I know that rye flour doesn't have any particular taste itself, but
usually when I get a sandwich with "rye" bread, it has a particular
flavor (caraway?), which I associate with rye bread.

So today I wanted some rye bread to finish off some corned beef for
sandwiches. By the time I got there this afternoon, the little bakery
was all out of bread (it's an Italian bakery so I don't even know if
they'd have rye). Aha! What about the new kosher grocery store right
across the street? Although the square footage is bigger than most of
the kosher stores in the area (which are about the size of convenience
stores), they didn't have much in the way of bread. I picked up one
of the only rye loaves, which was labeled "Jewish rye." When I got it
home and tried a piece, it pretty much looks and tastes like white
bread. It's nice and fresh, but not what I expected even from a light
rye and I really don't need this much (2 lb!) of white bread.

There is no doubting the Jewish credentials of this place or the bread
(judging from the label), so I guess I was off the mark. I will avoid
"Jewish rye bread" when I want whatever it really is that I want when
I find out what that is.

My question is... what do I look for to get the kind of bread you get
in a Jewish *deli* (or any other, for that matter) when you tell them
you want "rye"? What is the default rye? "Caraway rye?"
pumpernickel? or something else?

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:

> My question is... what do I look for to get the kind of bread you get
> in a Jewish *deli* (or any other, for that matter) when you tell them
> you want "rye"? What is the default rye? "Caraway rye?"
> pumpernickel? or something else?
>

Great question. Even though most people associate rye bread
with caraway because it's traditionally added (either
topped or in the dough), rye doesn't taste anything like
caraway. It has an earthy and much more subtle flavor than
caraway.

Pumpernickel contains rye flour, but it has many
additional flavorings such as coffee, cocoa, molasses,
honey, various spices, caramel coloring, etc.

Personally, I prefer rye without caraway. I make a few
different kinds, one with rye berries added, one with
caraway, one with 100% rye flour (yes, it can be done).

The "default" rye, meaning the most popular, is probably
a mixed rye/white flour type with caraway.

If you're in NY, there used to be a place called Amy's
Bread. If it's still there, they stocked several
different kinds of rye that were some of the best
I've ever had.

--
Reg

"Curly Sue" > wrote:
> There is no doubting the Jewish credentials of this place or the bread
> (judging from the label), so I guess I was off the mark. I will avoid
> "Jewish rye bread" when I want whatever it really is that I want when
> I find out what that is.
>
> My question is... what do I look for to get the kind of bread you get
> in a Jewish *deli* (or any other, for that matter) when you tell them
> you want "rye"? What is the default rye? "Caraway rye?"
> pumpernickel? or something else?

I think what you are looking for used to be called just "rye bread". That's
what I was told to ask for when I was a little kid in our heavily Jewish
neighborhood in Philadelphia in the early 1960s. I memorized the phrase of
what I was supposed to get when I was sent to the bakery: "rye bread, with
seeds, not sliced". If I came back with rye bread without seeds, or rye
bread that was sliced, or even worse, rye bread without seeds and sliced, my
father would go through the roof. I did think the bread slicing machine was
very neat to watch, but not for the loaf I was sent to get.

Jewish rye bead is a perfectly good descriptive phrase, but they have to
know how to bake it. In addition to the caraway seeds, which I personally
think is required, there is a certain sourness in the taste, a certain chewy
texture of the interior, and a certain crunchiness to the crust that defines
it. Arnold's Jewish Rye is not it. That's rye bread for those raised on
Wonder Bread.

I never really came across it in any of my neighborhood markets in the
Washington, DC area. So I decided to bake it myself. Sometimes it comes out
exactly as I want it to, but sometimes there are defects of one sort or
another. But it is always better than what I ever found in any local
supermarket chain, that's for sure. But strangely, I did find a fairly good
version baked in the Publix supermarket in my parent's neighborhood in Miami
several years ago. So I guess it can be done. Maybe the particular
neighborhood has to have a demand for the product. I think I've always been
living in the wrong neighborhood... but they do have chitlins.

Beyond not having the good rye bread in my neighborhood, they don't sell
pickled green tomatoes either, another of my favorites. I've made them
myself on occassion too, but green tomatoes are somewhat hard to come by in
the city.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:26:47 GMT, (Curly
Sue) wrote:

>I know that rye flour doesn't have any particular taste itself, but
>usually

Are you playing with us? Rye flour has it's distinctive flavor.
Pour a plate of "white" flour and rye and tell us there isn't any
difference.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:47:11 GMT, Ward Abbott >
wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:26:47 GMT, (Curly
>Sue) wrote:
>
>>I know that rye flour doesn't have any particular taste itself, but
>>usually
>
>Are you playing with us? Rye flour has it's distinctive flavor.
>Pour a plate of "white" flour and rye and tell us there isn't any
>difference.

I have white flour. I have medium rye flour. They look the same. I
sampled them. They taste the same.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:
> I know that rye flour doesn't have any particular taste itself,

Good rye flour does indeed have a particular flavor

>but usually when I get a sandwich with "rye" bread, it has a particular
> flavor (caraway?), which I associate with rye bread.

Not necessarily, there's rye bread and seeded rye bread... and real
seeded Jewish sour rye bread contains "charnuska", not caraway... but
caraway is okay too, not going to find it with charnuska anymore unless
you make your own. I used to bake my own but it's been years, doesn't
really pay for one or two loaves. Seeded or not, both are good, when
it's the real deal. I like the seeded with meat, unseeded with fish
(tuna salad, herring, smoked fish, even egg salad).

> So today I wanted some rye bread to finish off some corned beef for
> sandwiches. By the time I got there this afternoon, the little bakery
> was all out of bread (it's an Italian bakery so I don't even know if
> they'd have rye). Aha! What about the new kosher grocery store right
> across the street? Although the square footage is bigger than most of
> the kosher stores in the area (which are about the size of convenience
> stores), they didn't have much in the way of bread. I picked up one
> of the only rye loaves, which was labeled "Jewish rye." When I got it
> home and tried a piece, it pretty much looks and tastes like white
> bread. It's nice and fresh, but not what I expected even from a light
> rye and I really don't need this much (2 lb!) of white bread.
>
> There is no doubting the Jewish credentials of this place or the bread
> (judging from the label), so I guess I was off the mark. I will avoid
> "Jewish rye bread" when I want whatever it really is that I want when
> I find out what that is.
>
> My question is... what do I look for to get the kind of bread you get
> in a Jewish *deli* (or any other, for that matter) when you tell them
> you want "rye"? What is the default rye? "Caraway rye?"
> pumpernickel? or something else?

Depends where you reside. Very few locals in the world sell authentic
Jewish sour rye bread.... in the US perhaps four, NYC (you knew that),
Chicago, Los Angeles (eh!), and usta be Miami but perhaps no more.
There is no such thing as authentic Jewish sour rye bread sold
commercially, it's only available from an old fashioned kosher
bakery... the ones in the stupidmarket in cellophane are dreck,
regardless under what Jewish name; Levys, Grossingers, Manischewitz,
etal., all G'Barge! Pumpernickel is a type of rye bread, sometimes
available as "marble", like marble cake only half rye, half
pumpernickel... pumpernickel has no seeds, and never molasses, the dark
color is from burnt sugar... and very little is used, burnt sugar is
black like coal, a very potent colorant.

Sheldon

Curly Sue wrote:
> [snip]
> My question is... what do I look for to get the kind of bread you get
> in a Jewish *deli* (or any other, for that matter) when you tell them
> you want "rye"? What is the default rye? "Caraway rye?"
> pumpernickel? or something else?
>
I don't know the real answer but I found what works for me. None of
the supermarket brands are satisfying when the yen strikes strongly so
I go to Hollywood to a particular Russian bakery I found some years
ago. There I ask for "sour rye" because that's what they once told me
the kind I like was called. If the ownership ever changes I'm probably
going to be SOL. -aem

So is "sour rye" related to "sourdough"?

--Blair

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> So is "sour rye" related to "sourdough"?
>
> --Blair
>

Yes. It's a rye bread made with sourdough starter instead
of commercial yeast.

--
Reg

People think I'm a little srtange in the grocery store...... I smell
rye and sourdough bread to see if they have any hint of the tang I'm
looking for. Heck, the loaves are wrapped, it's sanitary, and gives me
an idea of whether the flavor is as strong as I'd like. I do the same
thing with produce - you can tell a ripe melon or pineapple by the
smell.

I agree that what you're looking for is probably 'sour rye'.