On 2021 Jan 25, , Boron Elgar wrote
(in >):

> Bovard is hardly a neutral source, which you should comprehend before
> recommending him, and with a tiny bit of reading yourself, maybe 10
> minutes' worth, you'd know that Marxism and Communism, as political
> philosophies, are rather delightful, but when used as title only for
> populist, despotic or dictatorial regimes with wholly differing
> practices, millions get killed.

The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
philosophies. I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
re-google?
The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
single human being ever born.Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
Individuals simply don´t work that way.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:21:22 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2021 Jan 25, , Boron Elgar wrote
>(in >):
>
>> Bovard is hardly a neutral source, which you should comprehend before
>> recommending him, and with a tiny bit of reading yourself, maybe 10
>> minutes' worth, you'd know that Marxism and Communism, as political
>> philosophies, are rather delightful, but when used as title only for
>> populist, despotic or dictatorial regimes with wholly differing
>> practices, millions get killed.
>
>The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
>philosophies. I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
>under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
>re-google?
>The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
>and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
>single human being ever born.Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
>Individuals simply don´t work that way.

Apart from blaming Marx for all those dead people, I agree with you.
Where you go wrong is when you think that your Democratic party has
anything to do with Marxism, socialism or communism. That's you buying
into shock jock drivel and over the top right-wing spin. It's mass
hysteria.

On 2021 Jan 27, , Master Bruce wrote
(in >):

> Apart from blaming Marx for all those dead people, I agree with you.
> Where you go wrong is when you think that your Democratic party has
> anything to do with Marxism, socialism or communism. That's you buying
> into shock jock drivel and over the top right-wing spin. It's mass
> hysteria.

You´re not speaking like a lumpenprole. Reevaluate yourself. I will be
folding early tonight.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:21:22 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2021 Jan 25, , Boron Elgar wrote
>(in >):
>
>> Bovard is hardly a neutral source, which you should comprehend before
>> recommending him, and with a tiny bit of reading yourself, maybe 10
>> minutes' worth, you'd know that Marxism and Communism, as political
>> philosophies, are rather delightful, but when used as title only for
>> populist, despotic or dictatorial regimes with wholly differing
>> practices, millions get killed.
>
>The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
>philosophies.

Nope. Not Marxist philosophies at all. Dictatorships who liked to use
the term, even though it did not apply. Kinda like the dumb****s who
go around calling the Nazis socialists.

>I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
>under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
>re-google?

I deny the claim. No need to verify a number of a false statement, eh?

>The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
>and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
>single human being ever born.

Nor is that claimed by Marx.

>Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
>Individuals simply don´t work that way.

It ain't been tried.

Since you seem to know dick-squat about any of this, why do you keep
blabbering?

On 2021-01-27 8:21 p.m., Leo wrote:
> On 2021 Jan 25, , Boron Elgar wrote
> (in >):
>
>> Bovard is hardly a neutral source, which you should comprehend before
>> recommending him, and with a tiny bit of reading yourself, maybe 10
>> minutes' worth, you'd know that Marxism and Communism, as political
>> philosophies, are rather delightful, but when used as title only for
>> populist, despotic or dictatorial regimes with wholly differing
>> practices, millions get killed.
>
> The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
> philosophies. I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
> under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
> re-google?
> The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
> and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
> single human being ever born.Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
> Individuals simply don´t work that way.
>
>
Right wing governments have been pretty good at slaughtering people too.
The Nazis were responsible for the killing at least 6 million Jews,
Gypsies homosexuals, intellects and others who they considered to be
undesirable. They also killed millions in combat.The Japanese
slaughtered roughly 300,000 in Nanking alone. Nationalist Chinese
killed more than a million soldiers and another million civilians during
the civil war. In Spain there were about 5 times as many Communists
killed than right wingers. About 140,000 Spanish "disappeared" after
their civil war. There were as many as a million leftists killed in
Indonesia. Hundreds of thousands have been killed in central and south
America.

You may or may not be right about the 100 million killed by communist
regimes. They may or may not have killed more people than the right
wingers. They left may have killed more people than the right, but
neither side holds a monopoly.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:14:42 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2021 Jan 27, , Master Bruce wrote
>(in >):
>
>> Apart from blaming Marx for all those dead people, I agree with you.
>> Where you go wrong is when you think that your Democratic party has
>> anything to do with Marxism, socialism or communism. That's you buying
>> into shock jock drivel and over the top right-wing spin. It's mass
>> hysteria.
>
>You´re not speaking like a lumpenprole.

Maybe I should address you as guv'nor or squire. And drop the master.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 21:23:53 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:21:22 -0800, Leo >
>wrote:
>
>>The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
>>philosophies.
>
>Nope. Not Marxist philosophies at all. Dictatorships who liked to use
>the term, even though it did not apply. Kinda like the dumb****s who
>go around calling the Nazis socialists.
>
>>I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
>>under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
>>re-google?
>
>I deny the claim. No need to verify a number of a false statement, eh?
>
>>The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
>>and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
>>single human being ever born.
>
>Nor is that claimed by Marx.
>
>>Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
>>Individuals simply don´t work that way.
>
>It ain't been tried.
>
>Since you seem to know dick-squat about any of this, why do you keep
>blabbering?

I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
around. I wonder where this started.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 21:26:55 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Right wing governments have been pretty good at slaughtering people too.
>The Nazis were responsible for the killing at least 6 million Jews,
>Gypsies homosexuals, intellects and others who they considered to be
>undesirable. They also killed millions in combat.The Japanese
>slaughtered roughly 300,000 in Nanking alone. Nationalist Chinese
>killed more than a million soldiers and another million civilians during
>the civil war. In Spain there were about 5 times as many Communists
>killed than right wingers. About 140,000 Spanish "disappeared" after
>their civil war. There were as many as a million leftists killed in
>Indonesia. Hundreds of thousands have been killed in central and south
>America.
>
>You may or may not be right about the 100 million killed by communist
>regimes. They may or may not have killed more people than the right
>wingers. They left may have killed more people than the right, but
>neither side holds a monopoly.

Of course, a dictatorship isn't a communist regime, even if it calls
itself that. What is true, though, is that every communist regime
sooner or later became a dictatorship.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 21:23:53 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:21:22 -0800, Leo >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>The point, which you missed, was a hundred-million dead under various Marxist
> >>philosophies.
> >
> >Nope. Not Marxist philosophies at all. Dictatorships who liked to use
> >the term, even though it did not apply. Kinda like the dumb****s who
> >go around calling the Nazis socialists.
> >
> >>I never heard of Bovard until I quick googled for dead people
> >>under Marxism and settled on the link. Do you deny the count? Should I
> >>re-google?
> >
> >I deny the claim. No need to verify a number of a false statement, eh?
> >
> >>The "delightful philosophy" of Marx assumes equality of birth, intelligence
> >>and ambition, much like worker bees or ants. None of that is true for a
> >>single human being ever born.
> >
> >Nor is that claimed by Marx.
> >
> >>Marxism, in any form, will never be done right.
> >>Individuals simply don´t work that way.
> >
> >It ain't been tried.
> >
> >Since you seem to know dick-squat about any of this, why do you keep
> >blabbering?
> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
> around. I wonder where this started.

Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.

Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:

>> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
>> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
>> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
>> around. I wonder where this started.
>
>Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.

But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>
> >> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
> >> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
> >> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
> >> around. I wonder where this started.
> >
> >Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.

Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
if they watch the evening news.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021 Jan 27, , Boron Elgar wrote
(in >):

> Since you seem to know dick-squat about any of this, why do you keep
> blabbering?

I´ll put my knowledge of 19th and 20th Century history up against yours any
day. And by the way, chemists don´t usually use foul language on Usenet. At
least, I don´t. I have posted "Well, sh*t", but that doesn´t spell
anything.

On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
(in >):

> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> if they watch the evening news.

While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
more believable because...

leo

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> if they watch the evening news.


Good morning, Cindy! Here, I'm feeling all generous today so I "fixed" your above post:

"Disgruntled, uneducated €œwoke€� whites have a nearly constant stream of MSM and cable (MSNBC€¦) on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have NPR, which is where the left-wing media really got its start. Their local television station (even a Fox €“ affiliated station!) likely hews to the approved liberal €œparty line€�, so they get another dose of liberalism/leftism if they watch the evening news..."

:-D

--
Best
Greg

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 9:24:03 AM UTC-5, Leo wrote:
> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> (in >):
> > Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> > on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> > talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> > local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> > if they watch the evening news.
> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> more believable because...

You snipped my mention of OANN, Newsmax and Breitbart.

Al Jazeera has better journalism than those.

I can't speak for all the cognoscenti, but I also read BBC and other international
news.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-01-28 6:23 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>
>>> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
>> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
>
> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> if they watch the evening news.
>

I am sorry to have to tell you, but they are not all uneducated. I know
a few people are well educated who are Trump fans and watch Fox news.

I am starting to understand why so many Trumpsters are upset about the
left leaning media and their constant attacks on Trump. I rarely
watched CNN until that attempt by Trumpsters to storm the Capital to
protect democracy.. as they see it. It has been non stop for weeks. I
flip by it once in a while and they are still carrying on about the
former president. There was one article about Covid19, but everything
else has been anti Trump.

I have to admit that I agree with most of it, but it is definitely one
sided. Fox and some others are just as bad the other way. There seems to
be no balanced reporting any more.

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 10:37:43 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-01-28 6:23 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> >> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> >>> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
> >> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
> >
> > Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> > on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> > talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> > local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> > if they watch the evening news.
> >
> I am sorry to have to tell you, but they are not all uneducated. I know
> a few people are well educated who are Trump fans and watch Fox news.
>
> I am starting to understand why so many Trumpsters are upset about the
> left leaning media and their constant attacks on Trump. I rarely
> watched CNN until that attempt by Trumpsters to storm the Capital to
> protect democracy.. as they see it. It has been non stop for weeks. I
> flip by it once in a while and they are still carrying on about the
> former president. There was one article about Covid19, but everything
> else has been anti Trump.
>
> I have to admit that I agree with most of it, but it is definitely one
> sided. Fox and some others are just as bad the other way. There seems to
> be no balanced reporting any more.

Follow the money. There's no profit in being balanced.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-01-28 9:23 a.m., Leo wrote:
> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> (in >):
>
>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>> if they watch the evening news.
>
> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> more believable because...
>


For my two cents worth... it was Fox who was pushing that bullshit story
about the documents found on Biden Jr's laptop while other media
questioned it. It was Tucker Carlson on Fox who carried on about all the
documents he had that would destroy Biden's chances in the election.
When it came time to put up or shut up about that he claimed that the
only copy had been in a package that got lost in transit.

For Some people it's a matter of judging credibility. When someone is
caught in a lie people have every reason to question their accuracy.
When they get caught in another number lie you question their
truthfulness. When they are caught in a string of lies they lose all
credibility.

On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> (in >):
>
>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>> if they watch the evening news.
>
> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> more believable because...
>
> leo
>
>

You left out this line
Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.

There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning. Fox is right
leaning.

But when you talk about OANN and company you are talking about outright
lies and conspiracy theories. That is why Trump likes the uneducated,
the believe that crap. Personally, I don't want to hang out with a guy
that brags he likes the uneducated.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
>> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>> (in >):
>>
>>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>> if they watch the evening news.
>>
>> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>> more believable because...
>>
>> leo
>>
>>
>
> You left out this line
> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>
> There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.

Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
WaPo are to the right of centre.

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
> >> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> >> (in >):
> >>
> >>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> >>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> >>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> >>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> >>> if they watch the evening news.
> >>
> >> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> >> more believable because...
> >>
> >> leo
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You left out this line
> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >
> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
> WaPo are to the right of centre.

Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > > On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
> > >> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> > >> (in >):
> > >>
> > >>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> > >>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> > >>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> > >>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> > >>> if they watch the evening news.
> > >>
> > >> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> > >> more believable because...
> > >>
> > >> leo
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > You left out this line
> > > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> > >
> > > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
> > Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
> > WaPo are to the right of centre.
> Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
> U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
> far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.



Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...

--
Best
Greg

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 03:23:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>
>> >> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
>> >> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
>> >> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
>> >> around. I wonder where this started.
>> >
>> >Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
>> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
>
>Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>if they watch the evening news.

I guess they're brainwashed.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 06:23:56 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>(in >):
>
>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>> if they watch the evening news.
>
>While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>more believable because...

I think even Fox News accepted that Trump had lost the election -even
calling some state rather early for Biden- while your hysterical
brethren were and are still going on about how it was stolen from
Trump.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:29:28 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
>>> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>>> (in >):
>>>
>>>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>>> if they watch the evening news.
>>>
>>> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>>> more believable because...
>>>
>>> leo
>>
>> You left out this line
>> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>
>> There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
>
>Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>WaPo are to the right of centre.

CNN was very anti Trump. To the point that I'd sometimes think leave
it up to me to dislike the man. You're journalists, just give me the
facts.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:37:38 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>I am sorry to have to tell you, but they are not all uneducated. I know
>a few people are well educated who are Trump fans and watch Fox news.
>
>I am starting to understand why so many Trumpsters are upset about the
>left leaning media and their constant attacks on Trump. I rarely
>watched CNN until that attempt by Trumpsters to storm the Capital to
>protect democracy.. as they see it. It has been non stop for weeks. I
>flip by it once in a while and they are still carrying on about the
>former president. There was one article about Covid19, but everything
>else has been anti Trump.
>
>I have to admit that I agree with most of it, but it is definitely one
>sided. Fox and some others are just as bad the other way. There seems to
>be no balanced reporting any more.

Of course, there's a difference between a bias and outright lying.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 06:13:05 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2021 Jan 27, , Boron Elgar wrote
>(in >):
>
>> Since you seem to know dick-squat about any of this, why do you keep
>> blabbering?
>
>I´ll put my knowledge of 19th and 20th Century history up against yours any
>day. And by the way, chemists don´t usually use foul language on Usenet. At
>least, I don´t. I have posted "Well, sh*t", but that doesn´t spell
>anything.

You should reread about Germany in the 30s and see if, by any chance,
it applies to yourself.

Graham wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
> >> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> >> (in >):
> >>
> >>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> >>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> >>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> >>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> >>> if they watch the evening news.
> >>
> >> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> >> more believable because...
> >>
> >> leo
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You left out this line
> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >
> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
> WaPo are to the right of centre.



Well, *this* two - time Trump voter regularly reads/watches:

"To start the day": Real Clear Politics, Fox News (website), AP News, Reason

"Left/Liberal": Jacobin, Vox, New Yorker, NY Times, NY Magazine, City Lab

"Conservative": American Conservative, National Review, Quillette, Intellectual Take - Out, PJ Media, City Journal, Issues & Insights

"International": Deutsche Welle, Radio Prague, BBC, Berliner Zeitung (English edition)

"????: New Geography

"Local": Wirepoints Illinois, Crime in Wrigleyville & Boystown, Chicago Tonight (WTTW, nightly Chicago Public TV newsmagazine)

"On Substack": Matt Taibbi and Andrew Sullivan

I do not have cable, so no cable nooze...thankfully...!!! I do watch PBS' Firing Line with Margaret Hoover

--
Best
Greg

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:48:27 -0800 (PST), GM wrote:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
>>> >> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>>> >> (in >):
>>> >>
>>> >>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>> >>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>> >>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>> >>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>> >>> if they watch the evening news.
>>> >>
>>> >> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>>> >> more believable because...
>>> >>
>>> >> leo
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > You left out this line
>>> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>> >
>>> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
>>> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>>> WaPo are to the right of centre.
>> Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
>> U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
>> far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.
>
>
>
> Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...

As it does when USians inevitably use the terms "socialist", "Marxist" or
"Communist" without having a clue what those terms really mean.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:12:29 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 03:23:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
>>> >> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
>>> >> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
>>> >> around. I wonder where this started.
>>> >
>>> >Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
>>> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
>>
>>Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>if they watch the evening news.
>
> I guess they're brainwashed.

Kruschev rightly maintained that the US propaganda machine was far more
effective on the US populace than the Soviet one on their citizens.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:16:22 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:29:28 -0700, Graham > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
>>>> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>>>> (in >):
>>>>
>>>>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>>>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>>>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>>>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>>>> if they watch the evening news.
>>>>
>>>> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>>>> more believable because...
>>>>
>>>> leo
>>>
>>> You left out this line
>>> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>>
>>> There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
>>
>>Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>>WaPo are to the right of centre.
>
> CNN was very anti Trump. To the point that I'd sometimes think leave
> it up to me to dislike the man. You're journalists, just give me the
> facts.

Well, what was there to like about that sorry peice of human waste?
And CNN DID report the facts, keeping a log of all the lies that arsehole
spouted!

On 2021-01-28 10:44 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 10:37:43 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
w people are well educated who are Trump fans and watch Fox news.
>>
>> I am starting to understand why so many Trumpsters are upset about the
>> left leaning media and their constant attacks on Trump. I rarely
>> watched CNN until that attempt by Trumpsters to storm the Capital to
>> protect democracy.. as they see it. It has been non stop for weeks. I
>> flip by it once in a while and they are still carrying on about the
>> former president. There was one article about Covid19, but everything
>> else has been anti Trump.
>>
>> I have to admit that I agree with most of it, but it is definitely one
>> sided. Fox and some others are just as bad the other way. There seems to
>> be no balanced reporting any more.
>
> Follow the money. There's no profit in being balanced.
>
>

Somewhere along the way to the present talk radio and TV have become
increasingly trashy. Personalities go out of their way to be outrageous.
The more outrageous they are, the more complaints they get and the
more reaction they get. Rather than take those complaints as being
valid, the broadcasters count them as positive assets. The reflect
listenership. The more listeners there are the more advertising revenues
they can generate.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:30:14 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:48:27 -0800 (PST), GM wrote:
>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You left out this line
>>>> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>>> >
>>>> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
>>>> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>>>> WaPo are to the right of centre.
>>> Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
>>> U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
>>> far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...
>
>As it does when USians inevitably use the terms "socialist", "Marxist" or
>"Communist" without having a clue what those terms really mean.

Cindy knows, but generally speaking that's true.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:35:40 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:16:22 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:29:28 -0700, Graham > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
>>>>> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
>>>>> (in >):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>>>>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>>>>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>>>>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>>>>> if they watch the evening news.
>>>>>
>>>>> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
>>>>> more believable because...
>>>>>
>>>>> leo
>>>>
>>>> You left out this line
>>>> Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>>>
>>>> There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
>>>
>>>Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>>>WaPo are to the right of centre.
>>
>> CNN was very anti Trump. To the point that I'd sometimes think leave
>> it up to me to dislike the man. You're journalists, just give me the
>> facts.
>
>Well, what was there to like about that sorry peice of human waste?
>And CNN DID report the facts, keeping a log of all the lies that arsehole
>spouted!

Yes and they weren't lying like Fox News was, but I want neutral
journalism so that I can decide to dislike Trump myself. I don't need
that spoonfed.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:33:50 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:12:29 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 03:23:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
>>>> >> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
>>>> >> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
>>>> >> around. I wonder where this started.
>>>> >
>>>> >Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
>>>> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
>>>> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
>>>
>>>Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
>>>on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
>>>talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
>>>local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
>>>if they watch the evening news.
>>
>> I guess they're brainwashed.
>
>Kruschev rightly maintained that the US propaganda machine was far more
>effective on the US populace than the Soviet one on their citizens.

Nevertheless, the US is a democracy -warts and all- but Russia is
ruled by one of the world's biggest crime bosses.

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 9:30:21 AM UTC-10, Graham wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:48:27 -0800 (PST), GM wrote:
>
> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > On 1/28/2021 9:23 AM, Leo wrote:
> >>> >> On 2021 Jan 28, , Cindy Hamilton wrote
> >>> >> (in >):
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> >>> >>> on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> >>> >>> talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> >>> >>> local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> >>> >>> if they watch the evening news.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> While the cognoscenti listen to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN. And they´re
> >>> >> more believable because...
> >>> >>
> >>> >> leo
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> > You left out this line
> >>> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >>> >
> >>> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
> >>> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
> >>> WaPo are to the right of centre.
> >> Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
> >> U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
> >> far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.
> >
> >
> >
> > Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...
> As it does when USians inevitably use the terms "socialist", "Marxist" or
> "Communist" without having a clue what those terms really mean.

The labels don't mean a thing to me - that's just PR. The only thing I know for sure is that the Democrats are somewhat less interested in overthrowing the US of A than the Republicans. That gives them a good amount of brownie points in my book. Don't hate me for voting for anybody that is intent on keeping America together. MAWA - Make America Whole Again.

On 2021-01-28 2:35 p.m., Graham wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:16:22 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:
>
>>> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
>>> WaPo are to the right of centre.
>>
>> CNN was very anti Trump. To the point that I'd sometimes think leave
>> it up to me to dislike the man. You're journalists, just give me the
>> facts.
>
> Well, what was there to like about that sorry peice of human waste?
> And CNN DID report the facts, keeping a log of all the lies that arsehole
> spouted!
>

Even the worst pieces of shit have their followers. My sister in law was
born in Austria and was just a little kid during the war. She was quite
frank about Hitler being their hero. She had been raised hearing about
all the great things he was doing. He got Germany back on its feet in
the wake of WWI and the Great Depression. People were working and making
money. There was a return to prosperity..... until everything went for a
shit.

Graham wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:12:29 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 03:23:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 5:18:22 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:49:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:41:38 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >> I think "Marxist" is a new buzz word for the right. Everything they
> >>> >> don't like is now "Marxist". They don't understand the word, but
> >>> >> repeat it anyway. Leo is the second person in RFC to throw that word
> >>> >> around. I wonder where this started.
> >>> >
> >>> >Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >>> But do these disgruntled, uneducated whites listen to all that? Yes,
> >>> Fox News maybe, but the rest? Or maybe also local shock jocks.
> >>
> >>Disgruntled, uneducated whites have a nearly constant stream of Fox News
> >>on televisions in salons, bars, and other workplaces. In the car they have
> >>talk radio, which is where the right-wing media really got its start. Their
> >>local television station is likely owned by Sinclair, so they get another dose
> >>if they watch the evening news.
> >
> > I guess they're brainwashed.
> Kruschev rightly maintained that the US propaganda machine was far more
> effective on the US populace than the Soviet one on their citizens.


That's because the USSR was an utter shitehole in every way, and the US is a generally attractive place to live...as are Canada and the other OECD nations...

The East Germans had that "problem" too, their citizens could easily tune in to Western TV and radio, and they did. All the East German "propaganda" in the world was useless against ordinary Western electronic media...not just news, but adverts and also seeing how people in the West lived...

PS: And Mr. K was prone to embellishing and even tale - telling...plus which he utterly failed to understand what the West was "all about". Very telling: on his 1959 visit to Los Angeles he spotted some anti - Soviet protestors (IIRC Hungarians) from his limo on the way to the gala luncheon to be held in his honour at 20th Century Fox Studios,, he was livid about this and exclaimed, "Why can't President Eisenhower do something about that!? In the USSR we would never allow such a thing when we are hosting foreign visitors..."

--
Best
Greg

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 2:41:43 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:30:14 -0700, Graham > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:48:27 -0800 (PST), GM wrote:
> >
> >> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:07:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > You left out this line
> >>>> > Take your pick. Fox News, OANN, Newsmax, Breitbart, ad infinitum.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > There is no doubt the ones you mention are left leaning.
> >>>> Only if you are a right-winger! To the rest of the world, CNN, the NYT and
> >>>> WaPo are to the right of centre.
> >>> Since we're talking about the U.S. and U.S. media, we might as well use
> >>> U.S. left/right conventions. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about right,
> >>> far right, and so far right it has an event horizon.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...
> >
> >As it does when USians inevitably use the terms "socialist", "Marxist" or
> >"Communist" without having a clue what those terms really mean.
> Cindy knows, but generally speaking that's true.

I think we can safely say that if USians use those terms, they generally
don't know what those words mean .

Those of us who know what those terms mean don't throw them around.

I've probably met a few Marxists or Communists living in and around a university
town for the past 40-odd years, but the presence of Marxists or Communists
in American politics is nil.

Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:58:58 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 2:41:43 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:30:14 -0700, Graham > wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:48:27 -0800 (PST), GM wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good point - we are not "the rest of the world", we are the US...otherwise the conversation pointlessly "wanders"...
>> >
>> >As it does when USians inevitably use the terms "socialist", "Marxist" or
>> >"Communist" without having a clue what those terms really mean.
>> Cindy knows, but generally speaking that's true.
>
>I think we can safely say that if USians use those terms, they generally
>don't know what those words mean .
>
>Those of us who know what those terms mean don't throw them around.
>
>I've probably met a few Marxists or Communists living in and around a university
>town for the past 40-odd years, but the presence of Marxists or Communists
>in American politics is nil.
>
Same in Australia. Netherlands had them in the 70s. Stalinists,
Maoists, Leninists, the works. But they died out.