I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.

The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99
a pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it.
He did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.

Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.

Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back
down to H-Mart again today.

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2013082010023510369-xxx@yyyzzz...
> I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
> flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
> collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.
>
> The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
> Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99 a
> pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it. He
> did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.
>
> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did a
> really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I got
> another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good at
> one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back down
> to H-Mart again today.

Do it couple more times and you will be filleting like a pro Lucky to
choose from live stuff!

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Ophelia wrote:
> Lucky to choose from live stuff!
I am Marty Bodine in Kansas City and I kill off groups along with Steve
Wertz of Austin, TX.

Feel me now:

================================================== ======================

WEBTV!!! ROFL!!!!

Bla bla bla, you're so clever. NOT! ROFL! And the webtv reference....
seriously? *You're* making fun of *me* with webtv? Do you not realize that
you have just validated everyone who has laughed at you for it?

One note... you can't lay off the crossdressing stuff in your lame attempt
at humor. You got caught on it already, and we all know about it, and "I
know you are but what am I" doesn't fix it.

Now **** off and die, you phony little pussy, and next time you decide to
start flinging shit at people outside your own back yard, try to prepare
your freeble little mind for the fact that you need to be willing to take
what you dish out, because someone may do the same thing back at you. If
you're going to keep being a pussy who wants to give shit but screams like a
sissy baby when you get it back, you'll just spend your sad little life
going through episodes like this where your true nature is revealed to all.

I'm done with you now, shithead. That is, unless you want more.

And unless you decide to resume making personal attacks on people who are
trying to discuss reasonable things. A little good natured banter between
rivals is fine, but you cannot seem to understand why it's offensive to
invade other forums and turn on a tirade of hateful personal attacks on
individuals. So if you go that route again, I'll be back on your ass, with
Goatboy, Ronald, and a bunch more tasty morsels. And go ahead and post all
the stupid shit you want in the Chiefs forums... you're not getting any
action because they are too smart to take your juvenile bait.... and
besides, yuou're just not funny.

Now please refrain from being an asshole and I will do the same.... or not,
your choice.

Besides, I can be a much bigger asshole than you when provoked, so do the
smart thing while you have this one opportunity at a truce.

MBKC

================================================== =======================

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02:35 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
>
> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
> did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back
> down to H-Mart again today.

Next time cook the fish on the bone and with the head and filet as you
eat at the table. It will taste much better.

http://www.richardfisher.com

In article <2013082010023510369-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:

> I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
> flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
> collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.
>
> The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
> Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99
> a pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it.
> He did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.
>
> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
> did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.

Look it up on the web and shorten your learning time.
Have a long, thin, flexible blade---makes a huge difference.

--
Michael Press

On 2013-08-20 19:44:31 +0000, Helpful person said:

> On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02:35 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
>>
>> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
>> did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
>> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
>> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
>> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>>
>> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
>> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back
>> down to H-Mart again today.
>
> Next time cook the fish on the bone and with the head and filet as you
> eat at the table. It will taste much better.

The wife suggested that, but with neither of us having never done this
before, I was unsure how best to go about it. Most of the time, I
dress the fish/chicken/beef and then pop it in the broiler. I take my
guesses about how long it should be on each side, usually 3-4 minutes a
side.

In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
didn't know and hadn't researched.

Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

On 2013-08-20 19:46:13 +0000, Michael Press said:

>> I did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
>> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
>> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
>> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Look it up on the web and shorten your learning time.
> Have a long, thin, flexible blade---makes a huge difference.

I did this a couple of years back when I got a smoker. Three times I
think, with trout among others. I watched the videos and did my best.
Practice makes perfect and I have not yet practised so much.

Unfortunately I was also in a big frustrated hurry...

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:59:13 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-08-20 19:44:31 +0000, Helpful person said:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02:35 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
>
> >> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
> >> did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
> >> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
> >> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
>
> >> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
> >>
> >> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> >> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back
> >> down to H-Mart again today.
> >
> > Next time cook the fish on the bone and with the head and filet as you
> > eat at the table. It will taste much better.
> >
>
> The wife suggested that, but with neither of us having never done this
> before, I was unsure how best to go about it. Most of the time, I
> dress the fish/chicken/beef and then pop it in the broiler. I take my
> guesses about how long it should be on each side, usually 3-4 minutes a
> side.
>
> In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
> to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
> was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
> didn't know and hadn't researched.
>
> Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
> have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

I've never broiled fish, I usually pan fry it (unbreaded) in
a non stick pan. I usually simply rub it with olive oil,
adding some lemon zest, herbs and capers. Unfortunately my
wife has to have bone free fish so I have limited experience
of cooking "on the bone". You can still broil, just move the
fish further from the heat so it doesn't burn.

The general rule of thumb is to cook fish 10 minutes for each
inch of thickness. This is fine for fish of a constant
thickness but a little difficult for a whole fish. I would
suggest cooking a fraction under 10 minutes an inch as
calculated by the thickest part. Remember, the fish will
continue to cook after it is removed from the grill. You can
also check the doneness before taking it to the table and
give it another minute if necessary.

http://www.richardfisher.com

In article <2013082012591310707-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:
>
>In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
>to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
>was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
>didn't know and hadn't researched.
>
>Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
>have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

Salt crust. It's da bomb. I googled whole fish salt crust and came
up with several very good looking recipes. I've used the Alton Brown
instructions, but any reputable source (Bon Appetit, for example)
should do the trick.

Cindy Hamilton
--

gtr > wrote:

> Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
> have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

Oven-roasting/baking a whole fish, once it is cleaned, is about the
easiest thing one can do with fish. Paint the fish inside and out with
olive oil, salt and pepper, also inside and out, stuff the cavity with
herbs of your choice, for example rosemary or thyme, and roast/bake on a
rack at about 200°C/400°F. The time needed will depend on the
size/thickness of the fish. For example, a normal-sized dorade
(gilthead bream), a wonderful fish for this treatment, will need about
20 minutes. Done.

Victor

On 8/20/2013 12:02 PM, gtr wrote:
> I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
> flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
> collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.
>
> The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
> Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99 a
> pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it. He
> did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.
>
> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
> a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
> got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
> at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back down
> to H-Mart again today.
>
>

Do you have a good fileting knife. Thin and sharp. They are really
treasures for that job. If you don't have one, a good "boning" knife
will do a decent job. I will probably get flamed for the latter suggestion

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On 8/20/2013 3:01 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-08-20 19:46:13 +0000, Michael Press said:
>
>>> I did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
>>> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
>>> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
>>> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>>
>> Look it up on the web and shorten your learning time.
>> Have a long, thin, flexible blade---makes a huge difference.
>
> I did this a couple of years back when I got a smoker. Three times I
> think, with trout among others. I watched the videos and did my best.
> Practice makes perfect and I have not yet practised so much.
>
> Unfortunately I was also in a big frustrated hurry...
>

When I fish in the Laguna Madre we catch a lot of whiting. I just gut
it and take off the head then I smoke them off the heat side of our gas
grill with some nice wood chips for smoke. When they are cool, the skin
and bones separate easily.

DH likes it when I make a "salad" from the smoked whiting with finely
diced onion, some herbs and mayo. It's not like a NY Appetizing store
whitefish salad, but it's not bad and a good way to use whiting which is
not good for much but deep frying.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On 2013-08-20 21:40:28 +0000, Janet Wilder said:

>> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
>> a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
>> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
>> got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
>> at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Do you have a good fileting knife. Thin and sharp. They are really
> treasures for that job. If you don't have one, a good "boning" knife
> will do a decent job. I will probably get flamed for the latter
> suggestion

I don't. I used a 6" Henckels that looks like this:

http://tinyurl.com/lcavqu6

Though I bought mine for 30 bucks or something 15 years ago: mine looks
the same.. Why is a boning knife beckon flames?

If I find a relatively cheap fileting knife I may well get it. I assume
a bona fide fileting knife is one of those backwards-bent things like
this:

http://tinyurl.com/mcd8w6b

Of course I'm not buying anything that expensive. I'd have to eat cheap
fish the rest of my life to get back my investment...

While we're at Sur La Table, I sure could have used a bone-picker-outer
tweezers. Japanese food fans, neither of us balk at boney fish, but
last night the wife had a cough-and-wheeze fest on one onerous bone
which made me ponder the tweezers anew.

On 2013-08-20 21:43:17 +0000, Janet Wilder said:

>> I did this a couple of years back when I got a smoker. Three times I
>> think, with trout among others. I watched the videos and did my best.
>> Practice makes perfect and I have not yet practised so much.
>
> When I fish in the Laguna Madre we catch a lot of whiting. I just gut
> it and take off the head then I smoke them off the heat side of our gas
> grill with some nice wood chips for smoke. When they are cool, the
> skin and bones separate easily.

Never occured to me do it this way, amazingly. But my intent was to
replicate, as best I could, the smoked fish I get at a serious deli or
at Whole Foods where somebody there is a serious smoked fish nut.

In this quest I brine the fish and everything, cool it to develop a
pellicle, and let it cool down when finished. It never once occured to
me that I could do this with a whole fish. I assume there's no
pellicle, per se, to be had in a whole fish. But I suppose it could be
done. And a hell of a lot easier too!

> DH likes it when I make a "salad" from the smoked whiting with finely
> diced onion, some herbs and mayo.

Reading that makes me really hungry and I just got through eating lunch.

> It's not like a NY Appetizing store whitefish salad, but it's not bad
> and a good way to use whiting which is not good for much but deep
> frying.

Duly noted!

In article om>,
Janet Wilder > wrote:

> On 8/20/2013 12:02 PM, gtr wrote:
> > I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
> > flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
> > collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.
> >
> > The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
> > Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99 a
> > pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it. He
> > did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.
> >
> > Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
> > a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
> > fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
> > got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
> > at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
> >
> > Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> > side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back down
> > to H-Mart again today.
> >
> >
>
> Do you have a good fileting knife. Thin and sharp. They are really
> treasures for that job. If you don't have one, a good "boning" knife
> will do a decent job. I will probably get flamed for the latter suggestion

Well ... a filleting knife is thin and flexible;
a boning knife is thick and stiff. A filleting
knife is much longer than a boning knife.

--
Michael Press

In article <2013082015180939233-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:

> On 2013-08-20 21:40:28 +0000, Janet Wilder said:
>
> >> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
> >> a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
> >> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
> >> got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
> >> at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
> >
> > Do you have a good fileting knife. Thin and sharp. They are really
> > treasures for that job. If you don't have one, a good "boning" knife
> > will do a decent job. I will probably get flamed for the latter
> > suggestion
>
> I don't. I used a 6" Henckels that looks like this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lcavqu6
>
> Though I bought mine for 30 bucks or something 15 years ago: mine looks
> the same.. Why is a boning knife beckon flames?
>
> If I find a relatively cheap fileting knife I may well get it. I assume
> a bona fide fileting knife is one of those backwards-bent things like
> this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mcd8w6b

I do not have a filleting knife. I use a
9 1/2 inch knife that is thin and flexible.
Carbon steel stamped "Nogent France".
Looks exactly like the 7023FS-TI here

<http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm>

I have a couple other carbon steel knives stamped
"Nogent" and they all keep a phenomenally sharp edge
and are easy to dress; including a 12 1/2 inch
beast of a chef's knife. The latter I would not
have except I had to rescue it from an abusive home.

--
Michael Press

On 2013-08-21 00:31:26 +0000, Michael Press said:

> I do not have a filleting knife. I use a
> 9 1/2 inch knife that is thin and flexible.
> Carbon steel stamped "Nogent France".
> Looks exactly like the 7023FS-TI here
>
> <http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm>


Looks much like the one we use for most cutting/chopping.

> I have a couple other carbon steel knives stamped
> "Nogent" and they all keep a phenomenally sharp edge
> and are easy to dress;

Curious, we have to carbon steel knives we've used forever and neither
is thin or very flexible.

> including a 12 1/2 inch beast of a chef's knife. The latter I would not
> have except I had to rescue it from an abusive home.

Funny! For some close friends who had recently been married we bought
an expensive Japanese-made carbon steel knife, much like that Sabetier.
We were there a couple of years later doing something and I saw it in a
drawer with a bunch of junk, bottle openers and all kinds of crap. I
looked at the edge from a standing position and could see that it was
gouged and totally ****ed up, likely from doing house hold tasks.

They both work hard at very high-stress jobs as lawyers, frequently
getting home late. We had dinner at their home a few weeks ago. They've
begun hiring a chef that cooks for them Monday's and Wednesdays. They
(the chef and sous chef), make up plenty of meals so the two of them
can eat for 4-5 days, they eat out on weekends. The dinner we shared
with them was *fantastic* by the way.

In article <201308201834354075-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:

> On 2013-08-21 00:31:26 +0000, Michael Press said:
>
> > I do not have a filleting knife. I use a
> > 9 1/2 inch knife that is thin and flexible.
> > Carbon steel stamped "Nogent France".
> > Looks exactly like the 7023FS-TI here
> >
> > <http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm>
>
>
> Looks much like the one we use for most cutting/chopping.

It is too flexible for that. The back of the blade
is 0.05 inch midway between the handle and tip.
It is for slicing and filleting.
Chopping and cutting needs a rigid blade.

--
Michael Press

On 8/20/2013 1:02 PM, gtr wrote:
> I went to the local H-Mart (a really nice Korean market) to get
> flounder--something I've never cooked. I had a bunch recipes idly
> collected, including the piccata mentioned hereabouts.
>
> The flounder was live, cost 17.95 a pound. Next to it, was fresh "Ocean
> Perch" aka Pacific rockfish, among other names. It was pretty and 5.99 a
> pound. I got a one at two pounds. I asked that he clean and filet it. He
> did his business while I looked at other ocean treasures.
>
> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
> a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
> got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
> at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>
> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back down
> to H-Mart again today.
>
>
You wrote it right -- you have to practice. Seeing those fish I'm not
sure I could filet one. Most of my family went to Myrtle Beach last
week and I got to see pics of 2 my nephew caught just doing coastal
fishing, maybe off of a pier. Nice sized! I'd try to filet them.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:59:13 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:

> In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
>>to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
>>was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
>>didn't know and hadn't researched.
>>

What I've read and works for me is that if you can turn it without the
fish sticking, it is ready on that side. I guess somehow the pan knows
when it's ready to be turned.
--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 8/20/2013 6:18 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-08-20 21:40:28 +0000, Janet Wilder said:
>
>>> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I did
>>> a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic job of
>>> fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done. Also--I
>>> got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be pretty good
>>> at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
>>
>> Do you have a good fileting knife. Thin and sharp. They are really
>> treasures for that job. If you don't have one, a good "boning" knife
>> will do a decent job. I will probably get flamed for the latter
>> suggestion
>
> I don't. I used a 6" Henckels that looks like this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lcavqu6
>
> Though I bought mine for 30 bucks or something 15 years ago: mine looks
> the same.. Why is a boning knife beckon flames?
>
> If I find a relatively cheap fileting knife I may well get it. I assume
> a bona fide fileting knife is one of those backwards-bent things like this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mcd8w6b
>
> Of course I'm not buying anything that expensive. I'd have to eat cheap
> fish the rest of my life to get back my investment...
>
I think you want a blade that's thin and easy to navigate through the
flesh yet under the skin.

> While we're at Sur La Table, I sure could have used a bone-picker-outer
> tweezers. Japanese food fans, neither of us balk at boney fish, but last
> night the wife had a cough-and-wheeze fest on one onerous bone which
> made me ponder the tweezers anew.
>


--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 2013-08-21 02:51:52 +0000, Michael Press said:

> In article <201308201834354075-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:
>
>> On 2013-08-21 00:31:26 +0000, Michael Press said:
>>
>>> I do not have a filleting knife. I use a
>>> 9 1/2 inch knife that is thin and flexible.
>>> Carbon steel stamped "Nogent France".
>>> Looks exactly like the 7023FS-TI here
>>>
>>> <http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm>
>>
>>
>> Looks much like the one we use for most cutting/chopping.
>
> It is too flexible for that. The back of the blade
> is 0.05 inch midway between the handle and tip.
> It is for slicing and filleting.
> Chopping and cutting needs a rigid blade.

Ours is the same shape but not that thin. Not flexible at all.

gtr wrote:

> Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
> have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

After scaling the fish, gently rub it with half a slice of lemon (a slice
cut in half along the diameter): the lemon juice will make the skin more
elastic and less prone to breaking while you turn / handle the fish.
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

In article <2013082012591310707-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:

> On 2013-08-20 19:44:31 +0000, Helpful person said:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02:35 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
> >>
> >> Once home I opened it to find that it was cleaned but not fileted. I
> >> did a really lame job of getting the head off and even more pathetic
> >> job of fileting it, but what the hell, I managed to get the job done.
> >> Also--I got another shot at fileting a fish, which I figured I'll be
> >> pretty good at one day only if I do it anothe 40 times.
> >>
> >> Slathered some olive oil and thyme on it, broiled it for a 3 minutes a
> >> side. Tasty, easy (despite the filet job) and cheap. I'm going back
> >> down to H-Mart again today.
> >
> > Next time cook the fish on the bone and with the head and filet as you
> > eat at the table. It will taste much better.
>
> The wife suggested that, but with neither of us having never done this
> before, I was unsure how best to go about it. Most of the time, I
> dress the fish/chicken/beef and then pop it in the broiler. I take my
> guesses about how long it should be on each side, usually 3-4 minutes a
> side.
>
> In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
> to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
> was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
> didn't know and hadn't researched.
>
> Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
> have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...

There is a line along both sides of the fish demarcating
the boundary where bones grow upward and downward.
(this is also the line where sense organs are located
sense organs that detect small water currents allowing
the fish to tell where other fish are and accounting for
how schools of fish seem to move with a single mind.)
At the table use your fish knife to cut through the
skin and through the flesh along that line. Now insert
a fork along that line and draw it parallel to the
small bones either upwards or downwards away from the
spine thus removing a perfect, bone free morsel.

--
Michael Press

On 8/21/2013 12:32 AM, Cheryl wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:59:13 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
>
>> In the case of the whole fish, as thick as it was, I figured I'd need
>>> to bake it or poach it, instead of broiling it in order to ensure it
>>> was done all the way through. So the whole process was something I
>>> didn't know and hadn't researched.
>>>
>
> What I've read and works for me is that if you can turn it without the
> fish sticking, it is ready on that side. I guess somehow the pan knows
> when it's ready to be turned.

Don't you hate recipes like that! It's sometimes impossible to peek at
the side that is cooking without messing up the appearance. Scallops are
an example of that and I think the best solution is for the cook to get
the examined piece.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2013-08-21 08:47:32 +0000, ViLco said:

> gtr wrote:
>
>> Any guidance regarding approaches to whole-fish are appreciated. We
>> have no worries about actually EATing a whole fish...
>
> After scaling the fish, gently rub it with half a slice of lemon (a
> slice cut in half along the diameter): the lemon juice will make the
> skin more elastic and less prone to breaking while you turn / handle
> the fish.

Good one!

Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes. Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:27:41 -0700, gtr > wrote:

>On 2013-08-20 21:43:17 +0000, Janet Wilder said:
>
>>> I did this a couple of years back when I got a smoker. Three times I
>>> think, with trout among others. I watched the videos and did my best.
>>> Practice makes perfect and I have not yet practised so much.
>>
>> When I fish in the Laguna Madre we catch a lot of whiting. I just gut
>> it and take off the head then I smoke them off the heat side of our gas
>> grill with some nice wood chips for smoke. When they are cool, the
>> skin and bones separate easily.
>
>Never occured to me do it this way, amazingly. But my intent was to
>replicate, as best I could, the smoked fish I get at a serious deli or
>at Whole Foods where somebody there is a serious smoked fish nut.

Most serious delis sell smoked fish that are fully intact except for
the guts and scales.
One of my faves is whitefish, I like smoked mackerel too:
http://bluestatebbq.files.wordpress....dwhitefish.jpg
http://www.fionabutton.com/wp-conten...erel.jpg?w=300

On 2013-08-21 16:26:35 +0000, Gorio said:

> Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and
> when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil
> salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the
> oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes.
> Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.

I like pike though have never tried to cook it. That does take a lot
more time than I'm used to in preparing dinner though...

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:40:00 -0700, gtr > wrote:

>On 2013-08-21 16:26:35 +0000, Gorio said:
>
>> Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and
>> when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil
>> salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the
>> oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes.
>> Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.
>
>I like pike though have never tried to cook it. That does take a lot
>more time than I'm used to in preparing dinner though...

Pike is essential for gefilte fish

On 8/21/2013 8:20 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:40:00 -0700, gtr > wrote:
>
>> On 2013-08-21 16:26:35 +0000, Gorio said:
>>
>>> Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and
>>> when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil
>>> salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the
>>> oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes.
>>> Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.
>>
>> I like pike though have never tried to cook it. That does take a lot
>> more time than I'm used to in preparing dinner though...
>
> Pike is essential for gefilte fish
>
When you can't get normal gefilte fish fish, you make do. I have used
tilapia and made really good gefilte fish. It's knowing how much onion
and carrot and how to cook it properly.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:10:11 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>On 8/21/2013 8:20 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:40:00 -0700, gtr > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2013-08-21 16:26:35 +0000, Gorio said:
>>>
>>>> Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and
>>>> when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil
>>>> salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the
>>>> oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes.
>>>> Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.
>>>
>>> I like pike though have never tried to cook it. That does take a lot
>>> more time than I'm used to in preparing dinner though...
>>
>> Pike is essential for gefilte fish
>>
>When you can't get normal gefilte fish fish, you make do. I have used
>tilapia and made really good gefilte fish. It's knowing how much onion
>and carrot and how to cook it properly.

You really can't make "proper" gefilte fish with ocean fish, has to be
*fresh* fresh water fish (typically purchased live at a NYC fish
monger from a tank, not dead, never frozen. The "proper" method is to
gut and skin a large fish leaving the skin, head, and fins intact...
then stuff with the ground/chopped/hocked fish meat, seasoned to taste
(there is no one way, every family has its own 'tam'), and poached in
rich fish stock made from fish trimmings. I grew up in a
Jewish/Italian/Irish hood in Brooklyn, I know all about real gefilte
fish and lots of other Jewish cookery. Those ground fish balls folks
make is NOT gefilte fish... gefilte fish means stuffed fish... how do
you stuff balls? hehe Those awful fish balls are what non Jews
(Goyim) prepare/eat... if that's what you prepare then you are wasting
your time and efforts, you may as well buy jarred. I don't make
gefilte fish often because it's a lot of work and live fresh water
fish is difficult to come by and expensive, unless I catch my own.
Okay, I guess if you make goyim gefilte fish it's somewhat passable,
but so long as you serve it with horseradish you prepared yourself,
fresh... the wussy crap from a jar doesn't cut it, REAL horseradish
has to give the top of your head a powerful orgasm.

Okay, I was out mowing today and when I got my tractor from the barn I
discovered there weren't three new kittens, there are four, two
tuxedos, one calico, one blondie, real beauties... gotta find them
proper homes... they'll be brought into my house this evening or
tomorrow for sure, they are probably already weaned and won't survive
out there... not to worry, they will be well cared for in my hotel and
they will all get proper homes or they won't be released until they
do. I'm pretty sure one maybe two already have a home, the grand's
playmate is envious and wants kittens too. If one of the tuxedos is a
female I'll probably keep her myself. I already know that blondie is
a male.

And right now poor Newt is at the Vet, turned out his lip wasn't cut,
he has an abscessed tooth and he's been attmpting to extract it
himself, poor little guy must have been in a lot of pain... the Vet
said we got him there in time, he will be fine, he may even be back
home tomorrow. I do whatever it takes, once I take in an animal it's
my responsibility, they count on me.

On 8/22/2013 4:33 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:10:11 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>> On 8/21/2013 8:20 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:40:00 -0700, gtr > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2013-08-21 16:26:35 +0000, Gorio said:
>>>>
>>>>> Interesting read, here. No sea by me; but in WI we have nice lakes and
>>>>> when I catch a tough-to-fillet fish (Northern Pike) I just olive oil
>>>>> salt and pepper, herbs in the gut and wrap it in foil and into to the
>>>>> oven for an hour on the middle rack at 300, then 200 after 40 minutes.
>>>>> Head on, skin on, etc. Just gutted. My family loves the stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I like pike though have never tried to cook it. That does take a lot
>>>> more time than I'm used to in preparing dinner though...
>>>
>>> Pike is essential for gefilte fish
>>>
>> When you can't get normal gefilte fish fish, you make do. I have used
>> tilapia and made really good gefilte fish. It's knowing how much onion
>> and carrot and how to cook it properly.
>
> You really can't make "proper" gefilte fish with ocean fish, has to be
> *fresh* fresh water fish (typically purchased live at a NYC fish
> monger from a tank, not dead, never frozen. The "proper" method is to
> gut and skin a large fish leaving the skin, head, and fins intact...
> then stuff with the ground/chopped/hocked fish meat, seasoned to taste
> (there is no one way, every family has its own 'tam'), and poached in
> rich fish stock made from fish trimmings. I grew up in a
> Jewish/Italian/Irish hood in Brooklyn, I know all about real gefilte
> fish and lots of other Jewish cookery. Those ground fish balls folks
> make is NOT gefilte fish... gefilte fish means stuffed fish... how do
> you stuff balls? hehe Those awful fish balls are what non Jews
> (Goyim) prepare/eat... if that's what you prepare then you are wasting
> your time and efforts, you may as well buy jarred. I don't make
> gefilte fish often because it's a lot of work and live fresh water
> fish is difficult to come by and expensive, unless I catch my own.
> Okay, I guess if you make goyim gefilte fish it's somewhat passable,
> but so long as you serve it with horseradish you prepared yourself,
> fresh... the wussy crap from a jar doesn't cut it, REAL horseradish
> has to give the top of your head a powerful orgasm.


I am not going to disagree with you. I just live in a place where none
of the traditional fish is available. Also, this might come as a shock
to you, the reason pike, whitefish, carp and mullet a/k/a
buffel" are traditional is that they were easily available in Eastern
Europe.

My mother would wrap a few pieces in skin for my dad. My sister and I
would avoid it. On Rosh HaShanna, which translates literally to "the
head of the year" she would stuff a fish head for Dad.
>
> Okay, I was out mowing today and when I got my tractor from the barn I
> discovered there weren't three new kittens, there are four, two
> tuxedos, one calico, one blondie, real beauties... gotta find them
> proper homes... they'll be brought into my house this evening or
> tomorrow for sure, they are probably already weaned and won't survive
> out there... not to worry, they will be well cared for in my hotel and
> they will all get proper homes or they won't be released until they
> do. I'm pretty sure one maybe two already have a home, the grand's
> playmate is envious and wants kittens too. If one of the tuxedos is a
> female I'll probably keep her myself. I already know that blondie is
> a male.

Bless you, Sheldon for caring for the kittens. As soon as I'm well and
the shelter gets another tiny baby that needs fostering, we will take
it. would be unfair to take any now when I am not physically up to it.
They need so much attention.

> And right now poor Newt is at the Vet, turned out his lip wasn't cut,
> he has an abscessed tooth and he's been attmpting to extract it
> himself, poor little guy must have been in a lot of pain... the Vet
> said we got him there in time, he will be fine, he may even be back
> home tomorrow. I do whatever it takes, once I take in an animal it's
> my responsibility, they count on me.
>

I hope Newt recovers well.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:43:17 PM UTC-5, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>
> When I fish in the Laguna Madre we catch a lot of whiting. I just gut
>
> it and take off the head then I smoke them off the heat side of our gas
>
> grill with some nice wood chips for smoke. When they are cool, the skin
>
> and bones separate easily.
>
You are lucky that you like whiting. You'd have to pay me to eat one,
though I've only had them fried, never smoked. My mother used to make it
sometimes. She called it jack salmon, and there wasn't any amount of
RealLemon that could cover up the taste.
>
> Janet Wilder

--Bryan O|O

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:27:41 PM UTC-5, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-08-20 21:43:17 +0000, Janet Wilder said:
> >
> > It's not like a NY Appetizing store whitefish salad, but it's not bad
>
> > and a good way to use whiting which is not good for much but deep
>
> > frying.
>
> Duly noted!

From what I've heard, whiting makes good bait for larger fish like sharks.

--Bryan

On 8/22/2013 8:19 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> I do NOT do foster care, I do rescue, big difference, I don't do
> temporary. Foster care is for those who don't take full
> responsibility. When I rescue an animal it's gauranteed a good home
> no matter how long it takes. Fostering an animal is like fostering a
> child, when it becomes inconvenient the child is returned to the
> institution, but with animals they invaribly go back to be euthanized.
> Animals I rescue either get a good home or I adopt them, but they
> never go anywhere that endangers their existance. Only the lowest of
> lowly scumbags foster animals.
>

Every single one of the kittens we fostered are living in good homes and
have been neutered or spayed. They never belong to us, they always
belong to the shelter and are all adopted through the local shelter
where the adoption fee pays for the spaying or neutering an micro chipping.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Vegan Earthworm Holocaust wrote:
> You are lucky that you like whiting. You'd have to pay me to eat one,

LOL! You are the 2nd person here to say that. You for whiting and
gtr for frozen burritoes.

If anyone here wants to pay me for eating something, let me know. I
have chronic TIAD and I'll eat most anything...especially if I'll get
paid for it. LOL!

G.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 10:50:56 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> Vegan Earthworm Holocaust wrote:
>
> > You are lucky that you like whiting. You'd have to pay me to eat one,
>
>
>
> LOL! You are the 2nd person here to say that. You for whiting and
>
> gtr for frozen burritoes.
>
>
>
> If anyone here wants to pay me for eating something, let me know. I
>
> have chronic TIAD and I'll eat most anything...especially if I'll get
>
> paid for it. LOL!
>
I also chimed in on the frozen burrito thing.
I've always wondered what folks who will pretty much eat any kind of
poor quality slop put in front of them see in a newsgroup about cooking,
and can only assume it's the winning personalities of the RFC regulars.
>
> G.

--Bryan O|O

Vegan Earthworm Holocaust wrote:
>
> I also chimed in on the frozen burrito thing.
> I've always wondered what folks who will pretty much eat any kind of
> poor quality slop put in front of them see in a newsgroup about cooking,
> and can only assume it's the winning personalities of the RFC regulars.

It's because I eat almost every thing and not a lot of any one thing.
I like "crap" meals occasionally but I do cook (maybe even to YOUR
satisfaction) too. I'm having spaghetti tonight with a homemade sauce
in the freezer that I'll bet is better than any you've ever cooked.


Do we need a "Throwdown" here"

G.

On 2013-08-23 16:44:47 +0000, Vegan Earthworm Holocaust said:

> I also chimed in on the frozen burrito thing.
> I've always wondered what folks who will pretty much eat any kind of
> poor quality slop put in front of them see in a newsgroup about cooking,
> and can only assume it's the winning personalities of the RFC regulars.

Hey, I thought this topic had been brooklynized and was now about
dressing kitties in little sweaters!