On 6/28/2013 2:40 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Be realistic. If WM mowers did not work, they would not be selling
> tens of thousands of them. Rant all you want about squeezing
> suppliers, but unless you can give me failure rates of WM mowers
> versus other brands your conjecture is meaningless.
>
> I bought a small snowblower from them a dozen years ago. Still starts
> on one or two pulls.
>
I'm glad yours worked. I can't say everything I've bought from them was
a dud, though I don't purchase much from them.

> Also, I don't blame WM as much as the vendors that allow themselves to
> be squeezed. They can just say no. Snapper mower did. My company
> has.
>
> Meantime, we have no clue as what the real cause of failure was.
>
And we'll never know. For all I know, someone else returned it for the
same reason and it was put back on the shelf and reshipped to the next
sucker. I can tell you that while Walmart required gas and oil to be
emptied from the mower before you return it, I didn't do that. I don't
know how to. Tip it over? Catch it how? Anyway, they didn't even check.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 28/06/2013 10:18 PM, Cheryl wrote:

> And we'll never know. For all I know, someone else returned it for the
> same reason and it was put back on the shelf and reshipped to the next
> sucker.

I had something similar with another major retailer. I bought a digital
bathroom scale. It didn't work properly. I checked the battery and there
was a date scratched into the battery cover, likely the date that the
previous owner installed a battery. I concluded that someone else had
returned it and they just put everything back in the box neatly and put
it back on the shelf.



> I can tell you that while Walmart required gas and oil to be
> emptied from the mower before you return it, I didn't do that. I don't
> know how to. Tip it over? Catch it how? Anyway, they didn't even check.
>

I don't know why they would want gas and oil out of the machine. They
could be clues to what the problem was.

I bought my lawn tractor from a local lawn equipment dealer. When I had
a problem they sent someone over to pick it up, took it to the shop,
repaired it and then sent if back to me.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:40:22 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 6/27/2013 10:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>
>>> There is! Just set reasonable minimum employment standards. Labor
>>> practices seem to be regressing to those of the 19th Century.
>>> Graham
>>
>> And that will lead to higher prices.
>>
>>
>You'd rather pay less and know that people aren't working for a living wage?


How much more will it cost versus the wage increase? I did hear that
if you paid 42¢ on every trip to WalMart they could pay the workers at
least $10 an hour.
If they make much more money, prices go up and they are in the same
situation. OTOH, the minimum wage in most states and Federal are too
low. It may be OK for teenagers working after school, but working
full time, I don't see how anyone can get by for $8 or so.

It is too simplistic to say, get a better education and better job.
Many people don't possess the brain power to do that and we do need
people in society to perform the unskilled work.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:18:08 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:



>I can tell you that while Walmart required gas and oil to be
>emptied from the mower before you return it, I didn't do that. I don't
>know how to. Tip it over? Catch it how? Anyway, they didn't even check.

It is probably a regulation from their insurance and/or the fire
marshal carrier for safety. Some products are best bought at a place
with the ability to service the product and drain the fuel.

On 6/29/2013 12:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:40:22 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2013 10:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>
>>>> There is! Just set reasonable minimum employment standards. Labor
>>>> practices seem to be regressing to those of the 19th Century.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> And that will lead to higher prices.
>>>
>>>
>> You'd rather pay less and know that people aren't working for a living wage?
>
>
> How much more will it cost versus the wage increase? I did hear that
> if you paid 42¢ on every trip to WalMart they could pay the workers at
> least $10 an hour.
> If they make much more money, prices go up and they are in the same
> situation. OTOH, the minimum wage in most states and Federal are too
> low. It may be OK for teenagers working after school, but working
> full time, I don't see how anyone can get by for $8 or so.
>
> It is too simplistic to say, get a better education and better job.
> Many people don't possess the brain power to do that and we do need
> people in society to perform the unskilled work.
>

This might be silly but if these stores that supply the most people with
the most goods were to charge more, pay more to their employees,
eliminate the only choice of the junk, prepared food that low income
people feel they have no other choice but to buy, they'd make more and
we'd all be more healthy. There's an equation with factoring in there
somewhere if I weren't too tired to think more about it. Yes, someone
needs to do these jobs but they don't have to be so underpaid that they
don't have better choices in order to eat more healthfully.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:52:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:



>
>I had something similar with another major retailer. I bought a digital
>bathroom scale. It didn't work properly. I checked the battery and there
>was a date scratched into the battery cover, likely the date that the
>previous owner installed a battery. I concluded that someone else had
>returned it and they just put everything back in the box neatly and put
>it back on the shelf.

People will buy a new item, they put the old one in the box and return
it the next day. If not checked by the store, you get someone's crap
in a nice new box. Happens often.




>
>I don't know why they would want gas and oil out of the machine. They
>could be clues to what the problem was.

Fire regulations about having gas in the building.

On 6/28/2013 10:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:18:08 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> I can tell you that while Walmart required gas and oil to be
>> emptied from the mower before you return it, I didn't do that. I don't
>> know how to. Tip it over? Catch it how? Anyway, they didn't even check.
>
> It is probably a regulation from their insurance and/or the fire
> marshal carrier for safety. Some products are best bought at a place
> with the ability to service the product and drain the fuel.
>
On a related note, _never_ try and bring an empty propane cylinder back
in any store, just leave it by the outside rack and go in to get the refill.

Stores have strict regulations on allegedly empty cylinders.

Cheryl wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> "graham" wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Just set reasonable minimum employment standards. Labor
>>>>> practices seem to be regressing to those of the 19th Century.
>>>>
>>>> And that will lead to higher prices.
>>>>
>>> You'd rather pay less and know that people aren't working for a living wage?
>>
>> How much more will it cost versus the wage increase? I did hear that
>> if you paid 42¢ on every trip to WalMart they could pay the workers at
>> least $10 an hour.
>> If they make much more money, prices go up and they are in the same
>> situation. OTOH, the minimum wage in most states and Federal are too
>> low. It may be OK for teenagers working after school, but working
>> full time, I don't see how anyone can get by for $8 or so.
>>
>> It is too simplistic to say, get a better education and better job.
>> Many people don't possess the brain power to do that and we do need
>> people in society to perform the unskilled work.
>
>This might be silly but if these stores that supply the most people with
>the most goods were to charge more, pay more to their employees,
>eliminate the only choice of the junk, prepared food that low income
>people feel they have no other choice but to buy, they'd make more and
>we'd all be more healthy. There's an equation with factoring in there
>somewhere if I weren't too tired to think more about it. Yes, someone
>needs to do these jobs but they don't have to be so underpaid that they
>don't have better choices in order to eat more healthfully.


Seems that Cheryl is advocating reinstituting slavery, where those who
can feed those who can't. Otherwise the solutions you're suggesting,
however veiled in illogical claptrap, is to steal from the productive
and give to the non productive, or to sterilize the non producers...
those who don't produce shouldn't be permitted to reproduce. There's
no free lunch Cheryl. May I remind you of a basic tenet embodied in
this writing:

THE MODERN DAY LITTLE RED HEN

Once Upon A Time, there was a little red hen who scratched about
the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her
neighbors and said, "If we plant this wheat we shall have bread to
eat. Who will help me plant it?" "Not I," said the cow, the duck,
the pig and the goose. "Then I will," said the little red hen; and
she did.

The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. "Who will
help me reap the wheat?" asked the little red hen. "Not I," said the
duck, "Out of my classification," said the pig. "I'd lose my
seniority," said the cow. "I'd lose my unemployment compensation,"
said the goose. "Then I will," said the little red hen; and she did.

At last it came time to bake the bread. "Who will help me bake
the bread?" asked the little red hen. "That would be overtime for me"
said the cow. "I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck.
"Discrimination." screamed the goose. "Then I will." said the little
red hen.

She baked five loaves and held them up for her neighbors to see.
They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little
red hen said "No I can eat the five loaves myself." "Excess profits!"
cried the cow. "I demand equal rights!" yelled the goose. The pig
just grunted. And they painted "unfair" picket signs and marched
around and around the little red hen.

When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen,
"You must not be greedy." "But I earned the bread," said the little
red hen. "Exactly," said the agent. "That is the wonderful free
enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he
wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive
workers must divide their product with the idle. So be grateful that
you're permitted to keep a small part of what you produced."

And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red
hen, who smiled and clucked, "I am grateful. I am grateful." But her
neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread.

THE END!

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:44:36 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 6/28/2013 8:15 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>
>> Way back in the day when I was in Big Box management, a HR consultant
>> from the home office visited my store. I had 80 full time and 40 part
>> time people on the payroll... and was told that my new goal was to cut
>> the number of full time workers to 40 and increase the number of part
>> time people to 60. I was to do this through natural attrition (people
>> quitting, retiring). It was informally "suggested" (not in writing)
>> that perhaps some people would leave if their schedules were changed...
>> vacation requests denied, etc. The goal was to do that within 2 years.
>> Basically, management wanted us to bust balls if needed to get people
>> to quit.
>>
>> I didn't say a word about this to my people, but when a full-timer left,
>> I hired 2 part timers but I never harassed any of my people so they
>> would want to quit.
>>
>> I left the company long before that 2 year goal date so I never got
>> called on the results for my store.... but replacing full time with part
>> time people was a national policy and that was back in the early 80's.
>
>I believe it. In the 80s I had a hard time finding full time work and
>worked probably 2-3 part time jobs all of the time, and with no
>benefits.

And nearly forty years later you still possess no marketable skills.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:49:56 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 20:01:56 -0400, Cheryl >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I bought a mower from walmart.com just so I could have it delivered. It
>>> wouldn't even start. So I not only had to waste time trying to start
>>> it, I had to lug it to the closest Walmart to return it. Never again.
>>
>It was obvious this one was never tested.

More likely you didn't know how to start it.

>I learned my lesson about
>buying from big box stores for something like that, though I have to say
>that the rider I bought (online, Home Depot) was shipped to a real
>dealer who filled it with gas and oil and tested it prior to delivery.
>They delivered it fully assembled and on a trailer ready to roll out and
>run it, full tank of gas and all.

Then you arranged to have it shipped to a private lawn equipment
dealer, who in turn added at least 25% more to your bill for not
buying directly from them. I don't really believe your fercocktah
story anyway, no on line seller like Home Depot is going to ship to an
authorized dealer nor would an authorized dealer accept product they
are not authorized to sell/service. There are plenty of private
authorized lawn equipment dealers, but they don't handle the low
priced crap that's sold at the big box stores. Home Depot, Lowe's,
and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.

On 6/29/2013 8:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Home Depot, Lowe's,
> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.

They sell John Deere, which are never "crap".

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>I had something similar with another major retailer. I bought a digital
>>bathroom scale. It didn't work properly. I checked the battery and there
>>was a date scratched into the battery cover, likely the date that the
>>previous owner installed a battery. I concluded that someone else had
>>returned it and they just put everything back in the box neatly and put
>>it back on the shelf.

Another typical Smith barroom fairy tale... a new digital bathroom
scale would be in a sealed box, and if batterys are included they'd be
sealed in a plastic over wrap, not inserted. Every electronic
appliance I've ever bought that has batterys included the batterys are
NOT installed, and in fact they are wrapped.

>People will buy a new item, they put the old one in the box and return
>it the next day. If not checked by the store, you get someone's crap
>in a nice new box. Happens often.

A toaster but not a mower, especially not a riding mower. Once it's
been fueled they will give you a phone number for their repair
center... and of course it's been fueled otherwise how would one know
it doesn't start. I once brought a chain saw back to a Sears store
but they'd not accept it with fuel in it, I had to bring it to their
service center... picked it up a week later and it worked perfectly
for many years. You need to give the seller an opportunity to make it
right under the terms of the warranty... they don't exchange a fueled
mower without being given an opportunity to repair it... if they need
to replace the engine on a riding mower they will. My chain saw only
needed a minor carborator adjustment.

On 29/06/2013 10:30 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

>
>
> Seems that Cheryl is advocating reinstituting slavery, where those who
> can feed those who can't.

???? Like on the plantations in the old south where the slaves worked
the fields, reaped the crops, hauled them to market, tended the animals,
milked the cow, gathered the eggs, slaughtered and plucked the chickens,
and cooked the meals. Where there were slaves the slaves fed the
owners. They did the work while the owners got the money

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:40:22 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

> On 6/27/2013 10:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> > "graham" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
>
> >> There is! Just set reasonable minimum employment standards. Labor
> >> practices seem to be regressing to those of the 19th Century.
> >> Graham
> >
> > And that will lead to higher prices.
> >
> >
> You'd rather pay less and know that people aren't working for a living wage?

I think most of the people who can't understand the concept of a
living wage haven't connected the dots. They don't understand that
they are paying anyway and they are paying a lot more to support all
of the stores who have cut their workers back to under 30 hours at the
federal minimum wage level.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 29/06/2013 10:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Then you arranged to have it shipped to a private lawn equipment
> dealer, who in turn added at least 25% more to your bill for not
> buying directly from them. I don't really believe your fercocktah
> story anyway, no on line seller like Home Depot is going to ship to an
> authorized dealer nor would an authorized dealer accept product they
> are not authorized to sell/service. There are plenty of private
> authorized lawn equipment dealers, but they don't handle the low
> priced crap that's sold at the big box stores. Home Depot, Lowe's,
> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.
>


Unfortunately, too many people are too concerned with the lowest price
and are not willing to pay for quality products. My father always
insisted on quality tools. I learned my lesson years ago. When string
trimmers first came out they were pretty expensive. I had an electric
one but my yard is too big and has too many trees, so when Green
Machines came along and were more affordable I bought one. I bought a
number of them over the years. I rarely got a whole season out of one.
A guy in my wife's church has a lawn equipment business so I took the
latest dead GreenMachine to him. He did not want to touch it. He said it
wasn't worth it. It would cost more for parts than a new one, and that
it would not last. He recommended getting a better one..... and Echo.
It was twice as much as the cheap machine. It was a lot more comfortable
to use. It had a heavier line and cut a wider swath. It did the job
better and faster than the cheap one. I have had the Echo for more than
10 years. It still starts up easily and runs great.

And... I was able to buy a blade attachment for it. I can use that to
cut back the brush along the trails in woods and when the streams run
dry in the summer I can get in there and cut through the heavy stuff.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 00:22:30 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

> This might be silly but if these stores that supply the most people with
> the most goods were to charge more, pay more to their employees,
> eliminate the only choice of the junk, prepared food that low income
> people feel they have no other choice but to buy, they'd make more and
> we'd all be more healthy. There's an equation with factoring in there
> somewhere if I weren't too tired to think more about it. Yes, someone
> needs to do these jobs but they don't have to be so underpaid that they
> don't have better choices in order to eat more healthfully.

Whoa Cheryl. Logic doesn't work here. Lower prices at the cash
register is their *only* goal. Never mind that a living wage and
normal health care will mean we won't have to support the perpetually
under paid through welfare and emergency room visits for non-emergency
issues.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:44:36 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

> On 6/28/2013 8:15 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>
> >
> > I left the company long before that 2 year goal date so I never got
> > called on the results for my store.... but replacing full time with part
> > time people was a national policy and that was back in the early 80's.
>
> I believe it. In the 80s I had a hard time finding full time work and
> worked probably 2-3 part time jobs all of the time, and with no
> benefits. People seem to forget this isn't the hardest time we've had
> in our country's history.

It may not be the hardest time in our country's history, but it's
likely to be the worst time in their lives because they were still
children in the '80s. As a young married person at the time, I
remember being more affected by the oil crisis of the '70s than the
recession of the '80s.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/29/2013 10:49 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:40:22 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2013 10:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>
>>>> There is! Just set reasonable minimum employment standards. Labor
>>>> practices seem to be regressing to those of the 19th Century.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> And that will lead to higher prices.
>>>
>>>
>> You'd rather pay less and know that people aren't working for a living wage?
>
> I think most of the people who can't understand the concept of a
> living wage haven't connected the dots. They don't understand that
> they are paying anyway and they are paying a lot more to support all
> of the stores who have cut their workers back to under 30 hours at the
> federal minimum wage level.
>
The concept of pass through health care costs is a valid one.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:48:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:20:33 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 14:40:57 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >> Also, I don't blame WM as much as the vendors that allow themselves to
> >> be squeezed. They can just say no. Snapper mower did. My company
> >> has.
> >
> >Was that before or after WM became their biggest customer?
>
> Snapper never became a supplier. They sell only through their regular
> dealers, making them happy too.
>
> We have an item we sell for $1.10. Every year, we sell maybe 3
> truckloads of them to a local distributor. WalMart offered to buy 15
> truckloads, but the price had to be 85¢. Sorry, not interested.

So your company didn't deal with them other than a negotiation that
fell through. What Walmart et al do is squeeze the life out of their
suppliers/vendors.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:21 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

> NAFTA and GATT have systemically done far more damage, as H. Ross Perot
> was kind enough to illustrate for us years ago..

I thought NAFTA was a bad idea back when it was rolled out, but I'm
less opposed to it now.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 29/06/2013 1:18 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:21 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> NAFTA and GATT have systemically done far more damage, as H. Ross Perot
>> was kind enough to illustrate for us years ago..
>
> I thought NAFTA was a bad idea back when it was rolled out, but I'm
> less opposed to it now.
>


You should appreciate NAFTA. It was pretty well designed to guarantee
Americans access to resources. There used to be a lot of high paying
manufacturing jobs in this area. One by one the major companies have
shut down and moved their operations to places with cheaper labour and
little protection for workers or the environment. Business are not
interested in paying $25 or more per hour and have to abide by
environmental regulations here if they can pay someone $10 a day and
pollute with impunity.

The local community got a sever hit about two years ago when John
Deere closed its local plant and moved to Mexico.

On 6/29/2013 11:18 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:21 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> NAFTA and GATT have systemically done far more damage, as H. Ross Perot
>> was kind enough to illustrate for us years ago..
>
> I thought NAFTA was a bad idea back when it was rolled out, but I'm
> less opposed to it now.
>
It has more than any other treaty out us in direct competition and lock
step with low global wage rates. That may have been inevitable, but we
didn't have to court it.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 09:09:35 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

>On 6/29/2013 8:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Home Depot, Lowe's,
>> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
>> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.
>
>They sell John Deere, which are never "crap".

I knew someone would mention that... those are not JD mowers, they're
Chink Crap that JD licenses to use their name and paint. If you
examine those mowers all the different brands use the exact same
formed sheet metal chassis, only the body paint differs.

On 6/29/2013 11:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 09:09:35 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/29/2013 8:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> Home Depot, Lowe's,
>>> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
>>> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.
>>
>> They sell John Deere, which are never "crap".
>
> I knew someone would mention that... those are not JD mowers, they're
> Chink Crap that JD licenses to use their name and paint. If you
> examine those mowers all the different brands use the exact same
> formed sheet metal chassis, only the body paint differs.

If you look at the zero clearance lever steer models, I doubt it.

http://www.ask.com/explore/popular-lawn-mowers-made-usa

Riding Mowers

When it comes to popular riding lawn mowers made in the USA, consider
John Deere. The X304 has a 42-inch cutting swath. It's not a zero-turn
mower, but is stable on hills. It retails for about $3,600. The Z225 is
a zero-turn mower and also has a 42-inch cutting swath. The zero-turn
feature means you'll cut flat areas much faster. It retails for about
$3,000.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_John_Deere_made_in_the_USA

Is John Deere made in the USA?

Answer:
Which John Deere's? Tractors-yes, lawn mowers-yes, combines-yes, and
most equipment-yes. The only John Deeres built out of the U.S. that I
can think of are sold to foreign markets, most likely the same place
they are built.

On 6/29/2013 12:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> I knew someone would mention that... those are not JD mowers, they're
> Chink Crap that JD licenses to use their name and paint. If you
> examine those mowers all the different brands use the exact same
> formed sheet metal chassis, only the body paint differs.

Well... you are kind of right but not all the way.

John Deere's lawn and garden tractors all used to be made in their
Horicon, WI factory. Some of the heavier stuff is still made there.
But about 15, 20 years ago, John Deere came out with a less expensive
line of lawn tractors (Saber, later renamed LT100) and they opened a
plant in North Carolina to do some metalworking and professional turf
equipment but most of the consumer tractors are assembled in Greenville, TN.

In addition, they started subbing out constructions of various parts
(like transmissions which are made in Tennessee) and other sub
assemblies. They also sub out the manufacture of smaller pieces like
string trimmers which are made for them by Echo (pretty good machines).

To top that off, the JD plant in North Carolina and Greenville, TN
started making mowers for other companies. If you see a Scott's Lawn
Tractor... chances are it was made by John Deere.

Generally, any John Deere lawn tractor that begins with an "LT" is the
less expensive model. The "X" series are the heavier duty ones and
still made in Wisconsin.

None are assembled outside the US, but some motors and sub assemblies
may be from other countries.... especially the Kawasaki engines that
they are using.

George L

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 10:14:44 -0700, sf > wrote:



>>
>> We have an item we sell for $1.10. Every year, we sell maybe 3
>> truckloads of them to a local distributor. WalMart offered to buy 15
>> truckloads, but the price had to be 85¢. Sorry, not interested.
>
>So your company didn't deal with them other than a negotiation that
>fell through. What Walmart et al do is squeeze the life out of their
>suppliers/vendors.

Exactly. It was a rather short negotiation. They were firm with
their offer, we were firm in not caving in to their demands.

We did the same thing with a major appliance manufacturer about 10 or
so years ago. We had done business with them for a number of years
and they always squeezed us for price the second year on new items.
Their reasoning (somewhat true) is that you startup costs have been
recovered and you found better, faster ways to make the items.

One year we got a letter and they stated in the season upcoming, they
wanted a 25% price reduction, a 5% rebate on the previous years sales,
and terms of 180 days. Our reply was very short. "Where do you want
us to send your tooling?" A competitor took the business away from us
and filed bankruptcy the following year. Now the finished product is
made in China so we'd have lost it in a year anyway. It was a
$1million account.

Wal Mart may squeeze, but the suppliers make the final decision to
cave in. Shame on them. Google WalMart+Vlasic Pickle for an example
of dumb management. WalMart+Snapper mower for smart management.

WalMart may be the best at it, but others are doing the same.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:40:24 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 29/06/2013 10:30 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Seems that Cheryl is advocating reinstituting slavery, where those who
> > can feed those who can't.
>
> ???? Like on the plantations in the old south where the slaves worked
> the fields, reaped the crops, hauled them to market, tended the animals,
> milked the cow, gathered the eggs, slaughtered and plucked the chickens,
> and cooked the meals. Where there were slaves the slaves fed the
> owners. They did the work while the owners got the money
>
>
That's exactly the way it is now, only the word slavery is forbidden.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
> somehow.


The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts.
How many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?

I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
people in the store, something is wrong.

George L

On 6/29/2013 5:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>> somehow.
>
>
> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>
> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
> people in the store, something is wrong.
>

Are cashiers the lowest paid? I would have thought the packers who put
stuff in bags are paid less. I've been told that packer is on the route
to checker.


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 16:12:22 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

>On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>> somehow.
>
>
>The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts.
>How many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>
>I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
>people in the store, something is wrong.
>
>George L

Funny thing is, around here the Wal Marts did away with them after
about six months. I hate using them though, much prefer a couple of
minutes for a real person.

I've tried them a couple of times with poor results. Had a $2 off
coupon that had to be rung up by a cashier so I had to wait anyway.
Another time there was too much on the belt so I had to bag and then
start again. While most people are honest, I bet there is a lot of
theft there too.

On 6/29/2013 3:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>> somehow.
>
>
> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?

If most of my local stores count - 3 per store.

It still takes one ventral cashier to monitor and handle mis-rings.

> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
> people in the store, something is wrong.
>
> George L

Plus they're a pain to use, always falsing if you don't hit the bagging
weight sensor just right.

We get a fair amount of spring wind and one store had to reset them just
for that.

Touchy.

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/29/2013 5:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
>> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>>> somehow.
>>
>>
>> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
>> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>>
>> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
>> people in the store, something is wrong.
>>
>
> Are cashiers the lowest paid? I would have thought the packers who put
> stuff in bags are paid less. I've been told that packer is on the route to
> checker.
>
One local supermarket chain often has mentally handicapped people doing the
packing, not exploiting them but probably as a work experience program with
Social Services.
Graham

On 6/29/2013 3:44 PM, graham wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 6/29/2013 5:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
>>> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>>>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>>>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>>>> somehow.
>>>
>>>
>>> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
>>> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>>>
>>> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
>>> people in the store, something is wrong.
>>>
>>
>> Are cashiers the lowest paid? I would have thought the packers who put
>> stuff in bags are paid less. I've been told that packer is on the route to
>> checker.
>>
> One local supermarket chain often has mentally handicapped people doing the
> packing, not exploiting them but probably as a work experience program with
> Social Services.
> Graham
>
>
We see that here also and they do a great job and are always friendly
and seem glad to be out and about, a real win-win for all.

On 6/29/2013 4:16 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> Are cashiers the lowest paid? I would have thought the packers who put
> stuff in bags are paid less. I've been told that packer is on the route
> to checker.

Most Walmarts do not have packers.

George L

On 6/29/2013 4:44 PM, graham wrote:
> One local supermarket chain often has mentally handicapped people doing the
> packing, not exploiting them but probably as a work experience program with
> Social Services.
> Graham

Krogers also does that. Very good program.

George L

On 29/06/2013 5:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>> somehow.
>
>
> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>
> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
> people in the store, something is wrong.
>
>
What bothers me even more is that some of the cashiers have to go over
there and encourage people to use them and help them to check themselves
out. Any time they have approached me to ask me if I want to use the
self checkout I ask if they fell like a Judas goat, encouraging people
to use self checkout and screwing themeselves out of jobs.

I might be more willing to use a self checkout when they introduce the
self help return desk.,.. just bring things in throw down a receipt and
punch in how much cash you want back.

On 29/06/2013 5:16 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 6/29/2013 5:12 PM, George Leppla wrote:
>> On 6/29/2013 1:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Do you ever work for low wages? How about no wages? Every time you
>>> go to a fast food joint and fill your own beverage cup and buss your
>>> own table, you are working for free. Got to keep that dollar menu
>>> somehow.
>>
>>
>> The thing that sets my teeth on edge are the self-service checkouts. How
>> many cashiers have been put out of work by these things?
>>
>> I mean, when your idea of making a profit is going after the lowest paid
>> people in the store, something is wrong.
>>
>
> Are cashiers the lowest paid? I would have thought the packers who put
> stuff in bags are paid less. I've been told that packer is on the route
> to checker.
>
>
Around here bagers are usually special opportunity jobs.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:06:21 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

>On 6/29/2013 11:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 09:09:35 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/29/2013 8:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> Home Depot, Lowe's,
>>>> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
>>>> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.
>>>
>>> They sell John Deere, which are never "crap".
>>
>> I knew someone would mention that... those are not JD mowers, they're
>> Chink Crap that JD licenses to use their name and paint. If you
>> examine those mowers all the different brands use the exact same
>> formed sheet metal chassis, only the body paint differs.
>
>If you look at the zero clearance lever steer models, I doubt it.
>
>http://www.ask.com/explore/popular-lawn-mowers-made-usa
>
>Riding Mowers
>
>When it comes to popular riding lawn mowers made in the USA, consider
>John Deere. The X304 has a 42-inch cutting swath. It's not a zero-turn
>mower, but is stable on hills. It retails for about $3,600. The Z225 is
>a zero-turn mower and also has a 42-inch cutting swath. The zero-turn
>feature means you'll cut flat areas much faster. It retails for about
>$3,000.
>
>http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_John_Deere_made_in_the_USA
>
>Is John Deere made in the USA?
>
>Answer:
>Which John Deere's? Tractors-yes, lawn mowers-yes, combines-yes, and
>most equipment-yes. The only John Deeres built out of the U.S. that I
>can think of are sold to foreign markets, most likely the same place
>they are built.

Reread what I wrote above. Go to an *authorized* John Deere dealer
and price a machine. Go here and search for where to buy a John Deere
mower in your zip code, no big box store will come up, only authorized
dealers sell real John Deere machines:
http://dealerlocator.deere.com/servlet/

John Deere does licence use of their name/logo... you can actually buy
a John Deere at Toys R Us:
http://www.toysrus.com/family/index....oryId=12549351

On 6/29/2013 3:56 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:06:21 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/29/2013 11:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 09:09:35 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/29/2013 8:57 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> Home Depot, Lowe's,
>>>>> and their ilk doesn't sell quality mowing equipment... all those toys
>>>>> r us riding mowers you see lined up there are crap.
>>>>
>>>> They sell John Deere, which are never "crap".
>>>
>>> I knew someone would mention that... those are not JD mowers, they're
>>> Chink Crap that JD licenses to use their name and paint. If you
>>> examine those mowers all the different brands use the exact same
>>> formed sheet metal chassis, only the body paint differs.
>>
>> If you look at the zero clearance lever steer models, I doubt it.
>>
>> http://www.ask.com/explore/popular-lawn-mowers-made-usa
>>
>> Riding Mowers
>>
>> When it comes to popular riding lawn mowers made in the USA, consider
>> John Deere. The X304 has a 42-inch cutting swath. It's not a zero-turn
>> mower, but is stable on hills. It retails for about $3,600. The Z225 is
>> a zero-turn mower and also has a 42-inch cutting swath. The zero-turn
>> feature means you'll cut flat areas much faster. It retails for about
>> $3,000.
>>
>> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_John_Deere_made_in_the_USA
>>
>> Is John Deere made in the USA?
>>
>> Answer:
>> Which John Deere's? Tractors-yes, lawn mowers-yes, combines-yes, and
>> most equipment-yes. The only John Deeres built out of the U.S. that I
>> can think of are sold to foreign markets, most likely the same place
>> they are built.
>
> Reread what I wrote above. Go to an *authorized* John Deere dealer
> and price a machine. Go here and search for where to buy a John Deere
> mower in your zip code, no big box store will come up, only authorized
> dealers sell real John Deere machines:
> http://dealerlocator.deere.com/servlet/
>
> John Deere does licence use of their name/logo... you can actually buy
> a John Deere at Toys R Us:
> http://www.toysrus.com/family/index....oryId=12549351

I think what's been said is true, they buy some assemblies abroad, like
the Kawasaki motors, but build the machines here.

Licensing toys is not apples-apples.

On 6/29/2013 4:58 PM, casa bona wrote:
> I think what's been said is true, they buy some assemblies abroad, like
> the Kawasaki motors, but build the machines here.
>
> Licensing toys is not apples-apples.

Many years ago, for a short time, John Deere made snowmobiles (at the
Horicon plant) and they licensed some garment company to make John Deere
snowmobile suits.

http://tinyurl.com/paqw496

While I was working at a John Deere dealer, I found a whole crate of
these suits that were brand new... but at least 10 years old. They were
so faded and wrinkled that we couldn't sell them, so the owner gave them
to the Salvation Army mission.

The following winter, it was strange watching men line up for admission
to the soup kitchen.... many of them resplendent in their John Deer suits.

George L