The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
checkout subject.

We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us.

1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
teller-labor-costs.

2. Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make the
salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be certified.

3. Self check out lanes - all that is necessary is 1 person to monitor
the lanes thereby eliminating retail clerk positions at $18.00 + per hour
(depends on the store and area & union not to mention the benefit load of
25% to 30 % per employee)

4. Remember the "paperless society" and EDI (Electronic Data
Interchange)? How it was supposed to simplify business - well it didn't -
not we have to have a paper back-up for all transactions. How about the
retailer that charges a data entry fee to process a paper invoice - unusual?
nope very common.

Rant over....

Want me to check my own groceries - sure give me a discount or pay me.

:-)

Dimitri

Dimitri wrote:

> 2. Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make
> the salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be
> certified.

The customer provides about 5% of the labor at a salad bar. And the
labor required to supply the salad bar is 3x as much labor as it would
take serving a salad to a customer at a non-salad bar restaurant just
because of the sheer number of ingredients at the salad bar restaurant
compared to a regular restaurant.

-sw

Dimitri wrote:
>
> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
> checkout subject.
>
> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us.
>
> 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> teller-labor-costs.
>
> 2. Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make the
> salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be certified.
>
> 3. Self check out lanes - all that is necessary is 1 person to monitor
> the lanes thereby eliminating retail clerk positions at $18.00 + per hour
> (depends on the store and area & union not to mention the benefit load of
> 25% to 30 % per employee)
>
> 4. Remember the "paperless society" and EDI (Electronic Data
> Interchange)? How it was supposed to simplify business - well it didn't -
> not we have to have a paper back-up for all transactions. How about the
> retailer that charges a data entry fee to process a paper invoice - unusual?
> nope very common.
>
> Rant over....
>
> Want me to check my own groceries - sure give me a discount or pay me.
>
> :-)
>
> Dimitri

Anything that helps me avoid having to deal with an under trained, under
motivated, under paid and usually incompetent employee is a plus.

On Nov 13, 12:52�pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> Dimitri wrote:
> > 2. � �Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make
> > the salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be
> > certified.
>
> The customer provides about 5% of the labor at a salad bar. �And the
> labor required to supply the salad bar is 3x as much labor as it would
> take serving a salad to a customer at a non-salad bar restaurant just
> because of the sheer number of ingredients at the salad bar restaurant
> compared to a regular restaurant.


Restaurants provide salad bars as a lure for people who like to fill
their tank, albeit with a lot of inexpensive foods, then cut way back
on portion size of much more costly entree ingredients... plus the
cost of the salad bar is factored into the price of the meal, and is
typically priced separately. Salad bars are very profitable or
restaurants wouldn't offer them.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
ster.com...
>
> Dimitri wrote:
>>
>> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
>> checkout subject.
>>
>> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to
>> us.
>>
>> 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
>> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
>> teller-labor-costs.
>>
>> 2. Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make
>> the
>> salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be certified.
>>
>> 3. Self check out lanes - all that is necessary is 1 person to monitor
>> the lanes thereby eliminating retail clerk positions at $18.00 + per hour
>> (depends on the store and area & union not to mention the benefit load of
>> 25% to 30 % per employee)
>>
>> 4. Remember the "paperless society" and EDI (Electronic Data
>> Interchange)? How it was supposed to simplify business - well it
>> didn't -
>> not we have to have a paper back-up for all transactions. How about the
>> retailer that charges a data entry fee to process a paper invoice -
>> unusual?
>> nope very common.
>>
>> Rant over....
>>
>> Want me to check my own groceries - sure give me a discount or pay me.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> Anything that helps me avoid having to deal with an under trained, under
> motivated, under paid and usually incompetent employee is a plus.

After a long day at work or home, I simply do not wish to interact with
another human being!

On Nov 13, 11:44*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
> checkout subject.
>
> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us..
>
> 1. * *ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> teller-labor-costs.

Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. The best
of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
mechanical function.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:
> "Dimitri" wrote:
>
> > The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
> > checkout subject.
>
> > We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us.
>
> > 1. � �ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> > customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> > teller-labor-costs.
>
> Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. �The best
> of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> mechanical function.

Those fees should be doubled, TRIPPLED!.

ATMs cost, they cost everyone, including those who don't use them; the
price of the machine, the installation, maintenance, security, and
there is still a certain amount of manual labor in accounting and
someone needs to fill it with $20s. There should be a fee, to the
immature idiots who are incapable of making one large cash withdrawal
say monthy and budgeting themselves... instead of using it like a
daily allowance titty from their mommy. I've never used an ATM,
they're unnecessary. An ATM costs substantially more than a human
teller... I resent having to subsidize the pinheads who use them so
they can save time at my expense.

Nancy2 wrote:
> On Nov 13, 11:44 am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the
>> self checkout subject.
>>
>> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing
>> to us.
>>
>> 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
>> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
>> teller-labor-costs.
>
> Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. The best
> of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> mechanical function.

I don't pay for ATM transactions because I only get money
from my bank's machines. I do my best to avoid fees. What
really frosts me is that they charge me $10 bucks a year for
the card. $10 for each of us. No getting around it.

nancy

Sheldon wrote:

> ATMs cost, they cost everyone, including those who don't use them; the
> price of the machine, the installation, maintenance, security, and
> there is still a certain amount of manual labor in accounting and
> someone needs to fill it with $20s. There should be a fee, to the
> immature idiots who are incapable of making one large cash withdrawal
> say monthy and budgeting themselves... instead of using it like a
> daily allowance titty from their mommy. I've never used an ATM,
> they're unnecessary. An ATM costs substantially more than a human
> teller... I resent having to subsidize the pinheads who use them so
> they can save time at my expense.

You don't even use cash. You're a grungy hermit never leaves the house
and you do all your shopping online.

-sw

In article
>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> On Nov 13, 11:44*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:

> > 1. * *ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> > customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> > teller-labor-costs.
>
> Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. The best
> of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> mechanical function.

I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some cash
back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money from a
foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for years,
but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Nov 13, 11:46*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
> On Nov 13, 11:44*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
> > The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
> > checkout subject.
>
> > We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us.
>
> > 1. * *ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> > customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> > teller-labor-costs.
>
> Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. *The best
> of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> mechanical function.
>
> N.

My evil stepmother works for a company that has something to do with
those ATM fees- not sure what she does, but she makes too much money
for her own good- can you say materialistic? I knew you could...

On Nov 13, 2:21*pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
> > "Dimitri" wrote:
>
> > > The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
> > > checkout subject.
>
> > > We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to us.
>
> > > 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> > > customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> > > teller-labor-costs.
>
> > Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> > ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. The best
> > of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> > mechanical function.
>
> Those fees should be doubled, TRIPPLED!.
>
> ATMs cost, they cost everyone, including those who don't use them; the
> price of the machine, the installation, maintenance, security, and
> there is still a certain amount of manual labor in accounting and
> someone needs to fill it with $20s. *There should be a fee, to the
> immature idiots who are incapable of making one large cash withdrawal
> say monthy and budgeting themselves... instead of using it like a
> daily allowance titty from their mommy. *I've never used an ATM,
> they're unnecessary. *An ATM costs substantially more than a human
> teller... I resent having to subsidize the pinheads who use them so
> they can save time at my expense.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Relax, Shel, the few times I've used ATMs, I go to the one at my own
banking institution = no fee. I'm just curious about the fees. Many
of the ones you cite are one-time costs. They still don't cost as
much as real people to do those transactins. Each to own, and all
that.

N.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:02:38 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> wrote:

>Relax, Shel, the few times I've used ATMs, I go to the one at my own
>banking institution = no fee.

So what's the problem then?

>I'm just curious about the fees.

It's called business. Would you pay a lawyer a retainer and then
expect another lawyer to go to court for you?

I've never heard a logical argument why another bank shouldn't charge
you for cash when your account is somewhere else. But you can try if
you're up to it.

>Many of the ones you cite are one-time costs. They still don't cost as
>much as real people to do those transactins.

That's absolutely irrelevant. Before ATMs were around another bank
would never give you any money unless you had an account.

>Each to own, and all that.

I guess.

Lou

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>
> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some cash
> back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money from a
> foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for years,
> but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>


It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
around.
Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
exchange. There is always one at the airport.

I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I don't
recall ever seeing one in the USA.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> >
> > I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
> > bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
> > my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some cash
> > back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money from a
> > foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for years,
> > but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
> >
> > --
> > Dan Abel
> > Petaluma, California USA
> >
>
>
> It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> around.
> Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>
> I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I don't
> recall ever seeing one in the USA.

I visit the free ATM several times a month to deposit checks. The first
question it asks me is whether I want English or Espanol.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:21:36p, Ed Pawlowski told us...

>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>>
>> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
>> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
>> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some
>> cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money
>> from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for
>> years, but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
>>
>> --
>> Dan Abel
>> Petaluma, California USA
>>
>
>
> It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> around.
> Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>
> I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
> don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.

In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.


--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Thursday, 11(XI)/13(XIII)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till U.S. Thanksgiving Day
1wks 6dys 3hrs 21mins
************************************************** **********************
Faith without works is dead. - James 2:26
************************************************** **********************

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> >
> > I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by
> > my bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash.
> > I use my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give
> > me some cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and
> > need money from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I
> > haven't done this for years, but I feel more secure knowing I have
> > the option.
> >
> > -- Dan Abel
> > Petaluma, California USA
> >
>
>
> It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> around. Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than
> any other exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>
> I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and
> I don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.

At least some of those in Minneapolis are bi-lingual: English and
Spanish.

--
Dan Goodman
..sig under reconstruction

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>>
>> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
>> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
>> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some cash
>> back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money from a
>> foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for years,
>> but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
>>
>> --
>> Dan Abel
>> Petaluma, California USA
>>
>
>
> It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> around.
> Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>
> I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
> don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.


In Southern California based upon the area - English, Spanish, Chinese,
Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese.

Dimitri

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>>
>> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
>> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
>> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some cash
>> back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money from a
>> foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for years,
>> but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
>>
>> --
>> Dan Abel
>> Petaluma, California USA
>>
>
>
> It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> around.
> Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>
> I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I don't
> recall ever seeing one in the USA.

While I can see English-only in, say rural South Dakota,
they're multilingual in Los Angeles. At least some of the ones for Wells
Fargo - my bank - used to default to Thai (and they weren't in Thai Town,
either). I'm glad they got that fixed.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

In article >,
says...
> Nancy2 wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 11:44 am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> >> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the
> >> self checkout subject.
> >>
> >> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing
> >> to us.
> >>
> >> 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
> >> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
> >> teller-labor-costs.
> >
> > Yup, I'm still trying to figure out why banks charge $1.50-$3.00 per
> > ATM transaction....I think the answer is, because they can. The best
> > of both worlds - no salaries, no benefits, plus a charge for a
> > mechanical function.
>
> I don't pay for ATM transactions because I only get money
> from my bank's machines. I do my best to avoid fees. What
> really frosts me is that they charge me $10 bucks a year for
> the card. $10 for each of us. No getting around it.
>
> nancy
>

Sometimes though your banks ATM's might be precious few where you work.
Both my co-worker and I have accounts with Sovereign and there are no
closeby ATM's for them near our office. There is however a Citizens
Bank.

The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it should
be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.

In article 7>,
says...
> On Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:21:36p, Ed Pawlowski told us...
>
> >
> > "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
> >> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
> >> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some
> >> cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money
> >> from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for
> >> years, but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dan Abel
> >> Petaluma, California USA
> >>
> >
> >
> > It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> > around.
> > Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> > exchange. There is always one at the airport.
> >
> > I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
> > don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.
>
> In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
> English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.
>
>
>

Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.

T wrote:

> In article >,
> says...

>> I don't pay for ATM transactions because I only get money
>> from my bank's machines. I do my best to avoid fees. What
>> really frosts me is that they charge me $10 bucks a year for
>> the card. $10 for each of us. No getting around it.

> Sometimes though your banks ATM's might be precious few where you
> work. Both my co-worker and I have accounts with Sovereign and there
> are no closeby ATM's for them near our office.

That irritating bank. Grrr. I read they've been taken over, maybe
you'll have more choices with the new bank. Till then I would get
enough cash from their ATM at any given time to hold you over,
rather than pay $1.50 to each bank. They get you coming and
going. It's a blatant ripoff.

> There is however a Citizens Bank.
>
> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.

I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
get away with.

nancy

T wrote:

> In article 7>,
> says...
>> On Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:21:36p, Ed Pawlowski told us...
>>
>> >
>> > "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
>> >> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
>> >> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some
>> >> cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money
>> >> from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for
>> >> years, but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Dan Abel
>> >> Petaluma, California USA
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
>> > around.
>> > Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
>> > exchange. There is always one at the airport.
>> >
>> > I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
>> > don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.
>>
>> In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
>> English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.
>
> Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.

http://mistervalium.com/m_pictures/drive-thru.jpg

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

T wrote:
>
> In article 7>,
> says...
> > On Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:21:36p, Ed Pawlowski told us...
> >
> > >
> > > "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
> > >> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
> > >> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some
> > >> cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money
> > >> from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for
> > >> years, but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Dan Abel
> > >> Petaluma, California USA
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> > > around.
> > > Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> > > exchange. There is always one at the airport.
> > >
> > > I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
> > > don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.
> >
> > In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
> > English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.

Blind people have been known to ride in cars. Amazingly enough, those
drive up ATMs are accessible to rear seat passengers, not just the
driver.

"Nancy Young" > wrote in news:SurTk.45627$ji.24017
@newsfe27.ams2:

> That irritating bank. Grrr. I read they've been taken over, maybe
> you'll have more choices with the new bank. Till then I would get
> enough cash from their ATM at any given time to hold you over,
> rather than pay $1.50 to each bank. They get you coming and
> going. It's a blatant ripoff.
>
>> There is however a Citizens Bank.
>>
>> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
>> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.
>
> I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
> that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
> get away with.
>
> nancy
>
>

I use a Credit Union...no fees for using their machines or anyother credit
union machine...only fees on on-line payments...$0.50 almost as cheap as a
stamp if you factor in the envelope. No charge on the card...no minimum
balance required...no hidden fees. Life is good.

--

The beet goes on -Alan

Pete C. wrote:
> T wrote:

>> Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.
>
> Blind people have been known to ride in cars. Amazingly enough, those
> drive up ATMs are accessible to rear seat passengers, not just the
> driver.

Rear seats? What'll they think of next?!


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

On Thu 13 Nov 2008 12:27:07p, news told us...

>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ster.com...
>>
>> Dimitri wrote:
>>>
>>> The thread on grocery stores has taken a little drift over to the self
>>> checkout subject.
>>>
>>> We need to stop and think for a minute about what business is doing to
>>> us.
>>>
>>> 1. ATM'S are a labor saving device - they are designed to have the
>>> customer do the data entry for their transaction thereby eliminating
>>> teller-labor-costs.
>>>
>>> 2. Why are Salad bars so popular - simple no labor involved to make
>>> the
>>> salads. The customer provides the labor and doesn't need to be
certified.
>>>
>>> 3. Self check out lanes - all that is necessary is 1 person to
monitor
>>> the lanes thereby eliminating retail clerk positions at $18.00 + per
hour
>>> (depends on the store and area & union not to mention the benefit load
of
>>> 25% to 30 % per employee)
>>>
>>> 4. Remember the "paperless society" and EDI (Electronic Data
>>> Interchange)? How it was supposed to simplify business - well it
>>> didn't -
>>> not we have to have a paper back-up for all transactions. How about
the
>>> retailer that charges a data entry fee to process a paper invoice -
>>> unusual?
>>> nope very common.
>>>
>>> Rant over....
>>>
>>> Want me to check my own groceries - sure give me a discount or pay me.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>
>> Anything that helps me avoid having to deal with an under trained, under
>> motivated, under paid and usually incompetent employee is a plus.
>
> After a long day at work or home, I simply do not wish to interact with
> another human being!

Exactly! Especially stupid ones. However, when I have a "better" day out
shopping, I enjoy seeking out the cashiers and clerks who maintain a
cheerful demeanor, can hold a brief intelligent exchange, and know their
job.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Saturday, 11(XI)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till U.S. Thanksgiving Day
1wks 4dys 23hrs 38mins
************************************************** **********************
My other TIME/SPACE machine is a TARDIS <<=- '...and with that
cryptic comment I'm off to bed' Stop with your lies. Reality is
what I say it is. Going back to the origin is called peace... Any

"Nancy Young" >> In article >
>> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
>> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.
>
> I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
> that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
> get away with.
> nancy

USAA FSB gives you back fees charged by other banks for ATM use, up to $20 a
month as I recall. I tend to take out a larger amount each time, so I never
have been chatged. It's a pretty terrific bank and very conservative, which
is why we who are its customers are not worried about our money.

Giusi wrote:
> "Nancy Young" >> In article >
>>> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
>>> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.
>>
>> I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
>> that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
>> get away with.
>> nancy
>
> USAA FSB gives you back fees charged by other banks for ATM use, up
> to $20 a month as I recall. I tend to take out a larger amount each
> time, so I never have been chatged. It's a pretty terrific bank and
> very conservative, which is why we who are its customers are not
> worried about our money.

I was going to say that some credit unions refund the fees, and
also there are online banks that do the same. Probably brick and
mortar banks, too, I just don't know which ones.

nancy

Nancy wrote on Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:07:51 -0500:

> Giusi wrote:
>> "Nancy Young" >> In article >
>>>> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction
>>>> but it should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction,
>>>> not $1 or more.
>>>
>>> I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling
>>> anyone that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge
>>> what they can get away with. nancy
>>
>> USAA FSB gives you back fees charged by other banks for ATM
>> use, up to $20 a month as I recall. I tend to take out a
>> larger amount each time, so I never have been chatged. It's a pretty
>> terrific bank and very conservative, which is why we
>> who are its customers are not worried about our money.

> I was going to say that some credit unions refund the fees,
> and also there are online banks that do the same. Probably
> brick and mortar banks, too, I just don't know which ones.

There are a number of usually smaller banks that refund ATM fees,
including sometimes foreign ones. The Provident Savings Bank (chartered
and insured) is one in my neighborhood that comes to mind.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> However, when I have a "better" day out
> shopping, I enjoy seeking out the cashiers and clerks who maintain a
> cheerful demeanor, can hold a brief intelligent exchange, and know their
> job.

Have you actually found one of those in the last couple decades?

hahabogus wrote:
>
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:SurTk.45627$ji.24017
> @newsfe27.ams2:
>
> > That irritating bank. Grrr. I read they've been taken over, maybe
> > you'll have more choices with the new bank. Till then I would get
> > enough cash from their ATM at any given time to hold you over,
> > rather than pay $1.50 to each bank. They get you coming and
> > going. It's a blatant ripoff.
> >
> >> There is however a Citizens Bank.
> >>
> >> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
> >> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.
> >
> > I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
> > that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
> > get away with.
> >
> > nancy
> >
> >
>
> I use a Credit Union...no fees for using their machines or anyother credit
> union machine...only fees on on-line payments...$0.50 almost as cheap as a
> stamp if you factor in the envelope. No charge on the card...no minimum
> balance required...no hidden fees. Life is good.

The best way to avoid bank fees is to work for the bank

Pete wrote on Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:19:50 -0600:


> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> However, when I have a "better" day out
>> shopping, I enjoy seeking out the cashiers and clerks who
>> maintain a cheerful demeanor, can hold a brief intelligent
>> exchange, and know their job.


>Have you actually found one of those in the last couple decades?

It may be a result of an apparent campaign by higher management to
rescue a failing business but the cashiers seem uniformly cheerful and
efficient in my local Giant store.

The efficiency does not necessarily extend to other branches. I wanted
to buy a single bottle of milk in the Gaithersburg branch and the two
payment lines open (including a 10 item one) were occupied by people
apparently shopping for orphanages or schools.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sat 15 Nov 2008 08:19:50a, Pete C. told us...

>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> However, when I have a "better" day out
>> shopping, I enjoy seeking out the cashiers and clerks who maintain a
>> cheerful demeanor, can hold a brief intelligent exchange, and know their
>> job.
>
> Have you actually found one of those in the last couple decades?
>

Actually, yes, and in more than one store. Their stocking clerks also know
exactly where a product is located when you ask. At the same time, I know
the ones to steer clear of.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Saturday, 11(XI)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till U.S. Thanksgiving Day
1wks 4dys 15hrs 36mins
************************************************** **********************
Only God can make a random selection.
************************************************** **********************

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:07:51 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> Giusi wrote:
>> "Nancy Young" >> In article >
>>>> The banks claim it's to cover the cost of the transaction but it
>>>> should be more like 5 cents or so per transaction, not $1 or more.
>>>
>>> I agree, but there's no chance they think they're fooling anyone
>>> that the fee is only to cover costs. They charge what they can
>>> get away with.
>>> nancy
>>
>> USAA FSB gives you back fees charged by other banks for ATM use, up
>> to $20 a month as I recall. I tend to take out a larger amount each
>> time, so I never have been chatged. It's a pretty terrific bank and
>> very conservative, which is why we who are its customers are not
>> worried about our money.
>
> I was going to say that some credit unions refund the fees, and
> also there are online banks that do the same. Probably brick and
> mortar banks, too, I just don't know which ones.
>
> nancy

but as i understand it, credit unions are not-for-profit institutions.
banks expect to make some money. when the traditional revenue streams
aren't measuring up, they start to slip in this other jazz.

but now some banks are competing with 'no a.t.m. fees!' and the like.

and to guisi, no one should worry about their money (under $250,000) in an
f.d.i.c.-insured bank. if they should go under we're all in some very deep
shit.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:40:18 -0500, T wrote:

> In article 7>,
> says...
>>
>> In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
>> English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.
>>
>
> Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.

t, i don't know if this is your intent, but it kind of bugs me that most
people think this is ineffably stupid. the estimable cecil adams addresses
the question:

Anyway, you asked a question, and by God you are going to get an answer.
Drive-up ATM buttons are marked with braille because federal regulations
require it. To be specific, section 4.34.4 of the ADA Accessibility
Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities (Appendix to Part 1191, 36 CFR
Chapter XI, issued pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990)
says, "Instructions and all information for use [of an automated teller
machine] shall be made accessible to and independently usable by persons
with vision impairments." Drive-up ATMs, unlike the walk-up variety, don't
need to be wheelchair accessible, but the rules make no exception regarding
accessibility by the blind.

You're now thinking: boy, those federal bureaucrats sure are stupid. Don't
they realize a blind person isn't going to be able to drive to a drive-up
ATM? Cecil reserves judgment on the stupidity question, but even if the
feds weren't smart enough to notice this little problem on their own, there
were plenty of people who pointed it out for them before the rule was
finalized. The American Bankers Association, for one, asked that drive-up
machines be exempt from the visually-impaired requirement, arguing that a
blind person using a drive-up ATM would have to be a passenger and that the
driver of the vehicle could help with the transaction.

No dice, said the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance
Board, reasoning that driver assistance "would not allow the [blind]
individual to use the ATM independently." This may sound like one of those
absurd points of principle, but ATM manufacturers say a fair number of
blind people do take cabs to drive-up ATMs, and nobody wants to ask a total
stranger to help with a financial transaction.

<http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-drive-up-teller-machines>

and apart from that, why would you have two different standards and two
different machines for drive-up and stand-alone a.t.m.'s?

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" >
>> Giusi wrote:
>>> USAA FSB gives you back fees charged by other banks for ATM use, up>>>
>>> to $20 a month as I recall. I tend to take out a larger amount each>>>
>>> time, so I never have been charged. It's a pretty terrific bank and
>>> very conservative, which is why we who are its customers are not>>>
>>> worried about our money.
> but now some banks are competing with 'no a.t.m. fees!' and the like.
>
> and to guisi, no one should worry about their money (under 250,000) in an>
> f.d.i.c.-insured bank. if they should go under we're all in some very
> deep> shit.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I'm aware that my money is unsured, although I have no idea how long it
takes to get it. I am also aware that I would not like to have to find a
new bank and set up all necessary accounts from here. It's almost all
illegal if it wasn't set up before you left the US. Imagine the BS involved
if your bank goes under!

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I do not have over $250000 in my checking
account.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 07:25:27 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Thu 13 Nov 2008 12:27:07p, news told us...
>
>>
>> After a long day at work or home, I simply do not wish to interact with
>> another human being!
>
> Exactly! Especially stupid ones. However, when I have a "better" day out
> shopping, I enjoy seeking out the cashiers and clerks who maintain a
> cheerful demeanor, can hold a brief intelligent exchange, and know their
> job.

maybe i'm a lonely old man, but i sorta enjoy joshing with a couple of
different checkers where i shop. but then, i go at non-peak times when
things aren't to hectic. most of them are pretty smart (union shop), not
bored teenagers.

i'm also not going after dealing with foolish persons at work, so i guess
that's part of it.

your pal,
blake

Giusi wrote:

> I'm aware that my money is unsured, although I have no idea how long
> it takes to get it.

I had some money get caught up in the Indy Mac failure,
it took maybe 3 weeks to get my money back because it
was under a brokerage account. If you were a regular customer,
the rollover to the takeover authority was seamless.

> I am also aware that I would not like to have to
> find a new bank and set up all necessary accounts from here. It's
> almost all illegal if it wasn't set up before you left the US.
> Imagine the BS involved if your bank goes under!

With any luck, you would have all your info, whatever, just
taken over, not actually have to start over with a new bank.
I didn't know what a hassle you had to go through, being an
ex-patriot or whatever.

> Fortunately, or unfortunately, I do not have over $250000 in my
> checking account.

Wow, I thought everyone had that in their checking.

nancy

In article .com>,
says...
>
> T wrote:
> >
> > In article 7>,
> > says...
> > > On Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:21:36p, Ed Pawlowski told us...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm not having a problem with this. If I go to a machine owned by my
> > > >> bank, there's no fee. If I'm going to travel, I take some cash. I use
> > > >> my ATM card to buy stuff. If I go to a store, they'll give me some
> > > >> cash back, too, if I need it. If I have an emergency, and need money
> > > >> from a foreign ATM, well, it's worth it to me. I haven't done this for
> > > >> years, but I feel more secure knowing I have the option.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Dan Abel
> > > >> Petaluma, California USA
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is nice to know you can get cash and not have to carry large sums
> > > > around.
> > > > Traveling to Europe I use the ATM to get money cheaper than any other
> > > > exchange. There is always one at the airport.
> > > >
> > > > I also find that just about every ATM in Europe is multi-lingual and I
> > > > don't recall ever seeing one in the USA.
> > >
> > > In Arizona just about every ATM appears to at least be bi-lingual in
> > > English/Spanish. So, too, are most of the self-checkout machines.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Here in RI even the drive-up ATM's have braile.
>
> Blind people have been known to ride in cars. Amazingly enough, those
> drive up ATMs are accessible to rear seat passengers, not just the
> driver.
>

But the machines don't speak. They make the requisite beeps but
otherwise they don't speak.