from the Kalahari desert. The only
reason this mention of it being a melon stuck in my mind was that
it struck me as so odd--and it is obviously wrong.

I was out book-hunting today, but maybe tomorrow or the next day I
can look in a few books here.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > wrote

> BTW, I have seen citron spoken of as a melon too, I think. I am about to
> go out but will ponder this more and maybe do a bit of looking around
> here.

Here in Turkey I've seen bergamots that were big enough to be confused with
very knobbly melons, at least at first sight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamot_orange

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

> "Jean B." > wrote
>> BTW, I have seen citron spoken of as a melon too, I think. I am about to
>> go out but will ponder this more and maybe do a bit of looking around
>> here.

Opincus wrote

> Here in Turkey I've seen bergamots that were big enough to be confused
> with very knobbly melons, at least at first sight.

After posting that I also remembered that the citron (Citrus medica) is
called "agackavunu" in Turkish, which literally means "tree-melon".

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

Opinicus wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote
>
>> BTW, I have seen citron spoken of as a melon too, I think. I am about to
>> go out but will ponder this more and maybe do a bit of looking around
>> here.
>
> Here in Turkey I've seen bergamots that were big enough to be confused with
> very knobbly melons, at least at first sight.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamot_orange
>
Thanks for the reminder to look. Well, this melon thing wasn't
from the grocers' manuals of the 1880s, which was the easiest
place for me to look.

This is going to drive me crazy. Now googling, I see there is
such a thing as a citron melon, but this is obviously a totally
different thing.

--
Jean B.

Opinicus wrote:
>> "Jean B." > wrote
>>> BTW, I have seen citron spoken of as a melon too, I think. I am about to
>>> go out but will ponder this more and maybe do a bit of looking around
>>> here.
>
> Opincus wrote
>
>> Here in Turkey I've seen bergamots that were big enough to be confused
>> with very knobbly melons, at least at first sight.
>
> After posting that I also remembered that the citron (Citrus medica) is
> called "agackavunu" in Turkish, which literally means "tree-melon".
>
We seem to be finding some rationale for this confusing thing.

--
Jean B.

> Just curious, how large is a lemon - and what are we buying in the shops?
> In a 18th century recipe (as I remember it) there is mention of three types
> of "lemons".
> The largest is a "Citron" (which is funny because lemon is "citron" in
> Swedish; and French of course), then somewhat smaller is the "Lemon", and
> the smallest one is the "Lime". So what are the lemons we buy in the shop?
> Lemons or Citrons?

When I was a kid in New Zealand, there were two kinds of lemons,
about equally common: "Mayer" lemons (with rather thin skin, about
the size of a tennis ball) and "Lisbon" lemons (about the size of
a baseball, with the extra volume occupied by pith). Lemons sold
in the UK are variants of the Mayer type, I haven't seen a Lisbon
for many years.

I think the Mayer is relatively recent, so the 18th century one
would probably have been closer to a Lisbon.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:49:31 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
> wrote:


>When I was a kid in New Zealand, there were two kinds of lemons,
>about equally common: "Mayer" lemons (with rather thin skin, about
>the size of a tennis ball) and "Lisbon" lemons (about the size of
>a baseball, with the extra volume occupied by pith). Lemons sold
>in the UK are variants of the Mayer type, I haven't seen a Lisbon
>for many years.
>
>I think the Mayer is relatively recent, so the 18th century one
>would probably have been closer to a Lisbon.

Isn't it Meyer? It is a cross between a true lemon and a mandarin
orange.

The other common varieties are Eureka lemons and Ponderosa Lemons. the
Ponderosa is a hybrid of lemon and citron.