On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> > wrote:
>
>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
>>>>>> Yes wrote:
>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
>>>>>
>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
>>> away? >>
>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
>>>>
>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
>>>
>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
>>>
>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
>>
>> Have a spare $400K then?
>
> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
> real estate in Albany County, NY.
>

Yabutt...

You get some crappy winters there.

Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
you don't have to buy snow tires.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:21:28 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:19:53 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > Our Maytag washer & dryer are 6 years old now. Haven't had a problem
> > yet.
> >
>
> Average use in a week? This HAS to be a factor in longevity, doncha think?

He said his mother's only lasted 7 years. How many loads can one or
two people do in a week? There have to be other contributing factors
to the short life, like how hard the water is up there.

--

sf

On 2015-10-15 5:56 PM, sf wrote:

>> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:19:53 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>> Our Maytag washer & dryer are 6 years old now. Haven't had a problem
>>> yet.
>>>
>>
>> Average use in a week? This HAS to be a factor in longevity, doncha think?
>
> He said his mother's only lasted 7 years. How many loads can one or
> two people do in a week? There have to be other contributing factors
> to the short life, like how hard the water is up there.
>


The repairman who serviced our washing machine last week said the
machine was 8 years old, though I thought we had bought only 4-5 years
ago. It was a $350 repair. ;-(

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 4:34:16 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
> On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Kalmia wrote:
> >>>>>> Yes wrote:
> >>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
> >>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
> >>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
> >>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
> >>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
> >>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
> >>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
> >>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
> >>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
> >>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
> >>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
> >>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
> >>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
> >>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
> >>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
> >>> away? >>
> >>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
> >>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
> >>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
> >>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
> >>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
> >>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
> >>>
> >>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
> >>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
> >>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
> >>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
> >>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
> >>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
> >>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
> >>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
> >>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
> >>> in critter food than a family of ten.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
> >>
> >> Have a spare $400K then?
> >
> > Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
> > Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
> > a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
> > price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
> > real estate in Albany County, NY.
> >
>
> Yabutt...
>
> You get some crappy winters there.
>
> Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
> you don't have to buy snow tires.

Some people like winter. Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win

Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:34:13 -0600, Arroyo seco > wrote:

>On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
>>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
>>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
>>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
>>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
>>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
>>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
>>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
>>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
>>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
>>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
>>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
>>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
>>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
>>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
>>>> away? >>
>>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
>>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
>>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
>>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
>>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
>>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
>>>>
>>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
>>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
>>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
>>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
>>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
>>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
>>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
>>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
>>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
>>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
>>>
>>> Have a spare $400K then?
>>
>> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
>> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
>> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
>> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
>> real estate in Albany County, NY.
>>
>
>Yabutt...
>
>You get some crappy winters there.
>
>Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
>you don't have to buy snow tires.

I enjoy the four seasons and I've never owned snow tires... the roads
in upstate NY are plowed scrupulously clean in winter... the snow
scape is gorgeous and give this bear a great hibernation fron outside
work. I tried So Cal living for five years, hated it, the most boring
existence, the most boring people, and every one you meet is
transient, here today gone tomorrow and without so much as an adios...

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:07:59 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-10-15 5:56 PM, sf wrote:
>
>>> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:19:53 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>> Our Maytag washer & dryer are 6 years old now. Haven't had a problem
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Average use in a week? This HAS to be a factor in longevity, doncha think?
>>
>> He said his mother's only lasted 7 years. How many loads can one or
>> two people do in a week? There have to be other contributing factors
>> to the short life, like how hard the water is up there.
>>
>
>
>The repairman who serviced our washing machine last week said the
>machine was 8 years old, though I thought we had bought only 4-5 years
>ago. It was a $350 repair. ;-(

What'd need, a new tranny... maybe you need a new repair person who's
not a thief. I'd rather have put that much money towards a new
machine. My 22 year old Whirlpool has never needed a repair and $350
is what I paid new.... appliances fail because they are abused,
washers and dryers are constantly over loaded... and launder those
comforters and king size sheets in the commercial machines at the
laundromat. Refrigerators don't last long either when they are opened
a hundred times a day and the door is kept open for several minutes at
a time just to look at the scenery, and the schmutz has never even
once been vacuumed off the coils. I've been in homes where parents
think its cute when their kids use the fridge door like a playground
swing.

On 15/10/2015 9:43 AM, Yes wrote:
> Kalmia wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 2:31:50 PM UTC-4, Yes wrote:
>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers who
>>> make refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60% of the
>>> machine to freezer space and the remainder to cold space. It seems
>>> like the ratios for regular refrigerators may be 20% freezer and
>>> 80% cold.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from your
>> food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the freezer is just
>> a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>
>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about a
>> foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put away?
>
> Was curious. When I look around, it seems like the traditional fridge
> has a ratio of - perhaps - 20% freezer and 80% cold space; you will
> have to provide the actual ratios that are in use - I'm just guessing,
> which I think I made plain in my original post. I wondered if there
> were manufacturers who offered a different ratio of freezer and cold
> space in a consumer, residential model. I certainly didn't think so
> looking at the units offered by the high volume manufacturers. And I
> phrased my question specifically to avoid commercial grade
> refrigeration units because that segment is one probably beyond
> anything I could afford/would want to pay and because that segment
> probably will build a refrigeration unit to spec for a customer as long
> as the customer can/will pay for it.
>
> I look at how I'm using my fridge and these days I have more stuff in
> the freezer than I used to have say 3 years ago. I'm not a huge
> consumer. Most of the time, the cooler section of my fridge contains
> one gallon of milk, a pint of water, a thing of butter and a few odds
> and ends things that need to stay cold once opened. The most croweded
> it usually gets is when I buy meat and some veggies prior to cooking.
>
> My freezer usage is similar, except that the local grocers had a sale
> on some stuff that I like and will eat over time. I would have stocked
> up even more on them but ran out of space, which IS unusual for me
> given my usage habits. Normally, my freezer usage habits are like
> yours - lose or forget. I've changed my shopping habits to minimize
> that particular problem, although it does still happen to me, just not
> as often.
>
Our solution to your perceived issue was to buy a standard 2 door
refridgerator, total capacity 420 litres, and a small dedicated freezer.

This was the refridgerator; http://tinyurl.com/ndjewkg
We recently purchased it to replace the 34 year old 360 litre Kelvinator
we had prior. It is a little larger than our old one but we now have a
little extra room if bargains appear than cannot be resisted. Most of
the time it is about 1/2 to 2/3rds full.
The freezer compartment is pretty much full all the time nowadays
however so the gain in the freezer compartment was seemingly worthwhile.

What we also have is a small dedicated freezer. It is about 180 litre
capacity, same brand as our refridgerator, but maybe about 5 or 6 years
old now.

There are a few advantages to having a separate dedicated freezer. One
is its ability to freeze items much more quickly than the freezer
compartment in a combo unit is able to do. It gives us a place to keep
long term frozen items. Since we are not opening and closing the door to
our freezer very often, it becomes more economical in terms of
electricity use. The final benefit to us is where we keep it. It lives
these days in a corner of our garage. Our new home had room for a larger
fridge/freezer combo but not a dedicated freezer. No problem, having it
as a separate entity gave us flexibility as to its location.

--

Xeno

On 15/10/2015 1:05 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 10/14/2015 6:48 PM, rosie wrote:
>
>> We recently bought a new LG four door refrigerator, two doors at the
>> top and two large and roomy drawers at the bottom. I do no know that
>> it is 40 % but the freezers are both roomy.It looks good too,
>> stainless and sleek !
>
> I love the look of stainless! Glad you like yours too!
>
I don't like the look of stainless which is why I bought this;

http://tinyurl.com/ndjewkg

I prefer my whitegoods to be, well, white! ;-)


--

Xeno

Xeno wrote:

> On 15/10/2015 9:43 AM, Yes wrote:
> > Kalmia wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 2:31:50 PM UTC-4, Yes wrote:
> > > > Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
> > > > who make refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
> > > > of the machine to freezer space and the remainder to cold
> > > > space. It seems like the ratios for regular refrigerators may
> > > > be 20% freezer and 80% cold.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > >
> > > Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
> > > your food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the freezer
> > > is just a place to lose or forget stuff.
> > >
> > > AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about a
> > > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
> > > away?
> >
> > Was curious. When I look around, it seems like the traditional
> > fridge has a ratio of - perhaps - 20% freezer and 80% cold space;
> > you will have to provide the actual ratios that are in use - I'm
> > just guessing, which I think I made plain in my original post. I
> > wondered if there were manufacturers who offered a different ratio
> > of freezer and cold space in a consumer, residential model. I
> > certainly didn't think so looking at the units offered by the high
> > volume manufacturers. And I phrased my question specifically to
> > avoid commercial grade refrigeration units because that segment is
> > one probably beyond anything I could afford/would want to pay and
> > because that segment probably will build a refrigeration unit to
> > spec for a customer as long as the customer can/will pay for it.
> >
> > I look at how I'm using my fridge and these days I have more stuff
> > in the freezer than I used to have say 3 years ago. I'm not a huge
> > consumer. Most of the time, the cooler section of my fridge
> > contains one gallon of milk, a pint of water, a thing of butter and
> > a few odds and ends things that need to stay cold once opened. The
> > most croweded it usually gets is when I buy meat and some veggies
> > prior to cooking.
> >
> > My freezer usage is similar, except that the local grocers had a
> > sale on some stuff that I like and will eat over time. I would
> > have stocked up even more on them but ran out of space, which IS
> > unusual for me given my usage habits. Normally, my freezer usage
> > habits are like yours - lose or forget. I've changed my shopping
> > habits to minimize that particular problem, although it does still
> > happen to me, just not as often.
> >
> Our solution to your perceived issue was to buy a standard 2 door
> refridgerator, total capacity 420 litres, and a small dedicated
> freezer.
>
> This was the refridgerator; http://tinyurl.com/ndjewkg
> We recently purchased it to replace the 34 year old 360 litre
> Kelvinator we had prior. It is a little larger than our old one but
> we now have a little extra room if bargains appear than cannot be
> resisted. Most of the time it is about 1/2 to 2/3rds full. The
> freezer compartment is pretty much full all the time nowadays however
> so the gain in the freezer compartment was seemingly worthwhile.
>
> What we also have is a small dedicated freezer. It is about 180 litre
> capacity, same brand as our refridgerator, but maybe about 5 or 6
> years old now.
>
> There are a few advantages to having a separate dedicated freezer.
> One is its ability to freeze items much more quickly than the freezer
> compartment in a combo unit is able to do. It gives us a place to
> keep long term frozen items. Since we are not opening and closing the
> door to our freezer very often, it becomes more economical in terms
> of electricity use. The final benefit to us is where we keep it. It
> lives these days in a corner of our garage. Our new home had room for
> a larger fridge/freezer combo but not a dedicated freezer. No
> problem, having it as a separate entity gave us flexibility as to its
> location.

Not an option for me. No room to put another appliance. See earlier
post.

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:32:45 AM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:think?

..... appliances fail because they are abused,
> washers and dryers are constantly over loaded... and launder those
> comforters and king size sheets in the commercial machines at the
> laundromat.

huh? A set of king sheets shouldn't put more of a burden on the machine than a load of clothes.

Refrigerators don't last long either when they are opened
> a hundred times a day and the door is kept open for several minutes at
> a time just to look at the scenery,

NOW you get what I mean by liking the quick putaway and the foot pedal...

and the schmutz has never even
> once been vacuumed off the coils.

I religiously dust my coils ev. month. I use a microfiber rag I shaped into a glove which fits over an 18 inch ruler. My vacuum's crevice tool was still too fat to get in there.


I've been in homes where parents
> think its cute when their kids use the fridge door like a playground
> swing.

Or sit or stand on the dishwasher door and break it - I've heard of that.

On 10/16/2015 4:28 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 4:34:16 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
>> On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
>>>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
>>>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
>>>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
>>>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
>>>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
>>>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
>>>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
>>>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
>>>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
>>>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
>>>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
>>>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
>>>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
>>>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
>>>>> away? >>
>>>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
>>>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
>>>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
>>>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
>>>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
>>>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
>>>>>
>>>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
>>>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
>>>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
>>>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
>>>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
>>>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
>>>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
>>>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
>>>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
>>>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
>>>>
>>>> Have a spare $400K then?
>>>
>>> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
>>> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
>>> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
>>> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
>>> real estate in Albany County, NY.
>>>
>>
>> Yabutt...
>>
>> You get some crappy winters there.
>>
>> Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
>> you don't have to buy snow tires.
>
> Some people like winter.

Thankfully so, or all of Chicago would be down here now.

> Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
> about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
> really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
> very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

That would be Caliphonya, enjoy!

On 10/16/2015 5:09 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:34:13 -0600, Arroyo seco > wrote:
>
>> On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
>>>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
>>>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
>>>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
>>>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
>>>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
>>>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
>>>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
>>>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
>>>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
>>>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
>>>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
>>>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
>>>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
>>>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
>>>>> away? >>
>>>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
>>>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
>>>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
>>>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
>>>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
>>>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
>>>>>
>>>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
>>>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
>>>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
>>>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
>>>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
>>>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
>>>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
>>>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
>>>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
>>>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
>>>>
>>>> Have a spare $400K then?
>>>
>>> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
>>> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
>>> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
>>> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
>>> real estate in Albany County, NY.
>>>
>>
>> Yabutt...
>>
>> You get some crappy winters there.
>>
>> Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
>> you don't have to buy snow tires.
>
> I enjoy the four seasons and I've never owned snow tires... the roads
> in upstate NY are plowed scrupulously clean in winter...

Yeah, yeah, whatevea...

It's always perfection in your little reality distortion bubble innit?

> the snow
> scape is gorgeous and give this bear a great hibernation fron outside
> work. I tried So Cal living for five years, hated it, the most boring
> existence, the most boring people, and every one you meet is
> transient, here today gone tomorrow and without so much as an adios...

SoCal ain't the desert southwest, HTH!

In article >,
says...
>
> On 2015-10-15 5:56 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:19:53 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >>> Our Maytag washer & dryer are 6 years old now. Haven't had a problem
> >>> yet.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Average use in a week? This HAS to be a factor in longevity, doncha think?
> >
> > He said his mother's only lasted 7 years. How many loads can one or
> > two people do in a week? There have to be other contributing factors
> > to the short life, like how hard the water is up there.
> >
>
>
> The repairman who serviced our washing machine last week said the
> machine was 8 years old, though I thought we had bought only 4-5 years
> ago. It was a $350 repair. ;-(

Poor economics to sink that much money into an 8 yr old machine that's
starting to fail. Soon something else will break and you'll either, say
goodbye to the 350 you just spent, or pay through the nose again to fix
it.
Far better sense would be to put your money into a new machine.

Janet UK

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 12:19:15 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
> On 10/16/2015 4:28 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 4:34:16 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
> >> On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> >>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Yes wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
> >>>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
> >>>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
> >>>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
> >>>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
> >>>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
> >>>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
> >>>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
> >>>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
> >>>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
> >>>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
> >>>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
> >>>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
> >>>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
> >>>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
> >>>>> away? >>
> >>>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
> >>>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
> >>>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
> >>>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
> >>>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
> >>>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
> >>>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
> >>>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
> >>>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
> >>>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
> >>>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
> >>>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
> >>>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
> >>>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
> >>>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
> >>>>
> >>>> Have a spare $400K then?
> >>>
> >>> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
> >>> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
> >>> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
> >>> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
> >>> real estate in Albany County, NY.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yabutt...
> >>
> >> You get some crappy winters there.
> >>
> >> Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
> >> you don't have to buy snow tires.
> >
> > Some people like winter.
>
> Thankfully so, or all of Chicago would be down here now.
>
> > Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
> > about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
> > really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
> > very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> That would be Caliphonya, enjoy!

We can't move to California. My husband owns too many guns.

Cindy Hamilton

On 10/16/2015 10:47 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 12:19:15 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
>> On 10/16/2015 4:28 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 4:34:16 PM UTC-4, Arroyo seco wrote:
>>>> On 10/15/2015 2:05 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:19:57 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kalmia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Yes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Off topic - Are there any consumer refrigerator manufacturers
>>>>>>> who >> make >> refrigerators for use in the home that devote say 60%
>>>>>>> of the >> machine to >> freezer space and the remainder to cold
>>>>>>> space. It >> seems like the >> ratios for regular refrigerators may
>>>>>>> be 20% freezer >> and 80% cold.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why do you want so much freezer space? Are you 100 miles from
>>>>>>> your >> > food source? I'd rather have more COLD. For me, the
>>>>>>> freezer is >> > just a place to lose or forget stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For me the solution was simple, I acquired a second refrigerator
>>>>>>>>> freezer, for $100 from a used appliance store, granted it's no
>>>>>>> frills >> but no one sees it in my basement, twelve years later it's
>>>>>>> still >> working fine. For very little money I have lots of both
>>>>>>> extra fridge >> and freezer space... also solves the problem of what
>>>>>>> to do with the >> produce from my vegetable garden. I like the idea
>>>>>>> of a second >> fridge-freezer just in case my main unit stops
>>>>>>> working, I have a place >> to move the food.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AND - in case any fridge designers are reading this -- how about
>>>>>>> a >> > foot pedal to open the door when we're laden with stuff to put
>>>>>>> away? >>
>>>>>>>>> That won't solve the problem, you'll still have both arms full,
>>>>>>> get a >> cart/small table on wheels... although a properly designed
>>>>>>> kitchen has >> counter space adjacent to the fridge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not a feasible solution for me. I live in a 1,000 sq. ft. condo
>>>>>>>> with a galley style kitchen built in the late 70s. It was laid out
>>>>>>>> quite well for then, but attitudes, designs and gadgets have
>>>>>>>> changed drastically since then. My budget hasn't. sigh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All you'd need is a small cart that folds for storage... how many
>>>>>>> times do you shop in a week? Most times when I do a large shopping I
>>>>>>> place all the bags on the kitchen floor, items for the fridge right
>>>>>>> next to... more than half what I buy gets carried down to the
>>>>>>> basement. I mostly use those cloth/insulated shopping bags. My only
>>>>>>> shopping problem is keeping the cats out of the bags... Barny can claw
>>>>>>> open a 20 pound bag of dried in a heart beat. I have to keep dried
>>>>>>> cat food in 6 gallon galvanized covered pails, I have several. I'm
>>>>>>> positive you don't buy more groceries than I do, I buy more groceries
>>>>>>> in critter food than a family of ten.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you need to move, to a real house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a spare $400K then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems you have Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook.
>>>>> Move to where real estate is less expensive. Where I live one can buy
>>>>> a very nice 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft house on several acres for half that
>>>>> price, and plenty of well paying jobs of all kinds nearby.... search
>>>>> real estate in Albany County, NY.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yabutt...
>>>>
>>>> You get some crappy winters there.
>>>>
>>>> Good cheap real estate can be found all over the desert southwest, and
>>>> you don't have to buy snow tires.
>>>
>>> Some people like winter.
>>
>> Thankfully so, or all of Chicago would be down here now.
>>
>>> Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
>>> about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
>>> really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
>>> very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> That would be Caliphonya, enjoy!
>
> We can't move to California. My husband owns too many guns.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Pshaw!

You can have guns there, and Nevada is just close by!

On 2015-10-16 12:27 PM, Janet wrote:

>> The repairman who serviced our washing machine last week said the
>> machine was 8 years old, though I thought we had bought only 4-5 years
>> ago. It was a $350 repair. ;-(
>
> Poor economics to sink that much money into an 8 yr old machine that's
> starting to fail. Soon something else will break and you'll either, say
> goodbye to the 350 you just spent, or pay through the nose again to fix
> it.
> Far better sense would be to put your money into a new machine.
>

The machine was working great, but the problem was with the door, and it
is a front loading machine. We made do with the broken handle, but the
real problem was the broken door latch and lock. The repairman thought
the latch and lock problems were due to uneven pressure when opening and
closing because of the broken handle.

On 2015-10-16 6:28 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> Some people like winter. Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
> about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
> really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
> very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win
>

I am with you Cindy. I like the change of seasons. You can dress for the
cold. Put on a sweater. Wear a hat and gloves. Spend more time inside.
It does get tiresome by the end of February.

I had enough heat when I was in California last month. Luckily it was a
dry heat and during the worst of it we were in an air conditioned car. I
rarely use the AC in my car, but I used it all the time there. Opening
the window as 60 mph was a sensation like opening an oven to get
something out of it. 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an
area where we start to melt at 85.

On 2015-10-16, Dave Smith > wrote:

> 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an area where we
> start to melt at 85.

I've totally wussed out!

Two days before I moved, I was moving furniture in 105 deg F heat.
Normal fer a CA native. Now I live in the CO Rockies and am totally
whupped at anything over 72 deg F!

nb

Dave Smith wrote:
> 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an area where we start to
> melt at 85.


Do us all a favor - STAY THERE!

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:18:01 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-10-16 6:28 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> Some people like winter. Sure, snowblowing gets tiresome along
>> about the third week in February, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere
>> really hot. Ideally, I'd live someplace where the heat never or
>> very rarely exceeded 80 F. Maybe after my big lottery win
>>
>
>I am with you Cindy. I like the change of seasons. You can dress for the
>cold. Put on a sweater. Wear a hat and gloves. Spend more time inside.
>It does get tiresome by the end of February.
>
>I had enough heat when I was in California last month. Luckily it was a
>dry heat and during the worst of it we were in an air conditioned car. I
>rarely use the AC in my car, but I used it all the time there. Opening
>the window as 60 mph was a sensation like opening an oven to get
>something out of it. 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an
>area where we start to melt at 85.

Another vote for four seasons. I lived in the tropics for about 17
years, after two rather brutally hot and humid build ups to the wet
season, I'd eventually had enough (also somewhat bored with the place)
and gradually worked my way south into colder and colder climates over
the next 15 or so years to Tasmania. Now I'm happy if never goes over
20°C. But I especially love the fours seasons here.

On 2015-10-16 4:59 PM, Je�us wrote:

>>
>> I had enough heat when I was in California last month. Luckily it was a
>> dry heat and during the worst of it we were in an air conditioned car. I
>> rarely use the AC in my car, but I used it all the time there. Opening
>> the window as 60 mph was a sensation like opening an oven to get
>> something out of it. 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an
>> area where we start to melt at 85.
>
> Another vote for four seasons. I lived in the tropics for about 17
> years, after two rather brutally hot and humid build ups to the wet
> season, I'd eventually had enough (also somewhat bored with the place)
> and gradually worked my way south into colder and colder climates over
> the next 15 or so years to Tasmania. Now I'm happy if never goes over
> 20°C. But I especially love the fours seasons here.
>


I had posted something on my niece's FB page about thinking I should
feel sorry for her because it was too hot her to cook a turkey for her
Canadian Thanksgiving party at her house in southern California. She
wrote back that it was indeed too hot there. And this is October, the
time of year when our weather is either quite comfortable or damned chilly.

Today it is chilly. Tomorrow..... maybe snow.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:12:30 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-10-16 4:59 PM, Je?us wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I had enough heat when I was in California last month. Luckily it was a
>>> dry heat and during the worst of it we were in an air conditioned car. I
>>> rarely use the AC in my car, but I used it all the time there. Opening
>>> the window as 60 mph was a sensation like opening an oven to get
>>> something out of it. 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an
>>> area where we start to melt at 85.
>>
>> Another vote for four seasons. I lived in the tropics for about 17
>> years, after two rather brutally hot and humid build ups to the wet
>> season, I'd eventually had enough (also somewhat bored with the place)
>> and gradually worked my way south into colder and colder climates over
>> the next 15 or so years to Tasmania. Now I'm happy if never goes over
>> 20°C. But I especially love the fours seasons here.
>>
>
>
>I had posted something on my niece's FB page about thinking I should
>feel sorry for her because it was too hot her to cook a turkey for her
>Canadian Thanksgiving party at her house in southern California. She
>wrote back that it was indeed too hot there. And this is October, the
>time of year when our weather is either quite comfortable or damned chilly.
>
>Today it is chilly. Tomorrow..... maybe snow.

Forecast says 21° today, a sunny spring day. Everthing is growing like
mad now. There's still some snow persisting on some of the mountain
tops here.

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 5:12:30 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-16 4:59 PM, Je�us wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I had enough heat when I was in California last month. Luckily it was a
> >> dry heat and during the worst of it we were in an air conditioned car. I
> >> rarely use the AC in my car, but I used it all the time there. Opening
> >> the window as 60 mph was a sensation like opening an oven to get
> >> something out of it. 108 F is hard to take for someone who lives in an
> >> area where we start to melt at 85.
> >
> > Another vote for four seasons. I lived in the tropics for about 17
> > years, after two rather brutally hot and humid build ups to the wet
> > season, I'd eventually had enough (also somewhat bored with the place)
> > and gradually worked my way south into colder and colder climates over
> > the next 15 or so years to Tasmania. Now I'm happy if never goes over
> > 20°C. But I especially love the fours seasons here.
> >
>
>
> I had posted something on my niece's FB page about thinking I should
> feel sorry for her because it was too hot her to cook a turkey for her
> Canadian Thanksgiving party at her house in southern California. She
> wrote back that it was indeed too hot there. And this is October, the
> time of year when our weather is either quite comfortable or damned chilly.

Provided I was willing to forego stuffing the turkey, I'd roast it
on my gas grill (which perhaps your niece does not have).

Cindy Hamilton

Kalmia wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> appliances fail because they are abused,
>> washers and dryers are constantly over loaded... and launder those
>> comforters and king size sheets in the commercial machines at the
>> laundromat.
>
>huh? A set of king sheets shouldn't put more of a burden on the machine than a load of clothes.

They certainly do, they place a heavy load of drag on the agitor which
in turn stresses the tranny and belts... large laundry articles place
undue resistance on the machine just like driving an automobile with
its windows open significantly increases resistance and lowers gas
mileage because it places extra load on the vehicles mechanicals. One
king size sheet that may weigh two pounds places ten times more stress
on a washing machine than ten pounds of your panties... um, not sf's
panties. Didja know that machine washing bras places the most stress
on the machine as those straps tend to wrap around other items forming
a huge heavy ball of laundry, of course also ruining the bra... always
hand wash your bras... actually the best way to wash a bra is to wear
it while showering, and then wrap it in a towel and spin dry, never in
the dryer.

> Refrigerators don't last long either when they are opened
>> a hundred times a day and the door is kept open for several minutes at
>> a time just to look at the scenery,
>
>NOW you get what I mean by liking the quick putaway and the foot pedal...

On 10/16/2015 11:12 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:32:45 AM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:think?
>
> .... appliances fail because they are abused,
>> washers and dryers are constantly over loaded... and launder those
>> comforters and king size sheets in the commercial machines at the
>> laundromat.
>
> huh? A set of king sheets shouldn't put more of a burden on the machine than a load of clothes.
>
I've been washing and drying king sheets for 30 years without any
problems. They even fit into the stackable washer/dryer I had in an
apartment circa 1990, nary a problem.

> Refrigerators don't last long either when they are opened
>> a hundred times a day and the door is kept open for several minutes at
>> a time just to look at the scenery,
>
Who does that? I know what's in my fridge. I don't stand there staring
as if something will magically appear that wasn't there before.

> NOW you get what I mean by liking the quick putaway and the foot pedal...
>
I get it. I don't really need that feature it but I understand what
you're saying.

> and the schmutz has never even
>> once been vacuumed off the coils.
>
> I religiously dust my coils ev. month. I use a microfiber rag I shaped into a glove which fits over an 18 inch ruler. My vacuum's crevice tool was still too fat to get in there.
>
I bought a thing that attaches to the vaccuum cleaner hoze for cleaning
the dryer vent.

> I've been in homes where parents
>> think its cute when their kids use the fridge door like a playground
>> swing.
>
> Or sit or stand on the dishwasher door and break it - I've heard of that.
>
People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
helpful.

Jill

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:09:39 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> > I've been in homes where parents
> >> think its cute when their kids use the fridge door like a playground
> >> swing.
> >
> > Or sit or stand on the dishwasher door and break it - I've heard of that.
> >
> People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
> helpful.

I've never understood that attitude. Stop problems before they
happen. I think those are the same people with zero parenting skills
who let their kids be completely out of control until an adult
explodes and yells.

--

sf

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:09:39 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>>> I've been in homes where parents
>>>> think its cute when their kids use the fridge door like a playground
>>>> swing.
>>>
>>> Or sit or stand on the dishwasher door and break it - I've heard of that.
>>>
>> People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
>> helpful.
>
> I've never understood that attitude. Stop problems before they
> happen. I think those are the same people with zero parenting skills
> who let their kids be completely out of control until an adult
> explodes and yells.
>
+1!

On 10/17/2015 4:25 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:09:39 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
>> helpful.
>
> I've never understood that attitude. Stop problems before they
> happen. I think those are the same people with zero parenting skills
> who let their kids be completely out of control until an adult
> explodes and yells.
>
From the time I was a little girl I respectfully admired the Royal
Doulton figurines my grandmother (and then my mother) collected. I knew
better than to take them off the shelf and play with them. My only
female cousin had no such compunctions. I was told her mother did not
correct her but Grandma sure did. NO! Those are not toys!

Seriously, if I ran around wreaking havoc or breaking things I'm sure
someone would do something to stop me.

Jill

On 2015-10-17 4:25 PM, sf wrote:

>> People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
>> helpful.
>
> I've never understood that attitude. Stop problems before they
> happen. I think those are the same people with zero parenting skills
> who let their kids be completely out of control until an adult
> explodes and yells.
>


And then they will freak out at the adult for abusing their little angel.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 18:46:01 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2015-10-17 4:25 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >> People need to learn to keep their kids under control. The word NO is
> >> helpful.
> >
> > I've never understood that attitude. Stop problems before they
> > happen. I think those are the same people with zero parenting skills
> > who let their kids be completely out of control until an adult
> > explodes and yells.
> >
>
>
> And then they will freak out at the adult for abusing their little angel.

I'm thinking of one of the parents doing it. I used to see that all
the time. Ignore, ignore, ignore, explode.

--

sf