Since we were recently talking about Southern food, and since I just
read through Hugh Acheson's book, I'm considering a Southern meal for my
birthday this year. It won't be a TRADITIONAL Southern feast, but one
which uses ingredients which are commonly available in the southeastern USA:


AMUSE-BOUCHE
okra caviar with preserved lemon

APPETIZER
grilled pimento-plus[1] cheese mini-sandwich with garden tomato slices

MAIN COURSE
roasted quail
zucchini crisp[2]
eggplant purée with charred leeks
purple beans

DRIFTING TOWARD DESSERT
fresh corn soup with vanilla bean, coconut milk, and spiny lobster

DESSERT
grape clafouti (maybe with peanut-butter ice cream, for the PB&J flavor)


The recipes for the soup and the clafouti are both from Acheson's book.

Bob

[1] Rather than using jarred pimientos, I'll be mixing the cheese and
mayo with candied celery and pickled red bell peppers.

[2] Finely-diced zucchini salted, drained, and cooked with bacon fat,
put into a casserole and baked with a topping made of cornflakes, crisp
bacon, and pecans.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> DRIFTING TOWARD DESSERT
> fresh corn soup with vanilla bean, coconut milk, and spiny lobster

That sounds really good - if it turns out well, please post a recipe.

-S-

On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:10:03 AM UTC-6, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Since we were recently talking about Southern food, and since I just
> read through Hugh Acheson's book, I'm considering a Southern meal for my
> birthday this year. It won't be a TRADITIONAL Southern feast, but one
> which uses ingredients which are commonly available in the southeastern USA:

I don't see much that would identify this as a Southern meal. The ingredients are readily availble throughout the entire country. Other than okra, what makes you think this is a southern style menu?

It looks good... but not southern.


George L

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:10:03 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

>Since we were recently talking about Southern food, and since I just
>read through Hugh Acheson's book, I'm considering a Southern meal for my
>birthday this year. It won't be a TRADITIONAL Southern feast, but one
>which uses ingredients which are commonly available in the southeastern USA:
>
>
>AMUSE-BOUCHE
>okra caviar with preserved lemon
>
>APPETIZER
>grilled pimento-plus[1] cheese mini-sandwich with garden tomato slices
>
>MAIN COURSE
>roasted quail
>zucchini crisp[2]
>eggplant purée with charred leeks
>purple beans
>
>DRIFTING TOWARD DESSERT
>fresh corn soup with vanilla bean, coconut milk, and spiny lobster
>
>DESSERT
>grape clafouti (maybe with peanut-butter ice cream, for the PB&J flavor)
>
>
>The recipes for the soup and the clafouti are both from Acheson's book.
>
>Bob
>
>[1] Rather than using jarred pimientos, I'll be mixing the cheese and
>mayo with candied celery and pickled red bell peppers.
>
>[2] Finely-diced zucchini salted, drained, and cooked with bacon fat,
>put into a casserole and baked with a topping made of cornflakes, crisp
>bacon, and pecans.


When is your birthday? Most of the vegetables listed are not fresh in
the South until the middle of the summer. Grapes ripen in late summer
early fall.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 2:05:50 PM UTC-6, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> George L wrote:

> >
> > It looks good... but not southern.
>
> You don't think pimento cheese is Southern?

I ate it as a child in New york in the 50's.


>You don't think quail is
> Southern?

Not really. Had quail lots of times in Wisconsin and Michigan. I thought of it as a more Northern bird.


>You don't think spiny lobster is Southern?

Yep... that is more a Gulf type of thing but lobster (spiny or Maine) is available pretty much anywhere.


> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like.

Hey... if it makes you happy to call this a Southern meal, knock your socks off. You can call it anything you like.

George L

On Jan 25, 12:05*pm, Bob Terwilliger >
wrote:
> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like..


semantics

it's food available in the South

it's not "southern" cooking.

"Bob Terwilliger" < wrote in message >>> AMUSE-BOUCHE
>>> okra caviar with preserved lemon
>>>
>>> APPETIZER
>>> grilled pimento-plus[1] cheese mini-sandwich with garden tomato slices
>>>
>>> MAIN COURSE
>>> roasted quail
>>> zucchini crisp[2]
>>> eggplant purée with charred leeks
>>> purple beans
>>>
>>> DRIFTING TOWARD DESSERT
>>> fresh corn soup with vanilla bean, coconut milk, and spiny lobster
>>>
>>> DESSERT
>>> grape clafouti (maybe with peanut-butter ice cream, for the PB&J flavor)

I thought you were just kidding us, Bob. No dish on the menu sounds like
Southern cooking to me. Eggplant purée sounds like something we'd give the
toddlers to finger-paint with, we think anything charred had stayed on the
stove too long, and purple beans? Naah. Purple hulled peas maybe. Good
stuff. There are some quail farms around but they're for the rich
touristers to come play with guns and pretend that they're Great White
Hunters. Polly

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> George L wrote:
>
>>> which uses ingredients which are commonly available in the southeastern USA:
>
>> It looks good... but not southern.
>
> You don't think pimento cheese is Southern?

Available in yankee territory where I grew up.

> You don't think quail is Southern?

They are commonly hunted from Canada on south and in the form of
different species in Europe as well.

> You don't think spiny lobster is Southern?

I learned of spiny lobster as also being called California crayfish. I
do not count California as "southern" meaning "south-eastern US".

Maybe you mean freshwater crayfish or crawdads? They are a southern
ingredient. In yankee territory where I grew up we were lucky to
harvest 5-6 of them in a couple of hours. Not enough to bother making a
dish of except for the fun of it.

> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like.

Sure but not what I tend to think of as southern cooking.

On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:38:57 PM UTC-6, ImStillMags wrote:

>
> semantics
>
> it's food available in the South
>
> it's not "southern" cooking.


Exactly!

George L

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:20:22 -0800 (PST), George L
> wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:38:57 PM UTC-6, ImStillMags wrote:
>
> >
> > semantics
> >
> > it's food available in the South
> >
> > it's not "southern" cooking.
>
>
> Exactly!
>
He called it Southern "food", not Southern "cooking".

--

Tell congress not to censor the web. Add your voice here.
https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

On Jan 25, 8:19*am, George L > wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:10:03 AM UTC-6, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > Since we were recently talking about Southern food, and since I just
> > read through Hugh Acheson's book, I'm considering a Southern meal for my
> > birthday this year. It won't be a TRADITIONAL Southern feast, but one
> > which uses ingredients which are commonly available in the southeastern USA:
>
> I don't see much that would identify this as a Southern meal. *The ingredients are readily availble throughout the entire country. Other than okra, what makes you think this is a southern style menu?
>
> It looks good... but not southern.
>

Where's the alligator? Where's the snapping turtle? Too late for a
Georgia peach? And the only pork product is bacon fat?

Scuppernong grapes are more Southern than are, say, Concords.

spamtrap wrote:

> Where's the alligator? Where's the snapping turtle? Too late for a
> Georgia peach? And the only pork product is bacon fat?

Peaches will be an option, but I think the menu already has plenty of
food. I'll be cooking alligator for Mardi Gras next month.

Bob

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:59:08 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> > You don't think quail is Southern?
>
> They are commonly hunted from Canada on south and in the form of
> different species in Europe as well.

I have *never* considered quail to be a quintessential Southern food.

--

Tell congress not to censor the web. Add your voice here.
https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

George L wrote:

>> You don't think pimento cheese is Southern?
>
> I ate it as a child in New york in the 50's.
>
>
>> You don't think quail is Southern?
>
> Not really. Had quail lots of times in Wisconsin and Michigan. I thought of it as a more Northern bird.
>
>
>> You don't think spiny lobster is Southern?
>
> Yep... that is more a Gulf type of thing but lobster (spiny or Maine) is available pretty much anywhere.
>
>
>> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
>> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like.
>
> Hey... if it makes you happy to call this a Southern meal, knock your socks off. You can call it anything you like.


I grew up on Florida's "Treasure Coast" in an era before it was overrun
by Yankee transplants. Local organizations would often hold fish fries
featuring the local bounty, including all manner of fish from the Indian
and St. Lucie rivers, hush puppies, and what was called "swamp cabbage"
(nowadays more commonly called "hearts of palm"). Tomatoes and eggplants
grew beautifully on commercial farms nearby. My house was near the edge
of a large stretch of wilderness, home to hundreds if not thousands of
quail. Our citrus trees bore prolific fruit; we had all the oranges and
grapefruit we wanted, and some of those now-hard-to-find knobby sour
oranges. I walked through a mango forest on the way to school, and
passed through meadows full of what we called huckleberries, though I
came to realize much later that they weren't true huckleberries at all.
(I still don't know what kind of berries they were.) Wild grapes grew
profusely, and we gathered them at will. We were able to grow a
sea-grape tree in our front yard, and a loquat tree in our side yard.

If you don't think that Southern cooks have been using those same
ingredients for CENTURIES, then you know absolutely nothing about
Southern cooking. The fact that you don't think of any of it as Southern
food just shows how narrow a category "Southern food" is in your mind.

Bob

Polly wrote:

> I thought you were just kidding us, Bob. No dish on the menu sounds like
> Southern cooking to me. Eggplant purée sounds like something we'd give
> the toddlers to finger-paint with, we think anything charred had stayed
> on the stove too long, and purple beans? Naah. Purple hulled peas maybe.
> Good stuff. There are some quail farms around but they're for the rich
> touristers to come play with guns and pretend that they're Great White
> Hunters. Polly

You don't have wild quail there? As I wrote in an earlier post, there
were LOTS of quail running wild around where I grew up.

It's odd to me to see the prevalence of people who think of things like
quail and seafood as expensive rarities, when those things can be had
free for the taking if you're willing to go hunting and fishing.

Bob

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:58:29 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

>Polly wrote:
>
>> I thought you were just kidding us, Bob. No dish on the menu sounds like
>> Southern cooking to me. Eggplant purée sounds like something we'd give
>> the toddlers to finger-paint with, we think anything charred had stayed
>> on the stove too long, and purple beans? Naah. Purple hulled peas maybe.
>> Good stuff. There are some quail farms around but they're for the rich
>> touristers to come play with guns and pretend that they're Great White
>> Hunters. Polly
>
>You don't have wild quail there? As I wrote in an earlier post, there
>were LOTS of quail running wild around where I grew up.
>
>It's odd to me to see the prevalence of people who think of things like
>quail and seafood as expensive rarities, when those things can be had
>free for the taking if you're willing to go hunting and fishing.
>
>Bob

Well, they may be free for the taking in season after paying for the
equipment and licensing.

Boron

On Jan 26, 6:54*pm, Bob Terwilliger >
wrote:
> George L wrote:
> >> You don't think pimento cheese is Southern?
>
> > I ate it as a child in New york in the 50's.
>
> >> You don't think quail is Southern?
>
> > Not really. Had quail lots of times in Wisconsin and Michigan. *I thought of it as a more Northern bird.
>
> >> You don't think spiny lobster is Southern?
>
> > Yep... that is more a Gulf type of thing but lobster (spiny or Maine) is available pretty much anywhere.
>
> >> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
> >> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like.
>
> > Hey... if it makes you happy to call this a Southern meal, knock your socks off. *You can call it anything you like.
>
> I grew up on Florida's "Treasure Coast" in an era before it was overrun
> by Yankee transplants. Local organizations would often hold fish fries
> featuring the local bounty, including all manner of fish from the Indian
> and St. Lucie rivers, hush puppies, and what was called "swamp cabbage"
> (nowadays more commonly called "hearts of palm"). Tomatoes and eggplants
> grew beautifully on commercial farms nearby. My house was near the edge
> of a large stretch of wilderness, home to hundreds if not thousands of
> quail. Our citrus trees bore prolific fruit; we had all the oranges and
> grapefruit we wanted, and some of those now-hard-to-find knobby sour
> oranges. I walked through a mango forest on the way to school, and
> passed through meadows full of what we called huckleberries, though I
> came to realize much later that they weren't true huckleberries at all.
> (I still don't know what kind of berries they were.) Wild grapes grew
> profusely, and we gathered them at will. We were able to grow a
> sea-grape tree in our front yard, and a loquat tree in our side yard.
>
> If you don't think that Southern cooks have been using those same
> ingredients for CENTURIES, then you know absolutely nothing about
> Southern cooking. The fact that you don't think of any of it as Southern
> food just shows how narrow a category "Southern food" is in your mind.
>
> Bob

Bob, that was a lovely remembrance of your Southern larder in
Florida. I always love hearing about the experiences of foodie type
folks, of when they were growing up.

I think there is not just one Southern larder..but many, depending on
where one grew up in the South. I must admit that Florida is rather
on the edge of the South, to my mind, but I know it is part of the
South, no matter what. I think of it rather a bit outside...with all
it's bounty which is very different that some other parts of the
South. For instance in VA,there wasn't readily available citrus, or
mangoes. I never heard of mangoes til much later in my life.
Although one of my favorite cookbook authors talks of them and other
southern Floridian foods in her book, Cross Creek Cookery. That was
Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings, who also wrote The Yearling. She talks
about making mango ice cream with the mangoes from their trees. She
talks about cooking wild ducks too.
..
I was just thinking, that if I were to plan such a dinner from the
memories of my Southern larder, that it would include different things
than yours, based on what I remember from my own growing up in
Richmond, VA. I think my associations are probably more what a lot of
folks think of as "southern" foods...such as country ham, hot breads
(especially biscuits), all sorts of things made with cornmeal. And
long cooked vegetables, especially greens and beans. Butterbeans.
Sweet potatoes. Hanover tomatoes. Black-eyed peas.

I know there are quite a few folks on this list who hail from the
South. It would be interesting what they think of when they think of
the Southern larder. I expect Boli might have some of the same
things in his Southern larder that I have in mine...as he is a fellow
Virginian. Others hail from what we call the Deep South..where other
things might be more common.

One thing that does seem to be a commonality, is the importance of
vegetables in the South. If one goes into a Southern diner, you will
often see a main listed and a whole long list of side dishes/
vegetables one can get. I see this all over the South...
And when I was growing up in VA, seasonality was a big factor. I
remember my mother waiting for the shad(and shad roe) in the
springtime...it was only available then when the shad were running.
And I don't think I heard of shad much outside of VA, until much later
in my life. Not sure how common it is or was in other parts of the
country or even in other parts of the South.

I expect that folks living in or near Louisiana might have other
things that they equate with the Southern larder... We tend to think
of Louisiana as a separate entity too, since so much of the food there
is Cajun/Creole. I think we tend to forget that it is also part of
the deep South. Same with eastern Texas... When I was there, I was
so surprised to find that in that part of Texas, foods are more often
what we would classify as Southern, rather than the Texan specialities
we have some to expect.

When you get into the Southern coastal states like the Carolinas, you
start seeing a lot more seafood and a lot more rice dishes....

I could go on and on, and I am sure you could as well. I think it is
all a part of the Southern larder, but based on where our experiences
are, maybe a greater or lesser part of it. I know the ingredients
in your experience of the Southern larder are very remote to me, and
not what I experienced...but they are part of the southern larder of
Florida.

Hmm..I wonder what the commonality is that goes through most of
Southern food, other than the importance of vegetables?

Christine

On Jan 26, 6:54*pm, Bob Terwilliger >
wrote:
> George L wrote:
> >> You don't think pimento cheese is Southern?
>
> > I ate it as a child in New york in the 50's.
>
> >> You don't think quail is Southern?
>
> > Not really. Had quail lots of times in Wisconsin and Michigan. *I thought of it as a more Northern bird.
>
> >> You don't think spiny lobster is Southern?
>
> > Yep... that is more a Gulf type of thing but lobster (spiny or Maine) is available pretty much anywhere.
>
> >> My point was that any foods which make use of the Southern larder can
> >> fit into the "Southern food" category. Call it "new Southern" if you like.
>
> > Hey... if it makes you happy to call this a Southern meal, knock your socks off. *You can call it anything you like.
>
> I grew up on Florida's "Treasure Coast" in an era before it was overrun
> by Yankee transplants. Local organizations would often hold fish fries
> featuring the local bounty, including all manner of fish from the Indian
> and St. Lucie rivers, hush puppies, and what was called "swamp cabbage"
> (nowadays more commonly called "hearts of palm"). Tomatoes and eggplants
> grew beautifully on commercial farms nearby. My house was near the edge
> of a large stretch of wilderness, home to hundreds if not thousands of
> quail. Our citrus trees bore prolific fruit; we had all the oranges and
> grapefruit we wanted, and some of those now-hard-to-find knobby sour
> oranges. I walked through a mango forest on the way to school, and
> passed through meadows full of what we called huckleberries, though I
> came to realize much later that they weren't true huckleberries at all.
> (I still don't know what kind of berries they were.) Wild grapes grew
> profusely, and we gathered them at will. We were able to grow a
> sea-grape tree in our front yard, and a loquat tree in our side yard.
>
> If you don't think that Southern cooks have been using those same
> ingredients for CENTURIES, then you know absolutely nothing about
> Southern cooking. The fact that you don't think of any of it as Southern
> food just shows how narrow a category "Southern food" is in your mind.
>
> Bob

Hmm..I thought I posted a reply...but maybe I didn't. Hope this
doesn't show up twice..

Bob, that was a lovely remembrance of your Southern larder in
Florida. I always love hearing about the experiences of foodie type
folks, of when they were growing up.

I think there is not just one Southern larder..but many, depending on
where one grew up in the South. I must admit that Florida is rather
on the edge of the South, to my mind, but I know it is part of the
South, no matter what. I think of it rather a bit outside...with all
it's bounty which is very different that some other parts of the
South. For instance in VA,there wasn't readily available citrus, or
mangoes. I never heard of mangoes til much later in my life.
Although one of my favorite cookbook authors talks of them and other
southern Floridian foods in her book, Cross Creek Cookery. That was
Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings, who also wrote The Yearling. She talks
about making mango ice cream with the mangoes from their trees. She
talks about cooking wild ducks too..

I was just thinking, that if I were to plan such a dinner from the
memories of my Southern larder, that it would include different things
than yours, based on what I remember from my own growing up in
Richmond, VA. I think my associations are probably more what a lot of
folks think of as "southern" foods...such as country ham, hot breads
(especially biscuits), all sorts of things made with cornmeal. And
long cooked vegetables, especially greens and beans. Butterbeans.
Sweet potatoes. Hanover tomatoes. Black-eyed peas. And pork in all
it's forms, including the fat.

I know there are quite a few folks on this list who hail from the
South. It would be interesting what they think of when they think of
the Southern larder. I expect Boli might have some of the same
things in his Southern larder that I have in mine...as he is a fellow
Virginian. Others hail from what we call the Deep South..where other
things might be more common.

One thing that does seem to be a commonality, is the importance of
vegetables in the South. If one goes into a Southern diner, you will
often see a main listed and a whole long list of side dishes/
vegetables one can get. I see this all over the South...

And when I was growing up in VA, seasonality was a big factor. I
remember my mother waiting for the shad(and shad roe) in the
springtime...it was only available then when the shad were running.
And I don't think I heard of shad much outside of VA, until much later
in my life. Not sure how common it is or was in other parts of the
country or even in other parts of the South.

I expect that folks living in or near Louisiana might have other
things that they equate with the Southern larder... We tend to think
of Louisiana as a separate entity too, since so much of the food there
is Cajun/Creole. I think we tend to forget that it is also part of
the deep South. Same with eastern Texas... When I was there, I was
so surprised to find that in that part of Texas, foods are more often
what we would classify as Southern, rather than the Texan specialities
we have some to expect.

When you get into the Southern coastal states like the Carolinas, you
start seeing a lot more seafood and a lot more rice dishes....

I could go on and on, and I am sure you could as well. I think it is
all a part of the Southern larder, but based on where our experiences
are, maybe a greater or lesser part of it. I know the ingredients
in your experience of the Southern larder are very remote to me, and
not what I experienced...but they are part of the southern larder of
Florida.

Hmm..I wonder what the commonality is that goes through most of
Southern food, other than the importance of vegetables?

Christine

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:26:32 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:


>>
>>It's odd to me to see the prevalence of people who think of things like
>>quail and seafood as expensive rarities, when those things can be had
>>free for the taking if you're willing to go hunting and fishing.
>>
>>Bob
>
>Well, they may be free for the taking in season after paying for the
>equipment and licensing.
>
>Boron

I know a guy that bragged about all the lobster he ate for "free". He
bought a used boat and equipment, traps, etc for about $20,000. Not
to mention fuel cost.