"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...

>>P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>>

>>but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
>>http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>>

>
>> Dee, I think it might be that book.

I've decided to put back that book. I did get out Clayton's book and
started looking for a white bread recipe for my new long loaf pans; one 12"
long & the other one 13-3/4" long, more-or-less regular loaf-sized width.

In this cinnamon raisin bread loaf, it did say to shape the dough to the
pan, but, I didn't have to do that as my pan was just the right length,
which made the dough in the pan a lesser height to begin with at the
proofing stage. That could have made some difference.


>I had trouble with their broa
> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
> bread very much.
> What was the ingredients list?

1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
2 eggs
3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not currants)

You did put in all the brown sugar,> right?
Yes.

You just shorted it on raisins? That the only thing you
> changed?

I changed 2 T of milk, and substituted 2 T sour cream.
And the change of raisins.

Maybe the raisins shorted it on some sugar and it had less
> oomph because of it.
>
> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.

I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>
> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
> gravlax.

I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
recipe. If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint term
of mine about purchased bread.

For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa in
the freezer).

Thanks for your ideas,
very helpful,
Dee Dee

On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:58:57 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .

>>I had trouble with their broa
>> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
>> bread very much.
>> What was the ingredients list?
>
>1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
>3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
>3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
>1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
>(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
>2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
>2 eggs
>3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
>1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not currants)

How much yeast?
>

>> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.
>
>I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
>ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>>
>> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
>> gravlax.
>
>I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
>posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
>recipe.

It was those pictures that gave me the idea to use the Hamelman
recipe.

>If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
>which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint term
>of mine about purchased bread.

Wegman's, like other groceries, usually starts from a mix, rather than
a fresh or frozen dough, though with bialys, I am not sure. The take a
bit of effort to shape and time is money in those places. Perhaps they
do get them as frozen dough.

I avoid store-bought bread whenever possible.
>
>For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
>number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
>Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa in
>the freezer).

I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.

And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
doughs.

>Thanks for your ideas,
>very helpful,
>Dee Dee
>
Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
snip
> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>
> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
> doughs.
>
>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>very helpful,
>>Dee Dee
>>
> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>
> Boron

I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well. I
have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast and
bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant instant
yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for Dee's raisin
bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough after mixing.
If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time to recover in
that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when adding the dry
yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich dough. The yeast
just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you always use fresh
yeast don't you?
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
> ...
> snip
>> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
>> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
>> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>>
>> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
>> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
>> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
>> doughs.
>>
>>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>>very helpful,
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>>
>> Boron
>
> I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well.
> I have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast
> and bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant
> instant yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for
> Dee's raisin bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough
> after mixing. If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time
> to recover in that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when
> adding the dry yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich
> dough. The yeast just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you
> always use fresh yeast don't you?
> Janet
An aside -- in this particular recipe, it called for the dark brown sugar to
be mixed with 1/2 cup of the milk and to be stirred to dissolve completely.
Then sprinkle the yeast into the milk/sugar mixture, let stand for 5
minutes; stir to dissolve completely. It did not mention temperature of the
milk. When the bread was mixed, I 'infrared' the temperature from the
outside; it was 65 (about the temp) of the room at that time. I put it to
raise in the utility room which is 80-82º.
Booo to this receipe - there are others.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciatethem.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:42:33 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip
>> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
>> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
>> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>>
>> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
>> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
>> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
>> doughs.
>>
>>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>>very helpful,
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>>
>> Boron
>
>I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well. I
>have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast and
>bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant instant
>yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for Dee's raisin
>bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough after mixing.
>If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time to recover in
>that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when adding the dry
>yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich dough. The yeast
>just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you always use fresh
>yeast don't you?
>Janet
>


I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
anything and everything.

If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
starters.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
snip
> I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
> mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
> for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
> anything and everything.
>
> If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
> starters.
>
> Boron

I would love to try fresh sometime but I have even seen the little packages
of it in probably 20 years.
Janet

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:13:15 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip
>> I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
>> mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
>> for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
>> anything and everything.
>>
>> If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
>> starters.
>>
>> Boron
>
>I would love to try fresh sometime but I have even seen the little packages
>of it in probably 20 years.
>Janet
>


Try a bakery. Sometimes they will give you or sell you some. Of
course, good old-fashioned bakeries are few and far between these
days, too. sigh

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:58:57 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>>>I had trouble with their broa
>>> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
>>> bread very much.
>>> What was the ingredients list?
>>
>>1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
>>3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
>>3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
>>1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
>>(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
>>2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
>>2 eggs
>>3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
>>1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not
>>currants)
>

>>
>
>>> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.
>>
>>I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
>>ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>>>
>>> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
>>> gravlax.
>>
>>I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
>>posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
>>recipe.
>
> It was those pictures that gave me the idea to use the Hamelman
> recipe.
>
>>If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
>>which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint
>>term
>>of mine about purchased bread.
>
> Wegman's, like other groceries, usually starts from a mix, rather than
> a fresh or frozen dough, though with bialys, I am not sure. The take a
> bit of effort to shape and time is money in those places. Perhaps they
> do get them as frozen dough.
>
> I avoid store-bought bread whenever possible.
>>
>>For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
>>number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
>>Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa
>>in
>>the freezer).
>
> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>
> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
> doughs.
>
>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>very helpful,
>>Dee Dee
>>
> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>
> Boron


> How much yeast?

Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:


>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>Dee Dee
>


I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>>Dee Dee
>>
>
>
> I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.
>
> Boron

We've often been told by Roy that the fix for a reticent enriched dough is
more yeast. Enriched dough just needs more consideration with temperature
and yeast than a lean dough. I don't have the book Dee is using so I
couldn't look up the recipe.
Janet

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>>Dee Dee
>>
>
>
> I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.
>
> Boron

Interesting - at the time I was measuring out, I was thinking "hmm -- wonder
if 1-1/2 would be enough, then I said, no -- I'll give it 2."
(2-1/4 tsp = 1 packet).
An interesting comment DH made when he took the one bite was "Tastes very
yeasty."

Anyway, I don't think my yeast is bad, but since I have two un-opened SAF's
on hand (that I had to get from online mail-order) , I think I'll open the
SAF on my next bread.

Dee Dee