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Default The only decent microwaves are....

Kenmore.

The microwave died last week and first I tried a Sunbeam. I didn't
need anything fancy since I don't use it often. .9 cuft, 1000Watts
for $60.

It just burned a hole right through the center of the food. It
apparently just a had a single "beam" that went right down into the
center of turntable. Even at 60% power it did that. Screw that.

So then it was a Sharp. 1.2cuft 1000watts for $80. Same thing.
happened just a little off center; food way over heated in one spot
and cold everywhere else.

Seeing as how my first microwave (+ standard convection) was a
2cuft Kennmore and was close to 25 years old, and my second was a
smaller .8cuft dinky Kennmore that lasted 16 years, it was time for
another Kennmore.

Ended up with a 1.5cuft 1200watt for $130 and gave it the "hot dog
test". It evenly plumped the hotdog at 80% power in just 52
seconds then it "exploded" evenly at both ends. It wasn't
overcooked in any one spot. Perfect!

If I live to buy another Microwave, it will be another Kennmore.
These are usually pretty well rated by the consumer rags and
individual reviews. I guess I was just "spoiled" all these years
by having a good microwave and didn't know it.

So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.

Why are the "over the range" microwaves so much more expensive? I
know they usually have fancy exhausts, but other than that are
there any other features that justify 300-500$ price tags? I
didn't even glance at any of them except the price tags. Are these
the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based) microwaves
that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them outside of
his posts.

-sw
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On Oct 25, 1:51*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
> save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.
>



http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...rter_story.asp
>
> -sw


--Bryan
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Default The only decent microwaves are....

Sqwertz wrote:
Are these
> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based) microwaves
> that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them outside of
> his posts.
>
> -sw


My apartment came with a newly-installed
over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it didn't
have a turntable - it has a
rectangular plate which travels from side to side.
Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious cooking in it.

Dora


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Default The only decent microwaves are....


Stu wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
> > wrote:
>
> >On Oct 25, 1:51 am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> >>
> >> So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
> >> save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.
> >>

> >
> >
> >http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...rter_story.asp
> >>
> >> -sw

> >
> >--Bryan

>
> That's the same one we have, quick defrost 1200W.


The inverter models are seemingly kind of nice, however based on a long
history of having nothing but problems with all things matsuSHITa
(a.k.a. panasonic), I would never buy one.

My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
even distribution.
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Default The only decent microwaves are....

"Dora" > wrote in message
...
> Sqwertz wrote:
> Are these
>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based) microwaves
>> that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them outside of
>> his posts.
>>
>> -sw

>
> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it didn't have
> a turntable - it has a
> rectangular plate which travels from side to side.
> Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious cooking in it.
>
> Dora
>
>


The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners or
vegetables. But there was no way to turn the turntable off. Sometimes you
don't want or need a turntable. It drove me nuts!

Jill



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Default The only decent microwaves are....

jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:

> "Dora" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>> Are these
>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them
>>> outside of his posts.
>>>
>>> -sw

>>
>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it
>> didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate which
>> travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I haven't done any
>> serious cooking in it.
>>
>> Dora
>>

> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners
> or vegetables. But there was no way to turn the
> turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a turntable. It drove
> me nuts!


You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the only reason I
can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to rotate.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Default The only decent microwaves are....

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:45:40 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>Stu wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Oct 25, 1:51 am, Sqwertz > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
>> >> save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...rter_story.asp
>> >>
>> >> -sw
>> >
>> >--Bryan

>>
>> That's the same one we have, quick defrost 1200W.

>
>The inverter models are seemingly kind of nice, however based on a long
>history of having nothing but problems with all things matsuSHITa
>(a.k.a. panasonic), I would never buy one.
>
>My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
>unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
>nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
>nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
>microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
>magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
>appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
>even distribution.


My GE nuker has no turntable and heats evenly. I don't like the ones
with turntables because they seriously limit the cookware you can use.
I think a lot of folks have a problem with even heating because they
heat everything on high.
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Default The only decent microwaves are....

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:45:40 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
> unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
> nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
> nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
> microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
> magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
> appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
> even distribution.


My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
new. The sunbeam was the worse. It apparently had no paddles to
deflect its beam of radiation. The Sharp was only marginally
better.

-sw
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Default The only decent microwaves are....

On Oct 25, 10:30*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:45:40 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Stu wrote:

>
> >> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
> >> > wrote:

>
> >> >On Oct 25, 1:51 am, Sqwertz > wrote:

>
> >> >> So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
> >> >> save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.

>
> >> >http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el.../inverter_stor....

>
> >> >> -sw

>
> >> >--Bryan

>
> >> That's the same one we have, quick defrost 1200W.

>
> >The inverter models are seemingly kind of nice, however based on a long
> >history of having nothing but problems with all things matsuSHITa
> >(a.k.a. panasonic), I would never buy one.

>
> >My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
> >unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
> >nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
> >nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
> >microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
> >magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
> >appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
> >even distribution.

>
> My GE nuker has no turntable and heats evenly. *I don't like the ones
> with turntables because they seriously limit the cookware you can use.
> I think a lot of folks have a problem with even heating because they
> heat everything on high.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


I have a large 1000W (might be more, I forget) GE over-the-stove with
exhaust fan - fairly new - with a turntable that I can turn on or
off. I don't have any limit on the size or style of cookware I use,
plus I can even do two levels of cooking if I want. But I don't
generally actually cook anything in it, I just use it for heating
stuff up, melting butter or chocolate, etc. I can set the power
level, defrost, do popcorn, whatever - no problems at all and the fan
has 3 speeds and there's a light. The filter is easily removable and
I can stick it in the dishwasher. I don't see why people get so het
up over microwaves.

N.
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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:30:30 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> My GE nuker has no turntable and heats evenly. I don't like the ones
> with turntables because they seriously limit the cookware you can use.
> I think a lot of folks have a problem with even heating because they
> heat everything on high.


I not only use the power settings, but the "Cooking Stages"
features as well. Nuke on Medium power followed by a resting period
where energy is still bouncing around inside, followed by another
Nuke-Rest sequence.

Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
heat evenly (cue Food Slob).

-sw


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Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:45:40 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Stu wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Oct 25, 1:51 am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> So my personal recommendation for anyone buying a microwave is to
> >> >> save yourself the trouble and buy a Kenmore.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...rter_story.asp
> >> >>
> >> >> -sw
> >> >
> >> >--Bryan
> >>
> >> That's the same one we have, quick defrost 1200W.

> >
> >The inverter models are seemingly kind of nice, however based on a long
> >history of having nothing but problems with all things matsuSHITa
> >(a.k.a. panasonic), I would never buy one.
> >
> >My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
> >unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
> >nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
> >nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
> >microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
> >magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
> >appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
> >even distribution.

>
> My GE nuker has no turntable and heats evenly. I don't like the ones
> with turntables because they seriously limit the cookware you can use.
> I think a lot of folks have a problem with even heating because they
> heat everything on high.


The turntables *do not* in any way limit the cookware you can use. The
owner's manuals clearly indicate that if you do not want the turntable
feature all you have to do is lift the glass table and remove the
plastic "spider" assembly and then the turntable will not turn. A few
models provide a button control to do the same thing.
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Sqwertz wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:45:40 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > My Sharp carousel unit performs well and evenly, not sure why Sqwertz's
> > unit didn't heat evenly. As for the "paddle based" microwaves, that is
> > nothing new or fancy, "paddles" or "stirrers" have been used since
> > nearly the beginning of microwave ovens to more evenly distribute the
> > microwaves by providing variable deflection of the beam from the
> > magnetron. This was the norm long before the turntables started to
> > appear. I think many turntable microwaves also have stirrers for more
> > even distribution.

>
> My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
> new. The sunbeam was the worse. It apparently had no paddles to
> deflect its beam of radiation. The Sharp was only marginally
> better.
>
> -sw


My mother's ~25yr old Sanyo microwave has a stirrer / paddle and it's
still performing flawlessly.
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"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
>
>> "Dora" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> Are these
>>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
>>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them
>>>> outside of his posts.
>>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>
>>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
>>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it
>>> didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate which
>>> travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious
>>> cooking in it.
>>>
>>> Dora
>>>

>> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners or
>> vegetables. But there was no way to turn the
>> turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a turntable. It drove me
>> nuts!

>
> You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the only reason I
> can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to rotate.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>


Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure, I could
remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on kept going round and
round. I used to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna pan
on a turntable? Nope.

Jill

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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:29:26 -0400, jmcquown wrote:

> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure, I could
> remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on kept going round and
> round. I used to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna pan
> on a turntable? Nope.


The track lifts right up and out of there on every microwave I've
seen.

-sw
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jmcquown wrote:
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
> >
> >> "Dora" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Sqwertz wrote:
> >>> Are these
> >>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
> >>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them
> >>>> outside of his posts.
> >>>>
> >>>> -sw
> >>>
> >>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> >>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it
> >>> didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate which
> >>> travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious
> >>> cooking in it.
> >>>
> >>> Dora
> >>>
> >> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners or
> >> vegetables. But there was no way to turn the
> >> turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a turntable. It drove me
> >> nuts!

> >
> > You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the only reason I
> > can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to rotate.
> >
> > --
> >
> > James Silverton
> > Potomac, Maryland
> >

>
> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure, I could
> remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on kept going round and
> round. I used to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna pan
> on a turntable? Nope.
>
> Jill


I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that microwave? The
specifically tell you that if you don't want the turntable rotating you
just lift up the glass turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which
just lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass plate back down
it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds to remove or install the spider.


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Pete wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:06:32 -0500:


> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in
>> message ...
> >> jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
> >>
> >>> "Dora" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> Sqwertz wrote:
> >>>> Are these
> >>>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
> >>>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never
> >>>>> heard of them outside of his posts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -sw
> >>>>
> >>>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> >>>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to
> >>>> find it didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular
> >>>> plate which travels from side to side. Seems OK, although
> >>>> I haven't done any serious cooking in it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dora
> >>>>
> >>> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking
> >>> frozen dinners or vegetables. But there was no way to
> >>> turn the turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need
> >>> a turntable. It drove me nuts!
> >>
> >> You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the
> >> only reason I can see for doing this is that the dish is
> >> too large to rotate.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> James Silverton
> >> Potomac, Maryland
> >>

>> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James.
>> Sure, I could remove the glass turntable but the "track" it
>> ran on kept going round and round. I used to make a decent
>> microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna pan on a turntable?
>> Nope.


>I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that microwave? The
>specifically tell you that if you don't want the turntable rotating you
>just lift up the glass turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which
>just lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass plate back
>down
>it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds to remove or install the spider.


Exactly, that's how it is with mine but, if all else fails, RTFM!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Default The only decent microwaves are....

On Oct 25, 11:35*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:30:30 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > My GE nuker has no turntable and heats evenly. *I don't like the ones
> > with turntables because they seriously limit the cookware you can use.
> > I think a lot of folks have a problem with even heating because they
> > heat everything on high.

>
> I not only use the power settings, but the "Cooking Stages"
> features as well. Nuke on Medium power followed by a resting period
> where energy is still bouncing around inside, followed by another
> Nuke-Rest sequence.
>
> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).


What did you think I'd object to? (assuming you were referring to me)
>
> -sw


--Bryan
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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Bryan wrote:

> On Oct 25, 11:35*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
>> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
>> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).

>
> What did you think I'd object to? (assuming you were referring to me)


You approve of Stouffers frozen lasagna? You're pretty
inconsistent. Some of us just assume you hate everything.

-sw
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On Oct 25, 5:33*pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Bryan wrote:
> > On Oct 25, 11:35*am, Sqwertz > wrote:

>
> >> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
> >> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
> >> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).

>
> > What did you think I'd object to? *(assuming you were referring to me)

>
> You approve of Stouffers frozen lasagna? *You're pretty
> inconsistent. *Some of us just assume you hate everything.


I was just contemplating buying a few later this week. One store has
the 20oz. size @ 3/$5. I don't call heating one in the microwave or
oven "cooking." I've probably only bought them a few times over the
past several years, but that's a heckuva deal. The small size and the
large size are both 3/$5. That's a lot of food for $1.67. They also
have Chilli Man Lean Beef variety for $.88, also a good deal.
Do you equate frozen dinners with throwing together a hodgepodge of
condensed soup, condiments and the like? Of course you don't.
Stouffer's lasagna is a damned sight better than most of the casserole
recipes I've seen posted on this NG.
>
> -sw


--Bryan
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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:47:45 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Oct 25, 5:33*pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Bryan wrote:
> > > On Oct 25, 11:35*am, Sqwertz > wrote:

> >
> > >> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
> > >> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
> > >> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).

> >
> > > What did you think I'd object to? *(assuming you were referring to me)

> >
> > You approve of Stouffers frozen lasagna? *You're pretty
> > inconsistent. *Some of us just assume you hate everything.

>
> I was just contemplating buying a few later this week. One store has
> the 20oz. size @ 3/$5. I don't call heating one in the microwave or
> oven "cooking." I've probably only bought them a few times over the
> past several years, but that's a heckuva deal. The small size and the
> large size are both 3/$5. That's a lot of food for $1.67. They also
> have Chilli Man Lean Beef variety for $.88, also a good deal.
> Do you equate frozen dinners with throwing together a hodgepodge of
> condensed soup, condiments and the like? Of course you don't.
> Stouffer's lasagna is a damned sight better than most of the casserole
> recipes I've seen posted on this NG.
> >

I used to like Stouffer's vegetable lasagna, but I haven't bought it
in years so I don't know what I'd think of it now. I always added
extra garlic and some parmesan because it didn't have enough "oomph"
for me. Other than that, it was delicious. I don't even remember it
being too salty. I buy the spinach souffle once in a while to use as
a mushroom stuffing, but I can't eat it straight anymore because it's
too salty for my taste.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.


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sf > wrote in news:5c4cc6hp0vqkvji2scnpjmtmvkqrevaiql@
4ax.com:

> I always added
> extra garlic and some parmesan because it didn't have enough "oomph"
> for me. Other than that, it was delicious.


Other than not having much taste it was delicious?

> I don't even remember it
> being too salty. I buy the spinach souffle once in a while to use as
> a mushroom stuffing, but I can't eat it straight anymore because it's
> too salty for my taste.


My first wife's culinary talents were limited to sticking a Stouffer's
frozen entrée in the oven. I taught myself to cook as a means of self-
defense against women who are incomptent in the kitchen.

I finally got a carbonara right tonight.

--

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag
and carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnrYMafCzeE
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In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:


> I not only use the power settings, but the "Cooking Stages"
> features as well. Nuke on Medium power followed by a resting period
> where energy is still bouncing around inside, followed by another
> Nuke-Rest sequence.


I don't understand. When you say "power", is that like the 60% setting
where it is on for 60% and off for 40%? And is a "resting period" where
the microwaves don't come on at all for some period of time? And when
you say "energy is still bouncing around", are you referring to heat
conduction? There are no microwaves bouncing around after the tube
shuts off.

> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).


I read an explanation for this somewhere on the internet (I believe the
URL was posted on this group, sometime in the dim past). Different
substances absorb microwaves at different rates. Water is really good.
Metal generally reflects microwaves and doesn't absorb them. Ice is not
good. Food with corners is not good because the corners absorb
microwaves from several directions whereas the flat parts only absorb
microwaves from fewer directions. So a big rectangle of frozen lasagna
presents problems. There's no water in it, and the ice doesn't absorb
microwaves well. There's enough fat to absorb the microwaves, and the
ice does absorb some. However, the corners start to thaw first. Now
there's water there, and they get really hot. The only way to heat the
whole thing evenly is to stop the microwaves and let ordinary conduction
transfer heat away from the hot spots to melt more ice. Once enough ice
is melted, then the microwaves will be more evenly absorbed and there
won't be such a problem with uneven heating.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:13:20 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> I not only use the power settings, but the "Cooking Stages"
>> features as well. Nuke on Medium power followed by a resting period
>> where energy is still bouncing around inside, followed by another
>> Nuke-Rest sequence.

>
> I don't understand. When you say "power", is that like the 60% setting
> where it is on for 60% and off for 40%? And is a "resting period" where
> the microwaves don't come on at all for some period of time? And when
> you say "energy is still bouncing around", are you referring to heat
> conduction? There are no microwaves bouncing around after the tube
> shuts off.


Yes, Yes, Maybe. I was always told there's still some friction(?)
going inside the food after the microwave stopped. Something other
than conduction. which makes the resting period(s) more effective
and less intense. It really does seem that way because food does
seem to heat up more than from just conduction.

>> Especially for something like a Stouffers large lasagna with Meat
>> Sauce which is a frozen solid block of goo that is very hard to
>> heat evenly (cue Food Slob).

>
> I read an explanation for this somewhere on the internet (I believe the
> URL was posted on this group, sometime in the dim past). Different
> substances absorb microwaves at different rates. Water is really good.
> Metal generally reflects microwaves and doesn't absorb them. Ice is not
> good. Food with corners is not good because the corners absorb
> microwaves from several directions whereas the flat parts only absorb
> microwaves from fewer directions. So a big rectangle of frozen lasagna
> presents problems. There's no water in it, and the ice doesn't absorb
> microwaves well. There's enough fat to absorb the microwaves, and the
> ice does absorb some. However, the corners start to thaw first. Now
> there's water there, and they get really hot. The only way to heat the
> whole thing evenly is to stop the microwaves and let ordinary conduction
> transfer heat away from the hot spots to melt more ice. Once enough ice
> is melted, then the microwaves will be more evenly absorbed and there
> won't be such a problem with uneven heating.


Oh, stop the bullshit, Sheldon!

Oh, its not Sheldon. In that case, that seems like a pretty good,
logical explanation to me (seriously).

:-)

-sw
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Default The only decent microwaves are....

"Pete C." > wrote in message
ter.com...
>
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
>> >
>> >> "Dora" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>> Sqwertz wrote:
>> >>> Are these
>> >>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
>> >>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them
>> >>>> outside of his posts.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -sw
>> >>>
>> >>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
>> >>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it
>> >>> didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate which
>> >>> travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I haven't done any
>> >>> serious
>> >>> cooking in it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dora
>> >>>
>> >> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners
>> >> or
>> >> vegetables. But there was no way to turn the
>> >> turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a turntable. It drove
>> >> me
>> >> nuts!
>> >
>> > You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the only reason
>> > I
>> > can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to rotate.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > James Silverton
>> > Potomac, Maryland
>> >

>>
>> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure, I could
>> remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on kept going round and
>> round. I used to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna
>> pan
>> on a turntable? Nope.
>>
>> Jill

>
> I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that microwave? The
> specifically tell you that if you don't want the turntable rotating you
> just lift up the glass turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which
> just lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass plate back down
> it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds to remove or install the spider.




I take it you didn't read my thread about 12 years ago when I bought the
microwave. (I'm one of those people who *does* read the owners manual.)
Removing the "spider" wasn't the issue. I didn't want to put the glass
plate back down, I wanted to use my own rectangular lasagna baking dish.
Spider or not, it would try to turn it. That didn't work out. It was a
cheap microwave. It served the purpose for popping in a frozen dinner or
heating up leftovers from time to time, but not much else.

I was used to an old RCA (yes, like the television) microwave. It had a a
dual cooking rack (for cooking several things at once on two levels) and a
temperature probe. It was somethiing you could actually COOK in without the
oven mechanisms trying to take over.

Jill

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jmcquown wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ter.com...
> >
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >>
> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
> >> >
> >> >> "Dora" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>> Sqwertz wrote:
> >> >>> Are these
> >> >>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
> >> >>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never heard of them
> >> >>>> outside of his posts.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -sw
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> >> >>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find it
> >> >>> didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate which
> >> >>> travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I haven't done any
> >> >>> serious
> >> >>> cooking in it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Dora
> >> >>>
> >> >> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking frozen dinners
> >> >> or
> >> >> vegetables. But there was no way to turn the
> >> >> turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a turntable. It drove
> >> >> me
> >> >> nuts!
> >> >
> >> > You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the only reason
> >> > I
> >> > can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to rotate.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > James Silverton
> >> > Potomac, Maryland
> >> >
> >>
> >> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure, I could
> >> remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on kept going round and
> >> round. I used to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna
> >> pan
> >> on a turntable? Nope.
> >>
> >> Jill

> >
> > I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that microwave? The
> > specifically tell you that if you don't want the turntable rotating you
> > just lift up the glass turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which
> > just lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass plate back down
> > it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds to remove or install the spider.

>
> I take it you didn't read my thread about 12 years ago when I bought the
> microwave. (I'm one of those people who *does* read the owners manual.)
> Removing the "spider" wasn't the issue. I didn't want to put the glass
> plate back down, I wanted to use my own rectangular lasagna baking dish.
> Spider or not, it would try to turn it. That didn't work out. It was a
> cheap microwave. It served the purpose for popping in a frozen dinner or
> heating up leftovers from time to time, but not much else.
>
> I was used to an old RCA (yes, like the television) microwave. It had a a
> dual cooking rack (for cooking several things at once on two levels) and a
> temperature probe. It was somethiing you could actually COOK in without the
> oven mechanisms trying to take over.
>
> Jill


You are not supposed to operate the microwave with out the glass base
platter installed. They are there specifically to elevate the food above
the actual metal floor of the microwave so that the microwaves can
bounce around under the food and cook the bottom. If you put something
directly down on the floor the bottom will not cook. Since those spiders
plug into a recessed square drive socket, I can't see how it would still
be trying to turn your dish anyway.


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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> On Tue 26 Oct 2010 05:20:46a, Pete C. told us...
>
> >
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >>
> >> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> >> ter.com...
> >> >
> >> > jmcquown wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> >> >> message ...
> >> >> > jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Dora" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >>> Sqwertz wrote:
> >> >> >>> Are these
> >> >> >>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to turntable-based)
> >> >> >>>> microwaves that Wayne is always touting? I have never
> >> >> >>>> heard of them outside of his posts.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> -sw
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> >> >> >>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised to find
> >> >> >>> it didn't have a turntable - it has a rectangular plate
> >> >> >>> which travels from side to side. Seems OK, although I
> >> >> >>> haven't done any serious cooking in it.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Dora
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for nuking
> >> >> >> frozen dinners or vegetables. But there was no way to turn
> >> >> >> the turntable off. Sometimes you don't want or need a
> >> >> >> turntable. It drove me nuts!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You could remove the turntable and cook without it but the
> >> >> > only reason I
> >> >> > can see for doing this is that the dish is too large to
> >> >> > rotate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> >
> >> >> > James Silverton
> >> >> > Potomac, Maryland
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James. Sure,
> >> >> I could remove the glass turntable but the "track" it ran on
> >> >> kept going round and round. I used to make a decent microwave
> >> >> lasagna, but a glass lasagna pan on a turntable? Nope.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jill
> >> >
> >> > I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that microwave?
> >> > The specifically tell you that if you don't want the turntable
> >> > rotating you just lift up the glass turntable and remove the
> >> > plastic "spider" which just lifts out of a square drive hole.
> >> > You put the glass plate back down it that's it, it takes about
> >> > 5 seconds to remove or install the spider.
> >>
> >> I take it you didn't read my thread about 12 years ago when I
> >> bought the microwave. (I'm one of those people who *does* read
> >> the owners manual.) Removing the "spider" wasn't the issue. I
> >> didn't want to put the glass plate back down, I wanted to use my
> >> own rectangular lasagna baking dish. Spider or not, it would try
> >> to turn it. That didn't work out. It was a cheap microwave. It
> >> served the purpose for popping in a frozen dinner or heating up
> >> leftovers from time to time, but not much else.
> >>
> >> I was used to an old RCA (yes, like the television) microwave.
> >> It had a a dual cooking rack (for cooking several things at once
> >> on two levels) and a temperature probe. It was somethiing you
> >> could actually COOK in without the oven mechanisms trying to take
> >> over.
> >>
> >> Jill

> >
> > You are not supposed to operate the microwave with out the glass
> > base platter installed. They are there specifically to elevate the
> > food above the actual metal floor of the microwave so that the
> > microwaves can bounce around under the food and cook the bottom.
> > If you put something directly down on the floor the bottom will
> > not cook. Since those spiders plug into a recessed square drive
> > socket, I can't see how it would still be trying to turn your dish
> > anyway.
> >

>
> FWIW, in many cases it's not the spider that connects with the drive
> unit, but the glass turntable itself, which has a molded center to
> conform with the drive unit. The spider is there only to provide
> stability and is connected to nothing.


On the ones like that that I have seen, there is still a little plastic
drive hub that is removable so there is no link between the turntable
and the motor drive.

>
> Still other microwave units have a recessed turntable, so that if one
> needs to use an oversized rectantular baking dish, it can be set on
> top, not touching the rotating turntable. Not to mention the already
> mentioned turntables that have a switcht to turn them off.
>
> If all this still boggles the mind, you need to get out more and look
> at how various units are made today.


Again, I've looked at a lot of microwaves and have yet to see one where
you can not easily disable the turntable motion in a way documented in
the owner's manual.
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Pete wrote on Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:11:55 -0500:


> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> On Tue 26 Oct 2010 05:20:46a, Pete C. told us...
>>
> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> >>> ter.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "James Silverton" > wrote
> >> >>> in message ...
> >> >> >> jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> "Dora" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>> ...
> >> >> >>>> Sqwertz wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Are these
> >> >> >>>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to
> >> >> >>>>> turntable-based) microwaves that Wayne is always
> >> >> >>>>> touting? I have never heard of them outside of his
> >> >> >>>>> posts.
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> -sw
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
> >> >> >>>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised
> >> >> >>>> to find it didn't have a turntable - it has a
> >> >> >>>> rectangular plate which travels from side to side.
> >> >> >>>> Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious
> >> >> >>>> cooking in it.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Dora
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for
> >> >> >>> nuking frozen dinners or vegetables. But there was
> >> >> >>> no way to turn the turntable off. Sometimes you
> >> >> >>> don't want or need a turntable. It drove me nuts!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You could remove the turntable and cook without it
> >> >> >> but the only reason I can see for doing this is that
> >> >> >> the dish is too large to rotate.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> James Silverton
> >> >> >> Potomac, Maryland
> >> >> >>
> >> >>> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James.
> >> >>> Sure, I could remove the glass turntable but the
> >> >>> "track" it ran on kept going round and round. I used
> >> >>> to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna
> >> >>> pan on a turntable? Nope.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jill
> >> >>
> >> >> I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that
> >> >> microwave? The specifically tell you that if you don't
> >> >> want the turntable rotating you just lift up the glass
> >> >> turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which just
> >> >> lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass
> >> >> plate back down it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds
> >> >> to remove or install the spider.
> >>>
> >>> I take it you didn't read my thread about 12 years ago
> >>> when I bought the microwave. (I'm one of those people who
> >>> *does* read the owners manual.) Removing the "spider"
> >>> wasn't the issue. I didn't want to put the glass plate
> >>> back down, I wanted to use my own rectangular lasagna
> >>> baking dish. Spider or not, it would try to turn it. That
> >>> didn't work out. It was a cheap microwave. It served the
> >>> purpose for popping in a frozen dinner or heating
> >>> up leftovers from time to time, but not much else.
> >>>
> >>> I was used to an old RCA (yes, like the television)
> >>> microwave. It had a a dual cooking rack (for cooking
> >>> several things at once on two levels) and a temperature
> >>> probe. It was somethiing you could actually COOK in
> >>> without the oven mechanisms trying to take over.
> >>>
> >>> Jill
> >>
> >> You are not supposed to operate the microwave with out the
> >> glass base platter installed. They are there specifically
> >> to elevate the food above the actual metal floor of the
> >> microwave so that the microwaves can bounce around under
> >> the food and cook the bottom. If you put something directly
> >> down on the floor the bottom will not cook. Since those
> >> spiders plug into a recessed square drive socket, I can't
> >> see how it would still be trying to turn your dish anyway.
> >>

>> FWIW, in many cases it's not the spider that connects with
>> the drive unit, but the glass turntable itself, which has a
>> molded center to conform with the drive unit. The spider is
>> there only to provide stability and is connected to nothing.


> On the ones like that that I have seen, there is still a
> little plastic drive hub that is removable so there is no link
> between the turntable and the motor drive.


>> Still other microwave units have a recessed turntable, so
>> that if one needs to use an oversized rectantular baking
>> dish, it can be set on top, not touching the rotating
>> turntable. Not to mention the already mentioned turntables
>> that have a switcht to turn them off.
>>
>> If all this still boggles the mind, you need to get out more
>> and look at how various units are made today.


I used to have a Sharp microwave but it died a while ago. I replaced it
with a Kenmore model 721 on advice from CR. The Kenmore is pretty good
tho' it lacks a button that gives multiples of 30 seconds heating that
was good for reheating coffee. With the Kenmore, I find that 1 minute 20
seconds is good for coffee and thus lazy me has to press buttons three
times instead of two and also find different buttons in my morning
stupor.:-) The Kenmore has a vapor sensor that works pretty well for
automatic cooking and defrosting.

I finally dug out the manual for my Kenmore.. What I believe others
refer to as a "spider" is a three-armed device that the manual calls a
"roller rest". This appears to be mechanically connected thro' a central
hole to something that rotates it and thus the circular glass turntable.
As far as I can tell , there is no suggestion to cook without the roller
rest but you are warned not to cook without the turntable.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:37:26 -0500, Michel Boucher wrote:

> sf > wrote in news:5c4cc6hp0vqkvji2scnpjmtmvkqrevaiql@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> I always added
>> extra garlic and some parmesan because it didn't have enough "oomph"
>> for me. Other than that, it was delicious.

>
> Other than not having much taste it was delicious?
>
>> I don't even remember it
>> being too salty. I buy the spinach souffle once in a while to use as
>> a mushroom stuffing, but I can't eat it straight anymore because it's
>> too salty for my taste.

>
> My first wife's culinary talents were limited to sticking a Stouffer's
> frozen entrée in the oven. I taught myself to cook as a means of self-
> defense against women who are incomptent in the kitchen.
>
> I finally got a carbonara right tonight.


it's a nice feeling when a dish you've been working on finally comes out
right.

your pal,
blake
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blake murphy > wrote in
:

>> I finally got a carbonara right tonight.

>
> it's a nice feeling when a dish you've been working on finally comes out
> right.


Indeed it does.

--

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag
and carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnrYMafCzeE
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"sf" > wrote in message
...

>> >

> I used to like Stouffer's vegetable lasagna, but I haven't bought it
> in years so I don't know what I'd think of it now. I always added
> extra garlic and some parmesan because it didn't have enough "oomph"
> for me. Other than that, it was delicious. I don't even remember it
> being too salty. I buy the spinach souffle once in a while to use as
> a mushroom stuffing, but I can't eat it straight anymore because it's
> too salty for my taste.


I like the stouffer's lasagna too but most of that brand is way too high in
calories. Their leaner line, Lean Cuisine, is just as good IMO and much
lower in cals, but still has high salt content.



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"Pete C." > wrote in message
ter.com...
>
> Sqwertz wrote:


>>
>> My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
>> new. The sunbeam was the worse. It apparently had no paddles to
>> deflect its beam of radiation. The Sharp was only marginally
>> better.


>
> My mother's ~25yr old Sanyo microwave has a stirrer / paddle and it's
> still performing flawlessly.
>


What do you guys mean by stirrers and paddles in a microwave? I've tried to
google it but without context, it isn't helping me. TIA.


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Cheryl wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ter.com...
> >
> > Sqwertz wrote:

>
> >>
> >> My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
> >> new. The sunbeam was the worse. It apparently had no paddles to
> >> deflect its beam of radiation. The Sharp was only marginally
> >> better.

>
> >
> > My mother's ~25yr old Sanyo microwave has a stirrer / paddle and it's
> > still performing flawlessly.
> >

>
> What do you guys mean by stirrers and paddles in a microwave? I've tried to
> google it but without context, it isn't helping me. TIA.
>


Ok, here goes:

Microwave ovens heat food by exposing it to microwave (radio frequency)
radiation which causes the food molecules to vibrate causing friction
and generating heat.

Microwave radiation is generated by a magnetron and travels in a
relatively straight beam from the magnetron's output port. This beam of
microwave radiation bounces off the walls of the oven cavity until it
hits and is absorbed by the food.

Since the microwave radiation travels in a relatively straight beam, it
will tend to setup a standing wave pattern of reflections inside the
oven cavity which can leave areas of food relatively untouched by the
beam and thus unheated and uncooked.

There are two main techniques used to overcome this issue, turntables
for the food and stirrers for the microwave beam. Turntables are pretty
obvious and work by rotating the food through the microwave standing
wave pattern and thus heating the food more evenly.

Stirrers are less obvious since they are usually hidden, but basically
they are a metal fan blade of sorts that spins at a fairly slow speed
and is placed in the path of the microwave beam exiting the magnetron
and are usually behind the microwave exit port (a fiberglass panel of
sorts) so they aren't visible.

By spinning in the path of the microwave beam, the stirrer deflects the
beam at a wide range of angles on it's way into the oven cavity thereby
eliminating standing wave patterns and ensuring even coverage of the
food.
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:51:58 -0400, "Cheryl" >
wrote:

> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> >

> > I used to like Stouffer's vegetable lasagna, but I haven't bought it
> > in years so I don't know what I'd think of it now. I always added
> > extra garlic and some parmesan because it didn't have enough "oomph"
> > for me. Other than that, it was delicious. I don't even remember it
> > being too salty. I buy the spinach souffle once in a while to use as
> > a mushroom stuffing, but I can't eat it straight anymore because it's
> > too salty for my taste.

>
> I like the stouffer's lasagna too but most of that brand is way too high in
> calories. Their leaner line, Lean Cuisine, is just as good IMO and much
> lower in cals, but still has high salt content.


Thanks for confirming that it's salty and for adding "calories". I
can understand calories, but why on earth do they keep it so salty in
this day and age? Not only have tastes changed overall, it's a
medical priority to lower salt intake for many.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:09:58 -0400, "Cheryl" >
wrote:

> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ter.com...
> >
> > Sqwertz wrote:

>
> >>
> >> My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
> >> new. The sunbeam was the worse. It apparently had no paddles to
> >> deflect its beam of radiation. The Sharp was only marginally
> >> better.

>
> >
> > My mother's ~25yr old Sanyo microwave has a stirrer / paddle and it's
> > still performing flawlessly.
> >

>
> What do you guys mean by stirrers and paddles in a microwave? I've tried to
> google it but without context, it isn't helping me. TIA.
>

Sounds more like a mixer than a microwave, doesn't it?

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Default The only decent microwaves are....

On Oct 26, 5:34*pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>
> > "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ster.com...

>
> > > Sqwertz wrote:

>
> > >> My impression from reading Wayne's posts that they were something
> > >> new. The sunbeam was the worse. *It apparently had no paddles to
> > >> deflect its beam of radiation. *The Sharp was only marginally
> > >> better.

>
> > > My mother's ~25yr old Sanyo microwave has a stirrer / paddle and it's
> > > still performing flawlessly.

>
> > What do you guys mean by stirrers and paddles in a microwave? *I've tried to
> > google it but without context, it isn't helping me. *TIA.

>
> Ok, here goes:
>
> Microwave ovens heat food by exposing it to microwave (radio frequency)
> radiation which causes the food molecules to vibrate causing friction
> and generating heat.
>
> Microwave radiation is generated by a magnetron and travels in a
> relatively straight beam from the magnetron's output port. This beam of
> microwave radiation bounces off the walls of the oven cavity until it
> hits and is absorbed by the food.
>
> Since the microwave radiation travels in a relatively straight beam, it
> will tend to setup a standing wave pattern of reflections inside the
> oven cavity which can leave areas of food relatively untouched by the
> beam and thus unheated and uncooked.
>
> There are two main techniques used to overcome this issue, turntables
> for the food and stirrers for the microwave beam. Turntables are pretty
> obvious and work by rotating the food through the microwave standing
> wave pattern and thus heating the food more evenly.
>
> Stirrers are less obvious since they are usually hidden, but basically
> they are a metal fan blade of sorts that spins at a fairly slow speed
> and is placed in the path of the microwave beam exiting the magnetron
> and are usually behind the microwave exit port (a fiberglass panel of
> sorts) so they aren't visible.
>
> By spinning in the path of the microwave beam, the stirrer deflects the
> beam at a wide range of angles on it's way into the oven cavity thereby
> eliminating standing wave patterns and ensuring even coverage of the
> food.


==
I often wondered if a round chamber with proper reflective material
and with a small flat bottom or rack would have been a better set-up
thus eliminating the need for stirrers and turntables. I suppose if
there was a better way the manufacturers would have used it long ago.
==


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"Pete C." > wrote in message
ter.com...

>
> Ok, here goes:
>
> Microwave ovens heat food by exposing it to microwave (radio frequency)
> radiation which causes the food molecules to vibrate causing friction
> and generating heat.
>
> Microwave radiation is generated by a magnetron and travels in a
> relatively straight beam from the magnetron's output port. This beam of
> microwave radiation bounces off the walls of the oven cavity until it
> hits and is absorbed by the food.
>
> Since the microwave radiation travels in a relatively straight beam, it
> will tend to setup a standing wave pattern of reflections inside the
> oven cavity which can leave areas of food relatively untouched by the
> beam and thus unheated and uncooked.
>
> There are two main techniques used to overcome this issue, turntables
> for the food and stirrers for the microwave beam. Turntables are pretty
> obvious and work by rotating the food through the microwave standing
> wave pattern and thus heating the food more evenly.
>
> Stirrers are less obvious since they are usually hidden, but basically
> they are a metal fan blade of sorts that spins at a fairly slow speed
> and is placed in the path of the microwave beam exiting the magnetron
> and are usually behind the microwave exit port (a fiberglass panel of
> sorts) so they aren't visible.
>
> By spinning in the path of the microwave beam, the stirrer deflects the
> beam at a wide range of angles on it's way into the oven cavity thereby
> eliminating standing wave patterns and ensuring even coverage of the
> food.
>


Makes perfect sense now! Thank you! So those with just a turntable and not
a paddle or deflector probably shouldn't be used without the turntable
spinning. I'm looking to replace my very very old microwave oven, soon,
too, so I'm reading this with a lot of interest. Same with the dishwasher
thread.

My old microwave oven has a visible fan in the top of the unit behind the
"ceiling" of the unit but has little holes, that I never really gave much
thought.


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"sf" > wrote in message
...

> Sounds more like a mixer than a microwave, doesn't it?


Heehee. Yeah! I was lost.

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On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:07:13 -0400, "Cheryl" >
wrote:

> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Sounds more like a mixer than a microwave, doesn't it?

>
> Heehee. Yeah! I was lost.


Don't worry, you have company.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.
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"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Pete wrote on Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:11:55 -0500:
>
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue 26 Oct 2010 05:20:46a, Pete C. told us...
>>>
>> >> jmcquown wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>> >>> ter.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> jmcquown wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "James Silverton" > wrote
>> >> >>> in message ...
>> >> >> >> jmcquown wrote on Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:02:16 -0400:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> "Dora" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >>> ...
>> >> >> >>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> Are these
>> >> >> >>>>> the fancy "paddle-based" (as opposed to
>> >> >> >>>>> turntable-based) microwaves that Wayne is always
>> >> >> >>>>> touting? I have never heard of them outside of his
>> >> >> >>>>> posts.
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>> -sw
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> My apartment came with a newly-installed
>> >> >> >>>> over-the-stove Kenmore microwave. I was surprised
>> >> >> >>>> to find it didn't have a turntable - it has a
>> >> >> >>>> rectangular plate which travels from side to side.
>> >> >> >>>> Seems OK, although I haven't done any serious
>> >> >> >>>> cooking in it.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> Dora
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>> The last microwave I had (a Sharp) was fine for
>> >> >> >>> nuking frozen dinners or vegetables. But there was
>> >> >> >>> no way to turn the turntable off. Sometimes you
>> >> >> >>> don't want or need a turntable. It drove me nuts!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You could remove the turntable and cook without it
>> >> >> >> but the only reason I can see for doing this is that
>> >> >> >> the dish is too large to rotate.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> James Silverton
>> >> >> >> Potomac, Maryland
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>> Precisely why I wanted not to use the turntable, James.
>> >> >>> Sure, I could remove the glass turntable but the
>> >> >>> "track" it ran on kept going round and round. I used
>> >> >>> to make a decent microwave lasagna, but a glass lasagna
>> >> >>> pan on a turntable? Nope.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Jill
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I take it you didn't read the owners manual for that
>> >> >> microwave? The specifically tell you that if you don't
>> >> >> want the turntable rotating you just lift up the glass
>> >> >> turntable and remove the plastic "spider" which just
>> >> >> lifts out of a square drive hole. You put the glass
>> >> >> plate back down it that's it, it takes about 5 seconds
>> >> >> to remove or install the spider.
>> >>>
>> >>> I take it you didn't read my thread about 12 years ago
>> >>> when I bought the microwave. (I'm one of those people who
>> >>> *does* read the owners manual.) Removing the "spider"
>> >>> wasn't the issue. I didn't want to put the glass plate
>> >>> back down, I wanted to use my own rectangular lasagna
>> >>> baking dish. Spider or not, it would try to turn it. That
>> >>> didn't work out. It was a cheap microwave. It served the
>> >>> purpose for popping in a frozen dinner or heating
>> >>> up leftovers from time to time, but not much else.
>> >>>
>> >>> I was used to an old RCA (yes, like the television)
>> >>> microwave. It had a a dual cooking rack (for cooking
>> >>> several things at once on two levels) and a temperature
>> >>> probe. It was somethiing you could actually COOK in
>> >>> without the oven mechanisms trying to take over.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jill
>> >>
>> >> You are not supposed to operate the microwave with out the
>> >> glass base platter installed. They are there specifically
>> >> to elevate the food above the actual metal floor of the
>> >> microwave so that the microwaves can bounce around under
>> >> the food and cook the bottom. If you put something directly
>> >> down on the floor the bottom will not cook. Since those
>> >> spiders plug into a recessed square drive socket, I can't
>> >> see how it would still be trying to turn your dish anyway.
>> >>
>>> FWIW, in many cases it's not the spider that connects with
>>> the drive unit, but the glass turntable itself, which has a
>>> molded center to conform with the drive unit. The spider is
>>> there only to provide stability and is connected to nothing.

>
>> On the ones like that that I have seen, there is still a
>> little plastic drive hub that is removable so there is no link
>> between the turntable and the motor drive.

>
>>> Still other microwave units have a recessed turntable, so
>>> that if one needs to use an oversized rectantular baking
>>> dish, it can be set on top, not touching the rotating
>>> turntable. Not to mention the already mentioned turntables
>>> that have a switcht to turn them off.
>>>
>>> If all this still boggles the mind, you need to get out more
>>> and look at how various units are made today.

>
> I used to have a Sharp microwave but it died a while ago. I replaced it
> with a Kenmore model 721 on advice from CR. The Kenmore is pretty good
> tho' it lacks a button that gives multiples of 30 seconds heating that was
> good for reheating coffee. With the Kenmore, I find that 1 minute 20
> seconds is good for coffee and thus lazy me has to press buttons three
> times instead of two and also find different buttons in my morning
> stupor.:-) The Kenmore has a vapor sensor that works pretty well for
> automatic cooking and defrosting.
>
> I finally dug out the manual for my Kenmore.. What I believe others refer
> to as a "spider" is a three-armed device that the manual calls a "roller
> rest". This appears to be mechanically connected thro' a central hole to
> something that rotates it and thus the circular glass turntable. As far as
> I can tell , there is no suggestion to cook without the roller rest but
> you are warned not to cook without the turntable.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>


Yes, James. That's pretty much what I ran into with my Sharp. It was cheap
but there were no instructions for removing the turntable. And they pretty
much said not to cook without it. It was useless other than for heating up
frozen dinners. I hated it. Won't ever buy one again, that's for sure.

Jill

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jmcquown wrote on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:05:26 -0400:
>>

> Yes, James. That's pretty much what I ran into with my Sharp.
> It was cheap but there were no instructions for removing the
> turntable. And they pretty much said not to cook without it. It was
> useless other than for heating up frozen dinners. I
> hated it. Won't ever buy one again, that's for sure.


I'd suggest you buy a bigger microwave if you insist on using large
square dishes. Otherwise, one with a reflecting paddle might be better
than one with a turntable. Personally, I don't have the patience to
rotate dishes manually and my Kenmore does a reasonably uniform job of
cooking.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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