On 2018-02-07, S Viemeister > wrote:

> They also do a whole-grain one.

There is roller milling and then there is the older "millstone" for
grinding 'stone ground' flour. Stone ground flour leaves the "germ"
and the "bran" (together, the endosperm) intact and part of the flour.
It also is very coarse and spoils quickly. The "use by" date on my
new 5lb bag o' King Arthur Stone Ground Whole Wheat Flour is a mere 5
mos. Heck, it'll take me that long to figure out what I'm gonna do
with it!

Roller grinding takes off the entire endosperm, then sifts the flour
to different grades. This lack of endosperm permits the flour to last
seemingly forever. Millers can also bleach the flour, providing us
with what we seem to treasure most .....whiteness!

nb

"graham" wrote in message news
On 2018-02-07 2:13 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham" wrote in message news >
> On 2018-02-06 3:52 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2018-02-06, U.S Janet B > wrote:
>>
>>> I generally do mine 1/3 - 2/3 Crisco/butter.
>>
>> Sounds like Alton Brown's short pie crust recipe. His is 1/4 - 3/4
>> shortening/butter. I use Spectrum Palm shortening.
>>
>> I've tried 100% butter. Too tough! I was next gonna try 50/50.
>>
>> nb
>>
> I don't have that problem, but then, I use cake flour rather than AP.
>
> ==
>
> Graham, what is our equivalent to cake flour and AP? I always assumed AP
> was our plain flour. I don't have a clue about cake flour.
>
>
AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
(AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US). It is strong enough to
make decent bread*. Cake & Pastry flour has a protein content of about
9% and is therefore closer to UK plain.
When I make cakes, pastry and cookies using US baking books, such as
those by Dorie Greenspan, I either use all C&P or mix it with AP.
I made some vanilla Sablés from one of her books the other day. She
specified AP but I used C&P with superb results.
If I use a UK or French recipe I definitely use C&P flour.
*When I make bread I use strong bakers' flour (~15% protein) or organic
hard whole-wheat flour that is also very, very strong.
Graham

==

Thanks ...

So, C&P is like our plain flour? Yes I have made bread with plain flour if
I am looking for that particular texture.

AP flour is the same as our strong flour?

Do you have SR flour?

When you use that super strong flour, do you find it much better then when
you use our strong flour? If so, what is the difference?

"graham" wrote in message news
On 2018-02-07 7:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 8:24:48 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>> > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 3:54:01 PM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>> > > "graham" wrote in message news >> > >
>> > > On 2018-02-06 9:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> > > > On 2018-02-06 9:09 AM, Roy wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >>>>> They are nonstick but I don't use Crisco.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Something like as in something that has litle or no taste. >
>> > >>>> Butter
>> > > >>>> would
>> > > >>>> burn but you hate it anyway.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Has nothing to do with the taste. Shortening isn't healthy.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Just not healthy for YOU...the majority of people have few
>> problems
>> > > >> with it
>> > > >> unless they eat huge quantities of it.
>> > > >
>> > > > Shortening is not great for you. While it does contain unsaturated
>> > > > fats,
>> > > > it also contains saturated fats and transfat. Thanks to
>> loopholes in
>> > > > the
>> > > > regulations, the are able to day it is 0%, even though it is not
>> 0%.
>> > > > It
>> > > > contributes a lot of fat to your diet without other nutrient value.
>> > > > Greasing cookware with vegetable shortening is not going to kill
>> > > > anyone.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > I use lard, hardly kosher but it makes the best pastry IMNSHO! Recent
>> > > studies have shown that it is not as unhealthy as it was once > >
>> considered
>> > > to be. For some sweet pastry I use 50:50 lard:butter for French >
>> > recipes
>> > > it's all butter.
>> > > I have *never* used Crisco and am reluctant to use margarine. In
>> fact, > > I
>> > > substitute butter when the recipe calls for margarine even though the
>> > > texture might not turn out to be 100% correct.
>> > > Graham
>> > >
>> > > ==
>> > >
>> > > Agreed on the lard for pastry!
>> > >
>> > > NEVER margarine and I don't really know what crisco is
>> >
>> > Crisco is partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening.
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> >
>> > ==
>> >
>> > Ahh thanks. Not something I would be interested in using
>> >
>> > I keep hearing about Crisco. What is the attraction?
>>
>> Marketing, mostly.
>>
>> When animal fats were being portrayed as evil, Crisco was advertising
>> "all vegetable Crisco".
>>
>> Plus, it's shelf stable. You can have a can of it on the shelf for
>> years.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Ahh it comes in cans! Thanks.
>
> It also comes in pre-measured, individually wrapped 1/4 pound
> billets (normally called sticks), the same way that butter is
> commonly sold. This is a modern innovation. I have to say,
> it's pretty convenient because measuring shortening by volume
> isn't easy. My home economics teacher taught us to measure
> shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
> of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
> graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
> and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
> mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
> remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
> the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
> of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
> use.
>
> It looks like Trex comes measured in this fashion.
>
> (Interestingly, in the U.S. Trex is the brand name of
> a composite lumber-type material used for surfacing
> decks and porches.)
>
> Cindy Hamilton
> ==
>
> heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>
> So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
> out)
>
Or 113g:-)
Graham

==

Even better )

"graham" wrote in message news
On 2018-02-07 8:39 AM, graham wrote:
> On 2018-02-07 7:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 8:24:48 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>>> > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >
>>> > On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 3:54:01 PM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>>> > > "graham" wrote in message news >>> > >
>>> > > On 2018-02-06 9:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> > > > On 2018-02-06 9:09 AM, Roy wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >>>>> They are nonstick but I don't use Crisco.
>>> > > >>>>
>>> > > >>>> Something like as in something that has litle or no taste. >
>>> > >>>> Butter
>>> > > >>>> would
>>> > > >>>> burn but you hate it anyway.
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> Has nothing to do with the taste. Shortening isn't healthy.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Just not healthy for YOU...the majority of people have few
>>> problems
>>> > > >> with it
>>> > > >> unless they eat huge quantities of it.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Shortening is not great for you. While it does contain unsaturated
>>> > > > fats,
>>> > > > it also contains saturated fats and transfat. Thanks to
>>> loopholes in
>>> > > > the
>>> > > > regulations, the are able to day it is 0%, even though it is
>>> not 0%.
>>> > > > It
>>> > > > contributes a lot of fat to your diet without other nutrient
>>> value.
>>> > > > Greasing cookware with vegetable shortening is not going to kill
>>> > > > anyone.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > I use lard, hardly kosher but it makes the best pastry IMNSHO!
>>> Recent
>>> > > studies have shown that it is not as unhealthy as it was once > >
>>> considered
>>> > > to be. For some sweet pastry I use 50:50 lard:butter for French >
>>> > recipes
>>> > > it's all butter.
>>> > > I have *never* used Crisco and am reluctant to use margarine. In
>>> fact, > > I
>>> > > substitute butter when the recipe calls for margarine even though
>>> the
>>> > > texture might not turn out to be 100% correct.
>>> > > Graham
>>> > >
>>> > > ==
>>> > >
>>> > > Agreed on the lard for pastry!
>>> > >
>>> > > NEVER margarine and I don't really know what crisco is
>>> >
>>> > Crisco is partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening.
>>> >
>>> > Cindy Hamilton
>>> >
>>> > ==
>>> >
>>> > Ahh thanks. Not something I would be interested in using
>>> >
>>> > I keep hearing about Crisco. What is the attraction?
>>>
>>> Marketing, mostly.
>>>
>>> When animal fats were being portrayed as evil, Crisco was advertising
>>> "all vegetable Crisco".
>>>
>>> Plus, it's shelf stable. You can have a can of it on the shelf for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Ahh it comes in cans! Thanks.
>>
>> It also comes in pre-measured, individually wrapped 1/4 pound
>> billets (normally called sticks), the same way that butter is
>> commonly sold. This is a modern innovation. I have to say,
>> it's pretty convenient because measuring shortening by volume
>> isn't easy. My home economics teacher taught us to measure
>> shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
>> of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
>> graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
>> and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
>> mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
>> remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
>> the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
>> of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
>> use.
>>
>> It looks like Trex comes measured in this fashion.
>>
>> (Interestingly, in the U.S. Trex is the brand name of
>> a composite lumber-type material used for surfacing
>> decks and porches.)
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>> ==
>>
>> heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>>
>> So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
>> out)
>>
> Or 113g:-)
> Graham
>
Incidentally, there are now some higher quality butters being sold here
in 250g packs.

==

Ahh same as ours

On 2/7/2018 2:58 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message

>>> It is a solid all vegetable shortening that makes crispy light cookies
>>> and pie crust.Â* Millions and millions of people have used it for
>>> generations.Â* Don't be snobby ;-)
>>
>> Millions and millions of people smoked for generations. That doesn't
>> mean it's good for you.
>
> Yep.

At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
discussed your illness with you.

Look at the ads here
https://tinyurl.com/ydhcmruu

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:36:49 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...
>
snip My home economics teacher taught us to measure
>shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
>of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
>graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
>and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
>mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
>remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
>the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
>of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
>use.
>
snip
>Cindy Hamilton
>==
>
>heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>
>So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
>out)
>
>
Instead, you take a 1/4 cup measure (the kind for dry ingredients,
not the pitcher for wet ingredients), scoop the Crisco into the 1/4
cup measure, level it off and scoop it off into your recipe.
Janet US

On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:22:05 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On 6 Feb 2018 21:11:10 GMT, notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-06, Ophelia > wrote:
>>
>>> NEVER margarine and I don't really know what crisco is
>>
>> Crisco is hydrogenated vegetable oil. Basically, Crisco is mostly
>> transfat, much like margarine.
>
>Which is completely wrong. Crisco contains no partially hydrogenated
>fats and 0% trans fats. And has been like that for several years.
>Same with margarines and spreads.
>
>Almost all products out there have been reformulating to exclude
>PHO's, as will be law here in a few months.
>
>> But, like Nestle's, Crisco has been heavily advertised fer decades, so
>> it continues to sell well in the USA. Real handy fer Monsanto.
>
>Monsanto has nothing to do with trans fats. In fact, Monsanto
>benefits greatly from the trans fats ban. Some would even say the
>were the ones that crafted the ban on trans fats.
>
>Notbob - always on the cutting edge of nutrition news and rants.
>
>-sw

there's no use in trying to overcome the long-held bugaboos. It's a
comfortable response that just pops out

On 2/7/2018 9:37 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister"Â* wrote in message ...

>> I've used this one (ordered from AmazonUK, but also available from Ocado) -
>>
>> Marriage's Very Strong White Bread Flour.
> They also do a whole-grain one.
>
> ThanksÂ* Do you make regular bread with it?Â* If so, is there any
> advantage over regular strong flour?
>
I generally use 300g of it with 200g of a whole grain. I like the texture.

On 2/7/2018 10:32 AM, graham wrote:

> I haven't used UK plain flour but I think you are right. I buy Robin
> Hood C&P flour that I find works well with UK recipes. I also have a
> small problem with altitude so when my grand-daughter and I make a
> Victoria Sponge, I use ~35% C&P to ~65% SR flour. If I use 100% SR, the
> sponge collapses.
>
I've never tried baking at altitude - my kitchen is about 250 feet above
sea level!
I wonder if Robin Hood flour is available anywhere in NJ - I know I
haven't seen it in Scotland.

On 2018-02-07 8:50 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham"Â* wrote in message news >
> On 2018-02-07 2:13 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "graham"Â* wrote in message news >>
>> On 2018-02-06 3:52 PM, notbob wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-06, U.SÂ* Janet B > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I generally do mine 1/3 - 2/3 Crisco/butter.
>>>
>>> Sounds like Alton Brown's short pie crust recipe.Â* His is 1/4 - 3/4
>>> shortening/butter.Â* I use Spectrum Palm shortening.
>>>
>>> I've tried 100% butter.Â* Too tough!Â* I was next gonna try 50/50.Â*
>>>
>>> nb
>>>
>> I don't have that problem, but then, I use cake flour rather than AP.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Graham, what is our equivalent to cake flour and AP?Â* I always assumed
>> AP was our plain flour.Â* I don't have a clue about cake flour.
>>
>>
> AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
> (AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US). It is strong enough to
> make decent bread*. Cake & Pastry flour has a protein content of about
> 9% and is therefore closer to UK plain.
> When I make cakes, pastry and cookies using US baking books, such as
> those by Dorie Greenspan, I either use all C&P or mix it with AP.
> I made some vanilla Sablés from one of her books the other day. She
> specified AP but I used C&P with superb results.
> If I use a UK or French recipe I definitely use C&P flour.
> *When I make bread I use strong bakers' flour (~15% protein) or organic
> hard whole-wheat flour that is also very, very strong.
> Graham
>
> Â*Â* ==
>
> Thanks ...
>
> So, C&P is like our plain flour?Â* Yes I have made bread with plain flour
> if I am looking for that particular texture.
>
> AP flour is the same as our strong flour?
>
> Do you have SR flour?

Yes but for some reason, it contains salt as well!
>
> When you use that super strong flour, do you find it much better then
> when you use our strong flour?Â* If so, what is the difference?
>
With the stronger flour, one must use more water. French type T55 is
softer and bakers there use a 60% hydration. With AP I use 65% and close
to 70% with the strong flour.
Incidentally, I had a conversation with a Belgian baker who runs a
superb patisserie here. He told me that when he first arrived, he had a
helluva job adapting to our flours and he had to add so much extra water.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 08:26:25 -0700, graham > wrote:

snip
>>
>AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
>(AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US).
snip
>Graham

Does anyone know this for sure these days about nationally branded AP
flour that is sent to the south?
I know it was true 30-40 years ago and I was just wondering if today
Gold Medal, Pillsbury and their like still provide a softer flour just
for the south? I can see local mills addressing the protein content
for the southern biscuit makers.
Janet US

"S Viemeister" wrote in message ...

On 2/7/2018 9:37 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister" wrote in message ...

>> I've used this one (ordered from AmazonUK, but also available from
>> Ocado) -
>>
>> Marriage's Very Strong White Bread Flour.
> They also do a whole-grain one.
>
> Thanks Do you make regular bread with it? If so, is there any
> advantage over regular strong flour?
>
I generally use 300g of it with 200g of a whole grain. I like the texture.

=

Could you do the same with our Strong flour? I do something similar with
mine. I use wholewheat - is that different to whole grain?

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 03:34:25 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 5:26:46 PM UTC-5, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 17:01:45 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>> snip
>> >
>> >I use Crisco for fruit pies. I use lard for meat pies.
>> >FWIW... I have tried a couple peanut butter cookie recipes lately and I
>> >settle on an old favourite from Better Homes and Gardens. It calls for
>> >butter or shortening. The last two batches were made with about 1 part
>> >butter to two parts margarine and they turned out the best.
>>
>> That's a naughty recipe. All butter will create a cookie that will
>> spread. All shortening (Crisco) will create a stand-up crispy cookie.
>> I generally do mine 1/3 - 2/3 Crisco/butter. I thought that I had a
>> photo on Photobucket that I could show you of all shortening chocolate
>> chip cookies. If I find it I will post it.
>> Janet US
>
>I use all butter in my chocolate chip cookies because I like the way it
>tastes. I don't mind that they spread and I like them chewy rather
>than crispy, so I melt the butter.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Fine. Just saying what the difference is so that others can
manipulate their cookies the way they want.

On 2018-02-07 9:11 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 2/7/2018 10:32 AM, graham wrote:
>
>> I haven't used UK plain flour but I think you are right. I buy Robin
>> Hood C&P flour that I find works well with UK recipes. I also have a
>> small problem with altitude so when my grand-daughter and I make a
>> Victoria Sponge, I use ~35% C&P to ~65% SR flour. If I use 100% SR,
>> the sponge collapses.
>>
> I've never tried baking at altitude - my kitchen is about 250 feet above
> sea level!
> I wonder if Robin Hood flour is available anywhere in NJ - I know I
> haven't seen it in Scotland.
>
It's a widely sold Canadian brand but is now owned by a US company,
Smucker (who also own Crisco - who'd have thunk!).
http://www.robinhood.ca/En/Home

Graham

"graham" wrote in message news
On 2018-02-07 8:50 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham" wrote in message news >
> On 2018-02-07 2:13 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "graham" wrote in message news >>
>> On 2018-02-06 3:52 PM, notbob wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-06, U.S Janet B > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I generally do mine 1/3 - 2/3 Crisco/butter.
>>>
>>> Sounds like Alton Brown's short pie crust recipe. His is 1/4 - 3/4
>>> shortening/butter. I use Spectrum Palm shortening.
>>>
>>> I've tried 100% butter. Too tough! I was next gonna try 50/50.
>>>
>>> nb
>>>
>> I don't have that problem, but then, I use cake flour rather than AP.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Graham, what is our equivalent to cake flour and AP? I always assumed AP
>> was our plain flour. I don't have a clue about cake flour.
>>
>>
> AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
> (AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US). It is strong enough to
> make decent bread*. Cake & Pastry flour has a protein content of about
> 9% and is therefore closer to UK plain.
> When I make cakes, pastry and cookies using US baking books, such as
> those by Dorie Greenspan, I either use all C&P or mix it with AP.
> I made some vanilla Sablés from one of her books the other day. She
> specified AP but I used C&P with superb results.
> If I use a UK or French recipe I definitely use C&P flour.
> *When I make bread I use strong bakers' flour (~15% protein) or organic
> hard whole-wheat flour that is also very, very strong.
> Graham
>
> ==
>
> Thanks ...
>
> So, C&P is like our plain flour? Yes I have made bread with plain flour
> if I am looking for that particular texture.
>
> AP flour is the same as our strong flour?
>
> Do you have SR flour?

Yes but for some reason, it contains salt as well!
>
> When you use that super strong flour, do you find it much better then when
> you use our strong flour? If so, what is the difference?
>
With the stronger flour, one must use more water. French type T55 is
softer and bakers there use a 60% hydration. With AP I use 65% and close
to 70% with the strong flour.
Incidentally, I had a conversation with a Belgian baker who runs a
superb patisserie here. He told me that when he first arrived, he had a
helluva job adapting to our flours and he had to add so much extra water.

==

I am not surprised)

On 2018-02-07 9:16 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 08:26:25 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
> snip
>>>
>> AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
>> (AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US).
> snip
>> Graham
>
> Does anyone know this for sure these days about nationally branded AP
> flour that is sent to the south?
> I know it was true 30-40 years ago and I was just wondering if today
> Gold Medal, Pillsbury and their like still provide a softer flour just
> for the south? I can see local mills addressing the protein content
> for the southern biscuit makers.
> Janet US
>
I don't know! I was just repeating "folklore". We used to discuss this
on abr.
Graham

On 2018-02-07 10:05 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 9:25:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2018-02-07 9:10 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>>> Plus, it's shelf stable. You can have a can of it on the shelf for
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Ahh it comes in cans! Thanks.
>>>
>>> It also comes in pre-measured, individually wrapped 1/4 pound
>>> billets (normally called sticks), the same way that butter is
>>> commonly sold.
>>
>>
>> Around here it is most commonly sold in one pound blocks, as is most
>> butter. The box has markings for cutting off fractions of cups.
>
> I defer to your superior knowledge. I haven't bought
> Crisco in a decade or two. I don't make pie, and I
> prefer butter for what little baking I do.

No need to be snarky. I qualified it with the "around here". Things vary
regionally.


> ISTR that the last pie I made was a sweet potato
> pie, and used an all-butter crust. It was sinfully
> delicious. I think I used vodka to manage the gluten
> in the flour.

Butter is always good.

On 2/7/2018 11:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister"Â* wrote in message ...

>> I generally use 300g of it with 200g of a whole grain. I like the texture.

> Could you do the same with our Strong flour?Â* I do something similar
> with mine.Â*Â* I use wholewheat - is that different to whole grain?

One difference I've noticed, is that the Very Strong requires a bit more
liquid.
Yes, whole wheat is a whole grain - but sometimes I use whole rye.

"U.S. Janet B." wrote in message
...

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 03:34:25 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 5:26:46 PM UTC-5, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 17:01:45 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>> snip
>> >
>> >I use Crisco for fruit pies. I use lard for meat pies.
>> >FWIW... I have tried a couple peanut butter cookie recipes lately and I
>> >settle on an old favourite from Better Homes and Gardens. It calls for
>> >butter or shortening. The last two batches were made with about 1 part
>> >butter to two parts margarine and they turned out the best.
>>
>> That's a naughty recipe. All butter will create a cookie that will
>> spread. All shortening (Crisco) will create a stand-up crispy cookie.
>> I generally do mine 1/3 - 2/3 Crisco/butter. I thought that I had a
>> photo on Photobucket that I could show you of all shortening chocolate
>> chip cookies. If I find it I will post it.
>> Janet US
>
>I use all butter in my chocolate chip cookies because I like the way it
>tastes. I don't mind that they spread and I like them chewy rather
>than crispy, so I melt the butter.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Fine. Just saying what the difference is so that others can
manipulate their cookies the way they want.

==

That is always good to know

On 2/7/2018 11:18 AM, graham wrote:
> On 2018-02-07 9:11 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> I wonder if Robin Hood flour is available anywhere in NJ - I know I
>> haven't seen it in Scotland.
>>
> It's a widely sold Canadian brand but is now owned by a US company,
> Smucker (who also own Crisco - who'd have thunk!).
> http://www.robinhood.ca/En/Home
>
!!!!

On 2018-02-07 10:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>> Millions and millions of people smoked for generations. That doesn't
>>> mean it's good for you.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> At one time it was thought to be beneficial.Â* If you were in the
> hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
> discussed your illness with you.


That could have been my doctor, who was also a good friend. He chain
smoked, even in his examination room. He used to smoke while giving my
wife her allergy shots, and one of the things she was allergic to was
tobacco smoke.

On 2018-02-07 11:00 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:36:49 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
> snip My home economics teacher taught us to measure
>> shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
>> of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
>> graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
>> and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
>> mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
>> remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
>> the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
>> of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
>> use.
>>
> snip
>> Cindy Hamilton
>> ==
>>
>> heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>>
>> So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
>> out)
>>
>>
> Instead, you take a 1/4 cup measure (the kind for dry ingredients,
> not the pitcher for wet ingredients), scoop the Crisco into the 1/4

I did that with the (tub( margarine I used for peanut butter cookies a
couple days ago. I put in a couple tablespoons of soft butter and topped
it up with margarine. Then I had to scrape it out with a rubber
scrapper. It would have been a chore to clean off the margarine, but I
was measuring out an equal amount of peanut butter, so I would have had
a messy measuring cup anyway.

This is one of the reasons I prefer to buy shortening in blocks. It is
so much easier to just slice off the appropriate amount.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 11:29:43 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-02-07 11:00 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
snip
>>>
>> Instead, you take a 1/4 cup measure (the kind for dry ingredients,
>> not the pitcher for wet ingredients), scoop the Crisco into the 1/4
>
>I did that with the (tub( margarine I used for peanut butter cookies a
>couple days ago. I put in a couple tablespoons of soft butter and topped
>it up with margarine. Then I had to scrape it out with a rubber
>scrapper. It would have been a chore to clean off the margarine, but I
>was measuring out an equal amount of peanut butter, so I would have had
>a messy measuring cup anyway.
>
snip

I have to disagree with your term 'chore.' It's just like any other
cooking utensil. Your wash it.
Janet US

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:14:32 -0700, graham > wrote:

snip
>>
>With the stronger flour, one must use more water.
snip
Good luck with that one. It reeks of mysticism.
Janet US

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:20:36 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2018-02-07 9:16 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 08:26:25 -0700, graham > wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>>>
>>> AP flour sold in Canada and most of the US has a protein content of 12%
>>> (AIUI it is a bit softer in the southern US).
>> snip
>>> Graham
>>
>> Does anyone know this for sure these days about nationally branded AP
>> flour that is sent to the south?
>> I know it was true 30-40 years ago and I was just wondering if today
>> Gold Medal, Pillsbury and their like still provide a softer flour just
>> for the south? I can see local mills addressing the protein content
>> for the southern biscuit makers.
>> Janet US
>>
>I don't know! I was just repeating "folklore". We used to discuss this
>on abr.
>Graham

That's what I was wondering -- if the folklore of the 60s still held
true.
Janet US

On 2018-02-07, U.S Janet B > wrote:

> Does anyone know this for sure these days about nationally branded AP
> flour that is sent to the south?

Two brands, White Lily and Martha White, both now owned by Smuckers,
usta both be made with "soft Winter wheat" which supposedly has lower
protein and gluten. I think they both still do.

I've mail ordered WL's soft flour, but it doesn't seem to work at
altitude fer making biscuits, like I usta do in the SFBA. I ended up
tossing both bags. Our local sprmkt sells WL self-rising flour, which
I've never purchased.

Some reading:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_3347963.html

Don't forget Martha White --with Hot Rize-- as MW's self-rising flour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Rize

I knew 'em well!

nb

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 11:00:58 AM UTC-5, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:36:49 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> ...
> >
> snip My home economics teacher taught us to measure
> >shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
> >of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
> >graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
> >and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
> >mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
> >remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
> >the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
> >of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
> >use.
> >
> snip
> >Cindy Hamilton
> >==
> >
> >heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
> >
> >So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
> >out)
> >
> >
> Instead, you take a 1/4 cup measure (the kind for dry ingredients,
> not the pitcher for wet ingredients), scoop the Crisco into the 1/4
> cup measure, level it off and scoop it off into your recipe.
> Janet US

A lot of Crisco sticks to the cup. I've always preferred
water displacement. Then again, I'm not a precision baker.

Cindy Hamilton

"S Viemeister" wrote in message ...

On 2/7/2018 11:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister" wrote in message ...

>> I generally use 300g of it with 200g of a whole grain. I like the
>> texture.

> Could you do the same with our Strong flour? I do something similar with
> mine. I use wholewheat - is that different to whole grain?

One difference I've noticed, is that the Very Strong requires a bit more
liquid.
Yes, whole wheat is a whole grain - but sometimes I use whole rye.

==

Thanks

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:08:36 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 11:00:58 AM UTC-5, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:36:49 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> snip My home economics teacher taught us to measure
>> >shortening using water displacement: If you want half a cup
>> >of shortening (for example), put half a cup of water in a
>> >graduated glass measuring cup (or jug, as you might say),
>> >and spoon in shortening until the water reaches the 1 cup
>> >mark. Pour off the water and 1/2 cup of shortening
>> >remains. Obviously, a fair amount of water clings to
>> >the shortening. A pre-measured and wrapped 1/4 pound stick
>> >of shortening is 1/2 cup, so it's much more convenient to
>> >use.
>> >
>> snip
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> >==
>> >
>> >heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>> >
>> >So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
>> >out)
>> >
>> >
>> Instead, you take a 1/4 cup measure (the kind for dry ingredients,
>> not the pitcher for wet ingredients), scoop the Crisco into the 1/4
>> cup measure, level it off and scoop it off into your recipe.
>> Janet US
>
>A lot of Crisco sticks to the cup. I've always preferred
>water displacement. Then again, I'm not a precision baker.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I was replying to Ophelia so that she didn't think that the task was
as complicated as you made out. The only reason that I quoted you was
so there would be context to my comment.
I didn't comment on your baking skills at all.
Janet US

On 7 Feb 2018 17:02:48 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2018-02-07, U.S Janet B > wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know this for sure these days about nationally branded AP
>> flour that is sent to the south?
>
>Two brands, White Lily and Martha White, both now owned by Smuckers,
>usta both be made with "soft Winter wheat" which supposedly has lower
>protein and gluten. I think they both still do.
>
>I've mail ordered WL's soft flour, but it doesn't seem to work at
>altitude fer making biscuits, like I usta do in the SFBA. I ended up
>tossing both bags. Our local sprmkt sells WL self-rising flour, which
>I've never purchased.
>
>Some reading:
>
>https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_3347963.html
>
>Don't forget Martha White --with Hot Rize-- as MW's self-rising flour.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Rize
>
>I knew 'em well!
>
>nb
That's true, especially now that White Lily and Martha White are both
available nationwide. I guess I still don't think of them as
nationally branded.
Janet US

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:56:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 2/7/2018 2:58 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>
>>>> It is a solid all vegetable shortening that makes crispy light cookies
>>>> and pie crust.* Millions and millions of people have used it for
>>>> generations.* Don't be snobby ;-)
>>>
>>> Millions and millions of people smoked for generations. That doesn't
>>> mean it's good for you.
>>
>> Yep.
>
>At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
>hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
>discussed your illness with you.
>
>Look at the ads here
>https://tinyurl.com/ydhcmruu

I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.

On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:06:09 -0400, wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:56:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 2/7/2018 2:58 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>
>>>>> It is a solid all vegetable shortening that makes crispy light cookies
>>>>> and pie crust.* Millions and millions of people have used it for
>>>>> generations.* Don't be snobby ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Millions and millions of people smoked for generations. That doesn't
>>>> mean it's good for you.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>>At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
>>hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
>>discussed your illness with you.
>>
>>Look at the ads here
>>https://tinyurl.com/ydhcmruu
>
>I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
>himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.

sure. you were supposed to smoke menthol cigarettes when you were
sick or had a cold
Janet US

On 2/7/2018 1:06 PM, wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:56:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
>> hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
>> discussed your illness with you.
>>
> I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
> himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.
>
I remember being advised to smoke mentholated cigs for a chest infection!
I declined.

On 2/7/2018 1:31 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:06:09 -0400, wrote:

>> I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
>> himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.
>
> sure. you were supposed to smoke menthol cigarettes when you were
> sick or had a cold
> Janet US
>
Yes, I remember those days.

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 4:37:59 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>
> heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>
> So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
> out)

That sounds way too complicated. I just use my eyeballs.

A half pound of butter, 2 sticks, is also one cup. That's rather odd. It is in butter that our system of weights and liquid measure converges.

On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:06:09 -0400, wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:56:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 2/7/2018 2:58 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>
>>>>> It is a solid all vegetable shortening that makes crispy light cookies
>>>>> and pie crust.* Millions and millions of people have used it for
>>>>> generations.* Don't be snobby ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Millions and millions of people smoked for generations. That doesn't
>>>> mean it's good for you.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>>At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
>>hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
>>discussed your illness with you.
>>
>>Look at the ads here
>>https://tinyurl.com/ydhcmruu
>
>I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
>himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.

The US Grubberment used tax dollars to subsidize the tobacco industry
to develop high speed cigarette machines, in order to make it easier
to collect more taxes. The US Grubberment supplied the military with
free cigarettes so as to build up an addicted tax base. I still see
plenty of grade schoolers smoking, many look about ten years old,
young girls who haven't developed breasts yet puffing away.

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 8:52:42 AM UTC-10, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 2/7/2018 1:06 PM, wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:56:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >> At one time it was thought to be beneficial. If you were in the
> >> hospital even as late as the 1950s, you doctor might light up while he
> >> discussed your illness with you.
> >>
> > I remember a doctor (well someone dressed as a doctor and calling
> > himself one) advertising Craven A was good for a sore throat.
> >
> I remember being advised to smoke mentholated cigs for a chest infection!
> I declined.

Doctors were a lot more cooler back in those days. Vape devices would probably make excellent drug delivery systems, especially for folks with respiratory problems.

> wrote in message
...

> free cigarettes so as to build up an addicted tax base. I still see
> plenty of grade schoolers smoking, many look about ten years old,
> young girls who haven't developed breasts yet puffing away.


I don't see that at all where I live, in fact I see very few high school
kids smoking these days and I live across from a high school, so I see the
kids walking past everyday.

cehri

On 2018-02-07 11:58 AM, dsi1 wrote:
..
>
> A half pound of butter, 2 sticks, is also one cup. That's rather odd. It is in butter that our system of weights and liquid measure converges.
>

Rather messily I think:-)

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 4:37:59 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>
> heck that all sounds complicated. I just pop it onto my scale!
>
> So, a stick of butter is 1/4lb Thanks. I've never been able to work that
> out)

That sounds way too complicated. I just use my eyeballs.

A half pound of butter, 2 sticks, is also one cup. That's rather odd. It is
in butter that our system of weights and liquid measure converges.

==

You put it on your eyeballs and I will pop it on my scale ...OK? ;p