My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,

I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
happening to my pizza dough,

1 1/2 cups very warm water
2 teaspoons yeast
2 teaspoons sugar
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt

I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough into
a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my other
recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but 17
Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the dough
was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.
Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to the sides
of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough ball being
kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.

What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight to
see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm recipe
with all instructions through out the process, before during and after it
comes out of the machine?

Thanks
Piedmont

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:25:12 -0400, "Piedmont" > wrote:

>My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,

Food processer necessary...but a tried and true dough recipe from Fine
Cooking. This is enough for two pans. I usually cut the recipe in
half...but I have made the full recipe as written and frozen the
unused half for later.


@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Pizza Dough/Fine Cooking

breads, Italian, pasta

2 1/4 ts yeast
1 1/2 c warm water; 110F
18 oz bread flour
plus more for dusting
1 1/2 ts salt
2 ts olive oil

Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and set aside.

Meanwhile, put the flour and salt in a food processor fitted with the
steel
blade. Process briefly to mix. With the machine running, add the
water-yeast mixture in a steady stream. Turn the processor off and add
the
oil. Pulse a few times to mix in the oil.

Divide the dough. Scrape the soft doughty out of the processor and
onto a
lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands, quickly knead the
doughty in a mass incorporating any bits of flour or doughty from the
processor bowl that wasn't mixed in.

Cut dough into four equal pieces with a dough scrapper. Roll each
piece
into a tight smooth ball, kneading to push out all the air.

Proceed as usual.

Extra pieces of doughty will freeze very well. Cover with extra flour
and
seal and freeze in a quart zip lock bag for future use.


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.84 **



The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
be consistent with what you know to be true.
As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appétit!

Piedmont wrote:
> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>
> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
> happening to my pizza dough,
>
> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
> 2 teaspoons yeast
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 3 cups bread flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
>
> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the
> dough into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened
> with my other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making
> adjustments but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add
> the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball
> during the mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball
> but was still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at
> all what you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of
> a loaf of the bread that I make.
snip>
> Thanks
> Piedmont

How long did you let it knead before you started adding flour. I don't use
a bread machine, but rather a Kitchenaid stand mixer. Most of my bread
dough and pizza dough is soupy/goopy to start. After about 6-8 minutes of
kneading it begins to pull together. If you touch it quickly at this point,
the dough is tacky not sticky. I also let the mixture sit for 20 minutes
before beginning to knead. This allows the flour to absorb all the water --
the gluten also begins to develop naturally during this time. Many times I
must use a bench knife to scoup under the dough on the counter to help me
turn and fold the dough. Maybe you are too impatient. You also might try
alt.bread.recipes for help and tips. There are good bakers there that like
to help others.
Janet

"Piedmont" ha scritto nel messaggio

If I didn't add the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to
form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.

I do not use nor have I ever used a bread machine, but I make pizza all the
time. Your recipe looks a lot like mine which I call Sloppy Dough Pizza.
It never forms a ball and does not need kneading, either.

> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
> to > see if any differences happen.

Put it into the bags right away.. not all in one-- and refrigerate. Leave
12 hours, it will self-knead and rise a lot, then form the pizzas by
pressing out with oily fingers. I do mine right onto parchment, use a
cookie sheet as a peel to slide the paper onto the lowest rack-- oven at
max. Dont load the dough down with too much stuff.

"Piedmont" wrote

> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>
> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
> happening to my pizza dough,
>
> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
> 2 teaspoons yeast
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 3 cups bread flour
> 1 teaspoon salt

Too much water there. Try 1 cup water, at most 1.2

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>
> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
> happening to my pizza dough,
>
> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
> 2 teaspoons yeast
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 3 cups bread flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
>
> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
> 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the
> dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading
> cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to
> the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough
> ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.
>
> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
> after it comes out of the machine?
>
> Thanks
> Piedmont
Following is close to what I do.I use a biga or sponge, frequently, though
you don't have to. I use 1TB olive oil for 3 cups flour and 1.75 tsp Kosher
salt. The recipe below is even stickier than my 3 cups flour to1.25cups
water. It does that you must be gentle to get it on the pizza stone. I
always, after the first rise, divide the ball into two and punch the balls
slightly to flatten a bit on a floured wooden bread board[2 feet by 3 feet
of 1/2 inch plywood from your local lumbar yard]. When you're going to make
your pizza, very gently stretch the dough out to about 12 inches, and then
grasping the edge around slowly nurse the outer edges to give you a pizza
round of 14-16 inches, depending on to the degree of thinness you want it.
Do this on a floured pizza paddle[from your local restaurant supply store,
much cheaper, and much better than William Sonoma]. Then top with whatever
you want. For the first several pizzas top gingerly until you are
comfortable getting the pizza from your paddle to the heated pizza stone.

Strart by making a simple pizza margharita.
http://splendidtable.publicradio.org...ead_pizza.html This dough is
more moist than mine!
ALWAYS, heat your pizza stone to 500+F for at least 45 minutes before you
proceed. After the pizza is on the stone, spray water gently to the top half
of your oven. This crisps the edges. Your pizza should bake in 6-8 minutes.
I usually am not able to throw my pizza round as they do in pizza parlors,
thought now and then I do. Do not overknead your dough! Pizza should have a
crisp airy crust, and should be nice and stiff under the topping. Don't buy
your first stone at Macy's. As a trial Walmart, ours at least, had a thin
pizza stone. It works on my grill for outdoor pizza, though that's a whole
new effort. Get a hefty stone, over 1/2 inches when you get into this.

I apologize for posting this twice. The best of luck to you. :If you tried
four times you'll make it fine.

Ed

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>
> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
> happening to my pizza dough,
>
> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
> 2 teaspoons yeast
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 3 cups bread flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
>
> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
> 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd?

Not at all. You use as much as you need. That varies from batch to batch.
Even the weather makes a difference.

If I didn't add the extra flour the dough
> was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.
> Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to the sides
> of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough ball being
> kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.

You needed more flour.

> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
> after it comes out of the machine?

Try making it from scratch not in the machine.

use filtered warm water - no chlorine
use high protein bread flour
allow for a long slow rise in the fridge
use extra virgin olive oil for aroma
knead for at least 10 minutes - stop if you get tired

You may want to make a 2 pound recipe and freeze half of it or keep it in
the fridge for 5 days.

My recipe is 2 cups tepid water
2 packages yeast (no need to proof)
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1 tablespoon olive oil

mix it all up

at least 5-6 cups flour, possibly more - it takes what it takes
knead until you get a smooth, silky dough that is springy

let rise overnight in the fridge. The slower the better.

Paul

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>
> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
> happening to my pizza dough,
>
> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
> 2 teaspoons yeast
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 3 cups bread flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
>
> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
> 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the
> dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading
> cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to
> the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough
> ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.
>
> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
> after it comes out of the machine?
>
> Thanks
> Piedmont

The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
(haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't know
if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>>
>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
>> happening to my pizza dough,
>>
>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
>> 2 teaspoons yeast
>> 2 teaspoons sugar
>> 3 cups bread flour
>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>
>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still
>> sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd
>> expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the
>> bread that I make.
>>
>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
>> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
>> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
>> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
>> after it comes out of the machine?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Piedmont
>
> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
> used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
> was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
> floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
> go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
> round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
> but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
> 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
> out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
> (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
> recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
> semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't
> know if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.
Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you are
using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that may be
why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina at a
health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a supermarket.
Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the color is
yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all purpose or
bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right ingredients for your
particular recipe or find a different recipe. It will make all the
difference in handling for you. Just adding more all purpose flour to
absorb the water distorts the final product.

Janet

Janet Bostwick wrote:
> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>>>
>>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
>>> happening to my pizza dough,
>>>
>>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
>>> 2 teaspoons yeast
>>> 2 teaspoons sugar
>>> 3 cups bread flour
>>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>>
>>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
>>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
>>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
>>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
>>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
>>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still
>>> sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd
>>> expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the
>>> bread that I make.
>>>
>>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
>>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
>>> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
>>> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
>>> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
>>> after it comes out of the machine?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Piedmont
>> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
>> used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
>> was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
>> floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
>> go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
>> round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
>> but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
>> 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
>> out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
>> (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
>> recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
>> semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't
>> know if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.

> Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
> flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
> kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
> All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
> higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
> absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you are
> using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that may be
> why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina at a
> health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a supermarket.
> Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the color is
> yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all purpose or
> bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right ingredients for your
> particular recipe or find a different recipe. It will make all the
> difference in handling for you. Just adding more all purpose flour to
> absorb the water distorts the final product.
>
> Janet
>
>

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that I got my Cream of Wheats info
from, Also, the original recipe called for 2.5 cups of bread flour plus
..5 cup of semolina flour.
(http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/article/46/28295) Is semolina made
from hard or soft wheat? Plus, you my be onto something as I used all
purpose flour instead of bread flour. Next time I will use the bread
flour and find the semolina somewhere.

"There are two main types of semolina sold on the general market. Durum
semolina, made from hard wheat, and soft wheat semolina, also known as
farina or by the trade name Cream of Wheat, used as a hot breakfast
cereal and for desserts such as semolina milk pudding. In North India,
semolina is known as Suji; in South India, Rava or Ravey. In Turkey,
Semolina is known as I.rmik,and Sameed in Arabic.
Semolina made from durum wheat or other hard wheats (that are easier to
grow than durum) is yellow in color. It is usually prepared with the
main dish, either boiled with water into a pasty substance, e.g. as
gnocchi (in Italy), or as the basis for dried products such as couscous
(North Africa), and bulgur (Turkey and the Levant). Couscous is made by
mixing roughly 2 parts semolina with 1 part durum flour. [2]
Semolina from softer types of wheats is almost white in color. In the
United States it has come to be known by the trade name Cream of Wheat.
In Germany, it is known as wiktionary:Grieß and is mixed with egg to
make Grießknödel which can be added to soup. The particles are fairly
coarse, between 0.25 and 0.75 millimetres in diameter. When boiled, it
turns into a soft, mushy porridge. This semolina is popular in North
Western Europe and North America as a dessert, boiled with milk, and
sweetened called semolina pudding. It is often flavored with vanilla and
served with jam. In Sweden and Russia, it is eaten as breakfast
porridge, sometimes mixed with raisins and served with milk. In Swedish
ít is known as mannagrynsgröt. In the middle east, it is used to make
desserts called Harisa or so called Basbosa or Nammora."

"Piedmont, S.C." > wrote in message
...
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>>>>
>>>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
>>>> happening to my pizza dough,
>>>>
>>>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
>>>> 2 teaspoons yeast
>>>> 2 teaspoons sugar
>>>> 3 cups bread flour
>>>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>>>
>>>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
>>>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
>>>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
>>>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
>>>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
>>>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was
>>>> still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what
>>>> you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of
>>>> the bread that I make.
>>>>
>>>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
>>>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into
>>>> the icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use
>>>> tonight to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or
>>>> a firm recipe with all instructions through out the process, before
>>>> during and after it comes out of the machine?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Piedmont
>>> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator,
>>> I used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during
>>> kneading was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly
>>> sticky, I floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the
>>> dough started to go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and
>>> went way too big and round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and
>>> crunchy on the bottom but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick
>>> it up to eat. Cooked at 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a
>>> paddle so I spread the dough out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide
>>> it onto and off the hot stone (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to
>>> something good here, the original recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5
>>> cup semolina flour, can't find semolina yet but as I understand semolina
>>> is cream of wheat but I don't know if it should be fine like flour or
>>> coarser just like cream of wheats.
>
>> Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
>> flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
>> kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
>> All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
>> higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
>> absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you
>> are using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that
>> may be why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina
>> at a health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a
>> supermarket. Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the
>> color is yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all
>> purpose or bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right
>> ingredients for your particular recipe or find a different recipe. It
>> will make all the difference in handling for you. Just adding more all
>> purpose flour to absorb the water distorts the final product.
>>
>> Janet
>
> Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that I got my Cream of Wheats info from,
> Also, the original recipe called for 2.5 cups of bread flour plus .5 cup
> of semolina flour. (http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/article/46/28295)
> Is semolina made from hard or soft wheat? Plus, you my be onto something
> as I used all purpose flour instead of bread flour. Next time I will use
> the bread flour and find the semolina somewhere.
>
> "There are two main types of semolina sold on the general market. Durum
> semolina, made from hard wheat, and soft wheat semolina, also known as
> farina or by the trade name Cream of Wheat, used as a hot breakfast cereal
> and for desserts such as semolina milk pudding. In North India, semolina
> is known as Suji; in South India, Rava or Ravey. In Turkey, Semolina is
> known as I.rmik,and Sameed in Arabic.
> Semolina made from durum wheat or other hard wheats (that are easier to
> grow than durum) is yellow in color. It is usually prepared with the main
> dish, either boiled with water into a pasty substance, e.g. as gnocchi (in
> Italy), or as the basis for dried products such as couscous (North
> Africa), and bulgur (Turkey and the Levant). Couscous is made by mixing
> roughly 2 parts semolina with 1 part durum flour. [2]
> Semolina from softer types of wheats is almost white in color. In the
> United States it has come to be known by the trade name Cream of Wheat. In
> Germany, it is known as wiktionary:Grieß and is mixed with egg to make
> Grießknödel which can be added to soup. The particles are fairly coarse,
> between 0.25 and 0.75 millimetres in diameter. When boiled, it turns into
> a soft, mushy porridge. This semolina is popular in North Western Europe
> and North America as a dessert, boiled with milk, and sweetened called
> semolina pudding. It is often flavored with vanilla and served with jam.
> In Sweden and Russia, it is eaten as breakfast porridge, sometimes mixed
> with raisins and served with milk. In Swedish ít is known as
> mannagrynsgröt. In the middle east, it is used to make desserts called
> Harisa or so called Basbosa or Nammora."

O.k., I see where Wikipedia calls it Cream of Wheat. Cream of Wheat as I
recall it is tiny 'pellets' of white grain. The semolina in your recipe is
nothing like that. It is quite fine and slightly sandy feeling. Let me
clarify that in my market area (Idaho) there is semolina (yellow and sandy)
that I use for my Italian breads and duram (tannish) that I have not used.
Both are hard wheat products. As to the water absorption, it is an
acknowledged fact. But I am a skeptic and needed to prove it to myself. So
more than 10 years ago, I took an equal weight of flour to an equal weight
of water for every flour that I had in the house at that time. Some were
bread flour . . .organic, or house brand and several name brands . . .some
were all purpose flour ( same mix of types) and a cake flour(a soft flour).
In all maybe 10-12 mixtures. The results were that I had everything from a
runny, soupy mix to a stiff dough -- progressing upward from the cake flour
to the bread flour. The interesting part was that there were noticeable
differences within the categories of all purpose and bread flour, determined
by their protein content. I now know that I must expect to make initial
adjustments to any bread recipe where I change the flour brand or type.
Protein content from all purpose flour upward to bread flour ranges from
somewhere in the low 10 percent to well over 14 percent for the higher
quality bread flour. If you look at the King Arthur web site, they give the
protein content of all of the flour that they carry. It may give you some
insight. The other important thing about mixing flour and water is that the
flour does not absorb all the water at once during mixing. To avoid
over-flouring, make a rough mix of the flour and water, cover the bowl with
plastic wrap and walk away for 20 minutes. Not only will the flour have
absorbed more of the liquid and become fully hydrated, chemical development
of the gluten has begun during the 20 minutes. This means that any kneading
(mechanical gluten development) you do from this point on will be much
easier and probably less necessity for added flour.
HTH
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
m...
> Piedmont wrote:
>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>>
>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
>> happening to my pizza dough,
>>
>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
>> 2 teaspoons yeast
>> 2 teaspoons sugar
>> 3 cups bread flour
>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>
>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the
>> dough into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened
>> with my other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making
>> adjustments but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add
>> the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball
>> during the mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball
>> but was still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at
>> all what you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of
>> a loaf of the bread that I make.
> snip>
>> Thanks
>> Piedmont
>
> How long did you let it knead before you started adding flour. I don't
> use a bread machine, but rather a Kitchenaid stand mixer. Most of my
> bread dough and pizza dough is soupy/goopy to start. After about 6-8
> minutes of kneading it begins to pull together. If you touch it quickly
> at this point, the dough is tacky not sticky. I also let the mixture sit
> for 20 minutes before beginning to knead. This allows the flour to absorb
> all the water -- the gluten also begins to develop naturally during this
> time. Many times I must use a bench knife to scoup under the dough on the
> counter to help me turn and fold the dough. Maybe you are too impatient.
> You also might try alt.bread.recipes for help and tips. There are good
> bakers there that like to help others.
> Janet
>
I think your correct about the pizza dough being soupy. I did find and buy
the semolina flour the recipe I'm working with called for, plus I used All
Purpose flour instead of the called for bread flour. Friday is pizza night
so I'll suck it up and follow the recipe verbatum with bread flour and
semolina. I'll try the suggestion you made about letting it sit for 20
minutes before kneading, sounds logical. I did a few more Google searches
and I see that a Brooklyn cooked dough is full of large air holes, my
financee grew up in Brooklyn and she confirms that.

Thanks!
Piedmont