I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
this pot I made with my coffee slicer.


John Kuthe...

On Nov 4, 6:32*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> this pot I made with my coffee slicer.

This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:06:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins >
wrote:

>On Nov 4, 6:32*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>> I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
>> tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
>> use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
>> ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
>> this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
>This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?

kuthe penned a culinary book with 374 blank pages. It's all there.

Lou

On Nov 4, 11:06*pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
> On Nov 4, 6:32*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?

Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.

The problem with my low cost coffee grinder is that it does not have
reduction gears to slow the grinding surfaces like irt should. I know
this because when the bean hopper is close to empty after grinding,
the motor winds up to close the RPMs of my coffee slicer! I'll bet
they use the same or similar electric motor for both! :-( But that's
all I get for a low cost coffee grinder like this:

http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....e-grinder.aspx

Gears are expensive, and would price a grinder far above the $29.99 I
paid for this. But it's still better than a slicer, IMHO.

John Kuthe...

On Nov 4, 12:59*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Nov 4, 11:06*pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 4, 6:32*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> > This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
>
> Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
> don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
> burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
> slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
> a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.
>
> The problem with my low cost coffee grinder is that it does not have
> reduction gears to slow the grinding surfaces like irt should. I know
> this because when the bean hopper is close to empty after grinding,
> the motor winds up to close the RPMs of my coffee slicer! I'll bet
> they use the same or similar electric motor for both! :-( But that's
> all I get for a low cost coffee grinder like this:
>
> http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....coffee-grinder...
>
> Gears are expensive, and would price a grinder far above the $29.99 I
> paid for this. But it's still better than a slicer, IMHO.

Ah! Terminology! what you call a mill, I call a burr mill. What you
call a slicer is also sold as a spice mill. I call it a whizzer for
lack of a better name. I agree, it is inferior. It gives a wide range
of particle sizes instead of a uniform grind. On the other hand,
pounded dark-roasted coffee beans powder well. You can hear the
mortars going in the evening in Bedouin villages when the men sit
outside their front doors with their lignum vitae mortars and long two-
handed pestles. It has the sound and rhythm of African drums.
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-2256...nd-pestle.html
I crush the corns in a mortar when I want the most aromatic black
pepper, but the extra aroma doesn't last long. Coffee behaves much the
same way.

I use an old Braun burr mill that I was given because it didn't work.
It too has no gears. If it did. I wouldn't have been able to repair
it.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can
get.

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
>I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
>
> John Kuthe...

What kind of grinder are you talking about? Is it a flat burr that faces
upward, as in the Cuisinart and other similar grinders, or is it a conical
burr grinder, like the Kitchenaid Pro grinder?

Kent

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
> On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?

Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.

The problem with my low cost coffee grinder is that it does not have
reduction gears to slow the grinding surfaces like irt should. I know
this because when the bean hopper is close to empty after grinding,
the motor winds up to close the RPMs of my coffee slicer! I'll bet
they use the same or similar electric motor for both! :-( But that's
all I get for a low cost coffee grinder like this:

http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....e-grinder.aspx

Gears are expensive, and would price a grinder far above the $29.99 I
paid for this. But it's still better than a slicer, IMHO.

John Kuthe...

The flat burr grinder is better than the whirling blade grinder. The problem
is that the burrs wear out. I've gone through two such grinders. I think the
burr for all of that type of grinder is made at the same factory in China,
so it doesn't matter what brand you have.

I have a Kitchenaid Pro Line conical burr grinder and I'm very satisfied
with it. I think the conical burr grinder is what the coffee houses use.
http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-Lin...0431758&sr=8-1

Kent

On Nov 5, 1:22*am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> What kind of grinder are you talking about? *Is it a flat burr that faces
> upward, as in the Cuisinart and other similar grinders, or is it a conical
> burr grinder, like the Kitchenaid Pro grinder?
>
> Kent

Flat burr, 2 piece. One rotates and the other does not.

John Kuthe...

On Nov 5, 1:39*am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> > This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
>
> Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
> don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
> burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
> slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
> a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.
>
> The problem with my low cost coffee grinder is that it does not have
> reduction gears to slow the grinding surfaces like irt should. I know
> this because when the bean hopper is close to empty after grinding,
> the motor winds up to close the RPMs of my coffee slicer! I'll bet
> they use the same or similar electric motor for both! :-( But that's
> all I get for a low cost coffee grinder like this:
>
> http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....coffee-grinder...
>
> Gears are expensive, and would price a grinder far above the $29.99 I
> paid for this. But it's still better than a slicer, IMHO.
>
> John Kuthe...
>
> The flat burr grinder is better than the whirling blade grinder. The problem
> is that the burrs wear out. I've gone through two such grinders. I think the
> burr for all of that type of grinder is made at the same factory in China,
> so it doesn't matter what brand you have.
>
> I have a Kitchenaid Pro Line conical burr grinder and I'm very satisfied
> with it. I think the conical burr grinder is what the coffee houses use.http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-Lin.../dp/B003AM7KIK...
>
> Kent

Yep! list $249.99 and Amazon discount price $161.13. A HECK of a lot
more than my $30 POS Black and Decker grinder. And I'll met you are
correct, one Chinese factory churning out a zillion cheap non-durable
flat grinding burrs, I'd bet.

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 5, 1:39 am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> > This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
>
> Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
> don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
> burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
> slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
> a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.
>
> The problem with my low cost coffee grinder is that it does not have
> reduction gears to slow the grinding surfaces like irt should. I know
> this because when the bean hopper is close to empty after grinding,
> the motor winds up to close the RPMs of my coffee slicer! I'll bet
> they use the same or similar electric motor for both! :-( But that's
> all I get for a low cost coffee grinder like this:
>
> http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....coffee-grinder...
>
> Gears are expensive, and would price a grinder far above the $29.99 I
> paid for this. But it's still better than a slicer, IMHO.
>
> John Kuthe...
>
> The flat burr grinder is better than the whirling blade grinder. The
> problem
> is that the burrs wear out. I've gone through two such grinders. I think
> the
> burr for all of that type of grinder is made at the same factory in China,
> so it doesn't matter what brand you have.
>
> I have a Kitchenaid Pro Line conical burr grinder and I'm very satisfied
> with it. I think the conical burr grinder is what the coffee houses
> use.http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-Lin.../dp/B003AM7KIK...
>
> Kent

Yep! list $249.99 and Amazon discount price $161.13. A HECK of a lot
more than my $30 POS Black and Decker grinder. And I'll met you are
correct, one Chinese factory churning out a zillion cheap non-durable
flat grinding burrs, I'd bet.

John Kuthe...

I got mine at Costco for under $100. As you probably know Costco has
intermittent deals like this. Another option would be the Capresso at $90.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0000AR7SY

Kent

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:

>Ah! Terminology! what you call a mill, I call a burr mill. What you
>call a slicer is also sold as a spice mill. I call it a whizzer for
>lack of a better name. ....

The Wikipedia article on "Coffee preparation" is pretty accurate and
well-written.

-- Larry

Lou Decruss wrote:
>
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:06:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins >
> wrote:
> >
> >This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
>
> kuthe penned a culinary book with 374 blank pages. It's all there.

Read the review first.

http://xkcd.com/971/

Kent > wrote:

>"John Kuthe" > wrote in message

>On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:

>> On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:

>> > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
>> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
>> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
>> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
>> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.

>> This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?

>Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
>don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
>burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
>slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
>a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.

The problem is one of terminology. Both a burr grinder and a whirl
grinder can be called a "grinder". Neither is normally called
a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
to whirl grinders.

It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
"burr grinder".


Steve

On Nov 5, 4:26*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Kent > wrote:
> >"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> >On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
> >> On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> >> > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> >> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> >> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> >> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> >> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
> >> This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
> >Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
> >don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
> >burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
> >slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
> >a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.
>
> The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
> grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
> a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
> to whirl grinders.
>
> It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
> "burr grinder".
>
> Steve

By the people who seek to sell them to you, yes. But maybe we, the
consumers, need to lay bare their lies and call a spade a spade. A
"slicer" or "high speed electric slicer" is a more accurate term for
it's action.

Like whenever I see the corporate specious attempt at concealing the
out of fashion word "fried" in the popular and common chicken place
"KFC" I say 'Kentucky FRIED Chicken", just to undue their deceit.

John Kuthe...

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:48 +0000 (UTC), (Steve Pope)
wrote:

>The problem is one of terminology. Both a burr grinder and a whirl
>grinder can be called a "grinder". Neither is normally called
>a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
>to whirl grinders.
>
>It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
>"burr grinder".

Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.

A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.

However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)

-- Larry

On 11/5/2011 11:12 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:48 +0000 (UTC), (Steve Pope)
> wrote:
>
>> The problem is one of terminology. Both a burr grinder and a whirl
>> grinder can be called a "grinder". Neither is normally called
>> a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
>> to whirl grinders.
>>
>> It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
>> "burr grinder".
>
> Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
> or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.
>
> A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
> improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.
>
> However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)
>
> -- Larry
I've been "grinding" coffee to my satisfaction using blade machines for
about 40 years. My first one was made by the French company Peugeot. I
once tried a true mill but it jammed up. That could have been my own
fault for not cleaning it out but there's a limit to how much
maintenance I am willing to do on a coffee grinder.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Nov 5, 10:21*pm, James Silverton >
wrote:
> On 11/5/2011 11:12 AM, wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:48 +0000 (UTC), (Steve Pope)
> > wrote:
>
> >> The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
> >> grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
> >> a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
> >> to whirl grinders.
>
> >> It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
> >> "burr grinder".
>
> > Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
> > or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.
>
> > A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
> > improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.
>
> > However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)
>
> > -- Larry
>
> I've been "grinding" coffee to my satisfaction using blade machines for
> about 40 years. My first one was made by the French company Peugeot. I
> once tried a true mill but it jammed up. That could have been my own
> fault for not cleaning it out but there's a limit to how much
> maintenance I am willing to do on a coffee grinder.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton, Potomac
>
> I'm *not*

I've been using a coffee slicer for years too, and have been satisfied
although I always knew there was a better way.

And now I think I will go GRIND a batch for a fresh, rich delicious
pot! I'm gonna wash up my old coffee slicer and use it to finely chop
almonds for an almond paste I make for one of my Christmas Candies
(the only other use for my coffee slicer I've ever found!)

John Kuthe...

On Nov 4, 9:31*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 4:26*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Kent > wrote:
> > >"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> > >On Nov 4, 11:06 pm, Jerinderry Avins > wrote:
> > >> On Nov 4, 6:32 am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> > >> > I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > >> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > >> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > >> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > >> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
> > >> This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
> > >Look at the slicing blades of any high speed "coffee grinder". They
> > >don't grind coffee beans, they slice them at high speeds. Unlike a
> > >burr grinder, which crushes and grinds the beans, and in crushing them
> > >slightly helps extract the coffee oils from the beans much better than
> > >a slicer does, resulting in better flavored coffee.
>
> > The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
> > grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
> > a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
> > to whirl grinders.
>
> > It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
> > "burr grinder".
>
> > Steve
>
> By the people who seek to sell them to you, yes. But maybe we, the
> consumers, need to lay bare their lies and call a spade a spade. A
> "slicer" or "high speed electric slicer" is a more accurate term for
> it's action.
>
> Like whenever I see the corporate specious attempt at concealing the
> out of fashion word "fried" in the popular and common chicken place
> "KFC" I say 'Kentucky FRIED Chicken", just to undue their deceit.
>
> John Kuthe...

A mill is any structure or machine for making small pieces from larger
ones. (The windmill is an exception. It was more often used to pump
water than to grind grain. The name came from the similarity of the
rest of the structure.) Even heavy-duty machines used to break up
scrap metal pieces by whacking them are called mills. You could grind
a lot of coffee in this :http://freedomequipment.com/vmchk/Pelleting-
Machinery/Hammermills/R10495-Reconditioned-Sprout/Waldron-3812-100HP-
Hammermill.html. Coal-powered power plants use ball mills to pulverize
coal before feeding it to the furnace. A ball mill is the usual tool
for making gunpowder. (In a powder mill, of course, made with material
from a lumber mill.)

When we lost power for a few days during the last hurricane, I used a
hand-cranked burr mill that one is expected to hold between one's
knees. (I used a carpentry vise.)
http://cameras.abesofmaine.com/thumb...3196.jpg&s=300
When I was first married, in the '50s, we used a hand-cranked burr
mill that screwed to the wall. http://tinyurl.com/3p4acy8 There are no
gears in either of those.

What ingredient is being hidden when Coca Cola is called Coke? Surely
not the cocaine that is long since gone!

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:24:19 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:06:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >This is the first I hear about slicing coffee. Where can I learn more?
>>
>> kuthe penned a culinary book with 374 blank pages. It's all there.
>
>Read the review first.
>
>http://xkcd.com/971/

LOL. Yep.

On Nov 5, 11:12*am, wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:48 +0000 (UTC), (Steve Pope)
> wrote:
>
> >The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
> >grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
> >a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
> >to whirl grinders.
>
> >It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
> >"burr grinder".
>
> Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
> or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.
>
> A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
> improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.
>
> However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)

Look up "mill" in your dictionary. Mine gives as the first definition,
"A mechanical devise for grinding grain or food." The second
definition is "A machine for grinding or pulverizing any solid
substance." There are many more definitions, but they are less
relevant.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:12:54 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:

>A mill is any structure or machine for making small pieces from larger
>ones.....

Ah, I see. So the radial arm saw, chisel, hack saw, wire cutters, scissors,
mortar and pestle, food processor, *really big* hammers, and my grandson's
grubby little hands are all really mills. 8

-- Larry

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:

>> Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
>> or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.
>>
>> A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
>> improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.
>>
>> However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)
>
>Look up "mill" in your dictionary. Mine gives as the first definition,
>"A mechanical devise for grinding grain or food." The second
>definition is "A machine for grinding or pulverizing any solid
>substance."

That's meaningless without taking the logical next step and looking up "grind."

The Concise OED says:

"1 [with object] reduce (something) to small particles or powder by crushing
it:...
[no object] (of a mill or machine) work with a crushing action:the old mill was
grinding again...."

Care to try again?

-- Larry

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 5, 1:22 am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> What kind of grinder are you talking about? Is it a flat burr that faces
> upward, as in the Cuisinart and other similar grinders, or is it a conical
> burr grinder, like the Kitchenaid Pro grinder?
>
> Kent

Flat burr, 2 piece. One rotates and the other does not.

John Kuthe...
>
>
That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.

What kind of beans do you grind? Where do you buy beanss at the best price.
Have you purchased 3lb bags at Costco?

Kent

On Nov 5, 1:11*pm, wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:12:54 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:
> >A mill is any structure or machine for making small pieces from larger
> >ones.....
>
> Ah, I see. So the radial arm saw, chisel, hack saw, wire cutters, scissors,
> mortar and pestle, food processor, *really big* hammers, and my grandson's
> grubby little hands are all really mills. *8

They fit the definition. You can buy saws and other cutters for a
milling machine. A mortar and pestle is an unmechanized form of
grinding/pounding mill. I still have most of my milling teeth. They're
called "molars", from the same root.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On 11/5/2011 1:48 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
> On Nov 5, 1:11 pm, wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:12:54 -0700 (PDT), Jerry > wrote:
>>> A mill is any structure or machine for making small pieces from larger
>>> ones.....
>>
>> Ah, I see. So the radial arm saw, chisel, hack saw, wire cutters, scissors,
>> mortar and pestle, food processor, *really big* hammers, and my grandson's
>> grubby little hands are all really mills. 8
>
> They fit the definition. You can buy saws and other cutters for a
> milling machine. A mortar and pestle is an unmechanized form of
> grinding/pounding mill. I still have most of my milling teeth. They're
> called "molars", from the same root.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

I went some time with a missing molar and regretted it later as its
absence allowed the adjacent teeth to drift inwards. I have no missing
teeth now tho' some are implants.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Nov 5, 1:17*pm, wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:
> >> Well, technically, only a burr-type (or commercial roller-type) machine grinds
> >> or mills coffee beans. Grinding or milling processes imply crushing the beans.
>
> >> A blade-type "grinder" does not crush anything; it chops the beans. So it is
> >> improper to refer to a blade machine as either a grinder or a mill.
>
> >> However, as usual in our society, marketing trumps fact or logic. 8)
>
> >Look up "mill" in your dictionary. Mine gives as the first definition,
> >"A mechanical devise for grinding grain or food." The second
> >definition is "A machine for grinding or pulverizing any solid
> >substance."
>
> That's meaningless without taking the logical next step and *looking up "grind."
>
> *The Concise OED says:
>
> "1 [with object] reduce (something) to small particles or powder by crushing
> it:...
> [no object] (of a mill or machine) work with a crushing action:the old mill was
> grinding again...."
>
> Care to try again?

No. Grinding is ordinarily done by abrasion, as with a grindstone, or
its counterpart, a metal file. Compare the working faces of a burr
mill to files. The Century dictionary has the more complete definition
"To break and reduce to fine particles by pounding, crushing, or
rubbing, as in a mill or in a mortar, or with the teeth ..." The OED
gives senses of reducing to powder by crushing, and of wearing away by
friction. It appears that the COED is a bit too concise.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:

>> Care to try again?
>
>No. Grinding is ordinarily done by abrasion, as with a grindstone, or
>its counterpart, a metal file. Compare the working faces of a burr
>mill to files. The Century dictionary has the more complete definition
>"To break and reduce to fine particles by pounding, crushing, or
>rubbing, as in a mill or in a mortar, or with the teeth ..." The OED
>gives senses of reducing to powder by crushing, and of wearing away by
>friction. It appears that the COED is a bit too concise.

Ummm, you should. You just defeated your own contention that whirly-blades are
properly referred to as mills or grinders, which is what we were debating.

-- Larry

On Nov 6, 12:47*am, "Kent" > wrote:
....
> That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
> replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.

So be it, for $30, what could I expect? :-)


>
> What kind of beans do you grind?

Sumatran.


> Where do you buy beanss at the best price.

Starr's:

http://www.starrs1.com


> Have you purchased 3lb bags at Costco?

No, I refuse to patronize Big Box MalWart-esque stores.


John Kuthe...

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:47:23 -0700, "Kent" >
wrote:

>
>"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
>On Nov 5, 1:22 am, "Kent" > wrote:
>> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> >I just made a pot of Sumatran with my old coffee slicer, and I can
>> > tell the difference! Dunno how much is the increased volume of beans I
>> > use in my grinder per pot vs. the grinding method, but a cup from a
>> > ground pot is definitely better (richer, stronger, whatever) than from
>> > this pot I made with my coffee slicer.
>>
>> > John Kuthe...
>>
>> What kind of grinder are you talking about? Is it a flat burr that faces
>> upward, as in the Cuisinart and other similar grinders, or is it a conical
>> burr grinder, like the Kitchenaid Pro grinder?
>>
>> Kent
>
>Flat burr, 2 piece. One rotates and the other does not.
>
>John Kuthe...
>>
>>
>That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
>replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.

How do you manage to make this shit up? I've got two Delonghi
grinders I bought almost 10 years ago. The one I kept at the weekend
place doesn't have the use on it but they're both just fine.

Lou

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:47:23 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:

>Flat burr, 2 piece. One rotates and the other does not.
>
>That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
>replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.

Do you know the make and model of his specific grinder?

Lots of flat burrs can be resharpened (up to three times) or replaced, including
those in my Ditting. Ditting's estimate is 15,000 pounds of coffee ground before
resharpening or replacement is needed (somewhat less if you're grinding
extremely fine).

-- Larry

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:46:06 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> wrote:

>On Nov 6, 12:47*am, "Kent" > wrote:
>...
>> That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
>> replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.
>
>So be it, for $30, what could I expect? :-)
>
>
>>
>> What kind of beans do you grind?
>
>Sumatran.
>
>
>> Where do you buy beanss at the best price.
>
>Starr's:
>
>http://www.starrs1.com
>
>
>> Have you purchased 3lb bags at Costco?
>
>No, I refuse to patronize Big Box MalWart-esque stores.

Comparing walmart to Costco proves ignorance. I'm sure you've never
been to one.

Lou

On Nov 6, 1:53*am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
....
> Comparing walmart to Costco proves ignorance. *I'm sure you've never
> been to one.
>
> Lou

Blissfully ignorant too! :-)

John Kuthe...

On 05/11/2011 2:48 PM, Lou Decruss wrote:
..
>>>
>>>
>> That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
>> replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.
>
> How do you manage to make this shit up? I've got two Delonghi
> grinders I bought almost 10 years ago. The one I kept at the weekend
> place doesn't have the use on it but they're both just fine.
>
>

A part of our burr grinder went missing. My wife said it was part of
our old grinder and it got tossed in the garbage. It was not missed for
a while because we usually make Boda, but when we got a new drip machine
and started needed fine coffee and weren't getting it fine I figured out
the problem. I ordered the part online, $6 plus shipping.

On Nov 6, 12:47*am, "Kent" > wrote:
....
> That's the kind of so called "burr" that wears out. The burr cannot be
> replaced. It'll be good for about two years with daily use.

I just looked at the grinding surfaces of this:

http://www.blackanddeckerappliances....e-grinder.aspx

which is the coffee grinder I bought, and the flat grinding burrs are
indeed replaceable, both the fixed and moving one. They are held in
with small flathead Phillips screws. The top fixed burr is held by a
removable part, removable for cleaning and burr replacement.

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe > wrote:

>On Nov 5, 4:26*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
>> grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
>> a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
>> to whirl grinders.

>> It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
>> "burr grinder".

>By the people who seek to sell them to you, yes. But maybe we, the
>consumers, need to lay bare their lies and call a spade a spade. A
>"slicer" or "high speed electric slicer" is a more accurate term for
>it's action.

Well, to me the word "slice" connotes a thin uniform sheet, and a
"slicer" produces slices, and that's not what a whirl grinder does.

So I prefer either whirl grinder, or blade grinder.

Steve

On Nov 5, 2:40*pm, wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins > wrote:
> >> Care to try again?
>
> >No. Grinding is ordinarily done by abrasion, as with a grindstone, or
> >its counterpart, a metal file. Compare the working faces of a burr
> >mill to files. The Century dictionary has the more complete definition
> >"To break and reduce to fine particles by pounding, crushing, or
> >rubbing, as in a mill or in a mortar, or with the teeth ..." The OED
> >gives senses of reducing to powder by crushing, and of wearing away by
> >friction. It appears that the COED is a bit too concise.
>
> Ummm, you should. You just defeated your own contention that whirly-blades are
> properly referred to as *mills or grinders, which is what we were debating.

No. They function like hammer mills, whacking the beans and breaking
them up. The smaller pieces, having less inertia, just get out of the
way instead of breaking, so big pieces break down quickly, while small
pieces aren't as much affected. If ir were random cutting, the result
would be much less even. Sharpening the blades has practically no
effect on the result. Try it.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Nov 4, 2:39*pm, "Kent" > wrote:


...

> The flat burr grinder is better than the whirling blade grinder. The problem
> is that the burrs wear out. I've gone through two such grinders. I think the
> burr for all of that type of grinder is made at the same factory in China,
> so it doesn't matter what brand you have.

Something is amiss. Tthe rate of wear on steel burrs when crushing
coffee beans is miniscule, and the gap between the cone and the cup is
adjustable*. The adjustment is intended to allow changing coarseness,
but it can take up wear as well.

__________________________
* Maybe that's the problem for you. If they're adjusted too close or
if there is play in the adjustment, they may be grinding each other.
My electric burr mill is about 20 years old with original parts. It
shows no sign of burr wear.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Nov 6, 3:53*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> >On Nov 5, 4:26*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> >> The problem is one of terminology. *Both a burr grinder and a whirl
> >> grinder can be called a "grinder". *Neither is normally called
> >> a "slicer", but in context it's clear this is intended to refer
> >> to whirl grinders.
> >> It can be unclear to say "grinder" when you're hoping the reader will infer
> >> "burr grinder".
> >By the people who seek to sell them to you, yes. But maybe we, the
> >consumers, need to lay bare their lies and call a spade a spade. A
> >"slicer" or "high speed electric slicer" is a more accurate term for
> >it's action.
>
> Well, to me the word "slice" connotes a thin uniform sheet, and a
> "slicer" produces slices, and that's not what a whirl grinder does.
>
> So I prefer either whirl grinder, or blade grinder.
>
> Steve

"[T]o me" is the operative qualifier here. And to ME, slicing the
coffee beans is exactly what a high speed bladed coffee mill does, it
slices the beans. You are thinking of the word "slice" as a noun, not
a verb. A "whirl grinder" as you mis-name them does indeed slice
coffee beans, into random thickness slices, depending on how each bean
or bean fragment presents to the blade as it slices. Hence the non-
uniform "grind" they produce. But little if any crushing of the bean
occurs. Perhaps through high speed impact of the blade with the bean,
if at all. (The blades are not that sharp.) Hence the "meat of the
bean" is not compressed much if at all, which is what extracts the
coffee oils as a grinder does.

And what a delicious cup of freshly GROUND Sumatran I am enjoying
right now! :-)


John Kuthe...