On Aug 1, 8:43*am, ImStillMags > wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have posted your thoughts and impressions.

Please continue to tell about your restaurant experiences. They are
all valuable.

If I had the coinage, I would do all three concepts I am working on
right now.

One is a breakfast and lunch 'deli' in a downtown office area.

One is a quick service (not fast food) breakfast, lunch and dinner
'blue collar' fare joint in an industrial park area.

One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
elegant bar.


I'd love to hear your thoughts on these concepts.....to see how they
jibe with mine.

If I were to own a restaurant, I would have a training session where half of
the servers would be customers, and half of them servers, then repeat and
reverse the next day.

Then have brainstorming sessions about what they liked and didn't like. Or
instant comments.

Yes, you can have doting servers who are there too much. We had such
service on a recent cruise, and it was annoying. Just be around where I can
make eye contact with you, stop by when you're going my way and say,
"Everything ok?", LOOK at me once in a while. I don't want you hovering at
the table or standing so close at attention that I think you're
eavesdropping when you are, or I am talking about something that is
personal.

A fine server is invisible except when needed. One should never have to ask
for water, bread, butter, or ANYTHING unless it is outside the norm, like
some hot sauce, or something like that.

A good patron, I believe would make good fodder for a good server.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Aug 1, 9:30*am, "Steve B" > wrote:
> If I were to own a restaurant, I would have a training session where half of
> the servers would be customers, and half of them servers, then repeat and
> reverse the next day.
>

I would actually take them somewhere else, so that they can experience
other service, not somebody on their best behavior specifically for
the event.

For several years, my deli manager has taken us out to eat once a year
with her bonus money as a way to say thank you. One restaurant we went
to was very expensive, but the service not so great. So, we actually
had a discussion of service while at the dinner.

Years ago, I had two coworkers who had very poor customer service
attitude. They could help a customer with an order just fine. But at
night, when closing up, they would turn out the lights early, and tell
people we were closed if somebody tried to order something. They knew
not to do it in front of me, but I knew they did it when I wasn't
there. I tried to explain to them that it is frustrating for a
customer to see the salad or meat they want, see an employee right
there, and not be able to get it. IN a business to sell food, why
refuse to sell it to them?

One night, after work, we went to Dairy Queen to get a milk shake. We
hurried to get there, but they were closed already. One lady got out
to go read the time on the door so that we could try and get their
earlier next time. The manager came to the door, let us in, and made
the milkshakes. My coworkers were completely impressed and now
understood what it was like to get good service late at night. They
were much better after that. It really helped them to see it from the
customer's point of view.

wrote:

> For several years, my deli manager has taken us out to eat once a year
> with her bonus money as a way to say thank you. One restaurant we went
> to was very expensive, but the service not so great. So, we actually
> had a discussion of service while at the dinner.
>
> Years ago, I had two coworkers who had very poor customer service
> attitude. They could help a customer with an order just fine. But at
> night, when closing up, they would turn out the lights early, and tell
> people we were closed if somebody tried to order something. They knew
> not to do it in front of me, but I knew they did it when I wasn't
> there. I tried to explain to them that it is frustrating for a
> customer to see the salad or meat they want, see an employee right
> there, and not be able to get it. IN a business to sell food, why
> refuse to sell it to them?
>
> One night, after work, we went to Dairy Queen to get a milk shake. We
> hurried to get there, but they were closed already. One lady got out
> to go read the time on the door so that we could try and get their
> earlier next time. The manager came to the door, let us in, and made
> the milkshakes. My coworkers were completely impressed and now
> understood what it was like to get good service late at night. They
> were much better after that. It really helped them to see it from the
> customer's point of view.

Cool story. Coincidentally enough, I was in a restaurant a few days
ago and commented that the servers tend to be on the young side,
with not a lot of experience eating out, so they'd know what good
service (or bad) was. Some restaurants don't do enough to make
them understand.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
news:KEC5o.28589$X%4.20078@hurricane...
> wrote:
>
>> For several years, my deli manager has taken us out to eat once a year
>> with her bonus money as a way to say thank you. One restaurant we went
>> to was very expensive, but the service not so great. So, we actually
>> had a discussion of service while at the dinner.
>>
>> Years ago, I had two coworkers who had very poor customer service
>> attitude. They could help a customer with an order just fine. But at
>> night, when closing up, they would turn out the lights early, and tell
>> people we were closed if somebody tried to order something. They knew
>> not to do it in front of me, but I knew they did it when I wasn't
>> there. I tried to explain to them that it is frustrating for a
>> customer to see the salad or meat they want, see an employee right
>> there, and not be able to get it. IN a business to sell food, why
>> refuse to sell it to them?
>>
>> One night, after work, we went to Dairy Queen to get a milk shake. We
>> hurried to get there, but they were closed already. One lady got out
>> to go read the time on the door so that we could try and get their
>> earlier next time. The manager came to the door, let us in, and made
>> the milkshakes. My coworkers were completely impressed and now
>> understood what it was like to get good service late at night. They
>> were much better after that. It really helped them to see it from the
>> customer's point of view.
>
> Cool story. Coincidentally enough, I was in a restaurant a few days
> ago and commented that the servers tend to be on the young side,
> with not a lot of experience eating out, so they'd know what good
> service (or bad) was. Some restaurants don't do enough to make
> them understand.
>
> nancy

And some are so compound stupid that they don't know that they don't know
that the better they are at serving, the better their tip is. They think
they get paid and tipped for just being there.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Aug 2, 10:06*am, "Steve B" > wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>
> news:KEC5o.28589$X%4.20078@hurricane...
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> For several years, my deli manager has taken us out to eat once a year
> >> with her bonus money as a way to say thank you. One restaurant we went
> >> to was very expensive, but the service not so great. So, we actually
> >> had a discussion of service while at the dinner.
>
> >> Years ago, I had two coworkers who had very poor customer service
> >> attitude. They could help a customer with an order just fine. But at
> >> night, when closing up, they would turn out the lights early, and tell
> >> people we were closed if somebody tried to order something. They knew
> >> not to do it in front of me, but I knew they did it when I wasn't
> >> there. I tried to explain to them that it is frustrating for a
> >> customer to see the salad or meat they want, see an employee right
> >> there, and not be able to get it. IN a business to sell food, why
> >> refuse to sell it *to them?
>
> >> One night, after work, we went to Dairy Queen to get a milk shake. We
> >> hurried to get there, but they were closed already. One lady got out
> >> to go read the time on the door so that we could try and get their
> >> earlier next time. The manager came to the door, let us in, and made
> >> the milkshakes. My coworkers were completely impressed and now
> >> understood what it was like to get good service late at night. They
> >> were much better after that. It really helped them to see it from the
> >> customer's point of view.
>
> > Cool story. *Coincidentally enough, I was in a restaurant a few days
> > ago and commented that the servers tend to be on the young side,
> > with not a lot of experience eating out, so they'd know what good
> > service (or bad) was. *Some restaurants don't do enough to make
> > them understand.
>
> > nancy
>
> And some are so compound stupid that they don't know that they don't know
> that the better they are at serving, the better their tip is. *They think
> they get paid and tipped for just being there.
>

Not all servers earn tips. My story above was about deli clerks. We
can get fired for accepting a tip. We're supposed to provide good
service because that is our job.

> wrote in message
...
On Aug 2, 10:06 am, "Steve B" > wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>
> news:KEC5o.28589$X%4.20078@hurricane...
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> For several years, my deli manager has taken us out to eat once a year
> >> with her bonus money as a way to say thank you. One restaurant we went
> >> to was very expensive, but the service not so great. So, we actually
> >> had a discussion of service while at the dinner.
>
> >> Years ago, I had two coworkers who had very poor customer service
> >> attitude. They could help a customer with an order just fine. But at
> >> night, when closing up, they would turn out the lights early, and tell
> >> people we were closed if somebody tried to order something. They knew
> >> not to do it in front of me, but I knew they did it when I wasn't
> >> there. I tried to explain to them that it is frustrating for a
> >> customer to see the salad or meat they want, see an employee right
> >> there, and not be able to get it. IN a business to sell food, why
> >> refuse to sell it to them?
>
> >> One night, after work, we went to Dairy Queen to get a milk shake. We
> >> hurried to get there, but they were closed already. One lady got out
> >> to go read the time on the door so that we could try and get their
> >> earlier next time. The manager came to the door, let us in, and made
> >> the milkshakes. My coworkers were completely impressed and now
> >> understood what it was like to get good service late at night. They
> >> were much better after that. It really helped them to see it from the
> >> customer's point of view.
>
> > Cool story. Coincidentally enough, I was in a restaurant a few days
> > ago and commented that the servers tend to be on the young side,
> > with not a lot of experience eating out, so they'd know what good
> > service (or bad) was. Some restaurants don't do enough to make
> > them understand.
>
> > nancy
>
> And some are so compound stupid that they don't know that they don't know
> that the better they are at serving, the better their tip is. They think
> they get paid and tipped for just being there.
>

Not all servers earn tips. My story above was about deli clerks. We
can get fired for accepting a tip. We're supposed to provide good
service because that is our job.

reply: People can get fired for taking tips? If I knew that, I would not
patronize the place. And I would tell the owner why.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"ImStillMags" wrote
ImStillMags wrote:

> One is a breakfast and lunch 'deli' in a downtown office area.
> One is a quick service (not fast food) breakfast, lunch and dinner
> 'blue collar' fare joint in an industrial park area.

>One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
> elegant bar.

The first 2 deal with location and can be instant cash makers with the right
spot and reasonably cheap food. If you can get the customer seated and with
food in 15 mins, it works. Breakfast/Lunch folks do not have time to wait
longer. You will lose to a greasy spoon with poor food that can fit their
time allowance if you can't be fast.

Most blue collar workers get max 1 hour lunch. If you are a 15 min drive,
you will at most see a group pickup for the rest. Price point is if they
can't get a meal for 5$ total, they will drive to McDonalds.

"ImStillMags" > wrote
>
> One is a breakfast and lunch 'deli' in a downtown office area.
>
> One is a quick service (not fast food) breakfast, lunch and dinner
> 'blue collar' fare joint in an industrial park area.
>
> One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
> elegant bar.
>


Different rules apply, different expectations too.

In the first two, you have to make you money in five days. Unless you
build a fantastic reputation for something special, people are not going to
go to those areas for a meal that can be had closer to home or where they
are shopping.

I pass a place every day that is like your number 2 concept. It started
about 12 years ago and has had at least five owners in that time. When I
pass in the morning, they have two customers at 6:30 while the convenience
store and gas station is selling coffee and snacks to 10 or 20 people at a
time. I've only ever stopped at this place once for a bagel and coffee
and my wife and I were the only ones in there. They have good location,
plenty of easy parking. reasonably priced, food, but very few customers.
The food and décor are OK, but nothing special about them at all.

In both the #1 and #2, I'd expect quick service, reasonable prices if you
want me to come in for lunch every day. You can dress up a ham sandwich
only so far and if every place around is 5.95 you'll struggle to charge 6.95
unless it really is better. What are you going to do to tempt me? Or to
get me to spend more than usual for lunch? Or to take extra time?

The places above I look at as "I need to eat and you fill a need" rather
than a destination for a special meal. Market conditions vary so be sure
I'm not going to comment if you have the potential customer base or not.
Most people I know go to the modest priced places every day, but the higher
priced only once a month or so. All that said, some seem to be little gold
mines in the right place with a loyal base.

For breakfast, I want quick and reasonably priced unless I'm on vacation or
taking a leisurely day for a special meal. There is a diner in RI that
serves standard far all week, but Sunday the menu changes to things like
lobster omelets and other specialties. The line goes outside.
http://www.judysbook.com/cities/pawt...dern_Diner.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyi/36397656/

#3 sounds like more of that place for a special lunch or upscale dinner.
There are people that go to Applebees and the like a couple of times a week
and you can get some of that crowd. I'd have higher expectations on food
and service. I rarely go to a restaurant bar so that is not an attraction
for me. Done right, it is a money maker though.

I'd be willing to pay a couple of dollars more than the chain places if the
food and atmosphere is better. I'd rather go to a good local place than a
chain.

On Aug 1, 9:18 am, ImStillMags > wrote:
>
> One is a breakfast and lunch 'deli' in a downtown office area.

I worked many years in a downtown office area. Almost never ate
breakfast there. I have no idea what would make a breakfast place
attractive.

Ate lunch out every day, usually Japanese or Chinese though the
neighborhood did have a taco joint and a sandwich place. I'd expect a
lunch deli to attract some business but sandwich making would have to
be fast and a selection of soups would be mandatory. Don't locate it
near a Subway--whatever their faults they are fast.

> One is a quick service (not fast food) breakfast, lunch and dinner
> 'blue collar' fare joint in an industrial park area.
>
Here the competition is the brown bag and McD's. The menu would need
to be quite different from that, and speed of service would be
important. Dinner offerings would have to be extraordinary to attract
evening business to the location.

> One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
> elegant bar.
>
Completely different kettle of fish from the others. I have no idea
what 'southern comforts' means. If it means New Orleans, I personally
think Creole/Cajun food has a quite limited appeal. If it means fried
chicken and cornbread, I don't equate that with an elegant bar. -
aem

> I'd love to hear your thoughts on these concepts.....to see how they
> jibe with mine.

I wouldn't invest in any of these. Then again, short of fine dining/
celebrity chef I don't know what restaurant I would invest iin. -
aem

aem wrote:

>> One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
>> elegant bar.
>>
> Completely different kettle of fish from the others. I have no idea
> what 'southern comforts' means. If it means New Orleans, I personally
> think Creole/Cajun food has a quite limited appeal. If it means fried
> chicken and cornbread, I don't equate that with an elegant bar. -

I think she was referring to someplace like this:

http://www.highlandsbarandgrill.com/

Bob

On Aug 2, 11:56 am, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote:
> aem wrote:
> >> One is a more upscale 'southern comforts' dinner house with an
> >> elegant bar.
>
> > Completely different kettle of fish from the others. I have no idea
> > what 'southern comforts' means. If it means New Orleans, I personally
> > think Creole/Cajun food has a quite limited appeal. If it means fried
> > chicken and cornbread, I don't equate that with an elegant bar. -
>
> I think she was referring to someplace like this:
>
> http://www.highlandsbarandgrill.com/
>
Yabbut, besides the skill of the chef the attractiveness of that menu
is largely derived from the local origins of the seafood and produce.
ImStillMags is in Seattle, I think, so how can she reproduce 'southern
comforts' in the PNW? -aem