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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil

So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
until everything else is exhausted.

So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.

I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.

I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:

upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
nausea


As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
there! First side effect: stomach upset!

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
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"Dan Abel" > wrote

> As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
> binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
> there! First side effect: stomach upset!


Man, the cure is worse than the ailment, it seems. Think the dr
could have warned you? Maybe the idea is, if you don't eat your
cholesterol might go down.

Sorry you've been feeling ill.

nancy


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel > wrote:

>So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
>that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
>until everything else is exhausted.
>
>So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
>cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
>what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
>diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
>it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
>I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
>me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
>prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
>prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
>US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
>100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
>generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
>
>I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
>to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
>This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
>should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
>
>upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
>nausea
>
>
>As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
>binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
>there! First side effect: stomach upset!



If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
problem is you. Find another doctor.

Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
are valuable in treating lipid problems.

Boron
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Paul M. Cook
 
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"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
> that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
> until everything else is exhausted.
>
> So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
> cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
> what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
> diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
> it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
> I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
> me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
> prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
> prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
> US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
> 100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
> generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
>
> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
> to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
> This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
> should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
>
> upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
> nausea
>
>
> As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
> binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
> there! First side effect: stomach upset!
>



I had the same effect with Advicor. Since I am now also type II, early
stage, I have very high trigyclerides. Tested at 1080. Yes, 1080. The
Advicor made me feel like my brain was plugged plus I later developed kidney
pain. So now I'm on a new one starting today. They all have really bad
side effects in some people. I'm wondering if the cure is worse than the
disease.

Paul


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:


> Man, the cure is worse than the ailment, it seems.


There's a reason these drugs are only available by prescription and have
a two page flyer that comes with them. They have side effects and such.


> Sorry you've been feeling ill.



Thanks. I'm really hoping that once I stop taking this that my stomach
will come back down to earth.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:


> If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
> listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
> problem is you. Find another doctor.



I'm generally pretty happy with him. When you don't feel well,
sometimes you just want to whine.


> Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
> are valuable in treating lipid problems.



Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
I don't advise it.

:-)

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
notbob
 
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On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel > wrote:

> a two page flyer that comes with them.


Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.

nb
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dean G.
 
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>
> Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.



Unfortunately, the alternative isn't too atractive either...


Dean G.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel > wrote:

>So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
>that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
>until everything else is exhausted.
>

I'd love to know what kind of kick-back
doctors get from drug companys.

When I moved to AZ and found a new doctor,
he insisted on tests, then; "Your cholesterol is a little high,
so we'll put you on this "lifetime" drug."

( In some drug company, the BINGO-JACKPOT alarm goes off again. )

I respectfully declined. He seemed shocked !

I'd love to see how they arrive at the out-of-range numbers.
Then, I want to see the stats of
exactly how much heart disease the drug actually prevented.

I feel the cholesterol pill is like
the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
You never really know if it works.
( sceptical of all things medical since the drug advertising blitz )

.....and...should I ask my doctor if Lumitra is "right for me" ???

<rj>
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
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<RJ> wrote:


> I'd love to see how they arrive at the out-of-range numbers.
> Then, I want to see the stats of
> exactly how much heart disease the drug actually prevented.
>
> I feel the cholesterol pill is like
> the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
> You never really know if it works.
> ( sceptical of all things medical since the drug advertising blitz )
>
> ....and...should I ask my doctor if Lumitra is "right for me" ???
>
> <rj>


Actually, those statins have been pretty well proven. It is one drug
that some people shouldn't do without.
Goomba


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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In article <y1c7f.12047$i31.11298@trnddc08>,
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote:


> I had the same effect with Advicor. Since I am now also type II, early
> stage, I have very high trigyclerides. Tested at 1080. Yes, 1080. The



I've been on this stuff for so long I don't even remember how long.
Tris last time before this (can't find the last one) were 138.

I've had dosage increases, and maybe I'm not on exactly the same stuff I
started with. It's just the latest that is causing stomach problems.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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In article >,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" > wrote:


> Dan, I take Zocor every night at bedtime. I have never had a problem with
> it except the first couple of days I took it. I had muscle cramps but they


Now that you mention it, I've been having muscle cramps also.

:-)

Are you on 80mg?


> went away. So far, so good with me. BTW, my copay for Zocor is $50 US for
> 30 pills vs the $10 if I could find a generic.



My doctor claimed that it was going generic soon.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Abel
 
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In article >,
"<RJ>" > wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> >So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
> >that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
> >until everything else is exhausted.
> >

> I'd love to know what kind of kick-back
> doctors get from drug companys.



Something tells me that he wasn't getting much of a kickback to tell me
that he wouldn't give me more drugs.

:-)



> I feel the cholesterol pill is like
> the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
> You never really know if it works.



Certainly. You don't know if it works, but the statistics say that it
helps.

I am increasingly unhappy with "pay for service" medicine. The more
service, the more pay. I belong to an HMO, and the doctors are on
straight salary.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:26:48 GMT, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> Boron Elgar > wrote:
>
>
>> If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
>> listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
>> problem is you. Find another doctor.

>
>
>I'm generally pretty happy with him. When you don't feel well,
>sometimes you just want to whine.


Well understood, then,
>
>
>> Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
>> are valuable in treating lipid problems.

>
>
>Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
>I don't advise it.
>
>:-)


Think of the alternatives!

I wander the earth courtesy of the miracles of modern medicine and
believe me, I am no spring chicken!

Do keep at your MD about the BG readings, though. If your readings are
so off that you are not feeling well, he really needs to help you
tweak your meds. Some docs are more laissez faire than others. I am
fortunate in having one who lets me treat my T2 almost like a T1...I
have 5 meds to choose from and I dose depending on how my readings
are. There are not too many MDS that will play that game, but since my
Hba1C is usually 5.6 or so, she knows it works for me. That is
key...finding what works for you.

Best of luck.

Boron


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michel Boucher
 
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Dan Abel > wrote in
:

> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker.


Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
the first six months switched me to Crestor which is giving me better
results. My cholesterol has been well below the line since then.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
kalanamak
 
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Puester wrote:

> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
>


I have a new imagine of middle age, because of a happy turn of events
this weekend: when we are young, our friends abound with good news: a
school gotten into, a degree, a child, some exciting author, a cross
country car trip in a 65 Impala...etc. In middle age there is more
silence, or there is bad news: the life of the party turns into a drunk,
divorce, apathy, avid readers who talk about TV, etc.
This weekend, an old college chum I'd lost track of because of the
moroseness and silence he had decended into has rebounded now the sickly
parents he cared for for years have died....house painted, incontinent
animals gone, art work on the walls, a twinkle in his eye. Ah, I said,
one saved from the maw of middle age!
blacksalt
OBFood: Saturday was a beautiful day at the Oly Farmer's Market. Just
off the water at the southern tip of the Puget Sound, a tarry breeze
mixed with roasting nuts and smoked meats. Bins and bins of apples, and
homemade cheese so wonderful...
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Puester
 
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Dan Abel wrote:
The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.
>
> :-)
>


Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!

If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
myself hard to make sure I'm alive.

FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....

:-(
gloria p
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
itsjoannotjoann
 
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Puester wrote:
>
> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of.
>
> gloria p



I also take Lipitor, with no side affects. At night I also take 1
caplet of 500 milligrams of Niaspan. These two medications have
brought my cholesterol down to 135. Triglycerides are 99, HDL (good
stuff) is 45, and the LDL (bad stuff) is 70.

If you are having cramps, by all means talk to your doctor! I had a
friend who also had cramps (arms) from Zocor and constant, and I do
mean constant, gas from the medication. His doctor switched him and
evidently Zocor is not for you. There's other medication to can take
to lower your cholesterol.

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gregory Morrow
 
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Puester wrote:

> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.



Yeah, when a week goes by without an ache or pain of some type it's a
blessing ;-p


> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
> did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....



Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?

--
Best
Greg


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
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"notbob" > wrote

> On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>> a two page flyer that comes with them.

>
> Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
> a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
> jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.


I had a horrible reaction to steroids once, you couldn't read
the list of side effects without eagle vision. I for sure was in
no condition to read it, all that pain and those wacky hallucinations,
dontcha know ... I know, you're supposed to read it first.
Gimme a break, think of *any* possible side effect, it was on
there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
and it's side effects.

Just a little advice for next time.

nancy




  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
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"<RJ>" > wrote

> When I moved to AZ and found a new doctor,
> he insisted on tests, then; "Your cholesterol is a little high,
> so we'll put you on this "lifetime" drug."
>
> ( In some drug company, the BINGO-JACKPOT alarm goes off again. )
>
> I respectfully declined. He seemed shocked !


Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller coaster.

Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if people
do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
back up there, partner.

nancy



  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
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"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote

> On Mon 24 Oct 2005 09:32:46p, Nancy Young wrote in rec.food.cooking:


>> there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
>> and it's side effects.
>>
>> Just a little advice for next time.

>
> And good advice it is. The drugstore we use does supply easy to read
> enclosures with our prescriptions and they seem to be very complete.
> However, I almost always go to the web for whatever information is
> available on a drug.


Yeah, and in print size you can read.

nancy


  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Wayne Boatwright
 
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On Mon 24 Oct 2005 09:32:46p, Nancy Young wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> "notbob" > wrote
>
>> On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel > wrote:
>>
>>> a two page flyer that comes with them.

>>
>> Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
>> a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
>> jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.

>
> I had a horrible reaction to steroids once, you couldn't read
> the list of side effects without eagle vision. I for sure was in
> no condition to read it, all that pain and those wacky hallucinations,
> dontcha know ... I know, you're supposed to read it first.
> Gimme a break, think of *any* possible side effect, it was on
> there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
> and it's side effects.
>
> Just a little advice for next time.


And good advice it is. The drugstore we use does supply easy to read
enclosures with our prescriptions and they seem to be very complete.
However, I almost always go to the web for whatever information is
available on a drug.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________

http://tinypic.com/eikz78.jpg

Meet Mr. Bailey
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Stark
 
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In article >, Nancy Young
> wrote:

> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller coaster.
>
> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if people
> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
> back up there, partner.
>
> nancy
>
>

Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.

I'm blessed in needing no perpetual prescriptions. But once I did
develop some joint pain. I sold my sedan, buying a convertible and the
pain went away. There were some warnings, but so far I've had no side
effects.
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark > wrote:

>In article >, Nancy Young
> wrote:
>
>> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
>> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
>> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
>> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller coaster.
>>
>> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
>> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if people
>> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> back up there, partner.
>>
>> nancy
>>
>>

>Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.


If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.

What lifetime drugs were prescribed for ulcers before then? The
general treatment was palliative, along with diet and lifestyle
changes.

>I'm blessed in needing no perpetual prescriptions. But once I did
>develop some joint pain. I sold my sedan, buying a convertible and the
>pain went away. There were some warnings, but so far I've had no side
>effects.


Your not needing medications to live is irrelevant to this discussion.

Boron


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
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Stark wrote:


> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.


Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
Goomba
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
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Goomba38 wrote:

> Stark wrote:
>
>
>> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.

>
>
> Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
> Goomba


Oh geeez, my mistake in posting after a long night. BACTERIA... SOME
ulcers are caused by naughty bacteria (H. pylori) Erase that "virus"
word I repeated off Stark's post please.
Going to bed now.
Goomba
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:48:42 -0400, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>Goomba38 wrote:
>
>> Stark wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>>> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>>> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>>> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.

>>
>>
>> Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
>> Goomba

>
>Oh geeez, my mistake in posting after a long night. BACTERIA... SOME
>ulcers are caused by naughty bacteria (H. pylori) Erase that "virus"
>word I repeated off Stark's post please.
>Going to bed now.
>Goomba



I'd still choose you to be my nurse anytime. I just hope it wouldn't
be for your specialty!

Boron
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
alsandor
 
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RoR a écrit :

> >Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
> >had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
> >the first six months switched me to Crestor which is giving me better
> >results. My cholesterol has been well below the line since then.

>
> My doc just took me off Lipitor. I was having muscle pain and general
> lethargy. I have been on it for years, but now I am getting side effects?


What is possible is that your dose is too high. When I was taking
Zocor, I believe the dose was 30mg. Lipitor was about the same but
that was 8 or 9 years ago. I do recall a lessening of libido with
lipitor. There are reports that the 40mg dose of Crestor causes some
side effects of concern but none so far have been noted with the 20mg
dose.

Of course, any signs of fatigue and muscle aches are usually attributed
to my advancing age (nearing 60). As long as it's

a. a reasonable explanation,
b. does not become worse, and
c. the medication is generally life preserving

then I tend to agree that it's just a result of age and a sedentary
life style. After all, I felt these things before I took the statin.

Also, keep in mind that one person reacting badly does not mean
everyone will have the same reaction. We just finished dealing with
chemical hysteria with the "teflon is bad for you" debate and part of
what was revealed was that the teflon in the particular case was
probably being misused.

I refuse to be paranoid about medication. Besides, I have to stay
alive for the next 30-40 years just to **** off Wolfie :-)

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil


"Stark" > wrote

> In article >, Nancy Young


>> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> back up there, partner.


> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.


I remember some discussion that the h pilori (sp, etc) might be a
culprit of Crohn's disease, as well.

> I'm blessed in needing no perpetual prescriptions. But once I did
> develop some joint pain. I sold my sedan, buying a convertible and the
> pain went away. There were some warnings, but so far I've had no side
> effects.


Man, then I really need a convertible.

nancy




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Puester
 
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Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil

Gregory Morrow wrote:

>
> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>


Yes.

gloria p
  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil


"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Dan Abel


No kidding Dick Tracy where did you get the clue.

To the middle aged out there do your best to avoid getting old. It ain't all its
cracked up to be.

Dimitri



  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil


"Puester" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
> The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
>> I don't advise it.
>>
>> :-)
>>

>
> Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!
>
> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
>
> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
> did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
>
> :-(
> gloria p


Ya me too gout that is - In order, the things that aggravate the uric acid build
up (AKA The Gout)

Alcohol
Coffee
Not enough water
Diet. (shellfish etc)

Dimitri




  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil

Boron Elgar wrote:


> I'd still choose you to be my nurse anytime. I just hope it wouldn't
> be for your specialty!
>
> Boron


I'm honored
And yes, my speciality (trauma) isn't always the best way to meet a nurse.
Good article on Boston.com about ICU nurses at Mass Gen (four part
series). I'll share it here in hopes of promoting nursing a bit

http://www.boston.com/news/special/n...rt1/page1.html
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil

Puester wrote:

> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>>
>> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry
>> juice a
>> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>>

>
> Yes.
>
> gloria p


I knew a man once (cellular biologist, who taught at med school and
should have known better) who preferred to take steroids during his gout
flair ups instead of allopurinol. I thought he was nuts!! Steroids are
wayyyyy more risky in my book compared to allopurinol.


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil


"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> Puester wrote:
>
>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
>>> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>>>

>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> gloria p

>
> I knew a man once (cellular biologist, who taught at med school and should
> have known better) who preferred to take steroids during his gout flair ups
> instead of allopurinol. I thought he was nuts!! Steroids are wayyyyy more
> risky in my book compared to allopurinol.


What absolutely "cured the gout in me in less that 12 hours was 100 mg of Vioxx
and they pull the stuff from the market. It was amazing....

Hobbled into bed with Ice Packs to freeze the area - got up in the morning it
was gone.

Dimitri


  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Goomba38
 
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Dimitri wrote:

> What absolutely "cured the gout in me in less that 12 hours was 100 mg of Vioxx
> and they pull the stuff from the market. It was amazing....


Yeah, I've heard that before! A lot of people felt Vioxx was the only
drug that worked for their various aches and pains, particularly
arthritis. Some have yet to find adequate replacement meds.
Goomba
  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Paul M. Cook
 
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"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark > wrote:
>
> >In article >, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
> >> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
> >> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
> >> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller

coaster.
> >>
> >> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
> >> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if

people
> >> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
> >> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
> >> back up there, partner.
> >>
> >> nancy
> >>
> >>

> >Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> >out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> >which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> >in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.

>
> If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
> you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
> called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
> Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
> 30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
> early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.



The treatment involves bismuth and tetracycline. Both very common
medications and have been around for decades. So yes, probably even in the
60s ulcers could have been cured with available technology.

And the whole reason it took so long for this to become a common treatment
is that the drug companies were very effective in suppressing any research
that would have led to treatments not involving their very expensive
medications. It is not a coincidence that ulcer cures were finally approved
in this country when patents for ulcer drugs like Zantac ran out and the
meds were sold over the counter.

Cures are not nearly so profitable as the disease. Keep the patient sick by
only treating symptoms and you have a customer for life. That is the way it
works in this country and many others. Not to digress too far but this is
also why marijuana is a long way from being legally prescribed despite it
having proven and valuable therapuetic properties. It's just too cheap to
make, it's just a simple plant and you can't patent it.

Paul


  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
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"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> Dimitri wrote:
>
>> What absolutely "cured the gout in me in less that 12 hours was 100 mg of
>> Vioxx and they pull the stuff from the market. It was amazing....

>
> Yeah, I've heard that before! A lot of people felt Vioxx was the only drug
> that worked for their various aches and pains, particularly arthritis. Some
> have yet to find adequate replacement meds.
> Goomba


Shhhh I sandbagged some just in case. IIRC the problem was with long term use.

Dimitri


  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
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Default Zocor - evil, evil, evil

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:39 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >, Nancy Young
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
>> >> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
>> >> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
>> >> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller

>coaster.
>> >>
>> >> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
>> >> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if

>people
>> >> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> >> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> >> back up there, partner.
>> >>
>> >> nancy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>> >out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>> >which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>> >in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.

>>
>> If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
>> you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
>> called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
>> Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
>> 30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
>> early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.

>
>
>The treatment involves bismuth and tetracycline. Both very common
>medications and have been around for decades. So yes, probably even in the
>60s ulcers could have been cured with available technology.


The sentence" a thirty-year-old study which proved ulcers were a viral
infection ..." Was quoted. Since the "proof" came in 1982, a study 30
years earlier would have been 1952. The patent for tetracycline was
issued in 1955.

Treatment is complicated, even today. You may refer to the link below
to see more than my quote:

'H. pylori peptic ulcers are treated with drugs that kill the
bacteria, reduce stomach acid, and protect the stomach lining.
Antibiotics are used to kill the bacteria. Two types of
acid-suppressing drugs might be used: H2 blockers and proton pump
inhibitors.'

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddise...ubs/hpylori/#8


>And the whole reason it took so long for this to become a common treatment
>is that the drug companies were very effective in suppressing any research
>that would have led to treatments not involving their very expensive
>medications. It is not a coincidence that ulcer cures were finally approved
>in this country when patents for ulcer drugs like Zantac ran out and the
>meds were sold over the counter.


Bullshit. Provide citations or zip it. Ranitidine was still in patent
when antibiotics were being used for certain ulcers.

>Cures are not nearly so profitable as the disease. Keep the patient sick by
>only treating symptoms and you have a customer for life. That is the way it
>works in this country and many others. Not to digress too far but this is
>also why marijuana is a long way from being legally prescribed despite it
>having proven and valuable therapuetic properties. It's just too cheap to
>make, it's just a simple plant and you can't patent it.


Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?

I dun thin so, Lucy.

But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.

Boron
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