I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

Andy Katz wrote:
> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
> Andy Katz

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
wrote:

>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:00:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy Katz?

> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any

You "trailed at 24"? What the hell is that, Andy? It probably fits in the
thread about most-hated phrases. :-)

> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?

I wouldn't say it's common, but certainly doable. I've seen it before, but
never eaten it. Unlike Beef Wellington, however, the meatloaf would need
to be cooked before encasing in the pastry. If you didn't, it would
probably end up a greasy mess.

More common, of course, is a cooked, hot meatloaf frosted and decorated
with well-seasoned mashed potatoes, then browned nicely in the oven.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:08:59p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?

> Andy Katz wrote:
>> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
>> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
>> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
>> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>>
>> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
>> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
>> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
>> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
>> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>> control on the menu).
>>
>> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
>> appearing in comfort food venues?
>>
>> Andy Katz
>
> I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
> pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
> this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
> a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

Meatloaf en croute is certainly none of the above. Each of them is unto
themselves. I think Andy is picturing a meatloaf made with at least a
pound or two of meat, not anything hand-held.

Having said that, I absolutely love Cornish pasties. Empanadas are pretty
good, too.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Andy Katz > wrote:

>I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
>cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
>a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
>pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
>Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
>learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
>trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
>meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
>(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>control on the menu).
>
>Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
>appearing in comfort food venues?

Try googling "meatloaf en croute". There's only 19 hits
but it appears a recipe by that name appeared many years
ago, and that it's on the menu of a comfort food restaurant
in Los Angeles.

Your blue cheese may be an original touch though...

Steve
>
>Andy Katz

Andy Katz wrote:
> [snip] Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
No. If it appeared anywhere it would be rare. Probably because it's a
bad idea. A good meatloaf is made of two or three different ground
meats, preferably fatty ones. A good one produces *a lot* of fat while
it's cooking. How can you possibly wrap such a thing in pastry, and
why in the world would you want to? If you want something crusty with
your meatloaf, wait till the second day and toast the bread for your
meatloaf sandwich. -aem

Andy Katz wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>
>
> No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>
> Andy Katz

Which is a ground meat dish.... right?

Andy Katz wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>
>
> No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>
> Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?

> Andy Katz wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>>>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>>>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>
>>
>> No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>
>> Andy Katz
>
> After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
> what it is you're wanting....
>

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to. Meatloaves
are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until the
pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?
>
>
>>Andy Katz wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>>>>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>>>>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>>
>>>
>>>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>>
>>>Andy Katz
>>
>>After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
>>what it is you're wanting....
>>
>
>
> This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to. Meatloaves
> are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).
>
> http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg
>
> Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until the
> pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)
>

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:59:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>> PastaLover?
>>
>>
>>>Andy Katz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something
>>>>>like this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry
>>>>>encasing a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>>>
>>>>Andy Katz
>>>
>>>After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
>>>what it is you're wanting....
>>>
>>
>>
>> This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to.
>> Meatloaves are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).
>>
>> http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg
>>
>> Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until
>> the pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)
>>
>
> Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
> If at the same time, it's what I originally described.
>

The meatloaf is baked first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again. If
the meatloaf mixture was wrapped in pastry while still raw and then baked,
no doubt the pastry would be burnt and very greasy by the time the meat
inside was cooked. It's the mass of meat that makes the difference. Even
with Beef Wellington (boeuf en croute) made with tenderloin of beef, the
meat is roasted first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again.

What you originally described were various hand-sized meat "pies", not
meatloaves.

I'm not trying to be snotty, but may I ask where you live that you have
never seen or heard of a meatloaf?

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Andy Katz wrote:
>
> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
> Andy Katz

Would the grease that comes out of the meat loaf be a problem or
could you just cover the top and sides with the dough??? Sharon

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:59:09 -0700, PastaLover >
wrote:

>Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
>If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

Oh, I would cook off the meatloaf prior, then do as much of the wrap
as possible a la minute so it avoids getting soggy but doesn't have to
be excessively dry.

Andy Katz
************************************************** *************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:59:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> PastaLover?
>
>
>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>>>PastaLover?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Andy Katz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>>>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something
>>>>>>like this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry
>>>>>>encasing a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>>>>
>>>>>Andy Katz
>>>>
>>>>After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
>>>>what it is you're wanting....
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to.
>>>Meatloaves are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).
>>>
>>> http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg
>>>
>>>Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until
>>>the pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)
>>>
>>
>>Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
>>If at the same time, it's what I originally described.
>>
>
>
> The meatloaf is baked first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again. If
> the meatloaf mixture was wrapped in pastry while still raw and then baked,
> no doubt the pastry would be burnt and very greasy by the time the meat
> inside was cooked. It's the mass of meat that makes the difference. Even
> with Beef Wellington (boeuf en croute) made with tenderloin of beef, the
> meat is roasted first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again.
>
> What you originally described were various hand-sized meat "pies", not
> meatloaves.
>
> I'm not trying to be snotty, but may I ask where you live that you have
> never seen or heard of a meatloaf?
>

I've heard of a meatloaf. Grandma used to make a lot of it. ;-)

I just didn't realize what exactly it was that you were talking about. I
was recently in so. Florida and every time I turned around, I was seeing
these Jacmaican meat patty things, so that was naturally what I thought
of when I saw something about ground meat in pastry.

On 8 Dec 2005 04:50:15 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:00:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy Katz?
>
>> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
>> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
>> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
>> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>>
>> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
>> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
>> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
>
>You "trailed at 24"? What the hell is that, Andy? It probably fits in the
>thread about most-hated phrases. :-)

Sorry. "Trailed" means to work a shift without pay, either to see if
you'd like to work there, or just want the experience. I *was* looking
for a job, and I liked the place, but the station I'd work was too far
away from the pass, and I can't hear that well, so I'd have a hard
time keeping up with service.

Looks as though ChipShop in Brooklyn is beckoning. I'm trailing there
tonight, but I'd have to be especially inept not to get the job;-)

>> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
>> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>> control on the menu).
>>
>> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
>> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
>I wouldn't say it's common, but certainly doable. I've seen it before, but
>never eaten it. Unlike Beef Wellington, however, the meatloaf would need
>to be cooked before encasing in the pastry. If you didn't, it would
>probably end up a greasy mess.

Oh, yes. I'm thinking a solid, finished meatloaf, then some onions, or
other vegetables and a cheese to add moisture but avoid sogginess.

>More common, of course, is a cooked, hot meatloaf frosted and decorated
>with well-seasoned mashed potatoes, then browned nicely in the oven.

Hmmmm;-)

Thanks

Andy Katz
************************************************** *************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:29:36 -0500, biig > wrote:

>Andy Katz wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
>> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
>> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
>> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>>
>> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
>> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
>> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
>> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
>> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>> control on the menu).
>>
>> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
>> appearing in comfort food venues?
>>
>> Andy Katz
>
> Would the grease that comes out of the meat loaf be a problem or
>could you just cover the top and sides with the dough??? Sharon

Shouldn't be, because all you're doing is re-heating the already
cooked meat, cooking the pastry and melting the cheese or whatever
filling you chose.

Andy Katz
************************************************** *************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

On Thu 08 Dec 2005 12:31:50p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy Katz?

> On 8 Dec 2005 04:50:15 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:00:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy
>>Katz?
>>
>>> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
>>> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
>>> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
>>> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>>>
>>> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
>>> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
>>> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
>>
>>You "trailed at 24"? What the hell is that, Andy? It probably fits in
>>the thread about most-hated phrases. :-)
>
> Sorry. "Trailed" means to work a shift without pay, either to see if
> you'd like to work there, or just want the experience. I *was* looking
> for a job, and I liked the place, but the station I'd work was too far
> away from the pass, and I can't hear that well, so I'd have a hard
> time keeping up with service.

Thanks, Andy. I'm sorry, but I had never heard that expression before.
Perhaps its unique to the food service industry.

> Looks as though ChipShop in Brooklyn is beckoning. I'm trailing there
> tonight, but I'd have to be especially inept not to get the job;-)

Good luck!

>>> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
>>> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>>> control on the menu).
>>>
>>> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been appearing
>>> in comfort food venues?
>>
>>I wouldn't say it's common, but certainly doable. I've seen it before,
>>but never eaten it. Unlike Beef Wellington, however, the meatloaf would
>>need to be cooked before encasing in the pastry. If you didn't, it
>>would probably end up a greasy mess.
>
> Oh, yes. I'm thinking a solid, finished meatloaf, then some onions, or
> other vegetables and a cheese to add moisture but avoid sogginess.
>
>>More common, of course, is a cooked, hot meatloaf frosted and decorated
>>with well-seasoned mashed potatoes, then browned nicely in the oven.
>
> Hmmmm;-)

It is tasty, and gives the meatloaf a more festive look. I forgot to say
that the mashed potatoes can be brushed with an egg yolk beaten with a bit
of cream, which gives a lovely surface when browned.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Andy Katz wrote:
> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
> Andy Katz

I'm not in a super large urban area (no kidding, right?) but I've never
seen or heard of meatloaf en croute on a restaurant menu.

I like to frost meatloaf with herbed mashed potatoes, dotted with
butter.

N.

Andy Katz wrote:

> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
>
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
> Andy Katz

I have seen many versions of a 'meat loaf' in pastry but can not find a
specific recipe for beef.

I have a number of recipes for pork pies in pastry or other dough that
is baked, usually in a spring form pan to facilitate removal, i have a
recipe for pork chops in puff pastry and an old English recipe for pork
pie in short pastry, sausage and bacon pie.

I have a venison loaf recipe that might be interesting in pastry.

And you might want to look at the 'vol au vent' recipes, these puff
pastry shells are often filled with all manner of combinations of meats,
veggies and sauces.

Scallops and mushrooms in pastry is very nice and a salmon loaf in
pastry is equally good.

I have an old recipe me mum used to make which entails scooping out the
insides of a whole loaf bread nd making a tuna salad with cooked
potatoes, peas, carrots, eggs, mayo & various seasonings and stuffed
into the hollowed out loaf of bread, chilled and sliced and served,
called a "stuffed picnic loaf".

In most of these recipes the pork is cooked before it is wrapped in
pastry to render out as much fat as possible. then the piece is
assembled and baked.

Using a very lean beef and phyllo dough might be a way to go.

Let me know if you are interested in any of the pork pie recipes, which,
i think could be adapted to beef.
---
JL

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:22:44 GMT, Joseph LIttleshoes
> wrote:

>I have seen many versions of a 'meat loaf' in pastry but can not find a
>specific recipe for beef.

You have? Where? That's exactly what I'm talking about here, a true
meatloaf in dough or pastry (I ought to have been clearer, too, in
specifying that I'd cook the meatloaf off first, then wrap it and cook
it a second time in pastry;-).

>I have a number of recipes for pork pies in pastry or other dough that
>is baked, usually in a spring form pan to facilitate removal, i have a
>recipe for pork chops in puff pastry and an old English recipe for pork
>pie in short pastry, sausage and bacon pie.

I'm very interested in this, Joseph. We're in Park Slope. Matter of
fact I'm going to trail tonight in one of Brooklyn's most successful
restaurants, the ChipShop, basic fish and chips, Shepherd's Pie,
curries.

There's a large UK population here, so you really can't go wrong with
British comfort food (though I'm told this actually started with
Jamaicans in the area and across Flatbush).

>I have a venison loaf recipe that might be interesting in pastry.

Also interesting. There's a place, non-UK, down the street that serves
grilled venison filets. Very popular item, and it's probably the only
place around here that offers it.

>And you might want to look at the 'vol au vent' recipes, these puff
>pastry shells are often filled with all manner of combinations of meats,
>veggies and sauces.
>
>Scallops and mushrooms in pastry is very nice and a salmon loaf in
>pastry is equally good.

The scallops & mushrooms sound nice. Not sure about the salmon;-)

>I have an old recipe me mum used to make which entails scooping out the
>insides of a whole loaf bread nd making a tuna salad with cooked
>potatoes, peas, carrots, eggs, mayo & various seasonings and stuffed
>into the hollowed out loaf of bread, chilled and sliced and served,
>called a "stuffed picnic loaf".

Hmmm. I can picture it. It's interesting. But much as I like the
hollowed out bread idea, I just don't see it with tuna salad.

>In most of these recipes the pork is cooked before it is wrapped in
>pastry to render out as much fat as possible. then the piece is
>assembled and baked.

Right. That's the only way to go, unless the pork is cured such as
pancetta.

>Using a very lean beef and phyllo dough might be a way to go.
>
>Let me know if you are interested in any of the pork pie recipes, which,
>i think could be adapted to beef.

I would definitely be interested in pork-pie recipes, Joseph.

Thanks

Andy Katz
************************************************** *************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Andy Katz wrote:
> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.
>
> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
> control on the menu).
>
> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
> appearing in comfort food venues?
>
> Andy Katz

After perusing each every post it is patently evident that you are
arguing over fercocktah pre-ground stoopidmarket canker sore laden
mystery meat. . . so why don't you just shut the **** up, you mealy
mouthed KNOW-NOTHING ferschluganuh mental case. Sheesh! All of yoose,
stay out of kitchens!

Sheldon

On 8 Dec 2005 13:26:43 -0800, "Sheldon" > wrote:

>After perusing each every post it is patently evident that you are
>arguing over fercocktah pre-ground stoopidmarket canker sore laden
>mystery meat. . . so why don't you just shut the **** up, you mealy
>mouthed KNOW-NOTHING ferschluganuh mental case. Sheesh! All of yoose,
>stay out of kitchens!

Shelly, put on your glasses already. Yeah, I sometimes use pre-ground
meats, if that's what my employers provide. What can I say? Some of us
have the responsibility of providing meals to other people. We can't
all be culinary dilettantes.

What I'm proposing would be a premium meatloaf, made from hand-ground
meats.

I sometimes forget that rfc has readers like you who need every i
dotted and every t crossed or they go cross-eyed and start drooling.

Andy Katz
************************************************** *************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Andy Katz wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:22:44 GMT, Joseph LIttleshoes
> > wrote:
>
> >I have seen many versions of a 'meat loaf' in pastry but can not find
> a
> >specific recipe for beef.
>
> You have? Where? That's exactly what I'm talking about here, a true
> meatloaf in dough or pastry (I ought to have been clearer, too, in
> specifying that I'd cook the meatloaf off first, then wrap it and cook
>
> it a second time in pastry;-).

While its been awhile since i have patronized them, several restaurants
in the SF bay area have had this dish on the menu at one time or
another, there used to be a German themed restaurant in Berkeley that
was run by a Chinese family and they made some interesting variations on
the standard menu, they often made a turkey loaf in pastry crust.

>
>
> >I have a number of recipes for pork pies in pastry or other dough
> that
> >is baked, usually in a spring form pan to facilitate removal, i have
> a
> >recipe for pork chops in puff pastry and an old English recipe for
> pork
> >pie in short pastry, sausage and bacon pie.
>
> I'm very interested in this, Joseph. We're in Park Slope. Matter of
> fact I'm going to trail tonight in one of Brooklyn's most successful
> restaurants, the ChipShop, basic fish and chips, Shepherd's Pie,
> curries.

Mmmm i do like a good shepherds pie.

>
>
> There's a large UK population here, so you really can't go wrong with
> British comfort food (though I'm told this actually started with
> Jamaicans in the area and across Flatbush).
>
> >I have a venison loaf recipe that might be interesting in pastry.
>
> Also interesting. There's a place, non-UK, down the street that serves
>
> grilled venison filets. Very popular item, and it's probably the only
> place around here that offers it.

The venison loaf recipe i have calls for marinating the venison, i find
it takes the edge off the gamy aspect of venison, which, even though i
was raised øn the stuff i really don't like it.

>
>
> >And you might want to look at the 'vol au vent' recipes, these puff
> >pastry shells are often filled with all manner of combinations of
> meats,
> >veggies and sauces.
> >
> >Scallops and mushrooms in pastry is very nice and a salmon loaf in
> >pastry is equally good.
>
> The scallops & mushrooms sound nice. Not sure about the salmon;-)

Think of a very large fish cake. Ever add a bit of anchovy or mashed
fish mashed potatoes, i know it sounds odd but its acutaly pretty good.

>
>
> >I have an old recipe me mum used to make which entails scooping out
> the
> >insides of a whole loaf bread nd making a tuna salad with cooked
> >potatoes, peas, carrots, eggs, mayo & various seasonings and stuffed
> >into the hollowed out loaf of bread, chilled and sliced and served,
> >called a "stuffed picnic loaf".
>
> Hmmm. I can picture it. It's interesting. But much as I like the
> hollowed out bread idea, I just don't see it with tuna salad.

Me mum could make it worth eating but its not a very appetizing recipe
to read.

>
>
> >In most of these recipes the pork is cooked before it is wrapped in
> >pastry to render out as much fat as possible. then the piece is
> >assembled and baked.
>
> Right. That's the only way to go, unless the pork is cured such as
> pancetta.
>
> >Using a very lean beef and phyllo dough might be a way to go.
> >
> >Let me know if you are interested in any of the pork pie recipes,
> which,
> >i think could be adapted to beef.
>
> I would definitely be interested in pork-pie recipes, Joseph.

Here are a few i have on file. The first 2 are very good and the 3rd
while o.k. i have had a better version of as Julia Childs "Torte
Milinaise" layers of ham and cheese and pancetta and spinach in pastry.

pork pie
----------

3 lb. ground lean pork

2 cups diced onions

4 cooking apples, peeled, cored & diced

2 tsp. mace

2 tsp. salt [i cut this in half]

1 tsp. freshly ground black pepper

2 eggs beaten

2 cups fine fresh bread crumbs

1 recipe french lining pastry

3 hard boiled eggs, halved

1 recipe English glaze

Place pork in a dutch oven, cook over medium heat, stirring constantly
until fat is rendered. Drain off fat. Stir in onions, apples, mace,
salt and pepper. Stir in eggs and bread crumbs, mix well.

Roll out pastry, 1/4 inch thick, on a floured surface, line 10 x 4 inch
spring form loaf pan or 9 inch round spring form pan with the pasty,
seal edges together to prevent leaking.

Pack half the pork mixture in pan, arrange egg halves, cut side down, on
pork mixture, pack in remaining pork mixture. Moisten rim of pastry
with cold water, fit on top pastry. Pinch edges together. If desired,
roll out pastry trimmings, cut part of the trimming into 1 inch wide
strips to fit around edge of pie, braid or twist strips or cut into a
fringe, moisten top edges of pie and apply braid or fringe, brush top
of pie with English glaze.

Bake in a preheated 400 F oven for 15 minutes, reduce oven temperature
to 350 degrees; bake for 1 hour longer. Let cool slightly, Place on a
serving dish; remove sides of pan. Serve with a peperonata sauce, if
desired.
---------------

Old English pork pie
-------------------------

1 lb ground lean pork

1/8 tsp. sage

1 egg lightly beaten

salt

freshly ground black pepper

1/2 cup all purpose flour

1 pound lean pork

8 slices of bacon, diced

1 cup chopped spanish onion

2 tbs. butter

1/2 tsp. thyme

1/4 tsp. cinnamon

2 tbs. finely chopped parsley

1 & 1/4 cup red wine

1 & 1/4 cup beef broth

1/2 recipe basic savory short pastry

English glaze

Combine the ground pork, sage, egg, 1/2 tsp. salt, and 1/4 tsp. pepper
in a mixing bowl and mix well.

Shape into 1 inch balls. Combine the flour, 1/2 tsp. of salt and 1/4
tsp. of pepper. Dredge the balls with the flour mixture. Cut the pork
into 1/2 inch strips, then dredge with the remaining flour mixture.

Fry the bacon in a skillet until browned, then remove bacon with a
slotted spoon and drain on paper toweling. Brown the pork balls, the
the pork strips in the drippings. Remove with a slotted spoon and place
on paper toweling to drain.

Sauté the onion in the butter until lightly browned. COmbine the pork
strips, onion, thyme, cinnamon, parsley, wine and broth in a 2 inch deep
9 inch casserole.

Mix well then arrange the pork balls over the top. Cover bake in a
preheated 350 degree oven for 1 hour or until the pork is fork tender,
adding more broth if needed. Remove from the oven and cool thoroughly.

Roll out the pastry on a lightly floured surface to 1/8 inch thickness
and trim to fit the top of the casserole. Place on the cooled casserole
& brush with the glaze.

Cut 1/2 inch strips of the remaining pastry and twist then arrange the
twists around slightly moistened edge and center. Brush the trim with
the glaze, bake in a preheated 375 F oven for 25 minutes or until
browned and serve immediately.

Ham and herb pie
--------------------

1 recipe basic savory short pastry

1/4 cup finely diced cooked ham

2 eggs

1 & 1/4 cup milk

2 tsp. onion juice

1/8 tsp. white pepper

1/2 tsp. salt

1/2 cup freshly grated parmesan cheese

1 tsp. finely chopped chives

1 tsp. finely chopped parsley

1/8 tsp. dried tarragon leaves

Pinch of thyme leaves

Roll out 1/4 of the pastry 1/8 inch thick on a floured surface, then fit
into a 9 inch flan pan. Trim off excess pastry with rolling pin. Prick
bottom of pastry lightly with fork but not quite all the way through.
Refrigerate any remaining pastry for future use. Spread ham evenly over
pastry. Combine the eggs and milk in a medium mixing bowl and bet with
a fork until well mixed. Add remaining ingredients and beat until
combined. Pour carefully over ham.

Place flan pan on a cookie sheet. Bake in a pre heated 400 degree oven
for 5 minutes, then reduce oven temperature to 325 degrees and bake for
1 hour longer or until center is set. Cool on rack for 15 min then
remove flan ring. If desired sprinkle top loosely with thinly sliced
gruyere cheese
----------------------------------

As usual, if there are any question, especially about the pastry or
"English Glaze" just let me know. Also let me know if you are
interested in pork fillets in puff pastry or sausage rolls.
---
JL


>
>
> Thanks
>
> Andy Katz
> *********

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or
> was it PastaLover?
>
>> Andy Katz wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an
>>>>empanada, or a meat
>>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has
>>>>something like
>>>>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or
>>>>pastry encasing
>>>>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>>
>>>
>>> No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>>
>>> Andy Katz
>>
>> After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm
>> misunderstanding exactly
>> what it is you're wanting....
>>
>
> This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring
> to. Meatloaves
> are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).
>
> http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg
>
> Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and
> baked until the
> pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
> _____________________________________________
>
> A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...LLINGTON&meta=

MoM

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:08:59p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or
> was it PastaLover?
>
>> Andy Katz wrote:
>>> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that
>>> would avoid
>>> cliche but still validate this American classic. I
>>> wasn't thinking of
>>> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the
>>> meatloaf in puff
>>> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue
>>> cheese.
>>>
>>> Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 &
>>> Under), only to
>>> learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I
>>> *think* I
>>> trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing
>>> any
>>> meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review
>>> alluded to
>>> (they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be
>>> the degree of
>>> control on the menu).
>>>
>>> Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it
>>> been
>>> appearing in comfort food venues?
>>>
>>> Andy Katz
>>
>> I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an
>> empanada, or a meat
>> pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has
>> something like
>> this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or
>> pastry encasing
>> a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>
> Meatloaf en croute is certainly none of the above. Each
> of them is unto
> themselves. I think Andy is picturing a meatloaf made
> with at least a
> pound or two of meat, not anything hand-held.
>
> Having said that, I absolutely love Cornish pasties.
> Empanadas are pretty
> good, too.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*


But, on the other hand. You could do it with mini loaf pans
and make individual Meatloaf Wellington.

Here are some recipes I found I'm sure you could substitute
your own meatloaf recipe.

-= Exported from BigOven =-

Campbell's Best Ever Meat Loaf

Recipe By:
Serving Size: 6
Cuisine:
Main Ingredient:


-= Ingredients =-
1 Can Condensed Cream of Mushroom Soup
or ; Golden Mushroom Soup
2 lbs. ground beef
1/2 cup fine dry breadcrumbs
1 egg, slightly beaten
1/3 cup finely chopped onion
1 tsp. salt
1/3 cup water

-= Instructions =-
Mix thoroughly 1/2 cup soup, beef, breadcrumbs,
egg, onion, and salt. Shape firmly into loaf
(8x4 inch); place in shallow baking pan. Bake
at 375 degrees for 1 hour, 15 minutes. In
saucepan, blend remaining soup, water, and 2 to
3 Tbs. drippings from pan. Heat, stir
occasionally. Spoon on top of loaf or serve in
gravy dish.



** This recipe can be pasted into BigOven without retyping.
**
** Easy recipe software. Try it free at:
http://www.bigoven.com **


-= Exported from BigOven =-

Meat Loaf Wellington

Recipe By:
Serving Size: 0
Cuisine:
Main Ingredient:
Categories: Beef, Hamburger, Pork, : Meats, : 8
Preparation Time :0:00

-= Ingredients =-
1 lb Ground beef
lb Ground veal
lb Ground pork
1 t Worcestershire sauce
2 Eggs
c Cracker crumbs
c Ketchup
c Warm water
1 pk Dry onion soup mix
4 Bacon strips
2 pk Crescent roll dough
1 Egg white ; lightly beaten
With 1 tbsp. water
Flour
ven to 350 deg rees.Mix meats together by hand in a large
bowl.Ad
tershire sauce eggs cracker crumbs ketchup water and soup
mix.
hand and shap e into a loaf in a shallow baking dish. ; For
cleanup
se non stick c ooking spray.) Drape the loaf with bacon
strips.Ba
1/2 2 hours or un til done. Cool 10 to 15 minutes. Separate
2 packag
nt roll dough into 6 rectangles ; 2 crescent forms make 1
gle).Reserve t he remaining 2 for decorating.Overlap the
triangle
e floured surf ace to make a large rectangle.Gently ; press
together the
and perforatio ns. Place over meat loaf and mold to fit.Trim
off
dough.Use rem aining rectangles to make a design for the top
; cookie
s may be used. Brush dough with egg white and return loaf to
the
to 20 minutes or until golden.Makes 6 to 8 servings.

-= Instructions =-



** This recipe can be pasted into BigOven without retyping.
**
** Easy recipe software. Try it free at:
http://www.bigoven.com **


-= Exported from BigOven =-

Meatloaf Wellington

Recipe By:
Serving Size: 8
Cuisine:
Main Ingredient:


-= Ingredients =-
2 pounds lean ground beef
1 cup fine ; dry breadcrumbs
3 tablespoons onion
finely ; chopped
1 can mushroom soup
2 eggs, lightly beaten
2 teaspoons steak sauce
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon pepper
1 (17 1/4-ounce) package frozen
puff ; pastry sheets
1 egg, lightly beaten

-= Instructions =-
Stir together first 8 ingredients
in a large bowl; press mixture into
a lightly greased 9 x 5 inch loafpan.
Bake at 375° for 45 to 50 minutes.
Invert onto a wire rack over a
shallow pan; let stand 10 minutes.

Unfold pastry sheets. Lap a short
edge of one pastry sheet 1 inch over
a short edge of second pastry sheet
on a lightly floured surface, and
press edges securely. Roll into an
18- x 10-inch rectangle. Place
meatloaf in center of pastry. Fold
pastry over meatloaf, covering
completely; trim excess pastry and
press edges to seal. Place meatloaf,
seam side down, on baking sheet,
and brush with 1 egg.

Bake at 425° for 20 minutes or
until brown.



** This recipe can be pasted into BigOven without retyping.
**
** Easy recipe software. Try it free at:
http://www.bigoven.com **

In article >,
Andy Katz > wrote:

> I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
> cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
> a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
> pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.


I've made this a couple of times. Well, actually not.

:-)


Sounds good, though.

I made the meat loaf. I like my meat loaf in a big pan (9X12) with
space around the edges. It's pretty thin, and shaped so it gets brown
without any edges getting too burned. After it is cooked, I take it out
and let it set for a couple of minutes. I transfer to another big pan
using a couple of spatulas. I don't want that fat soaking into the
topping. I don't remember, the topping came out of a tube, maybe
biscuits or crescent rolls. Homemade would be better, but I'm not a
baker. The dough needs to be stretched to fit. Back in the oven until
the dough is cooked.

It was good. I may try it again. Or not.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA