blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:54:25 -0800, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> > blake wrote:
> >
> >> bob's plan seems more than a little creepy to me.
> >
> > Is it too Japanese?
> >
> > Bob
>
> or you could probably say british.
>
> though formal track systems are illegal in most places, they still exist
> informally. there's enough sorting out occurring there.

That's true. The paperwork is just different
>
> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources are
> 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
> regardless. the non-gifted need whatever the can get, at a time when
> someone may actually paying some attention to them.

Actually a lot of genuinely 'gifted' students don't make out well at
all. They get bored in a 'normal' classroom setting. After years of
that, many just give up and don't bother to use their abilities at all.
Genuinely gifted students need a different setting. In the same way
those with genuine learning disabilities also need a different setting
in order to do their best. State-run (public) schools rarely have the
resources to give either group what is needed most.


>
> and to be completely cynical, a poor labor market isn't going be made any
> better with a new flood of non-skilled workers.
>
> your pal,
> blake

That's true of course. Unfortunately, vocational education in the US is
often viewed as only for the 'losers'. It's often less true in parts of
Europe. Someone who wants to be a BMW mechanic will be trained by BMW at
the secondary school level. That vocational training is a valuable
option for those who don't need or want a classic university education.

blake wrote:

> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources
> are 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
> regardless.

Oh? I had a high-school classmate named Cleveland. Cleveland was a bright
guy who'd been placed in all the college-prep classes and who had very good
grades. He was affable, hard-working, and well-liked, but his family was
poverty-stricken. When Cleveland graduated he couldn't afford college; he
couldn't move out of the area without having a guaranteed job waiting for
him, and there were no four-year colleges with adequate scholarships in the
area. He ended up in a dead-end job, albeit happily married.

What did George W. Bush ever do to *deserve* a Yale education, when
Cleveland was a better person than Dubya in every way?

Bob

"blake murphy" > wrote
>
> nope. but when there is a gun or a knife incident at a local school, it
> makes the news. if it happened every day, it would not.
>

News people love that stuff. A car crashed in front of a school at 2:00 AM
on a Saturday. If the kids were there many could have been killed. Or an
airplane crash lands at 6 AM in July. OMG! if the kids were at recess they
would have been killed!

Arri London wrote:
>
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:54:25 -0800, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>
>>> blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> bob's plan seems more than a little creepy to me.
>>> Is it too Japanese?
>>>
>>> Bob
>> or you could probably say british.
>>
>> though formal track systems are illegal in most places, they still exist
>> informally. there's enough sorting out occurring there.
>
> That's true. The paperwork is just different
>> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources are
>> 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
>> regardless. the non-gifted need whatever the can get, at a time when
>> someone may actually paying some attention to them.
>
> Actually a lot of genuinely 'gifted' students don't make out well at
> all. They get bored in a 'normal' classroom setting. After years of
> that, many just give up and don't bother to use their abilities at all.
> Genuinely gifted students need a different setting. In the same way
> those with genuine learning disabilities also need a different setting
> in order to do their best. State-run (public) schools rarely have the
> resources to give either group what is needed most.
>
>
>> and to be completely cynical, a poor labor market isn't going be made any
>> better with a new flood of non-skilled workers.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> That's true of course. Unfortunately, vocational education in the US is
> often viewed as only for the 'losers'. It's often less true in parts of
> Europe. Someone who wants to be a BMW mechanic will be trained by BMW at
> the secondary school level. That vocational training is a valuable
> option for those who don't need or want a classic university education.

Yup. I know that scenario altogether too well. I will add that
the gifted ones who do well tend to be those who are "squeaky
wheels". If you are gifted and quiet, you might just be ignored....

--
Jean B.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. one reason why
>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
>
> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? Seems to me that if
> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> personnel and their metal detectors.

chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
these days.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 23:03:34 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote
>>
>> nope. but when there is a gun or a knife incident at a local school, it
>> makes the news. if it happened every day, it would not.
>>
>
> News people love that stuff. A car crashed in front of a school at 2:00 AM
> on a Saturday. If the kids were there many could have been killed. Or an
> airplane crash lands at 6 AM in July. OMG! if the kids were at recess they
> would have been killed!

your shampoo could be killing you! story at eleven.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 14:39:48 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> though formal track systems are illegal in most places, they still exist
>> informally. there's enough sorting out occurring there.
>>
>> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources are
>> 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
>> regardless. the non-gifted need whatever the can get, at a time when
>> someone may actually paying some attention to them.
>
> I wouldn't bet that all the gifted people are going to succeed no matter
> what. They need someone to recognize and to nurture their natural
> talents. When they boost the gifted people there is likely to be a
> greater return. The returns are much lower at the other end of the
> scale. My wife used to work at a school for the "trainably mentally
> retarded". They had a low student-teacher ratio so that they teachers
> had lots of time to deal with each student. They also needed teaching
> assistants to help them. There were a lot of highly dedicated teachers
> in that school, but there was little chance that any of those kids would
> ever amount to much.
>
> When you have students who take a whole term to learn how to print their
> first name and then another term to learn to print their last name you
> have to wonder if it is even worth sending them to school.

well, we have different outlooks here. you're talking about utility to the
state (or society, if you prefer) and i'm talking about utility to the
individual.

and, sure, not all gifted people 'succeed' (depending on your definition of
'success'). but i'm thinking most will do better than scrape by. the
definitely ungifted people will need help to do even that.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:42:15 -0700, Arri London wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:54:25 -0800, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>
>>> blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> bob's plan seems more than a little creepy to me.
>>>
>>> Is it too Japanese?
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> or you could probably say british.
>>
>> though formal track systems are illegal in most places, they still exist
>> informally. there's enough sorting out occurring there.
>
> That's true. The paperwork is just different
>>
>> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources are
>> 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
>> regardless. the non-gifted need whatever the can get, at a time when
>> someone may actually paying some attention to them.
>
> Actually a lot of genuinely 'gifted' students don't make out well at
> all. They get bored in a 'normal' classroom setting. After years of
> that, many just give up and don't bother to use their abilities at all.
> Genuinely gifted students need a different setting. In the same way
> those with genuine learning disabilities also need a different setting
> in order to do their best. State-run (public) schools rarely have the
> resources to give either group what is needed most.
>
>>
>> and to be completely cynical, a poor labor market isn't going be made any
>> better with a new flood of non-skilled workers.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> That's true of course. Unfortunately, vocational education in the US is
> often viewed as only for the 'losers'. It's often less true in parts of
> Europe. Someone who wants to be a BMW mechanic will be trained by BMW at
> the secondary school level. That vocational training is a valuable
> option for those who don't need or want a classic university education.

i don't disagree with most of what you're saying at all. the u.s. could
definitely do more in partnerships with industry such as you describe with
BMW. ('industry' is probably the wrong word here. 'skilled craftsmen'?)

it sometimes seems public schools strike a bland middle course that bores
the gifted and decidedly non-gifted as well.

in a lot of ways, the public schools are like the army. they do pretty
well and are efficient with the hump of the bell curve, not so well with
the trailing edges at the ends. but the army can refuse you, if, say, you
take a size sixteen shoe. the public schools take all comers (as i think
they should).

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:17:17 -0800, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> blake wrote:
>
>> i hear a lot of 'gifted' people making argument that too many resources
>> are 'wasted' on the non-gifted. well, 'gifted' people are gonna make out
>> regardless.
>
> Oh? I had a high-school classmate named Cleveland. Cleveland was a bright
> guy who'd been placed in all the college-prep classes and who had very good
> grades. He was affable, hard-working, and well-liked, but his family was
> poverty-stricken. When Cleveland graduated he couldn't afford college; he
> couldn't move out of the area without having a guaranteed job waiting for
> him, and there were no four-year colleges with adequate scholarships in the
> area. He ended up in a dead-end job, albeit happily married.
>
> What did George W. Bush ever do to *deserve* a Yale education, when
> Cleveland was a better person than Dubya in every way?
>
> Bob

so? if cleveland made a happy marriage for himself, i'd say he did o.k.

what i'm saying is that gifted people have their own inner resources and
other resources to draw on.

does he describe his job as 'dead-end,' or is that you?

your pal,
blake

On Mar 5, 12:29*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> > blake murphy wrote:
>
> >> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. *one reason why
> >> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
>
> > Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> > D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? *Seems to me that if
> > they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> > personnel and their metal detectors.
>
> chicken and egg? *christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> these days.

Really? I can't recall the last time I went through one. Probably in
1997, the
last time I was on an airplane.

Cindy Hamilton

In article
>,
Cindy Hamilton > wrote:

> On Mar 5, 12:29*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> > On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > blake murphy wrote:
> >
> > >> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. *one reason
> > >> why
> > >> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
> >
> > > Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> > > D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? *Seems to me that if
> > > they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> > > personnel and their metal detectors.
> >
> > chicken and egg? *christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> > these days.
>
> Really? I can't recall the last time I went through one. Probably in
> 1997, the
> last time I was on an airplane.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I go thru them at the court house when I get tagged for jury duty...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

On Mar 5, 3:37*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 5, 12:29*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> > > On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > > blake murphy wrote:
>
> > > >> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. *one reason
> > > >> why
> > > >> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
>
> > > > Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> > > > D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? *Seems to me that if
> > > > they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> > > > personnel and their metal detectors.
>
> > > chicken and egg? *christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> > > these days.
>
> > Really? *I can't recall the last time I went through one. *Probably in
> > 1997, the
> > last time I was on an airplane.
>
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> I go thru them at the court house when I get tagged for jury duty...

I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
pretty sure it was before 1997. It's possible that my name came
out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.

Cindy

In article
>,
Cindy Hamilton > wrote:

> On Mar 5, 3:37*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 5, 12:29*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > > > blake murphy wrote:
> >
> > > > >> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. *one
> > > > >> reason
> > > > >> why
> > > > >> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
> >
> > > > > Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem
> > > > > at
> > > > > D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? *Seems to me that if
> > > > > they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> > > > > personnel and their metal detectors.
> >
> > > > chicken and egg? *christ, you go through a metal detector almost
> > > > anywhere
> > > > these days.
> >
> > > Really? *I can't recall the last time I went through one. *Probably in
> > > 1997, the
> > > last time I was on an airplane.
> >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > I go thru them at the court house when I get tagged for jury duty...
>
> I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
> pretty sure it was before 1997. It's possible that my name came
> out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
> have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
> in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.
>
> Cindy

You are lucky. I tend to get tagged at least once per year and the time
before last, I got chosen to serve. It was not an enjoyable
experience...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

blake murphy wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. one reason why
>>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
>> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
>> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? Seems to me that if
>> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
>> personnel and their metal detectors.
>
> chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> these days.

The last time I went through a metal detector was at an airport a year
and a half ago. We don't have metal detectors to go into schools and
government buildings here.

Omelet wrote:
> In article
> >,
> Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
>> On Mar 5, 3:37 pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 12:29 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>>>>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. one
>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
>>>>>> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? Seems to me that if
>>>>>> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
>>>>>> personnel and their metal detectors.
>>>>> chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost
>>>>> anywhere
>>>>> these days.
>>>> Really? I can't recall the last time I went through one. Probably in
>>>> 1997, the
>>>> last time I was on an airplane.
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>> I go thru them at the court house when I get tagged for jury duty...
>> I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
>> pretty sure it was before 1997. It's possible that my name came
>> out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
>> have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
>> in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.
>>
>> Cindy
>
> You are lucky. I tend to get tagged at least once per year and the time
> before last, I got chosen to serve. It was not an enjoyable
> experience...


I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.

On 2010-03-05, Dave Smith > wrote:

> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.

Where you live? Nosepick, UT?

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2010-03-05, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
>> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.
>
> Where you live? Nosepick, UT?
>

Are you serious? In a discussion about how there is no problem with guns
and knives .... because there are metal detectors, you seem surprised
that there is civilized country where such things are not necessary. If
guns and knives were not a problem there would be no need for the
detectors.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:17:28 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.

City Hall, courts etc are just a mini version of the airport... metal
detectors, bags through the x-ray machine - no difference here.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:49:32 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

> I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
> pretty sure it was before 1997. It's possible that my name came
> out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
> have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
> in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.

Everyone in public service is on the list (at the very least) in
theory. We're public servants and it's one of our civic duties. My
mother knew she would be called within months of changing job sites
and they cycled through my school every two years. If Om's employer
gives her a full day's pay for jury duty, I'm not surprised she's on
the list too.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
> > On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >> blake murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. one reason why
> >>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
> >> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> >> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? Seems to me that if
> >> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> >> personnel and their metal detectors.
> >
> > chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> > these days.
>
> The last time I went through a metal detector was at an airport a year
> and a half ago. We don't have metal detectors to go into schools and
> government buildings here.

Oh man, we sure do here! I went to pay a lousy parking ticket in Austin
once and had to go thru a scanner thingy, and have my purse searched!
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> > You are lucky. I tend to get tagged at least once per year and the time
> > before last, I got chosen to serve. It was not an enjoyable
> > experience...
>
>
> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.

Metal detector at the door and an officer manning a wand scanner for
those that had problems passing.

The only jury duty call that really ****es me off is federal grand jury
summons. On call ever monday for two months. Who the hell can really
commit to that if they have a regular job? That is utter bullshit.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:49:32 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> > I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
> > pretty sure it was before 1997. It's possible that my name came
> > out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
> > have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
> > in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.
>
> Everyone in public service is on the list (at the very least) in
> theory. We're public servants and it's one of our civic duties. My
> mother knew she would be called within months of changing job sites
> and they cycled through my school every two years. If Om's employer
> gives her a full day's pay for jury duty, I'm not surprised she's on
> the list too.

My employer did not pay for jury duty because I worked night shifts.
They figured I could spend the entire day in court (until 5pm) and still
work a full night shift with no effort. 2200 pm to 0630 am. I ended up
having to burn vacation time.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:42:15 -0700, Arri London wrote:
>
>
<snip>

> >
> > That's true of course. Unfortunately, vocational education in the US is
> > often viewed as only for the 'losers'. It's often less true in parts of
> > Europe. Someone who wants to be a BMW mechanic will be trained by BMW at
> > the secondary school level. That vocational training is a valuable
> > option for those who don't need or want a classic university education.
>
> i don't disagree with most of what you're saying at all. the u.s. could
> definitely do more in partnerships with industry such as you describe with
> BMW. ('industry' is probably the wrong word here. 'skilled craftsmen'?)

Either way. Employers should be part of the educational process. They
are the ones who complain that students come out of schools lacking work
skills. You want work skills? Then provide them. It's not that hard.

>
> it sometimes seems public schools strike a bland middle course that bores
> the gifted and decidedly non-gifted as well.

They don't really have a choice do they? They must 'mainstream'
everyone, even if some just cannot benefit from that type of education.

>
> in a lot of ways, the public schools are like the army. they do pretty
> well and are efficient with the hump of the bell curve, not so well with
> the trailing edges at the ends. but the army can refuse you, if, say, you
> take a size sixteen shoe. the public schools take all comers (as i think
> they should).

That's it right there. Much of any (inner city) teacher's time is spent
being a psychiatrist, social worker, special needs teacher or parole
officer. In the UK, a state-run school can sometimes refuse students but
only if places are available at other schools within the same district.
Moving to a school outside the district is more difficult.

Omelet wrote:

>> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
>> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.
>
> Metal detector at the door and an officer manning a wand scanner for
> those that had problems passing.
>
> The only jury duty call that really ****es me off is federal grand jury
> summons. On call ever monday for two months. Who the hell can really
> commit to that if they have a regular job? That is utter bullshit.


I was fortunate. Working in law enforcement, I was exempt and so was my
wife. Now that I am retired, we lost that exemption, but, so far, I have
not been called. I have spent enough time in court to know how boring it
can be, and I was in provincial court where the pleas and adjournments
were dealt with at the beginning and subsequent trials rarely lasted
more than a half hour. I would hate to have to sit through a trial that
lasted months.

blake wrote:

> i'm thinking most will do better than scrape by. the definitely ungifted
> people will need help to do even that.

But the definitely ungifted people can aspire to someday live on a farm in
upstate New York, can't they?

Bob

Over 800 posts! OMG!

:-)

John Kuthe...

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote
>> chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
>> these days.
>
> Really? I can't recall the last time I went through one. Probably in
> 1997, the
> last time I was on an airplane.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Since 9/11 they have popped up at many museums and historical sites. In
Europe also.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:33:32 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

> Metal detector at the door and an officer manning a wand scanner for
> those that had problems passing.
>
> The only jury duty call that really ****es me off is federal grand jury
> summons. On call ever monday for two months. Who the hell can really
> commit to that if they have a regular job? That is utter bullshit.

Huh, interesting. That's a big difference between your state and
mine. With us, it's one week on call (by telephone or computer), and
then we get a "pass" for a year.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mar 5, 2:17*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
> >> On Mar 5, 3:37 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> >,
> >>> *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
> >>>> On Mar 5, 12:29 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>>> blake murphy wrote:
> >>>>>>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. *one
> >>>>>>> reason
> >>>>>>> why
> >>>>>>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
> >>>>>> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem
> >>>>>> at
> >>>>>> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? *Seems to me that if
> >>>>>> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> >>>>>> personnel and their metal detectors.
> >>>>> chicken and egg? *christ, you go through a metal detector almost
> >>>>> anywhere
> >>>>> these days.
> >>>> Really? *I can't recall the last time I went through one. *Probably in
> >>>> 1997, the
> >>>> last time I was on an airplane.
> >>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>> I go thru them at the court house when I get tagged for jury duty...
> >> I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
> >> pretty sure it was before 1997. *It's possible that my name came
> >> out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
> >> have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
> >> in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.
>
> >> Cindy
>
> > You are lucky. *I tend to get tagged at least once per year and the time
> > before last, I got chosen to serve. *It was not an enjoyable
> > experience...
>
> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. *The only time there was metal
> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.

We've had metal detectors at our courthouses for at least 10 years.
I've been called for jury duty 3 times since 1994 at two different
courthouses, and I know I've gone through metal detectors at both
locations.

sf wrote:

>> The only jury duty call that really ****es me off is federal grand jury
>> summons. On call ever monday for two months. Who the hell can really
>> commit to that if they have a regular job? That is utter bullshit.
>
> Huh, interesting. That's a big difference between your state and
> mine. With us, it's one week on call (by telephone or computer), and
> then we get a "pass" for a year.

Not so: If you get called for FEDERAL jury duty in California, it's exactly
like Om said. But federal juries are few and far between. I get called for
county jury duty about once a year, but I've never been called for federal
jury duty.

Bob

On Mar 5, 3:35*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
> *sf > wrote:
> > On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:49:32 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
>
> > > I can't remember how long it's been since I had to report, but I'm
> > > pretty sure it was before 1997. *It's possible that my name came
> > > out of the hat since then, but we've got "phone in and see if you
> > > have to report", and I can remember at least once that I phoned
> > > in and they said "No jurors this week", and that was that.
>
> > Everyone in public service is on the list (at the very least) in
> > theory. *We're public servants and it's one of our civic duties. *My
> > mother knew she would be called within months of changing job sites
> > and they cycled through my school every two years. *If Om's employer
> > gives her a full day's pay for jury duty, I'm not surprised she's on
> > the list too.
>
> My employer did not pay for jury duty because I worked night shifts.
> They figured I could spend the entire day in court (until 5pm) and still
> work a full night shift with no effort. 2200 pm to 0630 am. I ended up
> having to burn vacation time.
> --

Yikes.

Our contract says that we have to come to work if we finish jury duty
before our shift is over. But the managers have always been reasonable
and just given us the day off if we went to jury duty. Obviously, it
would be unreasonable to do a full day at court and then a full day at
work.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:47:19 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> I was fortunate. Working in law enforcement, I was exempt and so was my
> wife. Now that I am retired, we lost that exemption, but, so far, I have
> not been called.

Exempt? Interesting! Here in California, public servants are paid
their full daily rate for any time spent waiting to be called for jury
duty or actually serving on a jury. I was called to jury duty almost
immediately after my retirement became formal, but I expect/hope that
I will not be called as much now that I'm officially retired.

> I have spent enough time in court to know how boring it
> can be,

How can you say it's boring? Lawyers on both sides can make the most
boring of cases sound totally interesting.

> and I was in provincial court where the pleas and adjournments
> were dealt with at the beginning and subsequent trials rarely lasted
> more than a half hour.

Again, interesting. I have yet to actually serve on a jury although
I've been in "the box". I've spent days not even being close to being
called, but every time a lawyer talked to the jury and potential jury
pool... they made it very interesting and I was eager to serve.

> I would hate to have to sit through a trial that lasted months.

My husband has been on jurys that went for several days (at least a
week) and in the end he really felt like he had done what was right.

Although he was self employed at the time, he felt it was his civic
duty/obligation to serve - and he considered the litigant's time as an
important as his.

Frankly, I wouldn't want anybody with your negative attitude to serve
on the jury of any trial I was unfortunate enough to be forced to be
part of.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:35:41 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

> My employer did not pay for jury duty because I worked night shifts.
> They figured I could spend the entire day in court (until 5pm) and still
> work a full night shift with no effort. 2200 pm to 0630 am. I ended up
> having to burn vacation time.

They did that? What a cop out! I'm sorry Om. You don't need to be
treated that way.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:31:40 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

> In article > ,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > blake murphy wrote:
> > > On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:28:53 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
> > >
> > >> blake murphy wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> metal detectors are fairly common in d.c schools, i think. one reason why
> > >>> there aren't many knife or gun incidents.
> > >> Okay..... just so I understand.... guns and knives are not a problem at
> > >> D.C. schools because they have metal detectors? Seems to me that if
> > >> they had not been a problem there would be no need for security
> > >> personnel and their metal detectors.
> > >
> > > chicken and egg? christ, you go through a metal detector almost anywhere
> > > these days.
> >
> > The last time I went through a metal detector was at an airport a year
> > and a half ago. We don't have metal detectors to go into schools and
> > government buildings here.
>
> Oh man, we sure do here! I went to pay a lousy parking ticket in Austin
> once and had to go thru a scanner thingy, and have my purse searched!

That's normal for public buildings here. Purse search is as normal as
an x-ray or wanding.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 20:35:54 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> blake wrote:
>
> > i'm thinking most will do better than scrape by. the definitely ungifted
> > people will need help to do even that.
>
> But the definitely ungifted people can aspire to someday live on a farm in
> upstate New York, can't they?
>
Everyone here can count on your saying how much below you think the
"ungifted" are from you on the "they deserve to be alive" scale. They
should also be denied any semblance of an education because *you* know
they will never accomplish anything. So - where are the gas chambers
you want them sent to? Have you organized transportation? You, of
all people, should know they aren't smart enough to get there on their
own.

How nice it is to feel so superior.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf wrote:

> How nice it is to feel so superior.

Eff'n A! It totally r0xx0rz.

Bob

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> >> I used to go to court 4-5 times a month. The only time there was metal
> >> detectors on the court house was when the Homolka trial was going on.
> >
> > Metal detector at the door and an officer manning a wand scanner for
> > those that had problems passing.
> >
> > The only jury duty call that really ****es me off is federal grand jury
> > summons. On call ever monday for two months. Who the hell can really
> > commit to that if they have a regular job? That is utter bullshit.
>
>
> I was fortunate. Working in law enforcement, I was exempt and so was my
> wife. Now that I am retired, we lost that exemption, but, so far, I have
> not been called. I have spent enough time in court to know how boring it
> can be, and I was in provincial court where the pleas and adjournments
> were dealt with at the beginning and subsequent trials rarely lasted
> more than a half hour. I would hate to have to sit through a trial that
> lasted months.

Same here. I'd have to wear sunglasses so they could not tell when I
dozed off. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> > My employer did not pay for jury duty because I worked night shifts.
> > They figured I could spend the entire day in court (until 5pm) and still
> > work a full night shift with no effort. 2200 pm to 0630 am. I ended up
> > having to burn vacation time.
> > --
>
> Yikes.
>
> Our contract says that we have to come to work if we finish jury duty
> before our shift is over. But the managers have always been reasonable
> and just given us the day off if we went to jury duty. Obviously, it
> would be unreasonable to do a full day at court and then a full day at
> work.

Some employers are cheap ass holes...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:35:41 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> > My employer did not pay for jury duty because I worked night shifts.
> > They figured I could spend the entire day in court (until 5pm) and still
> > work a full night shift with no effort. 2200 pm to 0630 am. I ended up
> > having to burn vacation time.
>
> They did that? What a cop out! I'm sorry Om. You don't need to be
> treated that way.

Yes, they did. I'm wondering if I would have any legal recourse... But
it's really not worth pursuing. My immediate supervisor did give me the
four days off that the trial lasted and I simply burned personal
vacation time. I'm just glad it was a short trial.
The co-workers that had to pull my shifts were understanding and ok with
it as everybody's gotta do their civil duty!

The only time I attempted to opt out of the call was that 2 month
federal summons. I got excused using a medical excuse. There was no way
I could commit to 2 months of jury duty working night shifts...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 20:35:54 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
> > blake wrote:
> >
> > > i'm thinking most will do better than scrape by. the definitely ungifted
> > > people will need help to do even that.
> >
> > But the definitely ungifted people can aspire to someday live on a farm in
> > upstate New York, can't they?
> >
> Everyone here can count on your saying how much below you think the
> "ungifted" are from you on the "they deserve to be alive" scale. They
> should also be denied any semblance of an education because *you* know
> they will never accomplish anything. So - where are the gas chambers
> you want them sent to? Have you organized transportation? You, of
> all people, should know they aren't smart enough to get there on their
> own.
>
> How nice it is to feel so superior.

<snicker> Nice one Barb'...
I think tho' that he was referring to Sheldon in that second paragraph.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe: