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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
John N.
 
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Default Pizza dough help

I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made seem to have lost
something in the crust. I'm hoping someone here can help me identify the
problem and suggest a solution.

The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style. The proportions are
1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower and 1 tsp. yeast. (This
recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At it's best, the
crust is very thin in the center, puffy around the rim and has a nice, chewy
texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for lack of a better term).

The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost hard or tough, not
as puffy and without that nice flavor. Here's some things that may be
effecting it:

Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water. Package was new and
date was fine.

Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the Kitchen Aid and another
2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too much gluten? Ot not
enough gluten to support the rise?

Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually does last time. The
recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all purpose, and I was at the low end of that.
Would a wetter dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?

Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes, divide into 4
balls (with minimal handling) and another 90 minute rise until doubled. I
did as suggested, and it seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times can
improve flavor, but my best results have come using these times.

Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a lot. Any help or
ideas would be appreciated.

John


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Master Chef Richard Campbell
 
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Default Pizza dough help

I don't think if it came out tough or chewy you over developed the dough for
the amount of gluten in it. The combination of ap and cake flour makes for a
very low gluten level. More likely it didn't get to rise long enough.

John, here is how I make pizza. I originally posted this over on a.b.f:

Hey All,

Van asked what was on the pizza. So I will share the recipe. I can't give
you the pizza dough recipe because it is a look and feel thing. I can tell
you how I make it.

I start with two large pinches of yeast added to 20 oz of bread flour. I
like Cresota brand. Three pinches of coarse sea salt. Mix well, add enough
hot water to make a shaggy mass. Let sit for 15 minutes. Add 1/2 cup of good
evoo and knead until smooth. This will take 5-10 minutes on a kitchen aid.
You may have to add a little water. Puck a small bit out and see if it forms
a window. Add 1/3 cup of stone ground cornmeal. You have to use stone ground
cornmeal regular cornmeal will just cut the gluten and leave you with the a
hard tack like crust. Knead until just combined. Form into a ball and let
rise until double. Knock down. Divide into 5 oz balls and let double again.
Knock down and roll into 9 inch circles. Stack with cake cardboards. Keep
warm if making right away. Put in plastic bag and chill for up to 4 days.
Warm to room temp before using.

Heat oven to highest heat with pizza stone or quarry tiles in it for atleast
a hour before starting pizza baking. I like to get all the cheese grated and
ingredients preped during this hour.

I then hand stretch the dough to about 12-14" on a floured granite surface.
I then transfer to a cornmeal dusted peel.

For the pictured pizza:

Dots of pureed garlic. Danish Fontina cheese, smoked provolone, whole milk
mozzeralla, buffalo mozzeralla, and asiago cheese(less is more here). Sliced
roma tomatoes and sliced artichoke bottoms. Then a dusting of pecorino
romano. Shake the peel to make sure the pizza slides.

Slide pizza onto stone and bake until cheese is nice and bubbly. This will
normally only take a few minutes.

When it comes out slice on cutting board and then transfer to serving plate.
Squirt on some basil olive oil. Sprinkle on a little salt. Eat. Repeat.

Chef




  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
hahabogus
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pizza dough help

"John N." > wrote in
:

> I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made seem to have
> lost something in the crust. I'm hoping someone here can help me
> identify the problem and suggest a solution.
>
> The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style. The
> proportions are 1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower
> and 1 tsp. yeast. (This recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You
> Slice It). At it's best, the crust is very thin in the center, puffy
> around the rim and has a nice, chewy texture and a great 'fresh bread'
> flavor (for lack of a better term).
>
> The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost hard or tough,
> not as puffy and without that nice flavor. Here's some things that may
> be effecting it:
>
> Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water. Package was new
> and date was fine.
>
> Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the Kitchen Aid and
> another 2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too much
> gluten? Ot not enough gluten to support the rise?
>
> Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually does last time.
> The recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all purpose, and I was at the low end
> of that. Would a wetter dough help me get that lighter, chewier
> texture?
>
> Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes, divide into
> 4 balls (with minimal handling) and another 90 minute rise until
> doubled. I did as suggested, and it seemed about doubled. I know
> slower proof times can improve flavor, but my best results have come
> using these times.
>
> Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a lot. Any help
> or ideas would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
>


Perhaps it isn't the dough but the oven temp? This could dry the crust
out...making it tough. Check that the oven temp matches what you set it at
with a thermometer. Perhaps you changed flour brands, so that the gluten
percentage has changed?

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Taylor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pizza dough help


"John N." > wrote in message
...
> I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made seem to have lost
> something in the crust. I'm hoping someone here can help me identify the
> problem and suggest a solution.
>
> The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style. The proportions

are
> 1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower and 1 tsp. yeast.

(This
> recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At it's best, the
> crust is very thin in the center, puffy around the rim and has a nice,

chewy
> texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for lack of a better term).
>
> The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost hard or tough, not
> as puffy and without that nice flavor. Here's some things that may be
> effecting it:
>
> Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water. Package was new and
> date was fine.
>
> Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the Kitchen Aid and

another
> 2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too much gluten? Ot

not
> enough gluten to support the rise?
>
> Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually does last time. The
> recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all purpose, and I was at the low end of that.
> Would a wetter dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?
>
> Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes, divide into 4
> balls (with minimal handling) and another 90 minute rise until doubled. I
> did as suggested, and it seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times

can
> improve flavor, but my best results have come using these times.
>
> Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a lot. Any help or
> ideas would be appreciated.



If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water. Flour
measurements in breadmaking are always variable, depending on how much
moisture the flour contains. You are right about a wetter dough giving a
chewy texture.

Don't worry about overkneading.

Good luck!

-Scott


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Scott Taylor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pizza dough help


"John N." > wrote in message
...
> I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made seem to have lost
> something in the crust. I'm hoping someone here can help me identify the
> problem and suggest a solution.
>
> The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style. The proportions

are
> 1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower and 1 tsp. yeast.

(This
> recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At it's best, the
> crust is very thin in the center, puffy around the rim and has a nice,

chewy
> texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for lack of a better term).
>
> The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost hard or tough, not
> as puffy and without that nice flavor. Here's some things that may be
> effecting it:
>
> Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water. Package was new and
> date was fine.
>
> Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the Kitchen Aid and

another
> 2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too much gluten? Ot

not
> enough gluten to support the rise?
>
> Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually does last time. The
> recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all purpose, and I was at the low end of that.
> Would a wetter dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?
>
> Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes, divide into 4
> balls (with minimal handling) and another 90 minute rise until doubled. I
> did as suggested, and it seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times

can
> improve flavor, but my best results have come using these times.
>
> Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a lot. Any help or
> ideas would be appreciated.



If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water. Flour
measurements in breadmaking are always variable, depending on how much
moisture the flour contains. You are right about a wetter dough giving a
chewy texture.

Don't worry about overkneading.

Good luck!

-Scott





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pizza dough help

On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:25:34 GMT, "Scott Taylor"
> wrote:

> If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water.



Good call, Scott! That's probably the answer. Flour &
water proportions vary according to the "feel" of the dough.
It's something most of us do, but don't conscientiously
think about.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
John N.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pizza dough help

"Scott Taylor" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water. Flour
> measurements in breadmaking are always variable, depending on how much
> moisture the flour contains. You are right about a wetter dough giving a
> chewy texture.
>
> Don't worry about overkneading.
>
> Good luck!
>
> -Scott


Thanks Scott and Richard. I think you both had points that helped me out.

It was a drier than usual last time, and needed to be wetter. I also think I
paid a little too much attention to the clock last time, and not enough to
the dough, and did it before it had a chance to rise enough. I did pizza
this weekend, changed those two things, and it came out great. Used the
lower amount of flour for a pretty wet dough, and the rises were about a
half hour to 45 minutes longer. Almost two hours each. Nice chewy texture,
puffy rim, great flavor.


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