Always read the recipe with an eye for calculation first.

That is, I have Sheila Ferguson's 1989 book "Soul Food: Classic Cuisine from the Deep South," so I thought I'd try making the Black Bottom Pie, which I had never tasted. The recipe calls for a cup of sugar. Sounds reasonable? Yes, until you think about what you're reading and you realize that the bottom half - the chocolate half - gets only 1/4 cup of the sugar, along with 2 ounces of UNSWEETENED chocolate!

Luckily for me, I tasted the chocolate mixture before pouring it into the crust. I added more sugar immediately. Next time, I'll use semi-sweet chocolate and the same amount of sugar. I'm pretty sure most people won't think that's too sweet. (Calling for unsweetened chocolate HAD to have been a mistake. I only hope there aren't too many mistakes in the book.)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/603329.Soul_Food
(reader reviews)

The top half, btw, is custard made with milk, eggs, cornstarch, gelatin, and bourbon - or rum, as you prefer.

Ferguson grew up in Philadelphia and in 1967, became a member of the soul music group The Three Degrees. She left in 1986. For about a quarter-century, she lived in England (that explains the tips in the cookbook for English readers) but she moved to the island of Majorca (Spain) in 2008.

You can see her singing "When Will I See You Again" here (she's the lead singer):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fVDAjs9f0


Lenona.

On 2018-04-17 11:42 AM, wrote:
> Always read the recipe with an eye for calculation first.
>
> That is, I have Sheila Ferguson's 1989 book "Soul Food: Classic Cuisine from the Deep South," so I thought I'd try making the Black Bottom Pie, which I had never tasted. The recipe calls for a cup of sugar. Sounds reasonable? Yes, until you think about what you're reading and you realize that the bottom half - the chocolate half - gets only 1/4 cup of the sugar, along with 2 ounces of UNSWEETENED chocolate!


I once had a similar problem with a cookie recipe.IIRC it was for
Chocolate Crinkle Cookies. I was in a hurry, read the quantity of sugar
and creamed it with the shortening. When I got to the part where I
rolled the batter into balls I realized that some of the sugar was
supposed to be reserved to roll the balls in. The cookies turned out to
be a little too crispy.

On 4/17/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
> Always read the recipe with an eye for calculation first.
>
> That is, I have Sheila Ferguson's 1989 book "Soul Food: Classic Cuisine from the Deep South," so I thought I'd try making the Black Bottom Pie, which I had never tasted. The recipe calls for a cup of sugar. Sounds reasonable? Yes, until you think about what you're reading and you realize that the bottom half - the chocolate half - gets only 1/4 cup of the sugar, along with 2 ounces of UNSWEETENED chocolate!
>
> Luckily for me, I tasted the chocolate mixture before pouring it into the crust. I added more sugar immediately. Next time, I'll use semi-sweet chocolate and the same amount of sugar. I'm pretty sure most people won't think that's too sweet. (Calling for unsweetened chocolate HAD to have been a mistake. I only hope there aren't too many mistakes in the book.)
>
> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/603329.Soul_Food
> (reader reviews)
>
> The top half, btw, is custard made with milk, eggs, cornstarch, gelatin, and bourbon - or rum, as you prefer.
>
> Ferguson grew up in Philadelphia and in 1967, became a member of the soul music group The Three Degrees. She left in 1986. For about a quarter-century, she lived in England (that explains the tips in the cookbook for English readers) but she moved to the island of Majorca (Spain) in 2008.
>
> You can see her singing "When Will I See You Again" here (she's the lead singer):
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fVDAjs9f0
>
>
> Lenona.
>
I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food
but I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to
adjust the recipe to the sweetness you desired.

Jill

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 12:04:17 PM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote:

> >
> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food


Neither am I, not being Southern - or black. Even so, I knew most of the terms in the 5-page glossary near the beginning, such as "johnnycake," "fatback," "hoecake," (I knew someone who suspected this word had salacious origins - it does not!), "hush puppies," "likka," and "succotash."

Here are most of the terms I DIDN'T know (not all are cooking related):

crocus sack
crumb crusher (no, not a rolling pin)
jodies
muddler
pilau
prawleen
red-eye gravy
signify
stepping in it


Lenona.

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
> >
> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food
> but I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to
> adjust the recipe to the sweetness you desired.
>
> Jill
>
I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie either.

wrote:
>
>
> Here are most of the terms I DIDN'T know (not all are cooking related):
>
> crocus sack
> crumb crusher (no, not a rolling pin)
> jodies
> muddler
> pilau
> prawleen
> red-eye gravy
> signify
> stepping in it

Out of your list, I only recognize and knew 2 items:

crumb crusher - term for a little kid
red-eye gravy - good stuff...basically ham drippings and coffee

On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>> >
>> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food
>> but I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to
>> adjust the recipe to the sweetness you desired.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie either.

I think that refers to a 14 year old picaninny's butt.

jmcquown wrote:

> On 4/17/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
> > Always read the recipe with an eye for calculation first.
> >
> > That is, I have Sheila Ferguson's 1989 book "Soul Food: Classic
> > Cuisine from the Deep South," so I thought I'd try making the Black
> > Bottom Pie, which I had never tasted. The recipe calls for a cup of
> > sugar. Sounds reasonable? Yes, until you think about what you're
> > reading and you realize that the bottom half - the chocolate half -
> > gets only 1/4 cup of the sugar, along with 2 ounces of UNSWEETENED
> > chocolate!
> >
> > Luckily for me, I tasted the chocolate mixture before pouring it
> > into the crust. I added more sugar immediately. Next time, I'll use
> > semi-sweet chocolate and the same amount of sugar. I'm pretty sure
> > most people won't think that's too sweet. (Calling for unsweetened
> > chocolate HAD to have been a mistake. I only hope there aren't too
> > many mistakes in the book.)
> >
> > https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/603329.Soul_Food
> > (reader reviews)
> >
> > The top half, btw, is custard made with milk, eggs, cornstarch,
> > gelatin, and bourbon - or rum, as you prefer.
> >
> > Ferguson grew up in Philadelphia and in 1967, became a member of
> > the soul music group The Three Degrees. She left in 1986. For about
> > a quarter-century, she lived in England (that explains the tips in
> > the cookbook for English readers) but she moved to the island of
> > Majorca (Spain) in 2008.
> >
> > You can see her singing "When Will I See You Again" here (she's the
> > lead singer):
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fVDAjs9f0
> >
> >
> > Lenona.
> >
> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food
> but I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to
> adjust the recipe to the sweetness you desired.
>
> Jill

Actually I have heard of it, but never tasted it. Saw it a few times
at potlucks and such.

Gary wrote:

> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Here are most of the terms I DIDN'T know (not all are cooking
> > related):
> >
> > crocus sack

Also called Coker sack or gunny sack. A burlap or cheap cloth bag.
Appalachian/Smokey MTN/ West virginia. They used to sell crocus bulbs
in them when I was a kid. Other bulbs too but somehow they got called
that. Maye it was because other bulbs were sold single but they never
were?

> > crumb crusher (no, not a rolling pin)
> > jodies
> > muddler

No clue

> > pilau
A rice dish, lots of spellings. Generally highly spiced. Modern term of
Pilaf is probably related.

> > prawleen
New Orleans call Pralines that.

> > red-eye gravy
Classic is coffee used to deglaze a bacon or ham cooked cast iron and
then used as a gravy. Rare is a totally different version made of red
beans, some ham with the 'eye bone' and sometimes coffee added (smokey
mountians ans some other parts).

> > signify
> > stepping in it

Well Signify is a word but not anyting else I know os and 'Stepping in
it' means I didn't use the flashlight at 5am when walking the dogs
(grin).

>
> Out of your list, I only recognize and knew 2 items:
>
> crumb crusher - term for a little kid
> red-eye gravy - good stuff...basically ham drippings and coffee

Hehehe like my version?

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
>
>
> A rice dish, lots of spellings. Generally highly spiced. Modern term of
> Pilaf is probably related.
>

People don't typically make rice dishes over here but a pilaf called "pilau" would be a hard sell since pilau means dirty in Hawaiian.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 4/17/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
>> Always read the recipe with an eye for calculation first.
>>
>> That is, I have Sheila Ferguson's 1989 book "Soul Food: Classic Cuisine
>> from the Deep South," so I thought I'd try making the Black Bottom Pie,
>> which I had never tasted. The recipe calls for a cup of sugar. Sounds
>> reasonable? Yes, until you think about what you're reading and you
>> realize that the bottom half - the chocolate half - gets only 1/4 cup of
>> the sugar, along with 2 ounces of UNSWEETENED chocolate!
>>
>> Luckily for me, I tasted the chocolate mixture before pouring it into the
>> crust. I added more sugar immediately. Next time, I'll use semi-sweet
>> chocolate and the same amount of sugar. I'm pretty sure most people won't
>> think that's too sweet. (Calling for unsweetened chocolate HAD to have
>> been a mistake. I only hope there aren't too many mistakes in the book.)
>>
>> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/603329.Soul_Food
>> (reader reviews)
>>
>> The top half, btw, is custard made with milk, eggs, cornstarch, gelatin,
>> and bourbon - or rum, as you prefer.
>>
>> Ferguson grew up in Philadelphia and in 1967, became a member of the soul
>> music group The Three Degrees. She left in 1986. For about a
>> quarter-century, she lived in England (that explains the tips in the
>> cookbook for English readers) but she moved to the island of Majorca
>> (Spain) in 2008.
>>
>> You can see her singing "When Will I See You Again" here (she's the lead
>> singer):
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fVDAjs9f0
>>
>>
>> Lenona.
>>
> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food but
> I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to adjust
> the recipe to the sweetness you desired.
>
> Jill

Wow! My grandma used to make it. Here's Martha Stewart's recipe:

https://www.marthastewart.com/318133/black-bottom-pie

As you can see, the chocolate layer at the bottom is very thin and I don't
think that part is supposed to be sweet.

wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>>>
>>> I don't claim to be any kind of expert on the deep south or soul food
>>> but I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie. I'm glad you were able to
>>> adjust the recipe to the sweetness you desired.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>>
>> I've never heard of Black Bottom Pie either.
>
> I think that refers to a 14 year old picaninny's butt.
>

What about a 70 year old one?

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 6:49:48 PM UTC-4, Julie Bove wrote:

>
> Wow! My grandma used to make it. Here's Martha Stewart's recipe:
>
> https://www.marthastewart.com/318133/black-bottom-pie
>
> As you can see, the chocolate layer at the bottom is very thin and I don't
> think that part is supposed to be sweet.


Don't know why you think that; it's made with semi-sweet chocolate and there's sugar in the custard too, some of which gets added to the chocolate.


Lenona.

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 5:19:19 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:

> > >
> > > crocus sack
>
> Also called Coker sack or gunny sack. A burlap or cheap cloth bag.

Ferguson said it was used for catching living creatures.

jodies - small versions of almost anything, including food. As opposed to "big mammy jammy."

muddler - small rod for bruising mint leaves or stirring the mint julep. "Also a person who's a pain in the neck."

> > > red-eye gravy
> Classic is coffee used to deglaze a bacon or ham cooked cast iron and
> then used as a gravy. Rare is a totally different version made of red
> beans, some ham with the 'eye bone' and sometimes coffee added (smokey
> mountians ans some other parts).

She didn't mention coffee - just that the ham was supposed to have some bone, and that when you pour off the fat from the gravy, the remaining residue is a bit red.

signify - Quote: "When a soulful person gets a roll going, they don't avow or state or proclaim; they just tell it like it is and that's called signifying."

stepping in it - "To cook a thing exceedingly well. For example, 'She sure stepped in the pot of greens.'"


And I forgot one - greeze. "'Let's greeze' means 'C'mon everybody, let's eat!'"


Lenona.

Forgot to mention another example. Years ago, I made blueberry muffins according to the Joy of Cooking recipe. (Don't know if it's been changed.) Had I read it more closely, I would have known I was setting myself up for disappointment; the results weren't nearly as sweet as what you would get at your local cafe - or supermarket.



Lenona.

On 2018-04-19 9:29 PM, wrote:
> Forgot to mention another example. Years ago, I made blueberry
> muffins according to the Joy of Cooking recipe. (Don't know if it's
> been changed.) Had I read it more closely, I would have known I was
> setting myself up for disappointment; the results weren't nearly as
> sweet as what you would get at your local cafe - or supermarket.

I usually find the cafe and supermarket blueberry muffins to be more of
a cupcake than a muffin. Muffins should have some heft and substance to
them them. We usually make muffins from the recipe in the Laura Secord
cookbook. I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
doesn't run into the muffin.

On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:42:12 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-04-19 9:29 PM, wrote:
>> Forgot to mention another example. Years ago, I made blueberry
>> muffins according to the Joy of Cooking recipe. (Don't know if it's
>> been changed.) Had I read it more closely, I would have known I was
>> setting myself up for disappointment; the results weren't nearly as
>> sweet as what you would get at your local cafe - or supermarket.

Perhaps the commercial muffin bakers add more sugar... and plain fresh
blueerries aren't all that sweet.

>I usually find the cafe and supermarket blueberry muffins to be more of
>a cupcake than a muffin. Muffins should have some heft and substance to
>them them. We usually make muffins from the recipe in the Laura Secord
>cookbook. I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
>doesn't run into the muffin.

Frozen blueberries automatically run, freezing bursts their skin...
and stirring in the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients that
already contain the frozen mushy blueberries just makes the color
running a lot worse. I make up the batter and then sprinkle fresh
flour coated berries on top... during baking they will distribute
fairly evenly throughout... I do the same when adding raisins to bran
muffins.

If one can obtain fresh ripe just picked blueberries and dust them
with flour they won't run but more importantly they won't all sink to
the bottom.

The worst thing about commercial muffins of any type is that they are
baked in those paper liners and then they are not muffins, they are in
fact cupcakes.

Oh, and when I made the Hamburger Dinner (from Pennsylvania Dutch Cooking, which has fewer than 50 pages), it said to layer 3 cups of sliced potatoes, 1 lb. hamburger, and a head of shredded cabbage - 6 layers in all - and to pour a cup of milk over it and bake it for two hours. I should have gone with my instincts and BOILED the darn vegetables first. (It did not turn out well, as you might guess.) Also, when it comes to potatoes, especially (aside from when you roast them without any other ingredients), there is practically no way to fry them when raw without deep-frying them, which I don't want to do.


Lenona.

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 1:18:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> Oh, and when I made the Hamburger Dinner (from Pennsylvania Dutch Cooking, which has fewer than 50 pages), it said to layer 3 cups of sliced potatoes, 1 lb. hamburger, and a head of shredded cabbage - 6 layers in all - and to pour a cup of milk over it and bake it for two hours. I should have gone with my instincts and BOILED the darn vegetables first. (It did not turn out well, as you might guess.)
>
Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
>
> Also, when it comes to potatoes, especially (aside from when you roast them without any other ingredients), there is practically no way to fry them when raw without deep-frying them, which I don't want to do.
>
> Lenona.
>
>
You don't do much cooking do you?

Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
frying.

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> >
> Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???

All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.


> Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
> frying.

Raw?

I recently shredded a raw potato finely in a mini-processor and fried it in some fat left over from corned beef. I was patient, but it still didn't seem cooked right - as opposed to when I boil and slice (or mash) potatoes before frying them.


Lenona.

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > >
> > Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
>
> All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.


To clarify: They were burned AND still somewhat raw.

On 2018-04-20 1:02 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:42:12 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> Perhaps the commercial muffin bakers add more sugar... and plain fresh
> blueerries aren't all that sweet.
>
>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
>> doesn't run into the muffin.

I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always have
them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see no point in
paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking them.


>
> Frozen blueberries automatically run, freezing bursts their skin...
> and stirring in the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients that
> already contain the frozen mushy blueberries just makes the color
> running a lot worse. I make up the batter and then sprinkle fresh
> flour coated berries on top... during baking they will distribute
> fairly evenly throughout... I do the same when adding raisins to bran
> muffins.

The flour holds any juice that works its way out of the berries. If you
work quickly, they don't have much chance to thaw and run. I end up
with white muffins with blueberries inside, not blue muffins.


> The worst thing about commercial muffins of any type is that they are
> baked in those paper liners and then they are not muffins, they are in
> fact cupcakes.

I attribute the texture to the cake like mix they use. Our corner
bakery/coffee shop makes wonderful, big dense muffins. The owner tried
parchment paper liners and had such success that she has continued. She
was concerned that it might affect the texture but it didn't.

On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-04-20 1:02 PM, wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:42:12 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the commercial muffin bakers add more sugar... and plain fresh
>> blueerries aren't all that sweet.
>>
>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
>>> doesn't run into the muffin.
>
>I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always have
>them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see no point in
>paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking them.

It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.

>> Frozen blueberries automatically run, freezing bursts their skin...
>> and stirring in the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients that
>> already contain the frozen mushy blueberries just makes the color
>> running a lot worse. I make up the batter and then sprinkle fresh
>> flour coated berries on top... during baking they will distribute
>> fairly evenly throughout... I do the same when adding raisins to bran
>> muffins.
>
>The flour holds any juice that works its way out of the berries. If you
>work quickly, they don't have much chance to thaw and run. I end up
>with white muffins with blueberries inside, not blue muffins.
>
>
>> The worst thing about commercial muffins of any type is that they are
>> baked in those paper liners and then they are not muffins, they are in
>> fact cupcakes.
>
>I attribute the texture to the cake like mix they use. Our corner
>bakery/coffee shop makes wonderful, big dense muffins. The owner tried
>parchment paper liners and had such success that she has continued. She
>was concerned that it might affect the texture but it didn't.
>

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 3:55:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > >
> > Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
>
> All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.
>
There's a remedy for that problem. It's called aluminum foil sealed over
the pan. Wonderful stuff. If by chance you are cooking a tomato dish, lay
a piece of parchment paper over the food, THEN seal with foil.
>
> > Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
> > frying.
>
> Raw?
>
You just proved to me you cannot cook for all the chef death notices, news-
paper articles, and recipes you post.
>
> I recently shredded a raw potato finely in a mini-processor and fried it in some fat left over from corned beef. I was patient, but it still didn't seem cooked right - as opposed to when I boil and slice (or mash) potatoes before frying them.
>
> Lenona.
>
See my statement above. You talk about cooking but cannot actually complete
the project.

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 3:56:26 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
> >
> > All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.
>
>
> To clarify: They were burned AND still somewhat raw.
>
>
As in my recent post: aluminum foil.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > >
> > Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
>
> All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.
>
>
> > Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
> > frying.
>
> Raw?

Yes; you can either slice a potato into rounds, or cut ut into 1cm
cubes, and fry them in a little oil in a fying pan.

Janet UK

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 5:25:45 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > Are you saying the potatoes were not tender after two hours in the oven???
> >
> > All I remember is, the cabbage, at least, got burned somewhat; I'm sure the potatoes did too, given how little liquid the recipe called for.
> >
> >
> > > Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
> > > frying.
> >
> > Raw?
>
> Yes; you can either slice a potato into rounds, or cut ut into 1cm
> cubes, and fry them in a little oil in a fying pan.
>
> Janet UK
>
>
It's quite and easy dish to cook. I don't know why she's stumbling
with such a simple vegetable.

On 2018-04-20 5:41 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith

>>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
>>>> doesn't run into the muffin.
>>
>> I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always have
>> them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see no point in
>> paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking them.
>
> It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.

No. It is silly to cook fruit in season. Fresh picked fruit it too good
to waste by cooking it. Frozen blueberries are not as good as fresh,
but are just as goof in muffins as fresh berries would have been.

wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2018-04-20 1:02 PM, wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:42:12 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Perhaps the commercial muffin bakers add more sugar... and plain fresh
>>> blueerries aren't all that sweet.
>>>
>>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice
>>>> doesn't run into the muffin.
>>
>> I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always have
>> them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see no point in
>> paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking them.
>
> It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.
>

It's very silly, ... nay, criminal to cook anything that is not exactly
the same as yoose cooks.

YOOSE is the greatest!

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 01:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Fri 20 Apr 2018 03:31:47p, Dave Smith told us...
>
>> On 2018-04-20 5:41 PM, wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith
>>
>>>>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>>>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue
>>>>>> juice doesn't run into the muffin.
>>>>
>>>> I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always
>>>> have them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see
>>>> no point in paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.
>>
>> No. It is silly to cook fruit in season. Fresh picked fruit it too
>> good to waste by cooking it.

That's because you've no access to fresh seasonal fruit. I grow my
own blueberries. However I don't cook those, we eat them fresh
picked.
The best blueberries for cooking are freeze dried..

On 2018-04-20 9:21 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 01:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>> On Fri 20 Apr 2018 03:31:47p, Dave Smith told us...
>>
>>> On 2018-04-20 5:41 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith
>>>
>>>>>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>>>>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue
>>>>>>> juice doesn't run into the muffin.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always
>>>>> have them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see
>>>>> no point in paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.
>>>
>>> No. It is silly to cook fruit in season. Fresh picked fruit it too
>>> good to waste by cooking it.
>
> That's because you've no access to fresh seasonal fruit. I grow my
> own blueberries. However I don't cook those, we eat them fresh
> picked.
> The best blueberries for cooking are freeze dried..



You replied to Wayne but you are quoting me. I live in a fruit belt.
There are raspberries and strawberries blueberries, peaches, apples,
apricots, rhubarb within a mile or two of my house.

Dave Smith wrote:
>penmart01 wrote:


>>> On Fri 20 Apr 2018 03:31:47p, Dave Smith wrote;
>>>
>>>> On 2018-04-20 5:41 PM, penmart01 wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:36:44 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then
>>>>>>>> stir in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue
>>>>>>>> juice doesn't run into the muffin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use frozen blueberries for a couple reasons. We almost always
>>>>>> have them on hand, and they are a lot cheaper than fresh. I see
>>>>>> no point in paying the premium price for fresh and then cooking
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's very silly to cook fruit out of season.
>>>>
>>>> No. It is silly to cook fruit in season. Fresh picked fruit it too
>>>> good to waste by cooking it.
>>
>> That's because you've no access to fresh seasonal fruit. I grow my
>> own blueberries. However I don't cook those, we eat them fresh
>> picked.
>> The best blueberries for cooking are freeze dried..
>
>
>
>You replied to Wayne but you are quoting me. I live in a fruit belt.
>There are raspberries and strawberries blueberries, peaches, apples,
>apricots, rhubarb within a mile or two of my house.

Some sloppy poster(s) messed up the attributions... I get tired of
attempting to sort them out.

For baking freeze dried work best, and are always in season.
https://www.amazon.com/Augason-Farms...+sugar+a dded

On 2018-04-21 9:21 AM, wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:


>
> For baking freeze dried work best, and are always in season.
> https://www.amazon.com/Augason-Farms...+sugar+a dded
>



I was going to say that they last time I bought dried blueberries they
were outrageously expensive. I thought I should follow your link before
dismissing the idea, but the I saw that Amazon sells them for $26.25
(US) for 12 oz, making them even more expensive that the dried
blueberries I had bought. Frozen works fine for me. Like I said,
toss the frozen berries into the flour mixture, stir in the liquid abd
bake immediately and they turn out great and without turning the batter
all blue.

Dave Smith wrote:
>penmart01 wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> For baking freeze dried work best, and are always in season.
>> https://www.amazon.com/Augason-Farms...+sugar+a dded
>
>I was going to say that they last time I bought dried blueberries they
>were outrageously expensive. I thought I should follow your link before
>dismissing the idea, but the I saw that Amazon sells them for $26.25
>(US) for 12 oz, making them even more expensive that the dried
>blueberries I had bought. Frozen works fine for me. Like I said,
>toss the frozen berries into the flour mixture, stir in the liquid abd
>bake immediately and they turn out great and without turning the batter
>all blue.

Dried is not the same as freeze dried.... and dried almost always has
sugar added like with Craisins.... sugar adds a lot of weight.

It's been a long time since I bought frozen blueberries but I remenber
that they were expensive compared to fresh, and frozen is watery and
typically also has sugar added.
A container of fresh blueberries at the produce department is
expensive too; a six ounce container (from Florida) cost $2
yesterday... my wfe buys fresh berries all year, says we need our
anti-oxidents.. At $2 for fresh they cost more than freeze dried.

From Honeyville Farms:
Instructions: To rehydrate, just add 3 parts water to 1 part
blueberries. Allow the blueberries to absorb the water for about 20
minutes or until they’re fully rehydrated. If you would like to use
them in your dish, no need to rehydrate them separately; they’ll
simply take on the liquid from the mix or batter you add them to. Each
can is equivalent to about 6 lbs. of fresh blueberries.
That's for a 12 ounce can, a #10 can.
Freeze dried blueberries are less expensive at Amazon than from
Honeyville Farms:
https://shop.honeyville.com/freeze-d...ueberries.html

> wrote in message

> Some sloppy poster(s) messed up the attributions... I get tired of
> attempting to sort them out.

And sometimes, it's just you, especially with your usual *walls of text.*

Cheri

wrote:
>
> For baking freeze dried work best, and are always in season.

Just because any fruit or vegetable is in local season, no need
not to use the fresh picked for cooking. If it's in season and
very fresh, eat all you can and buy more to cook or bake with.
Freeze dried or frozen doesn't work best, they are just 2nd best.
When in season, use fresh produce for everything.

Also, you don't use freeze dried...no pictures = lies. Right?

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2018-04-19 9:29 PM, wrote:
>> Forgot to mention another example. Years ago, I made blueberry
>> muffins according to the Joy of Cooking recipe. (Don't know if it's
>> been changed.) Had I read it more closely, I would have known I was
>> setting myself up for disappointment; the results weren't nearly as
>> sweet as what you would get at your local cafe - or supermarket.
>
> I usually find the cafe and supermarket blueberry muffins to be more of a
> cupcake than a muffin. Muffins should have some heft and substance to
> them them. We usually make muffins from the recipe in the Laura Secord
> cookbook. I add frozen blueberries to the dry ingredients and then stir
> in the wet ingredients and bake immediately so the blue juice doesn't run
> into the muffin.

I made muffins years ago with rehydrated dried fruit, nuts and just enough
batter to hold the stuff together. Batter was mainly whole wheat flour, oats
and a little unsweetened applesauce. No added sugar or sweetener. They were
plenty sweet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 6:05:31 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> >
> >
> > > Frying potatoes is one of the easiest dishes to prepare without deep-
> > > frying.
> >
> > Raw?
> >
> You just proved to me you cannot cook


I do just fine, thank you, with almost any recipe that doesn't call for a professional's skills. The only time I fail is when someone (very rarely) says that something I made is "interesting." (As someone pointed out, that's what Americans say whenever they don't like something, whether it's food or something else.) Otherwise, they tend to praise what I made, whether it's chocolate raspberry truffle ice cream, salmon souffle, fried rice, plum pudding, Turkish rice dishes, devil's-food cake, crepes suzette, etc. Yes, I've made all of those.

All I'm saying is, I can't seem to make fried potatoes TENDER, the way they often are in diners, as opposed to nothing but crunchy, without boiling them first - or by deep-frying, which I don't want to do. YOU try making that hamburger dinner; I don't think they said to cover it, which may have been part of the problem. At any rate, there was definitely a problem with another recipe in the same book, but when fixed, it's delicious if one likes limas; I've made it several times.


2 cups dried limas
4 slices bacon or salt pork
1 medium onion
1 green pepper
1 cup canned tomatoes
2 tsps. salt
1 tsp. mustard
2 Tbs. brown sugar

"Soak beans overnight. Drain, add 2 quarts of fresh water and boil until
tender. Pour beans into buttered casserole. Add minced pepper, onion,
tomatoes and seasoning and mix. Put bacon or salt pork on top and bake,
covered. Add water if necessary. Bake two hours at 325 F. Uncover for
the last 20 minutes."


The problem? It should be more like two CUPS of water, not two quarts! Three cups at the most, I say. No need to add water while baking, with three cups.


Lenona.

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 12:25:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> All I'm saying is, I can't seem to make fried potatoes TENDER, the way they often are in diners, as opposed to nothing but crunchy, without boiling them first - or by deep-frying, which I don't want to do. YOU try making that hamburger dinner; I don't think they said to cover it, which may have been part of the problem.
>
> Lenona.
>
>
Therein lies your problem. Use a lid to cover your skillet if you want
tender potatoes. Even a tablespoon or two of water can be added to create
a bit of steam if you're using a miniscule of oil.

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 3:25:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 12:25:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> >
> > All I'm saying is, I can't seem to make fried potatoes TENDER, the way they often are in diners, as opposed to nothing but crunchy, without boiling them first - or by deep-frying, which I don't want to do. YOU try making that hamburger dinner; I don't think they said to cover it, which may have been part of the problem.
> >
> > Lenona.
> >
> >
> Therein lies your problem. Use a lid to cover your skillet if you want
> tender potatoes. Even a tablespoon or two of water can be added to create
> a bit of steam if you're using a miniscule of oil.


Thank you. That might actually be helpful. I haven't tried frying RAW potatoes on the stove more than two or three times in my life, since it involves a lot of fine cutting, so I don't know if I covered them or not. Normally, though, I cover everything unless the recipe says not to - or if it tells you to stir constantly. When one doesn't use a lot of oil, of course one has to stir - unless it's a fried egg.


Lenona.