"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...

> At least the grandson did eventually get his GED and has held an
> assortment of jobs since about the age of 16. But he doesn't always make
> wise choices. But then I suppose many of us were guilty of that when we
> were younger.

Dear me!!! They do just as they like!! Maybe time for her to sell up and
move into a place only big enough for one!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:31:03 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others to
>> do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some things
>> you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home. Her son's
>> and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things for her. Her
>> son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after she allowed him
>> access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her that the bank made a
>> mistake.
>>
>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too. Our other friends and I
>> were considering buying her an Ipad because she goes out of touch,
>> sometimes for weeks at a time. The three of us live more North and while
>> not close together, closer together than she is from us. So it's not like
>> we could just drive over there to check on her. She has been in the
>> hospital a lot plus had has a lot of phone issues. One was her kitten and
>> the other had to do with her security system. I doubt that she would use
>> the Ipad though. She also has a cell phone but never turns it on.
>
>If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.

It's easy to password protect a computer. I know people of all ages,
young and old alike who refuse to have a computer. And some people I
know bought a computer nearly twenty yers ago but never learned to use
it, however still claim they have a computer... they don't even have
internet connectivity.

On 2013-11-04 10:22 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:

>> When my father's electric typewriter bit the dust I made the mistake of
>> suggesting that he get a computer, printer and word processer software.
>> This is a guy who could fix radios, televisions and appliances, rebuild
>> engines, wood working and machining. He designed and supervised
>> production facilities. He could not get a handle of computers. Every
>> time he had to compose a letter I would end up having to drive 15 miles
>> to their house to help him. I should have suggested buying a new
>> typewriter.. they were still available at the time.
>
> I've got a good IBM I can sell him.

Thanks for the offer, but he won't be using where is now.
>

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:31:03 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others to
>>> do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>> things
>>> you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home. Her
>>> son's
>>> and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things for her. Her
>>> son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after she allowed him
>>> access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her that the bank made a
>>> mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too. Our other friends and
>>> I
>>> were considering buying her an Ipad because she goes out of touch,
>>> sometimes for weeks at a time. The three of us live more North and
>>> while
>>> not close together, closer together than she is from us. So it's not
>>> like
>>> we could just drive over there to check on her. She has been in the
>>> hospital a lot plus had has a lot of phone issues. One was her kitten
>>> and
>>> the other had to do with her security system. I doubt that she would
>>> use
>>> the Ipad though. She also has a cell phone but never turns it on.
>>
>>If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>>look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>
> It's easy to password protect a computer. I know people of all ages,
> young and old alike who refuse to have a computer. And some people I
> know bought a computer nearly twenty yers ago but never learned to use
> it, however still claim they have a computer... they don't even have
> internet connectivity.

Such a shame

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 11/4/2013 9:27 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 11/4/2013 6:46 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>>
>> That *is* funny. My dad talked about getting a computer. Mom said no
>> way, it would just be another thing for her to dust! My brothers and
>> I breathed sighs of relief. We could just imagine the phone calls every
>> time he had a question or, heaven forbid, a problem with it. Tech
>> support over the phone with a newbie... not fun!
>
>
> When my father's electric typewriter bit the dust I made the mistake of
> suggesting that he get a computer, printer and word processer software.
> This is a guy who could fix radios, televisions and appliances, rebuild
> engines, wood working and machining. He designed and supervised
> production facilities. He could not get a handle of computers. Every
> time he had to compose a letter I would end up having to drive 15 miles
> to their house to help him. I should have suggested buying a new
> typewriter.. they were still available at the time.
>
I hear ya. My dad was extremely intelligent but he was not at all
mechanically inclined. As you said, even if someone is, they don't
necessarily grasp even the basics about computers. At least you were
within reasonable driving distance. My brothers and I were about 700
miles away.

Jill

On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>
>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>
(snippage)

> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>
If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
when the computer boots.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>
> (snippage)
>
>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>
> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her own.
> It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in when the
> computer boots.

Well you and I look at it that way but if it is not true for her ... why do
you think she refuses to have one?


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 11/5/2013 9:22 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:31:03 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others to
>>> do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some things
>>> you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home. Her son's
>>> and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things for her. Her
>>> son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after she allowed him
>>> access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her that the bank made a
>>> mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>
>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>
> It's easy to password protect a computer.

Password was my first thought!

> I know people of all ages,
> young and old alike who refuse to have a computer. And some people I
> know bought a computer nearly twenty yers ago but never learned to use
> it, however still claim they have a computer... they don't even have
> internet connectivity.
>
My neighbor has a computer (she's 67). She knows enough to send/receive
email, do some online shopping for gifts for her grandkids. Some people
just don't have much of a need for one.

Jill

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> At least the grandson did eventually get his GED and has held an
>> assortment of jobs since about the age of 16. But he doesn't always make
>> wise choices. But then I suppose many of us were guilty of that when we
>> were younger.
>
> Dear me!!! They do just as they like!! Maybe time for her to sell up and
> move into a place only big enough for one!

Not possible to do that here. Houses have increased in price so much that
elderly people are finding when they do need to downsize or get a place with
no stairs or whatever, they can't. My parents paid $212 for their house
payment. That house was paid off years ago. If my mom were to manage to
sell the house and move, she would be looking at a payment of at least
$1,000 a month, likely more. If that place was a condo, she could pay an
additional $300 to $500 a month in maintenance fees. She wouldn't be able
to afford that. Worse still, when we were looking for houses, the realtor
said that houses like hers are not selling. She has one full and one half
bath. She said in this market people only want two full baths.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:31:03 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others to
>>> do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>> things
>>> you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home. Her
>>> son's
>>> and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things for her. Her
>>> son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after she allowed him
>>> access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her that the bank made a
>>> mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too. Our other friends and
>>> I
>>> were considering buying her an Ipad because she goes out of touch,
>>> sometimes for weeks at a time. The three of us live more North and
>>> while
>>> not close together, closer together than she is from us. So it's not
>>> like
>>> we could just drive over there to check on her. She has been in the
>>> hospital a lot plus had has a lot of phone issues. One was her kitten
>>> and
>>> the other had to do with her security system. I doubt that she would
>>> use
>>> the Ipad though. She also has a cell phone but never turns it on.
>>
>>If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>>look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>
> It's easy to password protect a computer. I know people of all ages,
> young and old alike who refuse to have a computer. And some people I
> know bought a computer nearly twenty yers ago but never learned to use
> it, however still claim they have a computer... they don't even have
> internet connectivity.

Yes but I think the more likely scenario is that the computer could be
stolen. Or damaged.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

> My neighbor has a computer (she's 67). She knows enough to send/receive
> email, do some online shopping for gifts for her grandkids. Some people
> just don't have much of a need for one.

An elderly woman from my diabetes support group in CA was gifted with a
device that allowed her to send and receive emails through her phone. I
don't know if they still make such things or not. She snail mailed me, said
she was all excited about it and now I could send her emails! So I sent her
one. She snail mailed me and said that she knew I had sent her something
but she didn't know how to retrieve it so could I try it again? This went
on several times and finally I just said that I would rather not do the
email. I don't think she ever figured it out and you couldn't send links or
put attachments or anything because it had no real Internet connected to it
or any graphic capabilities.

On 11/5/2013 2:53 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>>
>>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>>
>> (snippage)
>>
>>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>>
>> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
>> own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
>> when the computer boots.
>
> Well you and I look at it that way but if it is not true for her ... why
> do you think she refuses to have one?
>
I wouldn't have any idea. I also wouldn't have someone I suspected of
stealing from me living with me.

Jill

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> At least the grandson did eventually get his GED and has held an
>>> assortment of jobs since about the age of 16. But he doesn't always make
>>> wise choices. But then I suppose many of us were guilty of that when we
>>> were younger.
>>
>> Dear me!!! They do just as they like!! Maybe time for her to sell up and
>> move into a place only big enough for one!
>
> Not possible to do that here. Houses have increased in price so much that
> elderly people are finding when they do need to downsize or get a place
> with no stairs or whatever, they can't. My parents paid $212 for their
> house payment. That house was paid off years ago. If my mom were to
> manage to sell the house and move, she would be looking at a payment of at
> least $1,000 a month, likely more. If that place was a condo, she could
> pay an additional $300 to $500 a month in maintenance fees. She wouldn't
> be able to afford that. Worse still, when we were looking for houses, the
> realtor said that houses like hers are not selling. She has one full and
> one half bath. She said in this market people only want two full baths.

Oh I wonder why she allows her children to bully her so

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>
> (snippage)
>
>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>
> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her own.
> It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in when the
> computer boots.

But the computer could be stolen or damaged. She got new carpet. The day
after it was installed, she went to work. Grandson had friends over, even
though he was not allowed to do this. They decided to eat something and
took whatever it was into the living room, even though the rule was that all
food was to be eaten in the kitchen. Someone spilled mustard on the new
rug. Grandson freaked when they couldn't get the stain out. So someone
decided to pour bleach on it. You can imagine what happened there! Someone
then move a piece of furniture over the bleached spot. She came home, did a
double take and then saw it.

Another time, her son had come over while she was at work. She came home to
find that the back door had been broken somehow. I can't remember the exact
problem now but it wouldn't close. Everyone in the house and her son all
denied knowing anything about it. Same for the one light fixture that she
has had to replace repeatedly. It's just the glass shade that keeps getting
broken. Either that or she will find it entirely gone. Again, nobody knows
a thing.

Someone also broke the handle off of the door on her new refrigerator. She
didn't have that one any length of time at all and has had to replace it
again. I think it had other issues as well but I can't remember what.

So I think she fears that if she did get a computer, someone would do
something to it.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/5/2013 2:53 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>>>
>>>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>>>
>>> (snippage)
>>>
>>>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son
>>>> will
>>>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>>>
>>> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
>>> own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
>>> when the computer boots.
>>
>> Well you and I look at it that way but if it is not true for her ... why
>> do you think she refuses to have one?
>>
> I wouldn't have any idea. I also wouldn't have someone I suspected of
> stealing from me living with me.

Sounds like she is badly bullied and daren't say anything


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-05 2:48 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>
>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>
> (snippage)
>
>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son will
>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>
> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
> own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
> when the computer boots.
>


Jill. Give your head a shake. It is a Julie story. It probably never
happened.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/5/2013 2:53 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her home.
>>>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>>>
>>>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>>>
>>> (snippage)
>>>
>>>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son
>>>> will
>>>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>>>
>>> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
>>> own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
>>> when the computer boots.
>>
>> Well you and I look at it that way but if it is not true for her ... why
>> do you think she refuses to have one?
>>
> I wouldn't have any idea. I also wouldn't have someone I suspected of
> stealing from me living with me.

I know she won't do anything about it. She told an ex that he couldn't put
his trailer in her backyard and yet she came home from work to find a
section of fence cut out. He did it to get the trailer back there. She did
nothing more than tell him repeatedly that he had to leave. The man had a
drinking problem. He was there for many months and her daughter allowed him
to run an orange extension cord into the house to power his TV. She would
keep taking the cord out and the daughter would put it back.

The last straw came when a neighbor reported the situation to the police.
They told her if she didn't do something, they would give her a ticket.
Only then did she allow the police to tell him to leave.

But he came back. No trailer this time. Again, sneakiness. Daughter let
him stay in the carport and on really cold nights she would sneak him into
the house. My friend awoke to the smell of smoke. She doesn't allow
smoking in her house. The man had fallen asleep on her living room floor
with a cigarette in his mouth.

He is dead now but she put up with him living out there for many months.
She rationalized that he was earning his keep by doing her yard work and
some odd jobs whenever he sobered up enough to do it.

I think her problem is that she does say "no" but doesn't follow through on
it. I am always like... Oh gawd, what has happened now?

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> At least the grandson did eventually get his GED and has held an
>>>> assortment of jobs since about the age of 16. But he doesn't always
>>>> make
>>>> wise choices. But then I suppose many of us were guilty of that when we
>>>> were younger.
>>>
>>> Dear me!!! They do just as they like!! Maybe time for her to sell up
>>> and
>>> move into a place only big enough for one!
>>
>> Not possible to do that here. Houses have increased in price so much
>> that
>> elderly people are finding when they do need to downsize or get a place
>> with no stairs or whatever, they can't. My parents paid $212 for their
>> house payment. That house was paid off years ago. If my mom were to
>> manage to sell the house and move, she would be looking at a payment of
>> at
>> least $1,000 a month, likely more. If that place was a condo, she could
>> pay an additional $300 to $500 a month in maintenance fees. She wouldn't
>> be able to afford that. Worse still, when we were looking for houses,
>> the
>> realtor said that houses like hers are not selling. She has one full and
>> one half bath. She said in this market people only want two full baths.
>
> Oh I wonder why she allows her children to bully her so

I suspect there is much I do not know. She has two other kids that she
hasn't seen in years. One ran away while in high school. Moved in with an
older, wealthy woman. That was the last she heard of her and it didn't
sound to me like she did much to try to get her back. I had not heard any
stories of her being a problem child and she did have a job. Her son who is
only 2 years younger than me had become a Moonie. He came back once,
unannounced and just moved in with a bunch of his friends. He told her that
they all worked for Amway and would pay her rent. They were there for only
two days. Then they vanished and she never saw them again. But she said
she knows her son is still in the area because her ex (now deceased) was
somehow in contact with him.

Often, she does not tell me of these things until much after the fact. I
don't want to sound nosy so I don't ask her a lot of questions about these
things unless she brings it up first. I did ask about the older son once
and I could sense the hesitation in her voice when she said that he had
become a Moonie. All she had known prior was that he wanted to move to
Tyler TX. He had not told her why. But he was of legal age so there was
nothing she could do. I don't know how she knew that he had become a
Moonie.

There are great chunks of these stories that don't get spoken of for a while
and eventually she will give me little tidbits of what happened here and
there. I think it is hard for her to speak of these things.

I never met her first husband but I think she does not want to remember much
of it. He was the alcoholic. She had three kids and they were very poor,
mostly thanks to him and his antics.

At some point she divorced him and remarried her second husband. That is
when I met her. She had a son by him (the one who is living with her now)
and she was an older mother. By then, life had beaten her down so much that
she didn't seem to have much self esteem or confidence. And her husband was
a real ass. Very verbally abusive. The last straw came with him when he
borrowed her car and then returned it with loose coleslaw all over the back
seat. As she put it, she went ballistic. Ordered him to clean it up and
then she left. She said she could not fathom how the coleslaw got there but
it involved three of his coworkers.

From there, she lived with her parents until her dad died. Then they had to
sell that house and she and her mother bought the one where they are living
now. Mother is dead now. She feels that she has no choice but what to keep
her daughter staying with her. At least the daughter does give her a small
amount of money for room and board. She gets disability but only a small
amount because she only worked for a few years before they declared her
disabled.

Her mental illness is such that she is pretty much non-functional in every
sense of the word. She can cook some but makes strange combinations and
always seems to burn the food. But she isn't even capable of cleaning
things properly and can't think in a normal fashion. The daughter did work
with us for a few months and seemed fine. She's very personable when her
illness isn't affecting her but that isn't often. It was when she got the
job at the law firm that the voices began speaking to her and it has been
all downhill from there. I could write a novel on that but I won't.

I never so much as met her older son and I think only saw the younger
daughter once. I do suspect that every one of her children has some sort of
mental illness that perhaps never was discovered. The youngest son was on
counseling for many years but he either clammed up or just lied to the
counselor, telling them what he thought they wanted to hear. He has always
had difficulty getting along with people and has a very volatile temper. He
was diagnosed with ADHD which my friend thinks that he does not really have.
I have met him. I would agree that he does have it but I'm no psych.

My friend's own childhood was no picnic because her dad was an alcoholic.
She has spoken a little of that but clearly it is painful for her to do so.
So I'm sure that doesn't help matters. When you grow up in a dysfunctional
home, it is very difficult to distinguish what "normal" really is or even
how to achieve it. In my opinion anyway...

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/5/2013 2:53 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 11/5/2013 4:31 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> My elderly friend refuses to get one. So she relies on me and others
>>>>>> to do things for her on the computer. These days there are just some
>>>>>> things you have to do online! She does actually have two in her
>>>>>> home.
>>>>>> Her son's and his friend. But she is fearful to let them do things
>>>>>> for her. Her son has perhaps stolen money from her many times after
>>>>>> she allowed him access to her bank accounts. He keeps telling her
>>>>>> that the bank made a mistake.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She used computers when I worked with her and she uses them now. So
>>>>>> that's not the problem. Her house has Wifi too.
>>>>>
>>>> (snippage)
>>>>
>>>>> If she is used to computers, I can only think she is afraid her son
>>>>> will
>>>>> look around it when she is out. She might feel safer without one.
>>>>>
>>>> If she's familiar with computers there's no reason to fear having her
>>>> own. It can easily be password protected so her son can't even log in
>>>> when the computer boots.
>>>
>>> Well you and I look at it that way but if it is not true for her ... why
>>> do you think she refuses to have one?
>>>
>> I wouldn't have any idea. I also wouldn't have someone I suspected of
>> stealing from me living with me.
>
> Sounds like she is badly bullied and daren't say anything

Yes. She is terrified of her son. The one time she did dial 911 on him (he
was a teen) they put him in a psych ward for a few days and then just
released him to her. As you can imagine, he blamed her for the whole thing
and has never forgiven her. The way things are in this country now, there
is little we can do to help those who really do need it. And little we can
do to protect ourselves from such people.

I know of another similar story with a different family but I won't get into
it here.

>"Gary" > wrote in message ...
>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Did they ever need to get anything from the bottom part of their
>>> refrigerator?
>>
>> I have a top freezer, but I've seen the bottom drawer freezers. I like
>> that idea. Unlike top freezers and side by side freezers, the bottom
>> ones will hold in the cold air when you open them. Much more
>> efficient, imo.
>>
>> Open up a top or side freezer and ALL of the cold air spills out in
>> seconds.

Cold air spills out of bottom freezers even faster, there are no sides
or back, it's all wire basket. Bottom freezers were made for short
people, my mother had a bottom freezer because she stood less than
5'... I hated that bottom freezer, crouching down and rummaging in
that basket was a big PIA... had to keep it open five times longer
than a top freezer to find stuff... also bottom freezer gaskets don't
work well and wear out fast, and their roller bearings and tracks wear
and become misaligned, which requires an expensive fix.

On 11/3/2013 10:01 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:22:49 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>
>>> LOL, I went out of my way to get a fridge/freezer with the freezer on
>>> the bottom. When you're 95% of the time getting something out of the
>>> fridge rather than the freezer, why have the freezer in your face?
>>
>> That was my train of thought too. I'm not quite 5'4, so the back of
>> the freezer was never, never land to me unless I climbed on a stool
>> and used a flashlight to find things.
>
> I'm 5'4" too and don't have that problem at all, so your fridge must be
> a lot bigger than mine.
>
> Cheri

No kidding! I'm 5'3". When I had a top-mount freezer I didn't have to
use a step-stool to see what was in it.

Jill

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:39:21 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 11/3/2013 10:01 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:22:49 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>>
>>>> LOL, I went out of my way to get a fridge/freezer with the freezer on
>>>> the bottom. When you're 95% of the time getting something out of the
>>>> fridge rather than the freezer, why have the freezer in your face?
>>>
>>> That was my train of thought too. I'm not quite 5'4, so the back of
>>> the freezer was never, never land to me unless I climbed on a stool
>>> and used a flashlight to find things.
>>
>> I'm 5'4" too and don't have that problem at all, so your fridge must be
>> a lot bigger than mine.
>>
>> Cheri
>
>No kidding! I'm 5'3". When I had a top-mount freezer I didn't have to
>use a step-stool to see what was in it.
>
>Jill

Not only that, but my freezer has a light inside so I can see what is
there.
Janet US

On 11/6/2013 10:53 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> "Gary" > wrote in message ...
>>> sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Did they ever need to get anything from the bottom part of their
>>>> refrigerator?
>>>
>>> I have a top freezer, but I've seen the bottom drawer freezers. I like
>>> that idea. Unlike top freezers and side by side freezers, the bottom
>>> ones will hold in the cold air when you open them. Much more
>>> efficient, imo.
>>>
>>> Open up a top or side freezer and ALL of the cold air spills out in
>>> seconds.
>
> Cold air spills out of bottom freezers even faster, there are no sides
> or back, it's all wire basket. Bottom freezers were made for short
> people, my mother had a bottom freezer because she stood less than
> 5'... I hated that bottom freezer, crouching down and rummaging in
> that basket was a big PIA... had to keep it open five times longer
> than a top freezer to find stuff... also bottom freezer gaskets don't
> work well and wear out fast, and their roller bearings and tracks wear
> and become misaligned, which requires an expensive fix.
>
I haven't gone to a store to look at any bottom freezers but your point
about the bearings and tracks is a good one. I really don't think I'd
like one. When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
to rummage around in the bottom to find things.

Jill

On 11/6/2013 12:45 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:39:21 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2013 10:01 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:22:49 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LOL, I went out of my way to get a fridge/freezer with the freezer on
>>>>> the bottom. When you're 95% of the time getting something out of the
>>>>> fridge rather than the freezer, why have the freezer in your face?
>>>>
>>>> That was my train of thought too. I'm not quite 5'4, so the back of
>>>> the freezer was never, never land to me unless I climbed on a stool
>>>> and used a flashlight to find things.
>>>
>>> I'm 5'4" too and don't have that problem at all, so your fridge must be
>>> a lot bigger than mine.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>> No kidding! I'm 5'3". When I had a top-mount freezer I didn't have to
>> use a step-stool to see what was in it.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Not only that, but my freezer has a light inside so I can see what is
> there.
> Janet US
>
Yep, so did mine.

Jill

In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> >"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> >> sf wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Did they ever need to get anything from the bottom part of their
> >>> refrigerator?
> >>
> >> I have a top freezer, but I've seen the bottom drawer freezers. I like
> >> that idea. Unlike top freezers and side by side freezers, the bottom
> >> ones will hold in the cold air when you open them. Much more
> >> efficient, imo.
> >>
> >> Open up a top or side freezer and ALL of the cold air spills out in
> >> seconds.
>
> Cold air spills out of bottom freezers even faster, there are no sides
> or back, it's all wire basket.

You're out of date.

Mine is an upright, frost-free freezer with front door opening to see-
through plastic drawers. No wire baskets.

Because there's no frost build-up its easy to see through the front of
the closed drawers. Cold air stays in the drawers (can't fall out)
while I open the freezer door, slide open the right drawer, extract what
I wanted, close the drawer and the door.

Janet. UK

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Cold air spills out of bottom freezers even faster, there are no sides
> or back, it's all wire basket.

The few bottom freezers that I've seen in customer's homes were not
wire basket. They were solid sides and I was impressed because with
these, you wouldn't lose cold air so fast.

G.

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 18:21:20 -0000, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, gravesend10
says...
>>
>> >"Gary" > wrote in message ...
>> >> sf wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Did they ever need to get anything from the bottom part of their
>> >>> refrigerator?
>> >>
>> >> I have a top freezer, but I've seen the bottom drawer freezers. I like
>> >> that idea. Unlike top freezers and side by side freezers, the bottom
>> >> ones will hold in the cold air when you open them. Much more
>> >> efficient, imo.
>> >>
>> >> Open up a top or side freezer and ALL of the cold air spills out in
>> >> seconds.
>>
>> Cold air spills out of bottom freezers even faster, there are no sides
>> or back, it's all wire basket.
>
> You're out of date.
>
> Mine is an upright, frost-free freezer with front door opening to see-
>through plastic drawers. No wire baskets.

An upright freezer is NOT a bottom freezer.

For my use I much prefer two top freezer fridges, with the two top
freezers I have plenty of freezer space and I make good use of the
extra fridge space. My second top freezer fridge is in my basement,
it doesn't get opened much as it's mostly for storage... very handy
for my garden veggies and for company foods, such as cases of
beer/soda, a whole watermelon, large caseroles, etc.

jmcquown wrote:
> When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
> with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
> to rummage around in the bottom to find things.

Many years ago, we bought a small 10 cubic foot chest freezer. Sounded
like a good plan but it wasn't. And every time we wanted something, we
had to dig all around. The item we wanted always seemed to be on the
bottom. We sold it after a year or two.

G.

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:53:13 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
> with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
> to rummage around in the bottom to find things.

The point of a pull out bottom freezer is that there is much less
"rummaging around" for things (IMO) than with a top freezer. I will
never go back. A bottom freezer works best for me now that I don't
have a stand alone freezer (which was also and upright).

Your money, your rules - buy the configuration you want. I don't rely
on the opinion of strangers in rfc.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:09:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>> When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
>> with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
>> to rummage around in the bottom to find things.
>
>Many years ago, we bought a small 10 cubic foot chest freezer. Sounded
>like a good plan but it wasn't. And every time we wanted something, we
>had to dig all around. The item we wanted always seemed to be on the
>bottom. We sold it after a year or two.
>
>G.

I have too many odd-shaped, humpy items in the freezer to ever be
happy with an upright. Our neighbors gave us their old one as an
extra and it does come in handy when I am cleaning out my chest
freezer, but all that slippery, sliding stuff just doesn't work for
me. Chickens and the like just don't stack well.
Janet US

On 11/6/2013 4:30 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:09:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>> When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
>>> with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
>>> to rummage around in the bottom to find things.
>>
>> Many years ago, we bought a small 10 cubic foot chest freezer. Sounded
>> like a good plan but it wasn't. And every time we wanted something, we
>> had to dig all around. The item we wanted always seemed to be on the
>> bottom. We sold it after a year or two.
>>
>> G.
>
> I have too many odd-shaped, humpy items in the freezer to ever be
> happy with an upright. Our neighbors gave us their old one as an
> extra and it does come in handy when I am cleaning out my chest
> freezer, but all that slippery, sliding stuff just doesn't work for
> me. Chickens and the like just don't stack well.
> Janet US
>
I don't know what you mean by slippery, sliding stuff. Then again, I
also don't attempt to stack whole chickens.

Jill

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:37:55 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 11/6/2013 4:30 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:09:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>> When I bought a separate freezer I bought an upright. Even
>>>> with a small cu. ft. chest freezer with baskets, I didn't want to have
>>>> to rummage around in the bottom to find things.
>>>
>>> Many years ago, we bought a small 10 cubic foot chest freezer. Sounded
>>> like a good plan but it wasn't. And every time we wanted something, we
>>> had to dig all around. The item we wanted always seemed to be on the
>>> bottom. We sold it after a year or two.
>>>
>>> G.
>>
>> I have too many odd-shaped, humpy items in the freezer to ever be
>> happy with an upright. Our neighbors gave us their old one as an
>> extra and it does come in handy when I am cleaning out my chest
>> freezer, but all that slippery, sliding stuff just doesn't work for
>> me. Chickens and the like just don't stack well.
>> Janet US
>>
>I don't know what you mean by slippery, sliding stuff. Then again, I
>also don't attempt to stack whole chickens.
>
>Jill
Chicken in any form is the best example. But there are packages of
home frozen spaghetti sauce, garden veggies, herbs, refried beans,
pork roasts, lamb roasts -- anything with a rounded surface becomes
slippery and therefore sliding (and will seriously pinch cold
fingers.) My chest freezer has 6 wire sliding baskets and I have
supplemented on the bottom of the freezer with some cheap Rubbermaid
type baskets. There's fish, beef, pork, chicken,
veggies/fruits/herbs, home prepared foods, breads and odds and ends,
and overflow. Everything is contained and no sliding out and hitting
my foot.
Janet US

On 2013-11-06 4:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>> I have too many odd-shaped, humpy items in the freezer to ever be
>> happy with an upright. Our neighbors gave us their old one as an
>> extra and it does come in handy when I am cleaning out my chest
>> freezer, but all that slippery, sliding stuff just doesn't work for
>> me. Chickens and the like just don't stack well.
>> Janet US
>>
> I don't know what you mean by slippery, sliding stuff. Then again, I
> also don't attempt to stack whole chickens.
>


I know what she means. Chickens, chicken pieces and other meats often
come packaged in piles rather than small pieces that fit neatly in their
little styrofoam trays. I get most of my meat from a butcher, so it gets
wrapped in butcher paper. I often get bags of one or two
chicken breasts that are like frozen snowballs in the freezer. They have
been known to fall out of my fridge top freezer.
If you only have one small freezer and you need/want chickens.... you
may have to stack them.


FWIW..... when I buy frozen peas or corn, the bags usually lie flat when
I get home from the store because the contents are still loose inside.
After a couple meals, those same bags end up like little frozen balls.

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:33:10 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> FWIW..... when I buy frozen peas or corn, the bags usually lie flat when
> I get home from the store because the contents are still loose inside.
> After a couple meals, those same bags end up like little frozen balls.

That's because they were allowed to thaw too much before being put
back into the freezer. When that happens, I partially freeze them -
take them out and make sure everything is separated and put it back.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 3:02:39 PM UTC-5, Cheri wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:54:25 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >If you have room for such a thing. Which I don't.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > WTF do you have your fridge stuffed with that there's no room for one
>
> >> > stinkin' tiny head of lettuce?
>
> >>
>
> >> I've been wondering the same thing.
>
> >>
>
> > I think she has a side by side and they are horrible. My DD's "new"
>
> > house came with a side by side and the limited experience I've had
>
> > with it has convinced me that I will *never* recommend those things to
>
> > anyone.
>
>
>
> They are terrible, right up there with freezers on the bottom IMO.

OOo-oo-oo. I was just thinking that if my side by side died tonight, I'd get either another one OR a freezer on the bottom. I have plenty of freezer space and hate stooping, so........ each to her own. What do you hate about FOB?

On 11/6/2013 2:12 PM, sf wrote:

>
> Your money, your rules - buy the configuration you want. I don't rely
> on the opinion of strangers in rfc.
>

Hey, we're not strangers, we offer the advice you need.

I've had both chest and upright freezers and both have good and bad
points. I prefer the upright though. As for refrigerators, we have a
side/side, but the next one will be a French door bottom freezer with
ice and water dispensers.

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 22:33:24 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 11/6/2013 2:12 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >
> > Your money, your rules - buy the configuration you want. I don't rely
> > on the opinion of strangers in rfc.
> >
>
> Hey, we're not strangers, we offer the advice you need.



>
> I've had both chest and upright freezers and both have good and bad
> points. I prefer the upright though. As for refrigerators, we have a
> side/side, but the next one will be a French door bottom freezer with
> ice and water dispensers.

The space where my refrigerator is placed has a very odd
configuration, so I entertained the thought of a French door
refrigerator until I went to the show room and tried it out. Whoever
set it up was very smart because they set it back from another
appliance and aligned the other appliances with the other side. Well,
you can't open any drawer unless the doors are wide open - so that
dose of reality cured me. I will stay with the single door option.

I still want a French door refrigerator, but it won't happen in this
lifetime.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 17:31:07 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> wrote:

> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 3:02:39 PM UTC-5, Cheri wrote:
> > "sf" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> > > I think she has a side by side and they are horrible. My DD's "new"
> > > house came with a side by side and the limited experience I've had
> > > with it has convinced me that I will *never* recommend those things to
> > > anyone.
> >
> > They are terrible, right up there with freezers on the bottom IMO.
>
> OOo-oo-oo. I was just thinking that if my side by side died tonight, I'd get either another one OR a freezer on the bottom. I have plenty of freezer space and hate stooping, so........ each to her own. What do you hate about FOB?

It's interesting when people say things like that, but she has a bad
back - so bending of any kind is obviously hard.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/6/2013 2:12 PM, sf wrote:
>
>>
>> Your money, your rules - buy the configuration you want. I don't rely
>> on the opinion of strangers in rfc.
>>
>
> Hey, we're not strangers, we offer the advice you need.
>
> I've had both chest and upright freezers and both have good and bad
> points. I prefer the upright though. As for refrigerators, we have a
> side/side, but the next one will be a French door bottom freezer with ice
> and water dispensers.

I recently had to buy a new freezer and I swithered about buying an upright
or staying with a chest. The chest won All the uprights I saw were self
defrosting and I don't want that in a freezer. My fridge does it and it's
ok for me. I have a large 'larder' fridge (6ft high) and don't need more
fridge space.

I've been doing well recently. I got a new fridge 2 weeks ago and my new
freezer yesterday. I have gone with the same types as the old ones.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 22:47:40 -0800, sf > wrote:



>
>The space where my refrigerator is placed has a very odd
>configuration, so I entertained the thought of a French door
>refrigerator until I went to the show room and tried it out. Whoever
>set it up was very smart because they set it back from another
>appliance and aligned the other appliances with the other side. Well,
>you can't open any drawer unless the doors are wide open - so that
>dose of reality cured me. I will stay with the single door option.
>
>I still want a French door refrigerator, but it won't happen in this
>lifetime.

I'll have to check that. The left door can open 90 degrees, but no
more. It is next to a wall.

My problem is the opening is 33" and a typical 36" is out.