"...there are serious barriers to making such a transition to EV's, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have...Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers..."


https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti..._6 58924.html

Electric Vehicles and Their Drawbacks, Chapter II
By Geoffrey Pohanka February 02, 2021

This article follows Chapter I of Geoffreys electric vehicle (EV) series:
https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti...ks_654808.html

There is a growing push in the U.S. and throughout much of the developed world to convert transportation from a primary reliance on fossil fuels to an almost-exclusive use of renewable energy (wind and solar). With this goal come promises of unlimited clean and free energy, the creation of millions of green jobs, and the benefit of helping save the planet from an imminent climate catastrophe.

Even if those promises are accurate, there are serious barriers to making such a transition, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have. If consumers are disappointed with EV options, they will simply keep their older, more fuel-inefficient, less safe, and more polluting gasoline/diesel-powered vehicles, which today average over eleven years of age. Keeping their old cars would affect the economy, since millions of jobs are dependent on vehicle manufacturing and sales.

In my December article on EV charging times, I sampled Volkswagens Electrify America fast-charging network. Driving a 2021 Hyundai Kona Ultimate EV, with its 250 miles of fully charged range, I found that to achieve an 80% charge required over one hours time. With the 80 miles I drive on average every day, this would require a charge at least every other day, adding up to over 200 hours each year, assuming a charging station was both available and conveniently located. Fueling the gasoline-powered Hyundai Genesis that I normally drive requires less than five minutes, and the car has twice the range of my Kona EV. Charging would become a major inconvenience if I did not have access to a home charger.

I then decided to try another large public, non-Tesla, super-charging network €“ EVgo. Both EVgo and Electrify America have apps that provide various functions including station locations. Both provide membership discounts. Electrify America does a good job communicating via texts while you are charging, and EVgos app provides access to your complete charging history. I could use my credit card at the Electrify America charging station, but to use some EVgo chargers, one must first acquire a swipe card.

At the EVgo charging station at a major-area shopping center, I saw two charging towers with four cords. Two 50 kWh cords fit the Nissan Leaf and two cords fit my Hyundai Kona. I plugged my car in, swiped the card over the reader, and began charging. The charger screen said that with my 11% safety range that I drove in with, an 80% charge would require one hour and 17 minutes. I was prepared, though, and used this idle time to finish reading a book, watch part of a Netflix series, and even close my eyes for a few minutes. After a while, something did not seem right. Looking at the screen on the charger, I saw that my session had ended about 20 minutes earlier. My car had apparently not received its full 80% charge. Wanting to complete my charge, I simply started a new session and 25 minutes later drove back to the office. I wasnt sure why I was unable to get the full 80% charge and decided to try the same charger again a few days later to see if that session would be any different.

The second time I visited the same EVgo 50kW charging station, the session ended after 45 minutes. My battery had achieved only a 65% charge with a 163-mile range (less if I need to use my vehicles heater). This is considerably less than the 250-mile maximum range of a fully charged battery or the approximately 200-mile range of an 80% charged battery. I then called the EZgo toll-free number on the charging station. EZgo cutely names each of its chargers, and mine was named Ladarius. The EVgo operator promptly answered, and I described my charging experience. I was not expecting to hear that the charging session is supposed to end at 45 minutes because charging for longer would damage my vehicles battery. €œIf you charge your car over 45 minutes, your battery will be worth nothing in a year.€� I knew that this information was inaccurate; I thanked the operator and ended the call. This charging session required one hour and 53 minutes, including the 40-minute round trip between my office and the charging station.

Arriving back at work, I again called the EVgo 800 number. The operator this time said that the chargers were designed to provide only a 45-minute charge. I asked why. They responded that there might be people in line waiting to use the charger.

The EVgo website states that vehicles can be nearly fully charged (to 80%) in under 30 minutes using their fast chargers. This was not my experience. My 80% charge, if I could get one, would require one hour and 17 minutes, according to the EVgo screen. The EVgo website also explains that it provides only 45-minute charging sessions, though 60-minute sessions, from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m., were available for a $7.99 monthly subscription.

If I had to solely rely on EVgo for charging my Hyundai Kona Ultimate EV with its 250-mile maximum range, and following the EVgo €œetiquette,€� I would have to operate with a 165-mile range and only 145 miles of that usable range, allowing for a 20-mile safety cushion. Driving a minimum of 80 miles each day back and forth to work, I could not even drive two round trips without having to recharge the battery.

I found the Electrify America charging network superior to EVgo. Electrify America provides a full 80% charge. EVgo charges 30 cents per minute, and the cost to charge my Kona per kWh was between 40 and 44 cents. With the $7.99 per-month membership, the cost is reduced 10%. A non-member using Electrify America pays 43 cents per kWh and 31 cents per kWh with a $4 monthly membership fee. Power costs might vary among states.

I have ordered the Volkswagen ID.4 EV 1st Edition model SUV and look forward to its delivery this spring. The ID.4 comes with three years of free charging using the Electrify America network, a 250-mile range, and a more rapid rate of charge. I believe that the ID.4 will be a winner, both from a cost and performance standpoint. I will put it to the test once I have it.

Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...



Geoffrey Pohanka is a third-generation automobile dealer. He is chairman of the Pohanka Automotive Group in Capitol Heights, Maryland.

On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
>
> "...there are serious barriers to making such a transition to EV's, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have...Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers..."
>
>
> https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti..._6 58924.html
>

Get back to me in 20 years. I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
charge using either AC or heat. 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
work. I have to stop that often now for gas.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:18:28 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
>>
>> "...there are serious barriers to making such a transition to EV's, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have...Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers..."
>>
>>
>> https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti..._6 58924.html
>>
>
> Get back to me in 20 years. I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
> charge using either AC or heat. 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
> work. I have to stop that often now for gas.

But, I'll be bound, more often for a pee!

Graham wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:18:28 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
> >>
> >> "...there are serious barriers to making such a transition to EV's, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have...Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers..."
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti..._6 58924.html
> >>
> >
> > Get back to me in 20 years. I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
> > charge using either AC or heat. 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
> > work. I have to stop that often now for gas.
> But, I'll be bound, more often for a pee!


The "Iron Lady" put it best, Graham...!!!

€œI am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end....€�

ۥ Margaret Thatcher

:-D

--
Best
Greg

On 2021-02-08 3:18 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:

>
> Get back to me in 20 years.Â* I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
> charge using either AC or heat.Â* 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
> work. I have to stop that often now for gas.

A guy in our kayak club went on a trip from his house down here in
Niagara up to North Bay, 425 km. He got as far as Huntsville, about
300km, because he knew he could not make it all the way, and there was
no sure place to recharge before his destination. Then he had to make a
stop on his return trip. An ICE powered car would have made it all the
way on a tank of gas, saving the time of having to stopping for a time
consuming recharge.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 16:30:27 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2021-02-08 3:18 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
>
>>
>> Get back to me in 20 years.* I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
>> charge using either AC or heat.* 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
>> work. I have to stop that often now for gas.
>
> A guy in our kayak club went on a trip from his house down here in
> Niagara up to North Bay, 425 km. He got as far as Huntsville, about
> 300km, because he knew he could not make it all the way, and there was
> no sure place to recharge before his destination. Then he had to make a
> stop on his return trip. An ICE powered car would have made it all the
> way on a tank of gas, saving the time of having to stopping for a time
> consuming recharge.

The UK is encouraging the change to EVs by eliminating the high "purchase
tax" on more expensive cars and also eliminating the annual road tax (= our
annual licence fee).

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:29:21 -0700, Graham wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:18:28 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
>>>
>>> "...there are serious barriers to making such a transition to EV's, especially in our consumer-driven economy. To replace the current gasoline/diesel-powered fleets, consumers would expect electric-vehicle range, cost, and fueling times to be somewhat similar to what they now have...Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers..."
>>>
>>> https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti..._6 58924.html
>>>
>>
>> Get back to me in 20 years. I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
>> charge using either AC or heat. 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
>> work. I have to stop that often now for gas.
>
> But, I'll be bound, more often for a pee!

You could wear diapers like that NASA lady did as she was stalking
her husband (what WAS that story? It came and went so quick I forgot
the details)

-sw

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
[a bunch of quoted crap]

Funny how all the naysayers are dependent on ICE vehicles, eh?

I LOVE my EV! So **** EM! :-)

And I never hardly buy ANY GASOLINE! Think of the money and environment I save!

John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

On 2/8/2021 4:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-08 3:18 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 2/8/2021 11:27 AM, wrote:
>
>>
>> Get back to me in 20 years.Â* I need at least 800 to 900 miles on a
>> charge using either AC or heat.Â* 400 miles on a 10 minute charge would
>> work. I have to stop that often now for gas.
>
> A guy in our kayak club went on a trip from his house down here in
> Niagara up to North Bay, 425 km. He got as far as Huntsville, about
> 300km, because he knew he could not make it all the way, and there was
> no sure place to recharge before his destination. Then he had to make a
> stop on his return trip. An ICE powered car would have made it all the
> way on a tank of gas, saving the time of having to stopping for a time
> consuming recharge.

It is not so much the distance but the time to charge. I stop ever 1
1/2 to 2 hours but just hit the rest room and go. One the first day I
do 800 miles, the next day 400 and arrive in time for lunch.

Going too long you are also adding to the possibility of a DVT so a
little movement is good. I'm more conscience of them since my brother
died from one after a long air trip.

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
....
> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...

ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!

ROFL!! ;-)


John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

On 2/8/2021 11:17 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
> ...
>> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...
>
> ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!
>
> ROFL!! ;-)
>
>
> John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
>

Please explain. You still have to plug it in.

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:33:09 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/8/2021 11:17 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
> > ...
> >> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...
> >
> > ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!
> >
> > ROFL!! ;-)
> >
> >
> > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> >
> Please explain. You still have to plug it in.


John has solar panels on his car roof...

--
Best
Greg

On 2021-02-08 11:17 p.m., John Kuthe wrote:
> On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
> ...
>> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...
>
> ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!
>

That's pretty cool. I had no idea that a battery powered car could
charge itself. That sounds magical.

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
....
> >
> That's pretty cool. I had no idea that a battery powered car could
> charge itself. That sounds magical.

Of course you have to Plug It In. And also Turn It On! No, solar panels will not do it, but 110VAC or 220VAC will.

And NO PETROLEUM!


John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 9:27:48 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-08 11:17 p.m., John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
> > ...
> >> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...
> >
> > ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!
> >
> That's pretty cool. I had no idea that a battery powered car could
> charge itself. That sounds magical.

You have a generator attached that uses the rotation of the car's wheels to
charge the battery. Voila! Perpetual motion.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-02-09 9:35 a.m., John Kuthe wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> ...
>>>
>> That's pretty cool. I had no idea that a battery powered car could
>> charge itself. That sounds magical.
>
> Of course you have to Plug It In. And also Turn It On! No, solar panels will not do it, but 110VAC or 220VAC will.
>
> And NO PETROLEUM!
>

Well then, how the hell does it charge itself?

On 2021-02-09 9:53 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 9:27:48 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-02-08 11:17 p.m., John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-6, GM wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Unless battery-charging times are significantly reduced and the network of available charging stations is substantially increased, EV consumers will find it challenging to rely primarily on public fast-chargers. President Bidens pledge to construct 500,000 additional fast-charging stations would provide greater access to rapid-charger locations but will not reduce charging times. Clearly at-home/at-work charging is vastly superior to the public fast-charging network. I can only imagine how many additional chargers the government would need to acquire to charge the 645,000 vehicles in the government fleet if it switched them all to EVs. Charging at home or work is the preferred method, and the same would hold true of the government fleet. Charging every third day, the government might have to install as many as 215,000 chargers, or more, just for its own vehicles...
>>>
>>> ROFL! This moron failed to realize my Leaf at least has it's own charger BUILT INTO THE CAR!
>>>
>> That's pretty cool. I had no idea that a battery powered car could
>> charge itself. That sounds magical.
>
> You have a generator attached that uses the rotation of the car's wheels to
> charge the battery. Voila! Perpetual motion.
>


Ah.. that's right up there with an hydro powered generator powering an
electric fan to blow wind into the sails of a ship. Brilliant.

On 2/8/2021 8:27 AM, Idiot KOOKthe wrote:

> "...there

NOBODY CARES, DUMB****!

You're still an unemployable failure and always will be!

You are a waste of air.

Nobody gives a shit about your house.
Nobody gives a shit about your sound system.
Nobody gives a shit about your car.
Nobody gives a shit about your exercise.
Nobody gives a shit about your chronic unemployment.
Nobody gives a shit about your mental illness.
Nobody gives a shit about your life.

NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHUT THE **** UP AND LEAVE!

On 2/8/2021 3:39 PM, Idiot KOOKthe wrote:

> Fu

NOBODY CARES, DUMB****!

You're still an unemployable failure and always will be!

You are a waste of air.

Nobody gives a shit about your house.
Nobody gives a shit about your sound system.
Nobody gives a shit about your car.
Nobody gives a shit about your exercise.
Nobody gives a shit about your chronic unemployment.
Nobody gives a shit about your mental illness.
Nobody gives a shit about your life.

NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHUT THE **** UP AND LEAVE!