notbob wrote:

Trimmed as not Germain to my response.
>
>> Also, all the wildlife (to include the introduced feral cats), usually
>> find their place in the food chain. Note I mention watching the hawks
>> dealing with them as well as squirrels and rabbits elsewhere. And to be
>> honest? I'd rather have one or two too may feral cats that are eating
>> the voles, moles, and if large enough, the squirrels and even the
>> groundhogs. If there is food to go around, I have no issue with them.
>
> You make a good argument, Bob. I like that. OTOH, domestic cats are
> not native and do have the ability to upset the natural predator/prey
> balance. The excesively high depradation of domestic cats on Eastern
> US songbirds has long been documented by experts. It is not natural
> and is caused by the insane tendency of too-much-time/money Americans
> to anthropomorphize their pets.

You mention "domestic" cats. I did not. I have two in the house now. One
is 15 yrs old, the other is around 6 (I think), neither has been
outdoors other than on their way to the vet, or on the very odd chance,
to the pet hotel while mom & dad went somewhere a week or longer. I'd
even be confused if that happened anytime soon :-)

Seriously though, feral cats as far as I am concerned are on the same
level as "bob cats", just smaller, and more likely to be hawk food. But
I do believe they have their place in the chain since some of the other
small predators are no longer around, or are slim in numbers. The voles,
moles, and ground hogs are not. I know as I am trying to kill a few of
them right now myself.
>
> I have nothing against any pet. I had many for many years. Even now,
> preferring not to have ANY pet, I respect the rights of others, unless
> they abuse those rights. Hey, I may still get another dog.
>
> BTW, I forgot to thank you for your complimenting my writing. Thank
> you. You made me blush.

Just so you know, I don't try to props anyone that didn't deserve it. I
enjoyed the writing.

Also, if you want tips (or moral support) on field dressing larger game,
I don't have a problem with that. Seriously...

I respect all hunters, except those looking for trophies. If you eat
what you kill, you are the same as me. I respect that. I also respect
the veggie people. They just actually have to be one.

Example of my carnivore ways... I caught the largest big mouth bass at
Ft. Gordon, GA. It was in a stumpy 1.5' lake that had the expected fog
over it early in the morning. 31 inches, 8.5 lbs, and from 1.5' of
water? An amazingly fun thing to do. I sent my best friend into the
water to retrieve the bass, as it was likely he'd break the string if I
did not. Friend was cool about it :-) The picture was of him holding up
this Bass with the mouth much larger than his fist.

Got my picture in the paper, etc. But you know what? Once I realized
the taxidermist wanted $65 to make a trophy (this was around 1981), I
instead had a poker party, and we baked that sucker with lots of herbs,
lemon, and other citrus. We did not finish eating his large butt, but I
did win around $25 at the card games.

Picture in the paper? $25 won at cards? Everyone fed to the point of
can't eat no more? That was a good day....

Bob
>
> nb
>
>

"Bob Muncie" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> Seriously though, feral cats as far as I am concerned are on the same
> level as "bob cats", just smaller, and more likely to be hawk food. But I
> do believe they have their place in the chain since some of the other
> small predators are no longer around, or are slim in numbers. The voles,
> moles, and ground hogs are not. I know as I am trying to kill a few of
> them right now myself.
>>

Nope. Feral cats are domestic cats gone feral out of need and survival.
They are not the same as any wild cat native to the US. Domestic cats came
from wild cats that are native to Africa. And maybe India, and I think
there's one species in Europe, but I think most of their ancestors were from
Africa. Domestic cats are just relatives to lynx or bobcats, and are much
smaller. If the feral cat population went back to what it should be, the
real predators of moles, voles and other small animals would be food to
sustain owls, hawks, and the real predators of these prey in the US.

I have a formerly feral cat as a pet. She started out just as wild as if
she was a raccoon or a squirrel that you tried to take in. But somewhere in
her DNA is what we humans did to her species to make them tame, but stronger
still is what her own species did to survive, which is to be wild. You
can't hold this cat like you could a cat that has always been with people.
But she has her very sweet side and after 6 years, she's learning. I'm not
expecting her to change for me.

"Bob Muncie" > wrote in message
...
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2009-10-07, Bob Muncie > wrote:
>>> BTW nb - The whole "throwing up" descriptive thing was pretty gross.
>>
>> Yeah, it is, but it was a fact. I worked at a lakeside resort
>> food/boat concesion, miles from any homes. How did cats get here?
>> They were here and lived mostly off ground squirrels, the hairballs
>> they coughed up on the porch of the concession stand fulla squirrel
>> teeth and eyeballs and I hadda pick 'em up every morning when opening
>> so as not to gross out the city folk customers.
>>
>>
>>
>>> feed them around 70lbs of feed every month.....
>>
>> see my anti-feeder rant, elsewhere
>>
>>> Life is pretty cool that way. Gives you a reason to consider you own
>>> place in the scheme of things.
>>
>> Sounds more like you are selfishly creating an artificial "scheme of
>> things" to satisfy your own unatural personal desires.
>>
>>> I wish everyone had the opportunity I currently have.
>>
>> To do what? Screw up nature?
>>
>>> OTOH, my house cats that have never been outside, love to watch behind
>>> the screened in windows all that is going on.
>>
>> Good. Keep 'em there.
>>
>> nb
>>
>
> nb - Sometimes you even amaze me with the callousness you sometimes have.
>

Can you say "ASSHOLE?" I think that you can. *beam*

"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2009-10-06, cybercat > wrote:
>>
>>> There is not a reason in this world, or this post, that *I* see for
>>> "respecting" this cat-shooting imbecile. FFS, Bob. Muncie.
>>
>> I've never shot a cat in my life, you psychotic moron. That's not to
>> say I wouldn't. Feral cats are a freakin plague. They are actually
>> negatively impacting the song bird populations in some areas of the US,
>> they not being a native species. I've also seen how they puke up
>> their hairballs all over the place with squirrel eyeballs and teeth
>> protruding. Don't tell me that's benign.
>>
>
> Feral cats are not a product of nature. At least not in the US. Feral
> domestic cats are a product of asshole humans who don't spay/neuter. It
> isn't their fault that they're forced to eek out a living by killing
> something. Then they reproduce. Ad infinitum.

You know, I am beginning to suspect that notbob is an ASSHOLE. Let's keep
this just between us, okay?

"Bob Muncie" > wrote
> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>
>

You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
creatures.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:36:06 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>Just curious about the percentage of folks that would love or hate cats
>at the Doctors or therapists offices...
>
>Me? I'd love it.

Me too

Nathalie in Switzerland

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
>> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>
>>
>
> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
> creatures.
HA! HA! HA! ROTFLMAO!!!
Coming from a cat lover, that's hilarious! Talk about pot - kettle - black!

cybercat wrote:

> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything
>> you have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>
>>
>
> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
> creatures.


You know, cyberkittie, even though I am all queer you *really* turn me on
with your sexy banter...

It would be a tremendous thrill to bang you, especially if you were
pregnant...a wet dream come true...!!!

Could ya dig it, bay-bee...!!!???

;-P

xoxoxoxo
Greg Morrow

"ffred" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
>>> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>> creatures.
> HA! HA! HA! ROTFLMAO!!!
> Coming from a cat lover, that's hilarious! Talk about pot - kettle -
> black!
>
>

Irony and the return key are clearly lost on you fu-fu-fu-fred.

In article >,
brooklyn1 > wrote:


> I have a difficult time believing that story... a nursing home is a
> medical facility, they wouldn't permit pets... perhaps it was an
> assisted care senior living community, some permit pets in one's own
> unit. Many people are deathly afraid of animals, especially
> exacerbated when folks are elderly, frail, ill. Nope, I don't
> believe that tale... I've visited many nursing homes, none permitted
> animals... many nursing homes don't permit minor children.

Believe it, Sheldon. Many nursing homes and retirement facilities are
going toward something called the Eden alternative. This includes
plants, aquariums, pets, and (YES) children. The philosophy is that
elders get psychosocial stimulation from a more diverse environment,
which makes them happier and pays off in reduced medications. Obviously
if a patient is in the very skilled nursing section (on oxygen, IV's,
and the like), critters may be limited to fishbowls; however, for the
most part the Edenization is facility-wide. Even hospitals will allow
Delta Society-trained dogs in on occasion to visit patients.

A Nature show on PBS several years ago featured a cat in a nursing home
in Oswego, NY (near where I grew up). Said cat would visit residents,
and had an uncanny knack for going to the rooms of residents who were
near death and curling up with them. In some cases the patients
actually reached out and petted the cat, and had some comfort in their
last hours.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Nancy Young wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>> OH! Sure! Bring her on up, the patients will love it! Well, she
>>> was the celebrity of the day at that place, many of the patients just
>>> wanted to pet her and tell me about their cats. It was very sweet
>>> but sad at the same time. I wish they could have some pets
>>> available to the patients.
>
>> Yes, that's the thing. Cats, dogs, etc. can be really
>> beneficial--but then what about the allergies etc.?
>
> That's why I said available, like a pet recreation room or whatever
> they're called, where people who want to see cats and dogs
> can go visit. You'd never get me out of there if I was stuck in a
> nursing home. These people were just sitting there dully until
> they saw my cat. You can't buy that kind of medicine.
>
> nancy

Yes, I think there would have to be a special room like that. (I
have long told my daughter that if I ever end up in an NH, it had
better be one that allows animals!!!!)

--
Jean B.

>
> NO to any mammals in waiting rooms of physicians' offices; the allergy
> problem, and the staff doesn't have time to supervise the animals and
> the uncontrolled kids that clients bring in. *A nice aquarium is
> adequate. *Television is better. *A nice aquarium is almost a

PLEASE, no to TV in waiting rooms. I HATE that. I don't want some
insipid voice interrupting my reading (I always bring something to
read)....and I don't want to be forced to listen to someone else's
choice. Aquariums have better pictures, anyway, and are relatively
silent.

N.

Cindy Fuller wrote:
> Believe it, Sheldon. Many nursing homes and retirement facilities are
> going toward something called the Eden alternative. This includes
> plants, aquariums, pets, and (YES) children. The philosophy is that
> elders get psychosocial stimulation from a more diverse environment,
> which makes them happier and pays off in reduced medications. Obviously
> if a patient is in the very skilled nursing section (on oxygen, IV's,
> and the like), critters may be limited to fishbowls; however, for the
> most part the Edenization is facility-wide. Even hospitals will allow
> Delta Society-trained dogs in on occasion to visit patients.
>
> A Nature show on PBS several years ago featured a cat in a nursing home
> in Oswego, NY (near where I grew up). Said cat would visit residents,
> and had an uncanny knack for going to the rooms of residents who were
> near death and curling up with them. In some cases the patients
> actually reached out and petted the cat, and had some comfort in their
> last hours.
>
> Cindy
>
Oh, I remember that!

--
Jean B.

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:31:42 -0600, graham wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
>> In article >,
>> "graham" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > Omelet > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Just curious about the percentage of folks that would love or hate
>>> >> cats
>>> >> at the Doctors or therapists offices...
>>> >>
>>> >> Me? I'd love it.
>>> >
>>> > I have never seen at cat at any business other than an occasional art
>>> > gallery or book store. Considering that some people are very allergic
>>> > to
>>> > pet dander, having a cat or dog at physician's or other medical
>>> > provider's office would be inappropriate.
>>>
>>> In addition to the dander problems, think of all the bugs they carry!
>>
>> <lol> Think of all the bugs PEOPLE carry into a Doctors office!
>> --
>
> So why deliberately increase the bug load?

i'd love to see bugs at the doctor's office:

<http://tinyurl.com/ybcuyj6>

your pal,
blake

Jean B. wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:

>> That's why I said available, like a pet recreation room or whatever
>> they're called, where people who want to see cats and dogs
>> can go visit. You'd never get me out of there if I was stuck in a
>> nursing home. These people were just sitting there dully until
>> they saw my cat. You can't buy that kind of medicine.

> Yes, I think there would have to be a special room like that. (I
> have long told my daughter that if I ever end up in an NH, it had
> better be one that allows animals!!!!)

Oh, there will be pets at the rfc retirement home! Be assured of
that. (laugh)

nancy

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:59:25 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:

> brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:41:28 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>>> Just curious about the percentage of folks that would love or hate
>>>>>> cats at the Doctors or therapists offices...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me? I'd love it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I dunno. Many folks are allergic to cats. Some may be afraid of
>>>>> them. I am generally in favor of pets in various places like
>>>>> nursing homes, but any such thing would have to be restricted at
>>>>> certain areas, I think.
>>>>
>>>> My mil was in what seemed to be a nursing home, but she was
>>>> there for rehab. For reasons I don't remember, I had my cat with
>>>> me (the aforementioned red point, Mugsy). I thought it would
>>>> cheer up my mil to see her, so I stuck the cat in my coat and tried
>>>> to smuggle her up to her room. Really, what was I thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I go through the front door, there's the desk and Mugsy
>>>> pops her head up Hey, where are we going? Caught, red handed.
>>>> Red point handed. Heh. I said My mil would like to see her. I was
>>>> astonished at the reaction.
>>>>
>>>> OH! Sure! Bring her on up, the patients will love it! Well, she
>>>> was the celebrity of the day at that place, many of the patients
>>>> just wanted to pet her and tell me about their cats. It was very
>>>> sweet
>>>> but sad at the same time. I wish they could have some pets
>>>> available to the patients.
>
>>> Yes, that's the thing. Cats, dogs, etc. can be really
>>> beneficial--but then what about the allergies etc.?
>>
>> I have a difficult time believing that story... a nursing home is a
>> medical facility, they wouldn't permit pets... perhaps it was an
>> assisted care senior living community, some permit pets in one's own
>> unit.
>
> No, it was not an assisted living facility. It was a hospital
> with beds and curtains you could draw around the beds. And
> I have no reason to make up a story like that, if anything it made
> me look silly, sneaking a cat into a hospital type of place.
>
> nancy

sheldon is confused. they've banned *him* from several nursing homes.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"graham" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "graham" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > Omelet > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Just curious about the percentage of folks that would love or hate
> >> >> cats
> >> >> at the Doctors or therapists offices...
> >> >>
> >> >> Me? I'd love it.
> >> >
> >> > I have never seen at cat at any business other than an occasional art
> >> > gallery or book store. Considering that some people are very allergic
> >> > to
> >> > pet dander, having a cat or dog at physician's or other medical
> >> > provider's office would be inappropriate.
> >>
> >> In addition to the dander problems, think of all the bugs they carry!
> >
> > <lol> Think of all the bugs PEOPLE carry into a Doctors office!
> > --
>
> So why deliberately increase the bug load?

People carry more people germs than pets do.
You are more likely to catch Swine flu' at the grocery store than at the
vets office!
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq>

Subscribe:

In article
>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> >
> > >My current vet has an office cat that has run of the waiting room.
> >
> > How did we make the jump from a people doctor's office to the
> > veterinarian? *
>
> ...because Omelet wanted to know if anyone thought having a cat in a
> doctor's office or therapist's office was a good idea - and I said no
> thanks to the cat hair, and it degenerated (or migrated, depending on
> your view) from around there somewhere. LOL.
>
> N.

Actually, I think it migrated into rather a fun thread. <g>

I recall one thread about birds in the grocery store...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq>

Subscribe:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:53:06 -0400, Bob Muncie wrote:

> Nancy2 wrote:
>> On Oct 5, 2:42 pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:

>>> I have seen some grundgy Vet's offices but I've seen just as grundgy
>>> people doctor offices.... but that's why we have feet. My current
>>> Vet's office is scrupulously clean, and no animal smells at all... I
>>> only wish people doctors kept such a tidy facility.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Well, Shel, we're different out here in flyover country. I've used
>> three different vets for pets over the years, and all of them had
>> "counter cats" -office pets that roamed free around the offices.
>>
>> N.
>
> And just because someone has not experienced it, does not make them
> right. Grungy is only a state of mind for the perceiver. I also know
> people that say they can't stand cats in their house or others as they
> can't stand the smell. That is the perspective of a small mind, or a
> small circle of acquaintances. I have two cat's (used to be three until
> recently), and I have one dog (use to be two until recently). If there
> are any smells in my house pet related, it was near the dog beds (he has
> two, one upstairs, and one down), and that was only because I hadn't
> gotten around to washing them recently. You would not know I have cats
> unless you saw them. I have two litter boxes I clean daily, and pretty
> much dump for new litter at least weekly.
>
> I find that having a few pets around a good thing. They can be
> aggravating, but usually they are less aggravating than a spouse would be.
>
> And yes, I actually have a spouse also.
>
> Bob

does she have an upstairs and downstairs bed as well?

blake

In article >,
(Jo Wolf) wrote:

> In general, trusted and appropriate (reptiles rarely welcome....)
> animals in a theraputic role can reduce blood pressure, pulse,
> respirations; reduce stress; improve communications; facilitate mastery
> of physical skills; entertain; facilitate learning.
>
> I hope this has clarified or at least extended your understanding of the
> role and use of animals in health care and some types of residential
> facilities. There are volumes written on the subject. Hippotherapy,
> therapeutic horseback riding, is a whole other "world" and very
> specialised, with it's own requirements.
>
> Jo in Georgia

Great post, thanks! :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq>

Subscribe:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:58:09 -0400, Roger wrote:

> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>
>> I only wanted dogs as pets one I owned my own homes. I am a dog kind of
>> guy.
>>
>> But I am the youngest of three (two sisters), and they always had cats.
>> mAnd wile I never really identified with cats? My wife did, and the
>> three cats we've had were here "babies".
>>
>> Right now, she is not at home. One of the three died for health reasons,
>> right now, one of the two left is standing on my chair arm as I type
>> this. Who would have thought that a Simease cat would have been needy
>> enough for attention to have just pawed me on my shoulder?
>>
>> Anywho, real love comes from unexpected corners... embrace it when it
>> comes, and understand it will not come again. Appreciate what you have,
>> while you have it.
>>
>> The same principal works for people also.
>>
>> Bob
>
> If I'm reading this right...
>
> Your wife left you or she is out while....
>
> You have a dead cat in your house - "right now"?
>
> BTW - It's Siamese and principle

i'm still working on 'One of the three died for health reasons.'

i suppose it's as good a reason as any.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> Mice are cute, singly in a
> habitrail, but they can also become an infestation. Likewise, cats.

Frankly, I'd rather have the cats than the mice!
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq>

Subscribe:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:15:23 -0400, Bob Muncie wrote:

> Roger wrote:
>> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have been tempted to bring home a cat from the stable where I do
>>>> volunteer therapy work. The cat showed up there a few months ago and
>>>> it just won't leave. It is a friendly little critter, and demands a
>>>> lot of attention. The thing is that as much as I appreciate cats as
>>>> mousing implements, I am more of a dog person. I have had lots of
>>>> cats in the past, fed them, let them catch mice for me, even let them
>>>> follow is n walks in the woods. I am not sure that I can handle a cat
>>>> that needs so much attention. We have to stick it in a cage during
>>>> therapy sessions because it annoys everyone.
>>>
>>> Dave - It the prospective makes a difference?
>>>
>>> I only wanted dogs as pets one I owned my own homes. I am a dog kind
>>> of guy.
>>>
>>> But I am the youngest of three (two sisters), and they always had
>>> cats. mAnd wile I never really identified with cats? My wife did, and
>>> the three cats we've had were here "babies".
>>>
>>> Right now, she is not at home. One of the three died for health
>>> reasons, right now, one of the two left is standing on my chair arm as
>>> I type this. Who would have thought that a Simease cat would have been
>>> needy enough for attention to have just pawed me on my shoulder?
>>>
>>> Anywho, real love comes from unexpected corners... embrace it when it
>>> comes, and understand it will not come again. Appreciate what you
>>> have, while you have it.
>>>
>>> The same principal works for people also.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> If I'm reading this right...
>>
>> Your wife left you or she is out while....
>>
>> You have a dead cat in your house - "right now"?
>>
>> BTW - It's Siamese and principle
>
> So roger, is being an ass your specialty? Or are you just trying to earn
> that post? In either case, you smell the same.
>

ah, there's the bob muncie we know and love. for a minute there, i was
afraid it was over-medication making you all nicey-nice.

blake

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:54:37 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

> Nancy2 wrote:
>
>> Well, Shel, we're different out here in flyover country. I've used
>> three different vets for pets over the years, and all of them had
>> "counter cats" -office pets that roamed free around the offices.
>
> Over the years I have taken my dogs to at least 6 different vets in the
> area. Not one "counter cat".

you gotta ask the man. they're 'under-the-counter' cats.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote
> sheldon is confused. they've banned *him* from several nursing homes.
>

Well, those old ladies need their rest!

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:31:42 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> In article >,
>>> "graham" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> > In article >,
>>>> > Omelet > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Just curious about the percentage of folks that would love or hate
>>>> >> cats
>>>> >> at the Doctors or therapists offices...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Me? I'd love it.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have never seen at cat at any business other than an occasional art
>>>> > gallery or book store. Considering that some people are very allergic
>>>> > to
>>>> > pet dander, having a cat or dog at physician's or other medical
>>>> > provider's office would be inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>> In addition to the dander problems, think of all the bugs they carry!
>>>
>>> <lol> Think of all the bugs PEOPLE carry into a Doctors office!
>>> --
>>
>> So why deliberately increase the bug load?
>
> i'd love to see bugs at the doctor's office:
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/ybcuyj6>
>

I knew it would be the wabbit!

Nancy2 wrote on Wed, 7 Oct 2009 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT):

>>
>> NO to any mammals in waiting rooms of physicians' offices;
>> the allergy problem, and the staff doesn't have time to
>> supervise the animals and the uncontrolled kids that clients
>> bring in. A nice aquarium is adequate. Television is
>> better. A nice aquarium is almost a

> PLEASE, no to TV in waiting rooms. I HATE that. I don't want
> some insipid voice interrupting my reading (I always bring
> something to read)....and I don't want to be forced to listen
> to someone else's choice. Aquariums have better pictures,
> anyway, and are relatively silent.

My dentist has recorded that I despise TV when in the chair and does not
have TV in the waiting room at all..

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article
>
,
Cindy Fuller > wrote:

> In article >,
> brooklyn1 > wrote:
>
>
> > I have a difficult time believing that story... a nursing home is a
> > medical facility, they wouldn't permit pets... perhaps it was an
> > assisted care senior living community, some permit pets in one's own
> > unit. Many people are deathly afraid of animals, especially
> > exacerbated when folks are elderly, frail, ill. Nope, I don't
> > believe that tale... I've visited many nursing homes, none permitted
> > animals... many nursing homes don't permit minor children.
>
> Believe it, Sheldon. Many nursing homes and retirement facilities are
> going toward something called the Eden alternative. This includes
> plants, aquariums, pets, and (YES) children. The philosophy is that
> elders get psychosocial stimulation from a more diverse environment,
> which makes them happier and pays off in reduced medications. Obviously
> if a patient is in the very skilled nursing section (on oxygen, IV's,
> and the like), critters may be limited to fishbowls; however, for the
> most part the Edenization is facility-wide. Even hospitals will allow
> Delta Society-trained dogs in on occasion to visit patients.

My father lives in an Adult Home. My sister lives about a mile away.
She has six dogs, and sometimes she will bring ONE dog to the Adult
Home. The residents love it. My father likes to visit my sister and
interact with the dogs.

As far as Sheldon goes, if he behaves IRL anything like the way he
behaves here, I suspect that he has been banned from every nursing home
he has ever visited, so he can't be expected to keep up with the latest
trends. In particular, the statement that, "many nursing homes don't
permit minor children" rings pretty false. Many seniors (Sheldon
included) are very fond of their grandchildren, and would object
strenuously to having them excluded.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

blake murphy wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:53:06 -0400, Bob Muncie wrote:
>
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>> On Oct 5, 2:42 pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:
>
>>>> I have seen some grundgy Vet's offices but I've seen just as
>>>> grundgy people doctor offices.... but that's why we have feet. My
>>>> current Vet's office is scrupulously clean, and no animal smells
>>>> at all... I only wish people doctors kept such a tidy facility.-
>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Well, Shel, we're different out here in flyover country. I've used
>>> three different vets for pets over the years, and all of them had
>>> "counter cats" -office pets that roamed free around the offices.
>>>
>>> N.
>>
>> And just because someone has not experienced it, does not make them
>> right. Grungy is only a state of mind for the perceiver. I also know
>> people that say they can't stand cats in their house or others as
>> they can't stand the smell. That is the perspective of a small mind,
>> or a small circle of acquaintances. I have two cat's (used to be
>> three until recently), and I have one dog (use to be two until
>> recently). If there are any smells in my house pet related, it was
>> near the dog beds (he has two, one upstairs, and one down), and that
>> was only because I hadn't gotten around to washing them recently.
>> You would not know I have cats unless you saw them. I have two
>> litter boxes I clean daily, and pretty much dump for new litter at
>> least weekly.
>>
>> I find that having a few pets around a good thing. They can be
>> aggravating, but usually they are less aggravating than a spouse
>> would be.
>>
>> And yes, I actually have a spouse also.
>>
>> Bob
>
> does she have an upstairs and downstairs bed as well?


Yup, and he cleans her litter box daily, too...

<chuckle>


--
Best
Greg

blake murphy wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:54:37 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>>> Well, Shel, we're different out here in flyover country. I've used
>>> three different vets for pets over the years, and all of them had
>>> "counter cats" -office pets that roamed free around the offices.
>>
>> Over the years I have taken my dogs to at least 6 different vets in
>> the area. Not one "counter cat".
>
> you gotta ask the man. they're 'under-the-counter' cats.
>


Wow, "clandestine" cats...!!!


--
Best
Greg

b samp wrote:

> cybercat wrote:
>
>
>>"Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>
>>>Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything
>>>you have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>>creatures.
>
>
>
> You know, cyberkittie, even though I am all queer you *really* turn me on
> with your sexy banter...
>
> It would be a tremendous thrill to bang you, especially if you were
> pregnant...a wet dream come true...!!!
>
> Could ya dig it, bay-bee...!!!???
>
> ;-P
>
> xoxoxoxo
> Greg Morrow
>
>

You know Greg, they took syrup of ipecac off the market because it was
being abused.

There might be an underground market for your posts for those who want
to make themselves puke.

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Kathleen wrote:
>
>> b samp wrote:
>>
>>> cybercat wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything
>>>>> you have to say is only working to an audience that is not
>>>>> listening.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>>>> creatures.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You know, cyberkittie, even though I am all queer you *really* turn
>>> me on with your sexy banter...
>>>
>>> It would be a tremendous thrill to bang you, especially if you were
>>> pregnant...a wet dream come true...!!!
>>>
>>> Could ya dig it, bay-bee...!!!???
>>>
>>> ;-P
>>>
>>> xoxoxoxo
>>> Greg Morrow
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You know Greg, they took syrup of ipecac off the market because it
>> was being abused.
>>
>> There might be an underground market for your posts for those who
>> want to make themselves puke.
>
>
> Sometimes I even gross out *myself*, Kathleen...I'd really *nevah*
> consider an act of sexual congress with the cybercat...

Greg.. read my response to the other post.. please!!

Kathleen wrote:

> b samp wrote:
>
>> cybercat wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything
>>>> you have to say is only working to an audience that is not
>>>> listening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>>> creatures.
>>
>>
>>
>> You know, cyberkittie, even though I am all queer you *really* turn
>> me on with your sexy banter...
>>
>> It would be a tremendous thrill to bang you, especially if you were
>> pregnant...a wet dream come true...!!!
>>
>> Could ya dig it, bay-bee...!!!???
>>
>> ;-P
>>
>> xoxoxoxo
>> Greg Morrow
>>
>>
>
> You know Greg, they took syrup of ipecac off the market because it was
> being abused.
>
> There might be an underground market for your posts for those who want
> to make themselves puke.


Sometimes I even gross out *myself*, Kathleen...I'd really *nevah* consider
an act of sexual congress with the cybercat...

Lol...

;-)


--
Best
Greg

Bob Muncie wrote:
> Roger wrote:
>> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had cats for more years than I wish to admit to. Many are
>>>>> (even Simease that are rather not needy in general), but all had
>>>>> one thing in common. If they were treated nicely by humans, they
>>>>> became needy for that affection. Of course I could be wrong because
>>>>> that is only my 50 years of experience. I am also not knocking you
>>>>> for your experience. Just expressing mine.
>>>>
>>>> I have been tempted to bring home a cat from the stable where I do
>>>> volunteer therapy work. The cat showed up there a few months ago
>>>> and it just won't leave. It is a friendly little critter, and
>>>> demands a lot of attention. The thing is that as much as I
>>>> appreciate cats as mousing implements, I am more of a dog person. I
>>>> have had lots of cats in the past, fed them, let them catch mice for
>>>> me, even let them follow is n walks in the woods. I am not sure that
>>>> I can handle a cat that needs so much attention. We have to stick
>>>> it in a cage during therapy sessions because it annoys everyone.
>>>
>>> Dave - It the prospective makes a difference?
>>>
>>> I only wanted dogs as pets one I owned my own homes. I am a dog kind
>>> of guy.
>>>
>>> But I am the youngest of three (two sisters), and they always had
>>> cats. mAnd wile I never really identified with cats? My wife did, and
>>> the three cats we've had were here "babies".
>>>
>>> Right now, she is not at home. One of the three died for health
>>> reasons, right now, one of the two left is standing on my chair arm
>>> as I type this. Who would have thought that a Simease cat would have
>>> been needy enough for attention to have just pawed me on my shoulder?
>>>
>>> Anywho, real love comes from unexpected corners... embrace it when it
>>> comes, and understand it will not come again. Appreciate what you
>>> have, while you have it.
>>>
>>> The same principal works for people also.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> If I'm reading this right...
>>
>> Your wife left you or she is out while....
>>
>> You have a dead cat in your house - "right now"?
>>
>> BTW - It's Siamese and principle
>
> So roger, is being an ass your specialty? Or are you just trying to earn
> that post? In either case, you smell the same.
>
> I'm guessing it really doesn't matter as you would fit in either either
> direction, as long as you are being receptive.
>
> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>
> Good bye ""...".

That's a shame.

cybercat wrote:
> "Roger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> Bob Muncie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had cats for more years than I wish to admit to. Many are (even
>>>>> Simease that are rather not needy in general), but all had one thing in
>>>>> common. If they were treated nicely by humans, they became needy for
>>>>> that affection. Of course I could be wrong because that is only my 50
>>>>> years of experience. I am also not knocking you for your experience.
>>>>> Just expressing mine.
>>>> I have been tempted to bring home a cat from the stable where I do
>>>> volunteer therapy work. The cat showed up there a few months ago and it
>>>> just won't leave. It is a friendly little critter, and demands a lot of
>>>> attention. The thing is that as much as I appreciate cats as mousing
>>>> implements, I am more of a dog person. I have had lots of cats in the
>>>> past, fed them, let them catch mice for me, even let them follow is n
>>>> walks in the woods. I am not sure that I can handle a cat that needs so
>>>> much attention. We have to stick it in a cage during therapy sessions
>>>> because it annoys everyone.
>>> Dave - It the prospective makes a difference?
>>>
>>> I only wanted dogs as pets one I owned my own homes. I am a dog kind of
>>> guy.
>>>
>>> But I am the youngest of three (two sisters), and they always had cats.
>>> mAnd wile I never really identified with cats? My wife did, and the three
>>> cats we've had were here "babies".
>>>
>>> Right now, she is not at home. One of the three died for health reasons,
>>> right now, one of the two left is standing on my chair arm as I type
>>> this. Who would have thought that a Simease cat would have been needy
>>> enough for attention to have just pawed me on my shoulder?
>>>
>>> Anywho, real love comes from unexpected corners... embrace it when it
>>> comes, and understand it will not come again. Appreciate what you have,
>>> while you have it.
>>>
>>> The same principal works for people also.
>>>
>>> Bob
>> If I'm reading this right...
>>
>> Your wife left you or she is out while....
>>
>> You have a dead cat in your house - "right now"?
>>
>> BTW - It's Siamese and principle
>
> Wertz is hitting it early tonight.
>
>

I'm not "Wertz".

On Oct 6, 1:45*pm, (Jo Wolf) wrote:
> I've owned cats and dogs, and have taught dog obedience classes for over
> 20 years.... and have done Therapy Dog visits in many facilities for
> almost 20 years. *I also am an RN with over 30 years experience, ranging
> from clinic to bedside to facility supervison, most of it in the US
> Army.
>
> NO to any mammals in waiting rooms of physicians' offices; the allergy
> problem, and the staff doesn't have time to supervise the animals and
> the uncontrolled kids that clients bring in. *A nice aquarium is
> adequate. *Television is better. *A nice aquarium is almost a
> requirement in a dental clinic waiting room.
>
> Certified or registered Therapy Dogs must pass behavioral/training tests
> with the person who will handle them during visits. *They must meet
> specific health and hygiene standards. *Membership in a national
> organization that provides certification or registration also provides
> hefty liability insurance. *The same is true for cats, birds, horses,
> and a host of other species used regularly in this role. *This applies
> to the US; I don't have details about other countries. *I am very
> familiar with the requirements of the "big three" national therapy
> dog/pet organizations....
>
> Each facility determines where which animals may go. *We Never go into a
> patient or resident room unless invited. *We Never get up close and
> personal with a person who does not agree to it. *We do go into
> hospitals, and the childrens hospital our group serves takes one or two
> dog-owner teams to intensive care at times. *Both physician and parental
> consent is required. *At the other hospitals, it is a door-to-door on
> specific units. *These dogs are Not permitted to roam loose. Ever. *They
> may be off leash during a demonstration of skills and tricks that
> require being free.... but these individual dogs are well trained for
> this purpose.
>
> The simplest form of animal assisted therapy is a "visit"..... fun,
> diversion, petting. *More complicated forms include the animal being
> part of actual therapeutic activities prescribed, supervised and
> evaluated by a medical professional. *One of my dogs endlessly retrieved
> objects tossed by recovering stroke victims..... and all have stood
> stock still for up to five minutes to be brushed by patients working on
> upper extremity range of motion, movement control and endurance. *In
> group therapy sessions, the animal's presence just eases communications. *
>
> Many groups also work in schools, teaching safety around animals and a
> little responsible ownership, or to reinforce or enrich some specific
> lesson material (I've done a lot of high school biology class sessions,
> and some elementary school sessions on the senses). *"Read to Rover" is
> a popular program in which kids who have a very hard time reading and
> reading aloud in the classroom read to a non-judgemental dog away from
> that classroom. *(One of our schools cleaned up a broom closet for this;
> the dog's owner brought in a comforter for dog and kid to occupy, and a
> folding chair for her own use.)
>
> In assisted living facilities, pets are often permitted, as long as the
> owner can care for them. *In nursing homes, pets may be owned by the
> facility and cared for by one or more staff members as a matter of job
> description; dogs and cats may or may not be permitted to roam, but if
> they are, they soon learn who doesn't want contact. *In a few nursing
> homes, for selected residents, personal pets, such as small dogs or a
> cat, May be permitted by individual arrangement. *These facilities
> usually permit visits by family pets... and.... not always
> appropriately.... encourage taking them to visit "everybody". *I've had
> a family member's unsuitable dog charge out of a room to try to attack
> my dog during a scheduled Therapy Dog visit....
>
> Note that hospitals Must permit the service dogs (seeing-eye, signal,
> and other specialties) of patients to remain with them, but it is the
> family/patient's responsibility to provide all care for the animal, and
> the service animal is Never permitted to roam outside the room.
>
> I have been told by a veterinarian who is a professor of (animal)
> communicable diseases that our dogs are probably bacteriologically
> cleaner, and of less threat of infection, than most human hospital
> visitors. *We test and observe to vastly reduce the possibility of a
> Therapy Dog causing injury during an assignment due to misbehavior of
> any variety... by far the greater concern. *Basic good manners are
> required at the least, but many are highly trained in obedience and/or
> in special skills for work in rehabilitation facilities. *A sound
> temperament and "bombproof" personality is critical. *
>
> Therapy Cats are more difficult to find; they must travel comfortably
> and tolerate strange new places and Like new people. *We've found that
> cats with a cat show career, present or past, are more likely than the
> family pet cat to fill the role easily. *Domestic rabbits are pretty
> good at this work, too.
>
> In general, trusted and appropriate (reptiles rarely welcome....)
> animals in a theraputic role can reduce blood pressure, pulse,
> respirations; reduce stress; improve communications; facilitate mastery
> of physical skills; entertain; facilitate learning.
>
> I hope this has clarified or at least extended your understanding of the
> role and use of animals in health care and some types of residential
> facilities. *There are volumes written on the subject. *Hippotherapy,
> therapeutic horseback riding, is a whole other "world" and very
> specialised, with it's own requirements.
>
> Jo in Georgia

Very informative post- thank you!

Cheryl wrote:
>
> "Bob Muncie" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>
>>
>> Seriously though, feral cats as far as I am concerned are on the same
>> level as "bob cats", just smaller, and more likely to be hawk food.
>> But I do believe they have their place in the chain since some of the
>> other small predators are no longer around, or are slim in numbers.
>> The voles, moles, and ground hogs are not. I know as I am trying to
>> kill a few of them right now myself.
>>>
>
> Nope. Feral cats are domestic cats gone feral out of need and survival.
> They are not the same as any wild cat native to the US. Domestic cats
> came from wild cats that are native to Africa. And maybe India, and I
> think there's one species in Europe, but I think most of their ancestors
> were from Africa. Domestic cats are just relatives to lynx or bobcats,
> and are much smaller. If the feral cat population went back to what it
> should be, the real predators of moles, voles and other small animals
> would be food to sustain owls, hawks, and the real predators of these
> prey in the US.
>
> I have a formerly feral cat as a pet. She started out just as wild as
> if she was a raccoon or a squirrel that you tried to take in. But
> somewhere in her DNA is what we humans did to her species to make them
> tame, but stronger still is what her own species did to survive, which
> is to be wild. You can't hold this cat like you could a cat that has
> always been with people. But she has her very sweet side and after 6
> years, she's learning. I'm not expecting her to change for me.

Sorry if I misspoke Cheryl.

I know feral cats are not native or wild. As domestic cats that grow up
in the wild, they do serve a purpose in my "out in the boonies"
neighborhood though as a predator that keeps some of the smaller
critters in line. I do not condone having them, but I do see them, and
recognize the value they have.

Bob

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ffred" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
>>>> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>>> creatures.
>> HA! HA! HA! ROTFLMAO!!!
>> Coming from a cat lover, that's hilarious! Talk about pot - kettle -
>> black!
>>
>>
>
> Irony and the return key are clearly lost on you fu-fu-fu-fred.
You wouldn't know what irony is if it bit you on your obviously ample ass!

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:53:06 -0400, Bob Muncie wrote:
>>
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>> On Oct 5, 2:42 pm, brooklyn1 > wrote:
>>>>> I have seen some grundgy Vet's offices but I've seen just as
>>>>> grundgy people doctor offices.... but that's why we have feet. My
>>>>> current Vet's office is scrupulously clean, and no animal smells
>>>>> at all... I only wish people doctors kept such a tidy facility.-
>>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> Well, Shel, we're different out here in flyover country. I've used
>>>> three different vets for pets over the years, and all of them had
>>>> "counter cats" -office pets that roamed free around the offices.
>>>>
>>>> N.
>>> And just because someone has not experienced it, does not make them
>>> right. Grungy is only a state of mind for the perceiver. I also know
>>> people that say they can't stand cats in their house or others as
>>> they can't stand the smell. That is the perspective of a small mind,
>>> or a small circle of acquaintances. I have two cat's (used to be
>>> three until recently), and I have one dog (use to be two until
>>> recently). If there are any smells in my house pet related, it was
>>> near the dog beds (he has two, one upstairs, and one down), and that
>>> was only because I hadn't gotten around to washing them recently.
>>> You would not know I have cats unless you saw them. I have two
>>> litter boxes I clean daily, and pretty much dump for new litter at
>>> least weekly.
>>>
>>> I find that having a few pets around a good thing. They can be
>>> aggravating, but usually they are less aggravating than a spouse
>>> would be.
>>>
>>> And yes, I actually have a spouse also.
>>>
>>> Bob
>> does she have an upstairs and downstairs bed as well?
>
>
> Yup, and he cleans her litter box daily, too...
>
> <chuckle>
>
>

Wow... I thought you two were a lot alike... I just did not know "how"
alike you are.

The two of you can probably answer this one... Do two farts actually
cancel each other out?

I use oust myself, and a KF that only shelbrook and vomit person live
in. Would the two of you like to join them as you are seemingly siblings?

ffred wrote:
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "ffred" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>>>>> Thanks for your vile input, but you are now in the KF, so anything you
>>>>> have to say is only working to an audience that is not listening.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You kf this and not NOTbob? You men are such irrational, mysterious
>>>> creatures.
>>> HA! HA! HA! ROTFLMAO!!!
>>> Coming from a cat lover, that's hilarious! Talk about pot - kettle -
>>> black!
>>>
>>>
>> Irony and the return key are clearly lost on you fu-fu-fu-fred.
> You wouldn't know what irony is if it bit you on your obviously ample ass!
>
>

And I'm guessing you think you would?

And BTW, who cares how ample or not someone's ass is on the internet?

You sir, are a tard.