I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
that crap.

When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
had a water softener at his house. I always thought
the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
undrinkable.

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:51:19 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
>but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
>dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
>I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>that crap.
>
>When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>had a water softener at his house. I always thought
>the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
>undrinkable.

Softened water is in no way filtered water nore does it remove
bacteria, likely needed a pre filter for removing sediment and the
entire system needed to be shocked to disinfect the system... most
everyone has dirty pipes. Should have replaced the entire water
softener, the new ones with modern microprocessors instead of thye old
style mechanical timers are far more efficient, they use half as much
salt. And hardly anyone with a water softener drinks the softened
water, there's is nothing wrong with it when functioning properly but
people who can afford a softener install an RO filter too. When water
tastes strange, has strange odors, and strange appearance, a hydro
specialist should be consulted... all those problems can be easily
rectified.

Mark Thorson > wrote in :

> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
> but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> that crap.


The "black muck" was most likely carbon, which is used in most filters.

I also use it to filter my ethanol, before I turn it into all sorts of
wonderful smooth booze.



>
> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> had a water softener at his house. I always thought
> the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
> undrinkable.
>


One reason I now have a AWG (atmospheric water generator).

With 7 sorts of filters on it, the water coming out of the spout is just
that, water... no additives, no chemicals. It's even cleaner than
rainwater.

I can actually hook it up to the town water supply and filter that, but
the filters will only last about 1/3 of the time as they are now. That's
because they have sooooooooooo much more crap to filter out of the town
"drinking water".



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Mary had a little lamb
her father shot it dead.
Now it goes to school with her
between two chunks of bread.

PLucas wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson > wrote in :
>
> > I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> > a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
> > but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
> > dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> > at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
> > I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> > that crap.
>
> The "black muck" was most likely carbon, which is used in most filters.

But carbon is usually a replacable cartridge, not a layer
under the resin beads, because the carbon gets used up.
The resin beads are recharged with a brine and reuseable
for many cycles.

Mark Thorson wrote:
> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
> but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> that crap.
>
> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> had a water softener at his house. I always thought
> the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
> undrinkable.

The proper setup is to use softened water for washing, the hard water for
drinking, but it may still need filtering of some sort. Softened water is
usually a bit higher in sodium content and avoided for that reason.

Water should be tested to determine what is really needed. Many have a
sediment filter as the first step to remove particulates, rust, sand, and so
forth. The softener is designed to removed the dissolved solids. Can't say
what the back much was, but it may have well been a buildup of gunk from
years of use. If you get a buildup of minerals on the toilet bowls, you are
drinking that stuff too if not removed first. That does not mean it is
harmful though.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> Mark Thorson wrote:

> > When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> > had a water softener at his house. I always thought
> > the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
> > undrinkable.
>
> The proper setup is to use softened water for washing, the hard water for
> drinking, but it may still need filtering of some sort.

Soft water doesn't taste any better than the hard water it was made from.

> Softened water is
> usually a bit higher in sodium content and avoided for that reason.

If it isn't a whole lot higher, than you didn't need a water softener to
begin with. Hard water just means that there is calcium and magnesium
in there. That doesn't work well with soap. The water softener simply
replaces the calcium and magnesium with sodium.

> Water should be tested to determine what is really needed. Many have a
> sediment filter as the first step to remove particulates, rust, sand, and so
> forth. The softener is designed to removed the dissolved solids. Can't say
> what the back much was, but it may have well been a buildup of gunk from
> years of use. If you get a buildup of minerals on the toilet bowls, you are
> drinking that stuff too if not removed first. That does not mean it is
> harmful though.

In fact, people used to travel far and pay a whole lot of money for
"mineral water".

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:31:13 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>> > When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>> > had a water softener at his house. I always thought
>> > the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
>> > undrinkable.
>>
>> The proper setup is to use softened water for washing, the hard water for
>> drinking, but it may still need filtering of some sort.
>
>Soft water doesn't taste any better than the hard water it was made from.
>
>> Softened water is
>> usually a bit higher in sodium content and avoided for that reason.
>
>If it isn't a whole lot higher, than you didn't need a water softener to
>begin with. Hard water just means that there is calcium and magnesium
>in there. That doesn't work well with soap. The water softener simply
>replaces the calcium and magnesium with sodium.

Ignoranus douchebag.

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:51:19 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
>but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
>dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
>I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>that crap.
>
>When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>had a water softener at his house. I always thought
>the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
>undrinkable.

Ideally, softened water should only go to your water heater.

Softened water shouln't be used for cooking or drinking.
There's too much residual sodium in the water after softening.

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:39:44 -0700, "<RJ>" > wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:51:19 -0800, Mark Thorson >
>wrote:
>
>>I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>>a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
>>but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
>>dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>>at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
>>I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>>that crap.
>>
>>When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>>had a water softener at his house. I always thought
>>the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
>>undrinkable.
>
>Ideally, softened water should only go to your water heater.
>
>Softened water shouln't be used for cooking or drinking.
>There's too much residual sodium in the water after softening.
>
Imbecile.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
> but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> that crap.
>
> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> had a water softener at his house. I always thought
> the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
> undrinkable.

use potassium instead of salt. a bit more expensive, but leaves the sodium
taste out. an r/o as mentioned is ideal.

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:51:41 -0500, "skeeter" > wrote:

>
>"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>> a water softener. Actually, they're using the old tank
>> but replacing the head and the resin beads. As they were
>> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>> at the bottom of the tank. They didn't comment on that.
>> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>> that crap.
>>
>> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>> had a water softener at his house. I always thought
>> the water tasted terrible over there. Borderline
>> undrinkable.
>
>use potassium instead of salt. a bit more expensive, but leaves the sodium
>taste out.

Moroon.

On Jan 10, 1:51*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> that crap.
>
> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
> undrinkable.

You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. Soft water is best
for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. Drinking it is not the
recommended usage - I never use anything but kitchen/cold in my
cooking, either. I have to have a separate softener because the water
in my area is so hard.

N.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:54:37 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> wrote:

>On Jan 10, 1:51*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
>> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
>> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
>> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>> that crap.
>>
>> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
>> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
>> undrinkable.
>
>You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
>the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. Soft water is best
>for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. Drinking it is not the
>recommended usage -

Horsepucky. Water softeners do not add salt to water, in fact if
there is salt normally present in ones domestic water (common with
private wells) the softener will remove that salt too same time as
other hardness elements are removed. That water softeners add salt to
water is pure myth and a big pack of lies... the only time a water
softener can add salt is if it is malfunctioning, usually due to one
not performing periodic maintenence or it was never properly installed
to begin with, which is common with DIYers, who among other things
omit the flow check valves. The brine is used only during each
periodic cycle to wash the pellets of minerals and then is flushed out
as grey water... anyone who claims their water softener puts salt in
their water then so does their waste water enter their drinking water.
No brine enters the house plumbing. Only the water at hose bibs is
not softened (or otherwise treated/filtered), it's stupid to soften
water one will squirt on the ground to water plants same as it is to
waste ones filtering capacities treating water for say sediment/odors
that goes back onto the ground. Although some auto fanatics do have
an outside hose bib they use to wash their car to prevent spotting...
I bet Jay Leno uses sotened water for his cars first, before his
wife's baths.

>I never use anything but kitchen/cold in my
>cooking, either. I have to have a separate softener because the water
>in my area is so hard.
>

If you have hard water and not softening your kitchen cold water what
makes you think that water isn't just as hard. Water softeners do not
add anthing, they only take away... only the pinheaded ignoranuses
believe water softeners add salt.

Anyone in a hard water area and is using a hot water heater and is
heating their home with a hot water system and is not using a water
softener is very likely using twice as much fuel (and probably more)
to heat and will have extra repair bills due to mineral build up
inside all parts containing water.

Water softeners save more on cleaning products alone than they cost to
install and operate... not to mention labor and time saved.

On Jan 12, 1:23*pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:54:37 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Jan 10, 1:51*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> >> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
> >> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
> >> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> >> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
> >> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> >> that crap.
>
> >> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> >> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
> >> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
> >> undrinkable.
>
> >You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
> >the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. *Soft water is best
> >for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. *Drinking it is not the
> >recommended usage -
>
> Horsepucky. *Water softeners do not add salt to water

Of course they do. You must be thinking of reverse osmosis filters,
not water softeners. They exchange sodium for calcium and magnesium.
It was my job to fill the salt tank at the resort I worked at.

--Bryan

Bryan wrote:
>brooklyn1 wrote:
>>Nancy2 wrote:
>> >Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
>> >> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
>> >> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
>> >> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
>> >> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
>> >> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
>> >> that crap.
>>
>> >> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
>> >> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
>> >> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
>> >> undrinkable.
>>
>> >You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
>> >the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. *Soft water is best
>> >for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. *Drinking it is not the
>> >recommended usage -
>>
>> Horsepucky. *Water softeners do not add salt to water
>
>Of course they do. You must be thinking of reverse osmosis filters,
>not water softeners. They exchange sodium for calcium and magnesium.

Water softeners do not exchange minerals for salt. Brine enters the
softener tank only (in concentration set based on hardness testing and
at times set by a clock and gallons used, typically after every 3,000
gallons and in the middle of the night to prevent pressure drops), and
removes the minerals collected by the beads, and minerals and brine -
salt is a mineral - is flushed out as grey water... none of the grey
water enters the domestic water. Salt can only enter the water
system (along with the minerals) when the unit is malfunctioning. Also
many folks run a water softener for many years way past its
usefulness, they continue to feed it salt in greater adn great
quantity but it is no longer removing minerals because the beads that
attract minerals have been spent... all they are doing is wasting
money by dumping salt out as grey water. The life of a water softener
is about 10-15 years depending on model and water hardness. It really
doesn't pay to recharge the softener with new beads because all the
other parts are probably worn and/or ready to die and over time the
new softeners become more and more efficient. It's important to test
for water hardness regularly so that one can tell when recalibration
of brine concentration needs to be increased and when a point is
reached when the unit is no longer operating efficiently that the
price of the salt used is more than the cost of a new unit. When
water tastes awful or is stinkly or contains excessive bacteria that
is not the fault of the softener, softeners only remove minerals, they
do nothing to remove sediment, improve water taste, eliminate odors,
or in any way disinfect water.

>It was my job to fill the salt tank at the resort I worked at.

So, do you really think folks would pay good money to patronize a
resort if their water was loaded with salt?? duh

It was your job to shovel salt because OBVIOUSLY you're too stupid to
do anything more elaborate... what a moroon.

Many folks knock water softens by saying they make water salty, but
that is just ignorance and sour grapes, those are the cheapo peon
*******s who don't want to pay the dollars for a softener... and
usually poor schnooks who live in a dinky apt so they have no way to
dispose of the grey water anyway.

brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Bryan wrote:
> >brooklyn1 wrote:
> >> Horsepucky. Water softeners do not add salt to water
> >
> >Of course they do. You must be thinking of reverse osmosis filters,
> >not water softeners. They exchange sodium for calcium and magnesium.
>
> Water softeners do not exchange minerals for salt. Brine enters the
> softener tank only (in concentration set based on hardness testing and
> at times set by a clock and gallons used, typically after every 3,000
> gallons and in the middle of the night to prevent pressure drops), and
> removes the minerals collected by the beads, and minerals and brine -
> salt is a mineral - is flushed out as grey water... none of the grey
> water enters the domestic water. Salt can only enter the water
> system (along with the minerals) when the unit is malfunctioning. Also

The function of the brine is to displace the minerals
collected by the resin. Resins have functional groups
which can bind metals like iron and sodium. A recharged
resin will be holding sodium on those groups, and the
metals in water have higher affinity for those groups
than sodium, so they displace the sodium (which then
goes into the house water).

When the resin becomes loaded with metals, the brine
recharges the resin by displacing the metals with
sodium. Even though the metals have higher affinity
for the resin, you overcome that by using a much higher
concentration of sodium, i.e. the brine. Most of the
brine (along with the metals) is flushed to wastewater.
The sodium held by the recharged resin ends up in the
house water.

In article
>,
--Bryan > wrote:

> On Jan 12, 1:23*pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:

> > > wrote:
> > >On Jan 10, 1:51*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > >> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> > >> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
> > >> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
> > >> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> > >> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
> > >> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> > >> that crap.
> >
> > >> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> > >> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
> > >> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
> > >> undrinkable.
> >
> > >You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
> > >the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. *Soft water is best
> > >for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. *Drinking it is not the
> > >recommended usage -
> >
> > Horsepucky. *Water softeners do not add salt to water

When people talk about consuming salt, they are really referring to
"sodium". Some foods contain sodium, but most of the sodium we consume
comes from salt. Thus, the words "sodium" and "salt" are sometimes used
almost interchangeably when talking about diet.

> Of course they do.

For all intents and purposes, yes. Technically, no.

> You must be thinking of reverse osmosis filters,
> not water softeners. They exchange sodium for calcium and magnesium.
> It was my job to fill the salt tank at the resort I worked at.

The salt is where the water softener gets the sodium. Soft water has
more sodium than the hard water that went into the water softener.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Jan 12, 5:28*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Bryan > wrote:
> > On Jan 12, 1:23*pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > >On Jan 10, 1:51*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > > >> I'm watching Ask This Old House, and they're replacing
> > > >> a water softener. *Actually, they're using the old tank
> > > >> but replacing the head and the resin beads. *As they were
> > > >> dumping out the old beads, there was all this black muck
> > > >> at the bottom of the tank. *They didn't comment on that.
> > > >> I'd hate to think of my drinking water passing through
> > > >> that crap.
>
> > > >> When I was a kid, a friend of mine across the street
> > > >> had a water softener at his house. *I always thought
> > > >> the water tasted terrible over there. *Borderline
> > > >> undrinkable.
>
> > > >You're not supposed to drink soft water - usually, the setup excludes
> > > >the kitchen/cold water from the soft water system. *Soft water is best
> > > >for laundry, bathing, washing hair, etc. *Drinking it is not the
> > > >recommended usage -
>
> > > Horsepucky. *Water softeners do not add salt to water
>
> When people talk about consuming salt, they are really referring to
> "sodium". *Some foods contain sodium, but most of the sodium we consume
> comes from salt. *Thus, the words "sodium" and "salt" are sometimes used
> almost interchangeably when talking about diet.

And that is indeed what I did.
>
> > Of course they do. *
>
> For all intents and purposes, yes. *Technically, no.

You mean that there are no additional chloride ions added by the
softener, and that the sodium is in the form of carbonate, since it
has replaced the calcium or magnesium in their carbonate salts.
>
> > You must be thinking of reverse osmosis filters,
> > not water softeners. *They exchange sodium for calcium and magnesium.
> > It was my job to fill the salt tank at the resort I worked at.
>
> The salt is where the water softener gets the sodium. *Soft water has
> more sodium than the hard water that went into the water softener.
>
> --
> Dan Abel

--Bryan

> >I never use anything but kitchen/cold in my
> >cooking, either. *I have to have a separate softener because the water
> >in my area is so hard.
>
> If you have hard water and not softening your kitchen cold water what
> makes you think that water isn't just as hard. *Water softeners do not
> add anthing, they only take away... only the pinheaded ignoranuses
> believe water softeners add salt.
>

The kitchen cold IS hard; it is excluded from the system in the way
the pipes were run in my house - at the recommendation of the
commercial installer. Maybe you'd like to take up your ideas with the
installer.

I never said that softeners added salt. Your attribute is wrong.

N.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:25:03 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> wrote:

>
>> >I never use anything but kitchen/cold in my
>> >cooking, either. *I have to have a separate softener because the water
>> >in my area is so hard.
>>
>> If you have hard water and not softening your kitchen cold water what
>> makes you think that water isn't just as hard. *Water softeners do not
>> add anthing, they only take away... only the pinheaded ignoranuses
>> believe water softeners add salt.
>>
>
>The kitchen cold IS hard; it is excluded from the system in the way
>the pipes were run in my house - at the recommendation of the
>commercial installer. Maybe you'd like to take up your ideas with the
>installer.
>
>I never said that softeners added salt. Your attribute is wrong.
>
How water softeners work
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf > wrote:
>
>How water softeners work
>http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm

That's much more an over simplified course on how to install a water
softener than it is about how water softeners work.

The thing to keep in mind is that virtually all tap water contains
salt. In the process of softening water whatever miniscule quantity
of salt a softener may add it's less than it removes so the net result
is that ones tap water will contain less salt after softening... and
we're talking about 10 mg or less per liter, which is less salt than
is contained in a liter bottle of sody pop that's permitted to list 0
mg sodium. Virtually all naturally ocurring water on the
planet contains salt, even rain water. Technically a water softener
can add some salt, but less than it removes. A human being can't
drink enough softened tap water to even come close to ingesting too
much salt. We get our salt from food, all food naturally contains
salt, and of course from salt shakers.