gregz wrote:
> I just watched the whole thing. Well, they are a failing restaurant.
> About it. No one would kick me out of a restaurant without me doing
> lots of damage. Was a very nice looking place

I never actually got kicked out but I was told at a Pizza Hut that I'd have
to leave if I didn't stop dancing. Apparently they had no dance license.
But it was late at night and my friends and I were the only ones in there.

Another time we went to the Vogue in downtown Seattle and I'd been told to
dress appropriately. So I put the burgundy mousse in my hair, donned my
black lace gloves and clothing and jewelry that I didn't normally wear. My
friends were dressed similarly. The Thirteen Coins refused to allow us
entry at 2:00 a.m. Hmph! They are open 24 hours. I just think they
disliked our style of dress and the stench of clove cigarettes that we'd
picked up from the Vogue. Amazingly there was a deli across the street that
was open. They sold us some food to go.

On Thu, 16 May 2013 20:42:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 May 2013 14:56:32 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> One of my aunts had a store for a while. Didn't make her any money
> >> but gave her something to do. She was wealthy so didn't need any
> >> income that it might have generated.
> >>
> > She probably had a reason. In the city, you see lots of stores that
> > aren't doing much business but manage to stay open way beyond the time
> > normal people would have thrown in the towel. There are two reasons
> > for that, either they're a way to launder money or some old goat is
> > making work for his mistress and he's using it as a write off. Your
> > aunt's store was probably a way she supported her hobby and she could
> > travel under the guise of buying for the store. Everything she bought
> > was for sale so it was legal and she could write off all her expenses,
> > which included travel and rent.
>
> She said it gave her something to do. She made what she called "dinks".
> This was just an assortment of artsy craftsy things. It was mostly her
> stuff that she was trying to sell. She had a small back room in the shop
> and she'd sit back there and make things. Sadly they were the sort of
> things that people wanted to buy.
>
> I know that she wouldn't be doing money laundering.

I didn't say she did/

> She used to have a cabin and named it PTL.

Did you know what PIL meant?

> My uncle was in the oil business and did very well
> at it. So she never had to work.
>
I will absolutely guarantee people in those circumstances don't throw
money away and that her business sheltered their wealth in some way.
I don't expect you to know how or why. I'm just saying that you
should wake up and smell the coffee.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 16 May 2013 20:42:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Thu, 16 May 2013 14:56:32 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> One of my aunts had a store for a while. Didn't make her any money
>> >> but gave her something to do. She was wealthy so didn't need any
>> >> income that it might have generated.
>> >>
>> > She probably had a reason. In the city, you see lots of stores that
>> > aren't doing much business but manage to stay open way beyond the time
>> > normal people would have thrown in the towel. There are two reasons
>> > for that, either they're a way to launder money or some old goat is
>> > making work for his mistress and he's using it as a write off. Your
>> > aunt's store was probably a way she supported her hobby and she could
>> > travel under the guise of buying for the store. Everything she bought
>> > was for sale so it was legal and she could write off all her expenses,
>> > which included travel and rent.
>>
>> She said it gave her something to do. She made what she called "dinks".
>> This was just an assortment of artsy craftsy things. It was mostly her
>> stuff that she was trying to sell. She had a small back room in the shop
>> and she'd sit back there and make things. Sadly they were the sort of
>> things that people wanted to buy.
>>
>> I know that she wouldn't be doing money laundering.
>
> I didn't say she did/
>
>> She used to have a cabin and named it PTL.
>
> Did you know what PIL meant?

PTL. Yes. Praise the Lord! She didn't used to be the religous type but
she got that way at some point. To the extreme!
>
>> My uncle was in the oil business and did very well
>> at it. So she never had to work.
>>
> I will absolutely guarantee people in those circumstances don't throw
> money away and that her business sheltered their wealth in some way.
> I don't expect you to know how or why. I'm just saying that you
> should wake up and smell the coffee.

Could be. My dad did say that they would walk around with quite a lot of
money on their person so that they wouldn't have to declare it.

On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:00:00 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> I never actually got kicked out but I was told at a Pizza Hut that I'd have
> to leave if I didn't stop dancing. Apparently they had no dance license.
> But it was late at night and my friends and I were the only ones in there.

What? That's weird.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:00:00 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> I never actually got kicked out but I was told at a Pizza Hut that I'd
>> have
>> to leave if I didn't stop dancing. Apparently they had no dance license.
>> But it was late at night and my friends and I were the only ones in
>> there.
>

I wasn't even being wild either. One guy in our party asked me if I could
show him how to do some dance. I can't even remember which one now but it
was a ballroom dance. We were seated in the back corner, waiting for our
food so it's not like we were in anyone's way. It was a very simple dance
so we were only up for less than a minute.

On Thu, 16 May 2013 23:34:18 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:00:00 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
>
>> I never actually got kicked out but I was told at a Pizza Hut that I'd have
>> to leave if I didn't stop dancing. Apparently they had no dance license.
>> But it was late at night and my friends and I were the only ones in there.
>
>What? That's weird.

Weird, but true. I've heard of that in some places in bars that have
music. Separate license is needed for dancing. Local laws can be
strange.

On Thu, 16 May 2013 23:34:18 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:00:00 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
>
>> I never actually got kicked out but I was told at a Pizza Hut that I'd have
>> to leave if I didn't stop dancing. Apparently they had no dance license.
>> But it was late at night and my friends and I were the only ones in there.
>
>What? That's weird.

That someone was dancing in a pizza hut?
or that pizza hut didn't like it. . . .
or that no-one else was in there?<g>

Jim

On 2013-05-17, barbie gee > wrote:
> Some posts out there on the interwebs seem to indicate she was lying about
> the pastries being her own work.

Yeah. The extratv.com link gregz posted indicated they'd been accused
of "selling desserts from other restaurants". Another negative only
if they claimed to have made the desserts themselves, which the video
shows they (she) did.

nb

On 5/17/2013 1:47 AM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 16 May 2013, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/2013 6:02 PM, Nancy Young wrote:

>>> It struck me that it takes her forever to put out a plate of
>>> food, and those pastries all looked very time consuming to make.
>>> Also, her food didn't look attractive like someone accustomed to
>>> making pretty desserts. I would think some sense of aesthetics
>>> would be apparent.

>> I'll admit I'm not a baker. But that stuff looked like she'd have to
>> be up and baking at 3AM. Even if she only had to do it a couple of
>> days a week, she just didn't strike me as the type. Purely a
>> subjective opinion, of course.
>
> Some posts out there on the interwebs seem to indicate she was lying
> about the pastries being her own work.

Something doesn't add up for me with her and all those pastries.
I have trouble picturing her getting herself organized and focused
enough to do all that work. I mean, even if God gave her all that
ability and all. Heh.

And yet, when they take Gordon to see the pastry case, they beam
with pride. Look what I did! I don't know.

nancy

On 5/15/2013 6:23 PM, Andrew Tillinghast wrote:
> On May 12, 3:29 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> Watch it. The lady is a real nut case. The husband takes the tips
>>> and she fires people every week.
>>
>>> My guess: Now that this has hit the air, they will have a slight
>>> surge in business from curiosity seekers, then it will shut down.
>>
>> How long is it between filming the show
>> and airing it? I'd guess they might be
>> closed already.
>
> Still open. Read their facebook page. they are still screaming and
> crying!The comments are hilarious.
> https://www.facebook.com/amysbakingco?fref=ts
>
It now says on Facebook:

Other Side of Amy’s Baking Company Controversy in Scottsdale To Soon Be Told

SCOTTSDALE, AZ. MAY 15, 2013 -- Amy’s Baking Company will host a Grand
Re-Opening on Tuesday night, May 21, following unflattering portrayals
on national television.

Customers will be able to decide who is correct: a famous celebrity chef
or the marketplace that has supported the small, locally-owned business
for six years.

When re-opened, a portion of proceeds will benefit a charity organized
to bring awareness to cyber bullying.

Seating is limited. Reservations may be made by emailing <I snipped>

Diners will also have the opportunity to meet, and judge for themselves
the character of owners Amy and Samy Bouzaglo, who have devoted their
lives to and earn their living from their small restaurant. The
Bouzaglos have been married for 10 years, after Sammy emigrated from Israel.

The owners will likely be holding a press conference before the Grand
Re-Opening and answer falsehoods depicted on a reality television show,
including assertions that the restaurant confiscates tips from servers.

In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly five
times the standard hourly wage for servers.

Questions will also be answered about what happened to their Facebook page.

Amy’s Baking Company was recently featured on the hit PBS show “Check
Please” and has received A+ reports from CBS 5 for kitchen preparedness.

“We are very upset by what has taken place, apologize about the acrimony
that has ensued but now must fight back to save our business. We hope
and believe much good can result from what has transpired. We ask the
public to keep an open mind as we begin to tell our side of the story,”
Samy Bouzaglo said.

Jill

On 5/17/2013 9:06 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly five
> times the standard hourly wage for servers.

While that is true, when servers are paid the server rate, they keep
their tips. In a good restaurant, that can easily come to more than
$200 a night.

Fact is that these people are creeps.

George L

On 5/17/2013 10:18 AM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2013, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>> On May 12, 3:29 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>>>
>>> Still open. Read their facebook page. they are still screaming and
>>> crying!The comments are hilarious.
>>> https://www.facebook.com/amysbakingco?fref=ts
>>>
>> It now says on Facebook:
>>
>> Other Side of Amy?s Baking Company Controversy in Scottsdale To Soon
>> Be Told
>>
>> SCOTTSDALE, AZ. MAY 15, 2013 -- Amy?s Baking Company will host a Grand
>> Re-Opening on Tuesday night, May 21, following unflattering portrayals
>> on national television.
>>
>> Customers will be able to decide who is correct: a famous celebrity
>> chef or the marketplace that has supported the small, locally-owned
>> business for six years.
>>
>> When re-opened, a portion of proceeds will benefit a charity organized
>> to bring awareness to cyber bullying.
>>
(snip)
>> The owners will likely be holding a press conference before the Grand
>> Re-Opening and answer falsehoods depicted on a reality television
>> show, including assertions that the restaurant confiscates tips from
>> servers.
>>
>> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly
>> five times the standard hourly wage for servers.
>>
>
> This should be amusing!
>
Almost amusing enough to make me wish I was in Scottsdale. But not
really.

> No matter how they edited the footage, there is no way that some of
> their behavior is okay. The food? Who knows. The two of them need to
> let someone else manage the front of the house for awhile. Keeping tips
> is inexcusable, however.
>
I definitely don't believe what they claim they pay their servers.
(Maybe they will *now*, but...) Surely when Ramsay expressed disbelief
to the server about not getting to keep her tips she would have said,
"Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they don't.

Besides, customers don't know what the servers are being paid. Even if
they did, if they want to give them a little extra that's their
business. It doesn't belong in the owners pocket.

There's a petition on change.org initiated by people trying to get them
investigated by the Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division for the
charges of tip theft. It's pretty clear from the video I watched the
guy *admits* he keeps their tips.

Jill

On 5/17/2013 10:29 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 5/17/2013 9:06 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly five
>> times the standard hourly wage for servers.
>
> While that is true, when servers are paid the server rate, they keep
> their tips. In a good restaurant, that can easily come to more than
> $200 a night.
>
> Fact is that these people are creeps.
>
> George L

Please note, I was quoting something put on Facebook by their new
publicist. I don't care if they pay the servers $50 an hour, when
someone leaves a tip it goes to the person who served them, not to the
owner. And yes, they are creeps.

I'll be interested to see what happens at their "grand reopening".
Perhaps Amy will have learned how to cook a pizza by then. LOL

Jill

On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no longer
> there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian place.
> I just think that building is doomed.

There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.

Jill

On 2013-05-17 14:06:10 +0000, jmcquown said:

> On 5/15/2013 6:23 PM, Andrew Tillinghast wrote:
>> On May 12, 3:29 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> Watch it. The lady is a real nut case. The husband takes the tips
>>>> and she fires people every week.
>>>
>>>> My guess: Now that this has hit the air, they will have a slight
>>>> surge in business from curiosity seekers, then it will shut down.
>>>
>>> How long is it between filming the show
>>> and airing it? I'd guess they might be
>>> closed already.
>>
>> Still open. Read their facebook page. they are still screaming and
>> crying!The comments are hilarious.
>> https://www.facebook.com/amysbakingco?fref=ts
>>
> It now says on Facebook:
>
> Other Side of Amys Baking Company Controversy in Scottsdale To Soon Be Told
>
> SCOTTSDALE, AZ. MAY 15, 2013 -- Amys Baking Company will host a Grand
> Re-Opening on Tuesday night, May 21, following unflattering portrayals
> on national television.
>
> Customers will be able to decide who is correct: a famous celebrity
> chef or the marketplace that has supported the small, locally-owned
> business for six years.
>
> When re-opened, a portion of proceeds will benefit a charity organized
> to bring awareness to cyber bullying.
>
> Seating is limited. Reservations may be made by emailing <I snipped>
>
> Diners will also have the opportunity to meet, and judge for themselves
> the character of owners Amy and Samy Bouzaglo, who have devoted their
> lives to and earn their living from their small restaurant. The
> Bouzaglos have been married for 10 years, after Sammy emigrated from
> Israel.
>
> The owners will likely be holding a press conference before the Grand
> Re-Opening and answer falsehoods depicted on a reality television show,
> including assertions that the restaurant confiscates tips from servers.
>
> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly
> five times the standard hourly wage for servers.
>
> Questions will also be answered about what happened to their Facebook page.
>
> Amys Baking Company was recently featured on the hit PBS show €œCheck
> Please€� and has received A+ reports from CBS 5 for kitchen preparedness.
>
> €œWe are very upset by what has taken place, apologize about the
> acrimony that has ensued but now must fight back to save our business.
> We hope and believe much good can result from what has transpired. We
> ask the public to keep an open mind as we begin to tell our side of the
> story,€� Samy Bouzaglo said.
>
> Jill

I understand if this is successful they'll be doing it every Saturday night.

On 2013-05-17 14:29:16 +0000, George Leppla said:

> On 5/17/2013 9:06 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly five
>> times the standard hourly wage for servers.
>
> While that is true, when servers are paid the server rate, they keep
> their tips. In a good restaurant, that can easily come to more than
> $200 a night.

In the other 98%, probably not so much.

> Fact is that these people are creeps.

Inarguably.

On Fri, 17 May 2013 10:41:13 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> Besides, customers don't know what the servers are being paid. Even if
> they did, if they want to give them a little extra that's their
> business. It doesn't belong in the owners pocket.

Abso-frikkin-lootly!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:13:55 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no longer
> > there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian place.
> > I just think that building is doomed.
>
> There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
> year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
> main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
> could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.
>
Sometimes there's a problem with the building and there's a dispute
over who is responsible for fixing it.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Friday, May 17, 2013 10:41:13 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> There's a petition on change.org initiated by people trying to get them
>
> investigated by the Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division for the
>
> charges of tip theft. It's pretty clear from the video I watched the
>
> guy *admits* he keeps their tips.


Ha!!- they OUGHT to be investigated. Serves em right, the jerks. Their attitude annoyed me.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:13:55 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> > When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no
>> > longer
>> > there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian
>> > place.
>> > I just think that building is doomed.
>>
>> There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
>> year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
>> main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
>> could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.
>>
> Sometimes there's a problem with the building and there's a dispute
> over who is responsible for fixing it.
>


sometimes the landlord or his agent are not selective enough, and this draws
a steady stream of bad tenants.

On 5/17/2013 11:49 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:13:55 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no longer
>>> there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian place.
>>> I just think that building is doomed.
>>
>> There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
>> year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
>> main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
>> could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.
>>
> Sometimes there's a problem with the building and there's a dispute
> over who is responsible for fixing it.
>
I'm sure that's true. Yet every time I'm in that area there's a
different restaurant name on the building. If there's some legal
dispute about issues with the property wouldn't they have to disclose
that to whomever is leasing the space? It's been a different type of
restaurant each time. It's a Japanese restaurant (at the moment).

Jill

On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:59 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 5/17/2013 11:49 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:13:55 -0400, jmcquown >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>> When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no longer
> >>> there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian place.
> >>> I just think that building is doomed.
> >>
> >> There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
> >> year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
> >> main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
> >> could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.
> >>
> > Sometimes there's a problem with the building and there's a dispute
> > over who is responsible for fixing it.
> >
> I'm sure that's true. Yet every time I'm in that area there's a
> different restaurant name on the building. If there's some legal
> dispute about issues with the property wouldn't they have to disclose
> that to whomever is leasing the space? It's been a different type of
> restaurant each time. It's a Japanese restaurant (at the moment).
>
I honestly don't know what has to be disclosed when it comes to
renting a restaurant property. I know we had a fantastic restaurant
just a couple of blocks away from us that closed very suddenly after
being open for only a week or two. It turned out there was some sort
of a drainage problem in the kitchen area (I don't remember if city
inspectors were involved or not). It was a matter of who was
responsible. The landlord said the tenant was responsible and the
tenant said it was the landlord... that space had been empty for
years, and I'm unfamiliar with the previous history. In any case, the
tenant left due to the dispute. It remained empty for a few more
years and then there was a series of good, but not very long lasting
restaurants - which I will assume were due to the same issue. The
storefront has been empty for the better part of a year and I don't
expect anyone to move in any time soon. These buildings are usually
owned by someone off shore. I can speculate about why they don't cash
out or upgrade - even back when the market was hot, hot, hot - but
it's only conjecture.


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 2013-05-17, jmcquown > wrote:

> "Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they don't.

She looked pretty flustered on the show. Understandable, for a kid
her age amidst all that sturm/drang. On a reddit page, she claims she
was being paid $8 hr:

<http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1eegnm/former_waitress_katy_cipriano_from_amys_baking/>

Is it the real Katy? (shrug)

If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
staff actually paid. We may never know.

nb

On 17 May 2013 17:08:53 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2013-05-17, jmcquown > wrote:
>
> > "Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they don't.
>
> She looked pretty flustered on the show. Understandable, for a kid
> her age amidst all that sturm/drang. On a reddit page, she claims she
> was being paid $8 hr:
>
> <http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1eegnm/former_waitress_katy_cipriano_from_amys_baking/>
>
> Is it the real Katy? (shrug)
>
> If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
> anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
> under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
> pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
> someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
> not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
> happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
> staff actually paid. We may never know.
>
> nb

AFAIC, my tip is for the server and I would be LIVID if I heard it
went to the owner. The owner should put a service charge on each
meal, not expect customers to tip and then steal it from his waitstaff

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 2013-05-17 18:04:58 +0000, sf said:

> AFAIC, my tip is for the server and I would be LIVID if I heard it
> went to the owner. The owner should put a service charge on each
> meal, not expect customers to tip and then steal it from his waitstaff

Last year I had a waitress in Paris explain some complicated
calculation/process/scam by which the owner got the bulk of all tips.
Heard it again, in a different but just as convoluted process in NYC
two years before. In both cases they said that the process was
ubiquitous throughout both towns. I lost track of the particulars but I
seem to recall they were quite different in mechanism, but identical in
result: vastly diminished tips.

Battali got sued and lost over a similar issue recently:

http://tinyurl.com/6o7cacr

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:34:30 -0700, gtr > wrote:

> On 2013-05-17 18:04:58 +0000, sf said:
>
> > AFAIC, my tip is for the server and I would be LIVID if I heard it
> > went to the owner. The owner should put a service charge on each
> > meal, not expect customers to tip and then steal it from his waitstaff
>
> Last year I had a waitress in Paris explain some complicated
> calculation/process/scam by which the owner got the bulk of all tips.
> Heard it again, in a different but just as convoluted process in NYC
> two years before. In both cases they said that the process was
> ubiquitous throughout both towns. I lost track of the particulars but I
> seem to recall they were quite different in mechanism, but identical in
> result: vastly diminished tips.
>

What I have learned today is that I need to ask the server how much
they get to keep out of a mandatory service charge.

Here is what the IRS has to say:

Service charges. Do not write in your tip diary the amount of any
service charge that your employer adds to a customer's bill and then
pays to you and treats as wages. This is part of your wages, not a
tip. The following factors determine if you have a tip or service
charge:

The payment is made free from compulsion;

The customer has the right to determine the amount of payment;

The payment is not subject to negotiation or dictated by employer
policy; and

The customer generally has the right to determine who receives the
payment.



--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 5/17/2013 12:08 PM, notbob wrote:
> If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
> anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
> under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
> pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
> someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
> not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
> happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
> staff actually paid. We may never know.


Every restaurant I've worked in, servers get tips, "back of the house"
people get minimum wage or higher... no tips. I am 63 years old and
have never seen or heard of any restaurant where the manager kept the tips.

At that, when I was on the grill, some smart waitresses would tip me
well.... and their plates always seemed to get up faster than some of
the others, and maybe the portions were a little larger, etc.

In some Amish/Mennonite places in PA - they automatically add a tip to
every bill and split that among ALL the help, front and back of the
house. But there, all the help is being paid an hourly wage that is at
least minimum.... not the "server" minimum.

George L

On 5/17/2013 8:29 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 5/17/2013 9:06 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> In fact, wait staff is paid $8-$14 per hour, two and half to nearly five
>> times the standard hourly wage for servers.
>
> While that is true, when servers are paid the server rate, they keep
> their tips. In a good restaurant, that can easily come to more than
> $200 a night.
>
> Fact is that these people are creeps.
>
> George L



Absolutely, and I can't imagine anyone who has seen even a short clip of
their K.N. performance ever wanting to eat there again.

gloria p

On 5/17/2013 10:12 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:13:55 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/16/2013 6:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> When we first moved here, there was a Mexican restaurant. It's no
>>>> longer
>>>> there. Was two different Indian places after that and now an Italian
>>>> place.
>>>> I just think that building is doomed.
>>>
>>> There's a building like that in nearby Port Royal. Seems like every
>>> year it's a different restaurant. I can't figure out why; it's on the
>>> main thoroughfare with lots of traffic. Surely not every single owner
>>> could have been completely incompetent? It would appear so.
>>>
>> Sometimes there's a problem with the building and there's a dispute
>> over who is responsible for fixing it.
>>
>
>
> sometimes the landlord or his agent are not selective enough, and this draws
> a steady stream of bad tenants.
>

Or sometimes the landlord sees a little success as a cash cow and jacks
up the rent enough in the following year to cause financial failure.

gloria p

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/17/2013 1:47 AM, barbie gee wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 May 2013, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/16/2013 6:02 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>>> It struck me that it takes her forever to put out a plate of
>>>> food, and those pastries all looked very time consuming to make.
>>>> Also, her food didn't look attractive like someone accustomed to
>>>> making pretty desserts. I would think some sense of aesthetics
>>>> would be apparent.
>
>>> I'll admit I'm not a baker. But that stuff looked like she'd have to
>>> be up and baking at 3AM. Even if she only had to do it a couple of
>>> days a week, she just didn't strike me as the type. Purely a
>>> subjective opinion, of course.
>>
>> Some posts out there on the interwebs seem to indicate she was lying
>> about the pastries being her own work.
>
> Something doesn't add up for me with her and all those pastries.
> I have trouble picturing her getting herself organized and focused
> enough to do all that work. I mean, even if God gave her all that
> ability and all. Heh.
>
> And yet, when they take Gordon to see the pastry case, they beam
> with pride. Look what I did! I don't know.

It was beautiful!

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2013-05-17, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> "Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they
>> don't.
>
> She looked pretty flustered on the show. Understandable, for a kid
> her age amidst all that sturm/drang. On a reddit page, she claims she
> was being paid $8 hr:
>
> <http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1eegnm/former_waitress_katy_cipriano_from_amys_baking/>
>
> Is it the real Katy? (shrug)
>
> If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
> anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
> under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
> pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
> someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
> not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
> happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
> staff actually paid. We may never know.

Huh? Servers here usually get paid more than minimum wage PLUS tips!

On 17/05/2013 6:20 PM, gloria p wrote:

> Or sometimes the landlord sees a little success as a cash cow and jacks
> up the rent enough in the following year to cause financial failure.
>

That is exactly what happened in a small bakery in a small touristy
town near here. There had been a sort of general store that never did
well. Then it was a bakery and did not do well. A woman took it over,
started making better products, put put some tables and umbrellas to
make it look more inviting. Other people driving by saw the people
enjoying their coffee/ tea and snacks so they stopped. She started
getting regular. The landlord saw how well she was doing and jacked up
the rent. She closed. Pity.

On 5/17/2013 11:08 AM, notbob wrote:

>
> If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
> anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
> under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
> pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
> someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
> not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
> happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
> staff actually paid. We may never know.
>
> nb
>



I strongly disagree, NB. Regardless of what thy are being paid, prices
are set by the owner of the business to reflect operating costs+profit.
The server, not the owner, is providing the service to the customer
and tips are reflective of quality of service.

The fact that 100+ employees have quit or been fired in a year says
something about the ownership/management. Having watched some of the
video clips, I wouldn't work for either of them, much less BOTH. It
looked like a lot of creepy abuse, attention-seeking and power issues.

gloria p

On Fri, 17 May 2013 15:29:48 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 2013-05-17, jmcquown > wrote:
> >
> >> "Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they
> >> don't.
> >
> > She looked pretty flustered on the show. Understandable, for a kid
> > her age amidst all that sturm/drang. On a reddit page, she claims she
> > was being paid $8 hr:
> >
> > <http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1eegnm/former_waitress_katy_cipriano_from_amys_baking/>
> >
> > Is it the real Katy? (shrug)
> >
> > If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
> > anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
> > under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
> > pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
> > someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
> > not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
> > happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
> > staff actually paid. We may never know.
>
> Huh? Servers here usually get paid more than minimum wage PLUS tips!
>
Just another person who think servers are scum and don't deserve a
living wage.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 17/05/2013 6:20 PM, gloria p wrote:
>
>> Or sometimes the landlord sees a little success as a cash cow and jacks
>> up the rent enough in the following year to cause financial failure.
>>
>
> That is exactly what happened in a small bakery in a small touristy town
> near here. There had been a sort of general store that never did well.
> Then it was a bakery and did not do well. A woman took it over, started
> making better products, put put some tables and umbrellas to make it look
> more inviting. Other people driving by saw the people enjoying their
> coffee/ tea and snacks so they stopped. She started getting regular. The
> landlord saw how well she was doing and jacked up the rent. She closed.
> Pity.
>
>

the last story I heard along these lines was that the landlord gave a
restaurant a sweetheart deal for five years, and then wanted to raise the
rent to something closer to market rents. Everyone screamed that the
landlord was screwing the guy, doubling his rent, etc. were the rumors. Fact
is, he essentially handed the restaurant a pile of money in the form of low
rent for five years, and then the restaurant owner left. the landlord
really didn't get to recoup his investment on that deal.

On 17/05/2013 1:01 PM, sf wrote:

> I honestly don't know what has to be disclosed when it comes to
> renting a restaurant property. I know we had a fantastic restaurant
> just a couple of blocks away from us that closed very suddenly after
> being open for only a week or two. It turned out there was some sort
> of a drainage problem in the kitchen area (I don't remember if city
> inspectors were involved or not). It was a matter of who was
> responsible. The landlord said the tenant was responsible and the
> tenant said it was the landlord..


You're not giving us a lot of information here. A tenant usually rents a
building and that looks after the renovations that need to be done in
order to comply with local laws related to that sort of business. We
don't know what sort of arrangement the landlord and the tenant had. I
have seen old gas stations heavily renovated and converted to
restaurants, but I don't think that most rental agreements would require
the landlord to look after the conversions. The landlord is renting the
space and the building and I think that in most cases it is up to the
tenant to make it conform for their business

On 17/05/2013 6:45 PM, gloria p wrote:

>> If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
>> anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
>> under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
>> pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
>> someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
>> not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
>> happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
>> staff actually paid. We may never know.
>>
>> nb
>>
>
>
>
> I strongly disagree, NB. Regardless of what thy are being paid, prices
> are set by the owner of the business to reflect operating costs+profit.
> The server, not the owner, is providing the service to the customer
> and tips are reflective of quality of service.

It is difficult to say when minimum wages vary so much from place to
place. Minimum wage here in Ontario is $10.25/hr, $8.90 for people
serving liquor. I know the latter is a lot less in some US states.


>
> The fact that 100+ employees have quit or been fired in a year says
> something about the ownership/management. Having watched some of the
> video clips, I wouldn't work for either of them, much less BOTH. It
> looked like a lot of creepy abuse, attention-seeking and power issues.


Again... hard to say. My son managed a microbrewery restaurant for a few
years and he had a high staff turnover. Most of them were fired for
incompetence, failing to show up for shifts or for theft.

On 2013-05-17 20:29:33 +0000, George Leppla said:

> Every restaurant I've worked in, servers get tips, "back of the house"
> people get minimum wage or higher... no tips. I am 63 years old and
> have never seen or heard of any restaurant where the manager kept the
> tips.

I'm quite surprised by that by my experience in listening to service
personnel, as mentioned. On the other hand, it has never once occured
to me that this shtick was going on around my home turf, including LA.
But I'm guessing if NYC and Paris can get away with it, anyone can.

I'm going to start asking around myself, just to be sure.

> At that, when I was on the grill, some smart waitresses would tip me
> well.... and their plates always seemed to get up faster than some of
> the others, and maybe the portions were a little larger, etc.
>
> In some Amish/Mennonite places in PA - they automatically add a tip to
> every bill and split that among ALL the help, front and back of the
> house. But there, all the help is being paid an hourly wage that is at
> least minimum.... not the "server" minimum.

Note that the IRS rules (as mentioned upstream from SF) indicate this
"compulsory tip for communal" is considered wages; not tips.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 15:29:48 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "notbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On 2013-05-17, jmcquown > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Oh, it's okay. They're paying me plenty!" She didn't, because they
>> >> don't.
>> >
>> > She looked pretty flustered on the show. Understandable, for a kid
>> > her age amidst all that sturm/drang. On a reddit page, she claims she
>> > was being paid $8 hr:
>> >
>> > <http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1eegnm/former_waitress_katy_cipriano_from_amys_baking/>
>> >
>> > Is it the real Katy? (shrug)
>> >
>> > If she was being paid hourly at a rate above the min wage, I don't see
>> > anything wrong with not getting tips. Most ppl know waitstaff fall
>> > under draconian wage law exceptions that allow them to be paid a mere
>> > pittance of a real wage, knowing they can make it up in tips. But, if
>> > someone is making min wage, are they entitled to tips, also? I think
>> > not. I've worked in a resto kitchen for min wage and no tips and was
>> > happy to get it. The real question is, what, in fact, were the wait
>> > staff actually paid. We may never know.
>>
>> Huh? Servers here usually get paid more than minimum wage PLUS tips!
>>
> Just another person who think servers are scum and don't deserve a
> living wage.

Me? No! I think it is pathetic that in some states they can get away with
paying almost nothing. I have a friend in TX who works for a restaurant.
She prefers doing the catering but can't afford to do that because then they
only pay her a pittance and no tips whatever. But because she is good at
it, that's where they have her work.

On 17/05/2013 6:48 PM, Pico Rico wrote:

>>
>
> the last story I heard along these lines was that the landlord gave a
> restaurant a sweetheart deal for five years, and then wanted to raise the
> rent to something closer to market rents. Everyone screamed that the
> landlord was screwing the guy, doubling his rent, etc. were the rumors. Fact
> is, he essentially handed the restaurant a pile of money in the form of low
> rent for five years, and then the restaurant owner left. the landlord
> really didn't get to recoup his investment on that deal.
>

There are a lot of variables. It's hard to say what the market rate
would be for a restaurant in a location that had never survived.

I am reminded of a my friend<?> Cheap Bob, who was boasting about a deal
he got on a house in the middle of nowhere. He was proud of having paid
only $68,000 for a house worth $95,000. We tried to explain to him
that it had been on the market for 5 years and that if, after 5 years on
the market it was only worth $68,000, that is what is was worth.