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Default How's this for an invitation


"T" > wrote in message
>
> That's something that doesn't happen with my circle of friends. The only
> standing order is that if you don't like something or most things on the
> menu then you're welcome to bring a dish of your own.
>
> Otherwise no requirements. Food and wine are provided at the event by us
> since we are after all the ones hosting.
>
> Some people just don't understand the concept.


If you can't afford it, don't have it. If I invite someone I want their
company, not their price of admission.

OTOH, we often have informal get-togethers with two to four couples that
are close friends. To spread the workload a bit we'll offer to bring
something, usually a dessert or an appetizer. Sometimes we'll get a phone
call "I bought a big turkey on sale, come on over for dinner" and if my wife
is baking the reply will be "OK, I have a pie in the oven so I'll bring it".


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Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Serene wrote:
>
>>>> There's no need to give excuses, especially ones that are easily seen
>>>> through. It's fine just to say, "Oh, sorry, we won't be able to
>>>> make it
>>>> (or "we have other plans that night"). Have a wonderful time!"
>>>
>>> But that *is* an easy-to-reveal excuse unless you plan to abandon your
>>> house that evening simply to avoid being caught in a lie.

>>
>> Nonsense. "We have other plans" doesn't say whether the plans are outside
>> or inside your home. It's not a lie at all, even if your only other
>> plans
>> are to be as far from that party as possible.

>
> Mendacity. "We have other plans," while vague enough to TECHNICALLY mean
> very little, in context implies that you have some SPECIAL plans for the
> evening involving something other than sitting around the house. If the
> hostess finds that you were staying at home that evening, and that's
> what your "other plans" were, don't you think she'd be insulted?


If she's nosy enough to poke around about what my plans are, she
deserves any insult she receives. My other plans are not her business,
and it's perfectly polite to just demur from an invitation without
giving elaborate explanations. Mostly, I just say, "I can't make it,
but have a great time!"

>>> Why not tell the REAL truth? "I'd like to come to your party, but I
>>> think it would be too much of a burden for me to provide two
>>> expensive bottles of wine and roasted beef tenderloin for twenty
>>> people, most of whom are strangers to me."

>>
>> I might do that for someone I was close to. For a casual acquaintance, I
>> think a polite "no, thank you" suffices and creates the least drama.

>
> I agree that a simple "No, thank you" (with no further embellishment)
> would suffice, but that's a completely different answer than your
> earlier recommendation of saying, "We have other plans."


I disagree. It's no more different from understanding that strangers
who say "Hi, how are you?" aren't actually asking for a detailed
description of how you are.

> As I see it,
> I'm answering a rude request by telling the truth. You're answering a
> rude request by evading the truth. Which behavior do you think will
> result in future rudeness from that person?


It is okay to just avoid people one finds to be rude. A few declined
invitations, and maybe she'll get the picture. As I said, if it's
someone I'm close to, and feel an obligation to educate on this matter,
I might be more frank. If it's some stranger who is just asking me for
odd things out of the blue, "No, thank you" or some approximation is
really sufficient, in my view.

>
> (Before this degenerates too much further, I should mention that I have
> nothing but the highest esteem for Serene.)


Oh, likewise, I'm sure. I didn't think it had degenerated at all. I
think that manners and the responses to bad manners are important
topics, and heck, dinner invitations are even almost on-topic. :-)

Serene
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "T" > wrote in message
>> That's something that doesn't happen with my circle of friends. The only
>> standing order is that if you don't like something or most things on the
>> menu then you're welcome to bring a dish of your own.
>>
>> Otherwise no requirements. Food and wine are provided at the event by us
>> since we are after all the ones hosting.
>>
>> Some people just don't understand the concept.

>
> If you can't afford it, don't have it. If I invite someone I want their
> company, not their price of admission.


EXACTLY!!

>
> OTOH, we often have informal get-togethers with two to four couples that
> are close friends. To spread the workload a bit we'll offer to bring
> something, usually a dessert or an appetizer. Sometimes we'll get a phone
> call "I bought a big turkey on sale, come on over for dinner" and if my wife
> is baking the reply will be "OK, I have a pie in the oven so I'll bring it".


Right. This is totally different from "Come on over, and by the way,
bring dinner".

Serene
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Serene wrote:

> It is okay to just avoid people one finds to be rude.


Normally, I'd just agree and shut up. But in this particular case, I had
misread the original post and thought that the hostess had been described as
"a wonderful kind woman, not much of a cook, but really nice, and lives in a
lovely home in a nice neighbourhood." If that had been the case, then the
hostess would obviously have redeeming qualities which could offset this
particular aberrant rudeness.

A closer reading reveals that that description had actually been applied to
the person being invited, not to the hostess. The hostess herself had only
been described as "the chef's wife." Presumably, this is a case of the OP
(Dave Smith) following the adage, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say
anything at all."

And I'm now reminded that Dave has posted here about his "Big Niece." Here
are a couple samples from his posts:


| Big Niece... can be counted on to show up early and it is a struggle to
| keep her away from the food. She once showed up at her step sister's place
| uninvited when the step sister was expecting company, but she was invited
| to stay, "helped" in the kitchen and ate ALL the food before the invited
| guests arrived


* After all the food is served and people sit down to eat you have to keep
* an eye on her. No matter the variety of dishes set out for guests, the
* niece will sneak back into the kitchen and root around through the fridge
* and cupboards and take whatever she fancies, even opening boxes of soda
* crackers and breakfast cereals.
*
* Her food theft is legendary. I once hid a double batch of chocolate chop
* cookies in the far corner of the bottom shelf of a lower cabinet behind
* the pots and pans. After she left I discovered that she had found them.
* She ate the entire double batch, almost 5 dozen cookies. That same day
* she sampled the apple pie I had made for dessert. She was not content to
* take a small slice. Not even a large slice. She ate the middle of the pie.
* Not only was there not enough for us, even if the host and hostess did
* without, but the pie was ruined. Who would want a slab of crust?
*
* The last time she was at our house, and I am now confident it will be the
* last time, I saw her descend upon the Devilled Eggs and cheese platter. By
* the time I came out a few minutes later the whole batch of eggs (I had use
* a dozen eggs, so there were 2 dozen little devils) were gone, and she was
* into the cheese.

Dave, you sure run into some odd people!

Bob

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aem wrote:

> Stories like this are confusing. At first glance they may seem
> outrageous, but there can be mitigating circumstances. For one thing,
> "lovely home in a nice neighborhood" may mean they all have plenty of
> money and $200 as the cost of contributing to a special party for her
> husband may seem insignificant to the chef's wife.


They seem outrageous because they are. There may be some people who would
not be offended, but our friend certainly was. Rich people don't expect
their friends to pay to come to their parties.


> For another, wives
> sometimes misjudge how close the friendship is between their husbands
> and third parties. She may have thought they were close enough that
> they'd welcome a big role in this surprise party. Then again, the
> chef's wife just may be thoughtless.


I suppose that it may be a matter of having mistakenly over estimated the
relationship and thinking that our friend would be delighted to spend
$200 to help surprise the husband. However, when our friend declined, the
wife then over estimated the relationship with another neighbour who was
invited in place of our friend. She was upset enough at the gall of the
chef's wife that she called our friend. Imagine how that woman would have
felt if she was a second string invitation, having been invited only after
our friend had declined.



> I guess my point is to not be
> too quick to lambaste her on the basis of a second or third hand
> report. Misunderstandings between neighbors have spawned a lot of
> case studies for sociologists and lawyers. -aem




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"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Serene wrote:
>
>>>> There's no need to give excuses, especially ones that are easily seen
>>>> through. It's fine just to say, "Oh, sorry, we won't be able to make
>>>> it
>>>> (or "we have other plans that night"). Have a wonderful time!"
>>>
>>> But that *is* an easy-to-reveal excuse unless you plan to abandon your
>>> house that evening simply to avoid being caught in a lie.

>>
>> Nonsense. "We have other plans" doesn't say whether the plans are outside
>> or inside your home. It's not a lie at all, even if your only other
>> plans
>> are to be as far from that party as possible.

>
> Mendacity. "We have other plans," while vague enough to TECHNICALLY mean
> very little, in context implies that you have some SPECIAL plans for the
> evening involving something other than sitting around the house. If the
> hostess finds that you were staying at home that evening, and that's what
> your "other plans" were, don't you think she'd be insulted?
>
>
>
> Bob


If someone invites you to provide $200 worth of food and wine for their
dinner party and you decline saying you have "other plans" and then don't
leave the house and the hostess is insulted where's the downside? If she's
insulted she won't be inviting you to provide for her dinner parties any
longer.


Ms P

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"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
news
> On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:41:38 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"aem" > wrote
>>
>>>On May 30, 5:50 pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> You hear stories like this and every time you do it's just as
>>>> incredible. Okay, I think asking to bring the main course is
>>>> weird, but maybe if she'd offered to pay for it? Still. But then,
>>>> telling her what wines to bring?? Hello, pick it up yourself, that
>>>> takes no skill!

>>
>>>Stories like this are confusing. At first glance they may seem
>>>outrageous, but there can be mitigating circumstances. For one thing,
>>>"lovely home in a nice neighborhood" may mean they all have plenty of
>>>money and $200 as the cost of contributing to a special party for her
>>>husband may seem insignificant to the chef's wife. For another, wives
>>>sometimes misjudge how close the friendship is between their husbands
>>>and third parties. She may have thought they were close enough that
>>>they'd welcome a big role in this surprise party.

>>
>>And when that didn't work out, she thought the other neighbor was
>>close enough to welcome that role?
>>
>>I've seen crazy stories like this before. People throwing a party in
>>a restaurant, then when it was over, dividing the bill among the
>>surprised "guests" ... things like that.

>
> I wouldn't pay anything if it was an invited party, and it would end
> the friendship.
>
> I have a family member who threw a birthday party for one of the kids
> at a pizza joint. The kid got at least 2 grand in cash and gifts.
> $100 from me. When the bill came, family member complained how
> expensive it was having kids and these parties, and mentioned the bill
> was $196. Was I supposed to "pitch in" for the 2 beers and piece of
> pizza I already paid $100 for? A few weeks later the family members
> wife was complaining about people who give checks and gift
> certificates rather than cash because she has to run the kids around
> to take care of things. That was the last birthday party we went to
> and we don't send gifts to their kids either. Unfortunately idiots
> sometimes reside in your own family. My/our friends would never be
> so tacky as we've chosen them well.
>
> Lou


I know, the family ones are the worst. Had a SIL who, if you purchased
something for her kids, would, in the middle of the festivities, ask for the
receipt, so as she so bluntly put it.....'could take it back for the cash'
and then announce that SHE would keep the cash as the kids would be too
irresponsible to handle it and after all it did cost CASH MONEY to raise the
little ingrates. We have been 'busy' since that time whenever we are
invited to this 'family' do.
-ginny


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On May 30, 7:51�pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> I have a friend who is �a wonderful kind woman, not much of a cook, but
> really nice, and lives in a lovely home in a nice neighbourhood. One of
> her neighbour's is a chef. The chef's wife called and invited her and
> her husband to a party for her chef husband. Our friend and the chef
> family had been to a party at my brother's where my nephew had cooked a
> quick roasted beef tenderloin fir a short time in a very hot oven.
>
> Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend and asked if she could
> bring that dish. She also asked her to bring two bottles of wine, one
> red and one white. She specified which wines. �Then chef's wife asked
> her to bring enough of the meat dish for 20. The date of the party is
> also our friend's birthday.
>
> Current prices for a whole beef tenderloin around her are about $80. The
> wines turn out to be $20 a piece. My friend was not thrilled. She
> discussed it with her husband, who said screw that we'll have our own
> party her for that money. She called back the chef's wife, clarified the
> date..... ooops sorry. I didn't know that my husband had planned a party
> for me here on that night so sorry, but we can't make it.
>
> The next day she got a call from another neighbour asking if she was
> attending the party. �Our friend said they had been invited but could
> not attend because her husband was having a party for her. It seems that
> � chef's wife had called the other neighbour after our friend canceled
> and asked her to bring the two beef tenderloins... and two bottles of
> wine. �So our friend asked the other neighbour if she was going....... no
> way !!
>
> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way to
> decline the invitation. �I am not sure how I would react to an
> "invitation to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no problem
> with a pot luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin for 20
> people plus $40 worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.


Gee, if they can't afford beef tenderloin I would strongly suggest
they change their menu to tube steak.

What's to think... when I host a party I pay, not my invited guests...
they can bring a host gift if they choose but not something they
expect me to serve, it won't happen unless it's flowers. When I host
a dinner I pay for everything, I make the menu, I prepare everything
and no one helps, in fact I permit no one to enter my kitchen while
its in operation. I stipulate to every guest as one of the provisions
of their invite is that they are not to bring any viands they expect
me to serve... they ain't gonna fercockt up my menu.

I make exceptions for cook-outs... then I permit guests to bring their
own steak and grill it themself, in fact I prefer folks bring and
grill their own steak, then they are responsible for how it's cooked
and tastes... but I don't let guests grill steaks I paid for (not even
tube steak). And don't bring chicken or pork or fish or lamb or any
weirdness to my beef steak fest unless you bring your own grill.

To answer your question, in case I wasn't clear, when I'm invited to a
party with the stipulation that I bring the food, to feed folks I
don't even know, I decline, and I give no reason.... why should I feel
I have to lie by saying I have a previous engagement, it's none of
their beeswax why I decline.

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"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way
>> to decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an
>> "invitation to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no
>> problem with a pot luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin
>> for 20 people plus $40 worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.

>
> Greater justice would be to agree to it,
> then at the last minute "I've got the flu".


Unfortunately, with people this obtuse you would be asked 'well, can't you
just drop it off before you go home to nurse your flu?' They wouldn't give
a rip about spreading germs, just getting the free feed.
-ginny


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Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Serene wrote:
>
>>>> There's no need to give excuses, especially ones that are easily seen
>>>> through. It's fine just to say, "Oh, sorry, we won't be able to
>>>> make it
>>>> (or "we have other plans that night"). Have a wonderful time!"
>>>
>>> But that *is* an easy-to-reveal excuse unless you plan to abandon your
>>> house that evening simply to avoid being caught in a lie.

>>
>> Nonsense. "We have other plans" doesn't say whether the plans are outside
>> or inside your home. It's not a lie at all, even if your only other
>> plans
>> are to be as far from that party as possible.

>
> Mendacity. "We have other plans," while vague enough to TECHNICALLY mean
> very little, in context implies that you have some SPECIAL plans for the
> evening involving something other than sitting around the house. If the
> hostess finds that you were staying at home that evening, and that's
> what your "other plans" were, don't you think she'd be insulted?
>
>
>
>>> Why not tell the REAL truth? "I'd like to come to your party, but I
>>> think it would be too much of a burden for me to provide two
>>> expensive bottles of wine and roasted beef tenderloin for twenty
>>> people, most of whom are strangers to me."

>>
>> I might do that for someone I was close to. For a casual acquaintance, I
>> think a polite "no, thank you" suffices and creates the least drama.

>
> I agree that a simple "No, thank you" (with no further embellishment)
> would suffice, but that's a completely different answer than your
> earlier recommendation of saying, "We have other plans." As I see it,
> I'm answering a rude request by telling the truth. You're answering a
> rude request by evading the truth. Which behavior do you think will
> result in future rudeness from that person?
>
> (Before this degenerates too much further, I should mention that I have
> nothing but the highest esteem for Serene.)
>
> Bob


You people shame my lack of social skills - I'm afraid I'd have found it
irresistibly humorous to repeat what the lady had requested as though
jotting it down in a notebook, and then saying "My catering fee will be
$500, and I require payment two days prior to the event."


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On Sat, 31 May 2008 07:04:21 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Fri 30 May 2008 08:16:07p, told us...
>
>> On Sat, 31 May 2008 02:15:46 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri 30 May 2008 04:51:03p, Dave Smith told us...
>>>
>>>> I have a friend who is a wonderful kind woman, not much of a cook,
>>>> but really nice, and lives in a lovely home in a nice neighbourhood.
>>>> One of her neighbour's is a chef. The chef's wife called and invited
>>>> her and her husband to a party for her chef husband. Our friend and
>>>> the chef family had been to a party at my brother's where my nephew
>>>> had cooked a quick roasted beef tenderloin fir a short time in a very
>>>> hot oven.
>>>
>>>The chef's wife is nothing but a conniving cheap bitch! I'd see her in
>>>hell before I'd get sucked into that.

>>
>> Wayne, quit pussyfooting around and tell us how you really feel ;-)
>>
>> koko

>
>Koko, traits of people that bother me the most are those that are
>insulting, humiliating, taking advantage, and dishonesty. Unfortunately,
>some people have all of them. I have a high tolerance for many other
>things, but not those. I wish I could keep my mouth shut sometimes, but I
>can't always manage it. I think it actually bothers me more when it
>happens to other people than when it happens to me.


I hear you Wayne, and agree whole heartedly.

koko
---
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updated 5/25
"There is no love more sincere than the love of food"
George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 31 May 2008 06:52:44 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:

<snipped for space>
>
> I have nothing against people bringing food to a party. This one went
> far beyond a simple pot luck or special request.


Well said, Nancy.

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

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On Sat, 31 May 2008 04:20:38 -0700, Serene Vannoy
> wrote:

>Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>> Serene responded:
>>
>>> There's no need to give excuses, especially ones that are easily seen
>>> through. It's fine just to say, "Oh, sorry, we won't be able to make it
>>> (or "we have other plans that night"). Have a wonderful time!"

>>
>> But that *is* an easy-to-reveal excuse unless you plan to abandon your
>> house that evening simply to avoid being caught in a lie.

>
>Nonsense. "We have other plans" doesn't say whether the plans are
>outside or inside your home. It's not a lie at all, even if your only
>other plans are to be as far from that party as possible.
>
> > Why not tell
>> the REAL truth? "I'd like to come to your party, but I think it would be
>> too much of a burden for me to provide two expensive bottles of wine and
>> roasted beef tenderloin for twenty people, most of whom are strangers to
>> me."

>
>I might do that for someone I was close to. For a casual acquaintance, I
>think a polite "no, thank you" suffices and creates the least drama.
>
>Serene


i agree. an invitation is just that, not a bench warrant. of course,
some people will be rude enough to say 'why not?,' but **** 'em.

or there's always 'i have a hot date with the pastor's wife.'

your pal,
blake
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"Nancy Young" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote


>> First mistake. There are potlucks, and there are acceptable limits. You
>> just do not tag a person to a meal for *your party* then tell them what
>> to bring. Especially 'pork loin for 20 plus wine'.

>
> Beef tenderloin, no less! That's a luxury purchase even for myself, never


Oh I missed that! Worse yet on the pocket book! I was adding up to 200$
with the wine at 20$ a bottle and 'wine for 20'. That would be about 6
bottles or 120$ at least for that. (It would not do to promise to bring the
wine for 20, then bring less than enough for 3 glasses per guest).

> mind some person I'm not close to. Heck, if a friend is a very good one
> and you're given to trading big favors, it would be a different story.


True. We used to do some outdoor grilling parties here with our neighbors.
I have the big grill but couldnt always afford to buy steaks for the group
of us (9 total usually among 4 families), so I'd take care of the grill and
charcol, sodas, beer, wine, fruit, cheese, fresh bread (breadmaker), veggies
to grill, plates, eating utensils, cups etc etc. They'd take turns bringing
whatever main dish meat was affordable to them. So, sometimes it would be
hotdogs, other times burgers, chicken, or even once in a while we'd get
steaks. Yes, we took our turn with the meat provision and when we did that,
the others provided the sides (except I still did the bread).

Grin, they liked it when it was our turn as we'd usually have 5-6 servings
of various things and you'd pick your fancy. Knowing them, we knew that 5-6
servings of seafood was enough as 3 didnt like seafood. So, there would be
a group of smallish trout, and some shrimp etc plus some kielbasa. By
common agreement the leftovers went to Jimmy who was medically retired
widower on a fixed income. (Grin, oh Jimmy, could you take the extras home?
My fridge is stuffed). Jimmy also always provided the ice (he'd make it
through the week til he had some 12 trays bagged up).

On Jimmy's turn, we cheerfully had chicken franks which he'd doctor up with
various sauces from my cabinets (and again with cheer, listed as a side dish
I was to bring).

This is as you can see quite different from the 'cooks wife'. We merely
took turns and didnt quibble if only some of us could afford 'steaks' and
even then, not always the really nice thick T-bones. Heck, I remember Joe's
wife calling once to say he scored some nice ones but there were only 6 left
and could I come up with some idea to make that work? Sure Sadie! I came
up with a bag of 18 nice cherry stone clams and we 6 seafood eaters all
happily split 3 of the steaks ending up with leftovers.

> In the past, when my mother still held holiday dinners at her place,
> I routinely brought the main course, sides & dessert to take the load
> off her. I think that's normal. It's too much to ask her to do all that
> work at her age, by herself.


Oh definately. MIL and I used to do that. She lived 2 miles from us so
before FIL died we'd eat at her place for Thanksgiving and Xmas but we'd
bring the ham or fish (she'd do a small turkey). After the FIL died, she'd
come to our place and we'd do the bird (turkey or rotissery dryrub chicken)
and she'd bring a second meat to match it. Don's family tradition was 2
meats at such meals. I wow'd them the first time with a whole baked stuffed
red salmon. Don had told them I could cook but they didnt believe him til
then <G>.

> I have nothing against people bringing food to a party. This one went
> far beyond a simple pot luck or special request.


Agreed. Unless it was like my simple BBQ gatherings, it wasnt done in good
taste and even at ours, the 'special requests' were for less expensive
things, generally side dishes.

Gosh, I really miss having Jimmy come over to 'help me make my side dish
sauces' for his chicken franks! Mae Ploy type sweet chili sauce, molasses,
honey, green bell pepper, blender to mix, and whatever seemed right of the
spice cabinet that day. Other times would get other mixes but that one we
all loved the best. Who'd think 2$ worth of chicken franks could be so
good! His was the only 'meat' we requested over and over <G>.


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Nancy Young wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote
>
>> Giusi wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>
>>>> the chef family had been to a party at my brother's where my nephew
>>>> had cooked a quick roasted beef tenderloin fir a short time in a
>>>> very hot oven. Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend
>>>> and asked if she
>>>> could bring that dish. She also asked her to bring two bottles of
>>>> wine, one red and one white. She specified which wines. Then
>>>> chef's wife asked her to bring enough of the meat dish for 20. The
>>>> date of the party is also our friend's birthday.
>>>
>>> It never ceases to amaze me at how clueless and rude people dare to
>>> be. I love potluck but potluck is defined by being a grab bag, not
>>> an order what you want, other than perhpas which course.
>>>
>>> So said neighbor puts the hit on everybody, sets a pretty table and
>>> then takes credit for having entertained eleagantly. Next thing you
>>> know she's chastising people who don't entertain, telling them that
>>> it is easy and hardly expensive at all.

>>
>> As it is her birthday, she has a good reason to decline the
>> invitation.

>
> You mean Another good reason. (laugh)


hmmmm yes You know what I mean)




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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
m...
>


<story snipped>

> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way to
> decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an "invitation
> to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no problem with a pot
> luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin for 20 people plus $40
> worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.



On the surface the presumptiveness of the lady seems quite out of place
however:

1. Is this a very affluent neighborhood?

2. Is every other neighborhood car a Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, or Beemer
SUV?

3. Do the people in question cook and entertain for the neighbors quite
often?

4. If they entertain the neighbors do they furnish all the food & drinks
or do people bring more that a customary hostess bottle of wine gift?

5. Or is it just plain Chutzpah?


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)


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On Sat 31 May 2008 04:42:01a, Bob Terwilliger told us...

> Serene wrote:
>
>>>> There's no need to give excuses, especially ones that are easily seen
>>>> through. It's fine just to say, "Oh, sorry, we won't be able to make
>>>> it (or "we have other plans that night"). Have a wonderful time!"
>>>
>>> But that *is* an easy-to-reveal excuse unless you plan to abandon your
>>> house that evening simply to avoid being caught in a lie.

>>
>> Nonsense. "We have other plans" doesn't say whether the plans are
>> outside or inside your home. It's not a lie at all, even if your only
>> other plans are to be as far from that party as possible.

>
> Mendacity. "We have other plans," while vague enough to TECHNICALLY mean
> very little, in context implies that you have some SPECIAL plans for the
> evening involving something other than sitting around the house. If the
> hostess finds that you were staying at home that evening, and that's
> what your "other plans" were, don't you think she'd be insulted?


Given the situation, she deserves to be insulted. That was unmitigated
gall to make such a request.

>>> Why not tell the REAL truth? "I'd like to come to your party, but I
>>> think it would be too much of a burden for me to provide two expensive
>>> bottles of wine and roasted beef tenderloin for twenty people, most of
>>> whom are strangers to me."

>>
>> I might do that for someone I was close to. For a casual acquaintance,
>> I think a polite "no, thank you" suffices and creates the least drama.

>
> I agree that a simple "No, thank you" (with no further embellishment)
> would suffice, but that's a completely different answer than your
> earlier recommendation of saying, "We have other plans." As I see it,
> I'm answering a rude request by telling the truth. You're answering a
> rude request by evading the truth. Which behavior do you think will
> result in future rudeness from that person?
>
> (Before this degenerates too much further, I should mention that I have
> nothing but the highest esteem for Serene.)


I, as well.

> Bob
>
>




--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 05(V)/31(XXXI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Chicken Boo what's the matter with you??
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none" <""Mark\"@(none) wrote:
> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>> Serene wrote:
>>
>> I agree that a simple "No, thank you" (with no further embellishment)
>> would suffice, but that's a completely different answer than your
>> earlier recommendation of saying, "We have other plans." As I see it,
>> I'm answering a rude request by telling the truth. You're answering a
>> rude request by evading the truth. Which behavior do you think will
>> result in future rudeness from that person?
>>
>> (Before this degenerates too much further, I should mention that I
>> have nothing but the highest esteem for Serene.)
>>
>> Bob

>
> You people shame my lack of social skills - I'm afraid I'd have found
> it irresistibly humorous to repeat what the lady had requested as
> though jotting it down in a notebook, and then saying "My catering
> fee will be $500, and I require payment two days prior to the event."


Most excellent response! How many would think of something like that on the
fly, though?

Jill


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Dimitri wrote:

> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> m...
> >

>
> <story snipped>
>
> > I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way to
> > decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an "invitation
> > to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no problem with a pot
> > luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin for 20 people plus $40
> > worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.

>
> On the surface the presumptiveness of the lady seems quite out of place
> however:
>
> 1. Is this a very affluent neighborhood?


Yes it is. It is one of the most affluent neighbourhood in the city they live
in, the one where all the wealthiest families lived in the old city, before the
urban sprawl.

>
> 2. Is every other neighborhood car a Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, or Beemer
> SUV?


Lots of expensive cars on their street.


> 3. Do the people in question cook and entertain for the neighbors quite
> often?


I don't know about the other neighbours, but our friend has at least a half
dozen parties per year, often dinner parties for which she hires a caterer. Some
of the neighbours are invited. She also has my brother and wife down at least
twice a month and buys good steaks, which my brother cooks because she and her
husband just don't cook.


> 4. If they entertain the neighbors do they furnish all the food & drinks
> or do people bring more that a customary hostess bottle of wine gift?


She always provides everything, canapés, dinner, dessert, wine and full bar.

> 5. Or is it just plain Chutzpah?


With a capital "Ch"
I was stunned. Personally, I have no problem with pot lucks. One friend has a
special pot luck dinner every year and I always look forward to it. I make sure
to prepare something special. I expect to take a bottle of wine, either one for
the party or one for the hostess to drink later, or both. In my books, a pot
luck involves taking enough food to feed us, plus several others. Being
expected to bring enough of the most expensive cut of beef to feed 20
people????? And being told which wine to bring???
That is just plain wrong and in too many ways.



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On Sat 31 May 2008 06:19:43a, Virginia Tadrzynski told us...

>
> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way
>>> to decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an
>>> "invitation to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no
>>> problem with a pot luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin
>>> for 20 people plus $40 worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.

>>
>> Greater justice would be to agree to it, then at the last minute "I've
>> got the flu".

>
> Unfortunately, with people this obtuse you would be asked 'well, can't
> you just drop it off before you go home to nurse your flu?' They
> wouldn't give a rip about spreading germs, just getting the free feed.
> -ginny
>
>
>


You could follow that up with, "I was too ill to shop".

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 05(V)/31(XXXI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Plan to be more spontaneous.
-------------------------------------------






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On Sat 31 May 2008 03:52:44a, Nancy Young told us...

>
> "cshenk" > wrote
>
>> "Dave Smith" wrote
>>
>>>I have a friend who is a wonderful kind woman, not much of a cook, but
>>>really nice, and lives in a lovely home in a nice neighbourhood. One of
>>>her neighbour's is a chef. The chef's wife called and invited her and
>>>her husband to a party for her chef husband. Our friend and the chef
>>>family had been to a party at my brother's where my nephew had cooked a
>>>quick roasted beef tenderloin fir a short time in a very hot oven.
>>>
>>> Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend and asked if she
>>> could bring that dish. She also asked her to bring two bottles of
>>> wine, one red and one white. She specified which wines. Then chef's
>>> wife asked her to bring enough of the meat dish for 20. The date of
>>> the party is also our friend's birthday.

>>
>> First mistake. There are potlucks, and there are acceptable limits.
>> You just do not tag a person to a meal for *your party* then tell them
>> what to bring. Especially 'pork loin for 20 plus wine'.

>
> Beef tenderloin, no less! That's a luxury purchase even for myself,
> never mind some person I'm not close to. Heck, if a friend is a very
> good one and you're given to trading big favors, it would be a different
> story. There
> are people who I wouldn't begrudge bringing the main course and the
> wine, there would have to be some weird situation for it to come up,
> though. My friends wouldn't call me, come on over for Ray's birthday,
> and bring food and wine for 20! Come on!
>
> In the past, when my mother still held holiday dinners at her place,
> I routinely brought the main course, sides & dessert to take the load
> off her. I think that's normal. It's too much to ask her to do all
> that work at her age, by herself.


Yes, I would have taken the whole damn meal to my mother's and been very
happy to do it.

> I have nothing against people bringing food to a party. This one went
> far beyond a simple pot luck or special request.


It's one thing to ask a friend if they would mind bringing a appetizer,
side dish, or dessert. It's quite another to be so presumptive as to ask
an acquaintance to provide the entire dinner for 20.

In my "crowd" no one ever asks anyone to bring anything, but almost every
guest will ask if there's anything they can bring. I rarely say yes,
unless it's one of my closest friends and they have a specialty that they
like to bring, or if I'm very pressed for time. Even then, I will usually
say "let me pay you for the ingredients".

Having said that, most often friends will bring something unannounced, say
a bottle or two of wine or a special dessert. I welcome that and always
return the favor.

This woman is either crude and stupid, or cunning like a fox.

> nancy
>
>

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 05(V)/31(XXXI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't vote--it only encourages them!
-------------------------------------------




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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Dimitri wrote:
>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> m...
>> >

>>
>> <story snipped>
>>
>> > I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way to
>> > decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an
>> > "invitation
>> > to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no problem with a pot
>> > luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin for 20 people plus
>> > $40
>> > worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.

>>
>> On the surface the presumptiveness of the lady seems quite out of place
>> however:
>>
>> 1. Is this a very affluent neighborhood?

>
> Yes it is. It is one of the most affluent neighbourhood in the city they
> live
> in, the one where all the wealthiest families lived in the old city,
> before the
> urban sprawl.
>
>>
>> 2. Is every other neighborhood car a Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, or
>> Beemer
>> SUV?

>
> Lots of expensive cars on their street.
>
>
>> 3. Do the people in question cook and entertain for the neighbors
>> quite
>> often?

>
> I don't know about the other neighbours, but our friend has at least a
> half
> dozen parties per year, often dinner parties for which she hires a
> caterer. Some
> of the neighbours are invited. She also has my brother and wife down at
> least
> twice a month and buys good steaks, which my brother cooks because she and
> her
> husband just don't cook.
>
>
>> 4. If they entertain the neighbors do they furnish all the food &
>> drinks
>> or do people bring more that a customary hostess bottle of wine gift?

>
> She always provides everything, canapés, dinner, dessert, wine and full
> bar.
>
>> 5. Or is it just plain Chutzpah?

>
> With a capital "Ch"
> I was stunned. Personally, I have no problem with pot lucks. One friend
> has a
> special pot luck dinner every year and I always look forward to it. I make
> sure
> to prepare something special. I expect to take a bottle of wine, either
> one for
> the party or one for the hostess to drink later, or both. In my books, a
> pot
> luck involves taking enough food to feed us, plus several others. Being
> expected to bring enough of the most expensive cut of beef to feed 20
> people????? And being told which wine to bring???
> That is just plain wrong and in too many ways.
>


The reason I mention this and have those questions is because some people
just have no point of reference or live in a world where the circumstances
of others are inconceivable.

A friends wife was given the task of monitoring the front of the her kids
grade school on the opening day of school. This was in Beverly Hills CA.
Her job was to tell people if they wanted to take their kids in to pull into
the playground, and park there. A woman (from another country pulled up in
her Rolls parked the car right dead in front of the school and proceeded to
walk her child in. Etta stopped the lady and told her it was unlawful to
park there and if she did the fine for illegal parking in front of the
school was $300.00. The woman looked right at Etta and said "OK" meaning
the $300.00 was Ok to charge her.

I guess to that woman $300.00 had no significance.

I suspect this may be the same case, where the woman just simply does not
have a point of reference. If that is the case the real question becomes
should she be told that a $250.00 invitation just ain't kosher!
--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 31 May 2008 06:19:43a, Virginia Tadrzynski told us...
>
>>
>> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice
>>>> way to decline the invitation.


I missed this. Please could your recount how she did so?


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Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
> > Beef tenderloin, no less! That's a luxury purchase even for myself,
> > never mind some person I'm not close to. Heck, if a friend is a very
> > good one and you're given to trading big favors, it would be a different
> > story. There
> > are people who I wouldn't begrudge bringing the main course and the
> > wine, there would have to be some weird situation for it to come up,
> > though. My friends wouldn't call me, come on over for Ray's birthday,
> > and bring food and wine for 20! Come on!
> >
> > In the past, when my mother still held holiday dinners at her place,
> > I routinely brought the main course, sides & dessert to take the load
> > off her. I think that's normal. It's too much to ask her to do all
> > that work at her age, by herself.

>
> Yes, I would have taken the whole damn meal to my mother's and been very
> happy to do it.


My mother used to have the whole family for dinners, especially at Christmas.
The last time she was planning to do it she had already done her shopping and
and baking but called a week before and asked if I would take the turkey,
Christmas pudding etc and do it at our place. After that, my older brother and
I alternated hosting the Christmas dinners while other brothers went to their
in-laws. When going to large functions like that I always offer to bring
something. I appreciate the logistical problems. My kitchen just isn't large
enough to deal with a feast for a lot of people and I would rather bring
something to help out and give the host and hostess time with the other
guests.


> > I have nothing against people bringing food to a party. This one went
> > far beyond a simple pot luck or special request.

>
> It's one thing to ask a friend if they would mind bringing a appetizer,
> side dish, or dessert. It's quite another to be so presumptive as to ask
> an acquaintance to provide the entire dinner for 20.


Not just meat for 20.... beef tenderloin for two, and named two high priced
wine.... at least high priced for a large group. I would spend more than 20
on wine for a friend who know wine. I am not shelling out that kind of money
for people I don't even know.

> This woman is either crude and stupid, or cunning like a fox.


I am not sure how I would get out of an "invitation" like that. I would
probably say no and explain that I thought it was an invitation, not a request
to cater to her other friends for free.

I don't know how many people actually showed up for the party, or if anyone
brought the filets, but my brother had a good time at the friend's party.....
and he didn't have to take anything :-)


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Janet Baraclough wrote:

>
>
> If invited to a meal provided entirely by the host, normal practice
> here is for guests to bring a bottle of their own choosing. For the host
> to tell a guest which wine to bring, would be viewed as unbelievably
> crass.


I have a friend who is into wine in a big way. It is common for him to ask
what we are serving and how we are cooking it, because he will be bringing
some very good wine to pair with it. When we go there I will take some
nice wines, usually something from one of the local wineries and one of
those which he had called to recommend..... and no.. he did not recommend
them for that occasions. He regularly calls to let me know about some of
the exceptional local wines that I should stock up on.




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On Sat 31 May 2008 09:59:26a, Janet Baraclough told us...

> The message >
> from Wayne Boatwright > contains these words:
>
>> On Sat 31 May 2008 12:35:15a, Mark Thorson told us...

>
>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way
>> >> to decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an
>> >> "invitation to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no
>> >> problem with a pot luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin
>> >> for 20 people plus $40 worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.
>> >
>> > Greater justice would be to agree to it, then at the last minute "I've
>> > got the flu".
>> >

>
>> Brilliant!

>
> Even better, would be to turn up wearing a hearing aid, and carrying
> a small meatloaf .
>
> Janet
>


ROTF!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 05(V)/31(XXXI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Question anything that starts
'Obviously...'
-------------------------------------------



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Ophelia wrote:

>
> >>>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice
> >>>> way to decline the invitation.

>
> I missed this. Please could your recount how she did so?


She called back to clarify the night, then said she was sorry but her
husband was throwing a party a party for her that night. .... and they
did have their own party.

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Dave Smith wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>>>>>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice
>>>>>> way to decline the invitation.

>>
>> I missed this. Please could your recount how she did so?

>
> She called back to clarify the night, then said she was sorry but her
> husband was throwing a party a party for her that night. .... and they
> did have their own party.


Wonderful!!! Thank you Dave)


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jmcquown wrote:
> none" <""Mark\"@(none) wrote:
>> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>> Serene wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree that a simple "No, thank you" (with no further embellishment)
>>> would suffice, but that's a completely different answer than your
>>> earlier recommendation of saying, "We have other plans." As I see it,
>>> I'm answering a rude request by telling the truth. You're answering a
>>> rude request by evading the truth. Which behavior do you think will
>>> result in future rudeness from that person?
>>>
>>> (Before this degenerates too much further, I should mention that I
>>> have nothing but the highest esteem for Serene.)
>>>
>>> Bob

>> You people shame my lack of social skills - I'm afraid I'd have found
>> it irresistibly humorous to repeat what the lady had requested as
>> though jotting it down in a notebook, and then saying "My catering
>> fee will be $500, and I require payment two days prior to the event."

>
> Most excellent response! How many would think of something like that on the
> fly, though?
>
> Jill
>
>

Good point - I often find myself saying things without thinking that are
both sarcastic and somewhat witty. I don't know where they come from,
but I get into a great deal of trouble because of them.
Self control - that's it. Where can I download that?
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Nancy Young wrote:

> I've seen crazy stories like this before. People throwing a party in
> a restaurant, then when it was over, dividing the bill among the
> surprised "guests" ... things like that.


It's so common among my peer group to throw parties in restaurants with
the full expectation that everyone will pay her/his own way, that I
don't even think twice I just decline the invitations to my friends'
parties if they're going to be in restaurants.

Serene


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Dimitri wrote:

> I suspect this may be the same case, where the woman just simply does
> not have a point of reference. If that is the case the real question
> becomes should she be told that a $250.00 invitation just ain't kosher!


Was she raised in a barn?

My feeling is that she knows darned well it's not Kosher, but to some
people having money means not having to play by the same rules as the
rest of society.
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
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Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Wayne Boatwright > contains these words:
>
>> On Sat 31 May 2008 12:35:15a, Mark Thorson told us...

>
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> I have to hand to to our friend that she was able to find a nice way
>>>> to decline the invitation. I am not sure how I would react to an
>>>> "invitation to a party" that is going to cost me $200. I have no
>>>> problem with a pot luck, but being expected to supply beef tenderloin
>>>> for 20 people plus $40 worth of wine is a bit much, IMHO.
>>> Greater justice would be to agree to it,
>>> then at the last minute "I've got the flu".
>>>

>
>> Brilliant!

>
> Even better, would be to turn up wearing a hearing aid, and carrying
> a small meatloaf .
>
> Janet


LOL! That was priceless.

Texas Janet

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
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On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:11:38 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:

>"Lou Decruss" wrote
>
>> It sounds like the people are social misfits. I usually decline when

>
>Or just clueless, or make so much more than their neighbors (nice
>neighborhood doesnt indicate much, I live in a nice one too but we dont have
>200$ a person gifts of potluck foods going around!).


$200 may have a different impact on different peoples budget as a few
here claim they can eat a whole month on that. BUT even if you're
rich, it's still $200 and I think they know that. The woman sounds
like a "favor-grabbing" asshole.

>> people ask what they can bring unless I know they're big drinkers.

>
>I find the standard 'BYOB' acceptable for a backyard party at my house.


I always have plenty, but people always bring plenty more. Usually
there's more leftover after a party then before guests arrive because
they bring so much.

We have friends with a large boat that has several beers on tap. We
bring wine for them to drink another time by themselves, and drink the
beer from the tap. It all works out. The parties they throw are
potluck and we make sure we bring good food. You're not going to get
re-invited to a multi-million boat by being a cheap asshole.

>> the host should always provide the main dish. IMO

>
>Yup at my yard, I have the burgers and such. At work, being senior I
>provide a main dish as well if another hasnt got something special they want
>to share. Work ones are small, just 6 of us. I'm the only one who makes
>bread so normally thats what they want me to do. A chance to get some good
>stuff intead of 'wonderbread-white-gunk'.


Bread is always a good thing to bring if you make your own. I don't
know anyone who makes it, so it's always received well when I show up
with a few loaves and a spread of some sort.

Lou
















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Default How's this for an invitation

On May 30, 4:51*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend and asked if she could
> bring that dish. She also asked her to bring two bottles of wine, one
> red and one white. She specified which wines. *Then chef's wife asked
> her to bring enough of the meat dish for 20. The date of the party is
> also our friend's birthday.


I'm curious about something.

Did friend ask, "May I bring something?"

I always wonder if this is in the equation. If she didn't ask if she
could bring something, and chef's wife asked her to bring stuff,
that's beyond rude. If friend asked if she could bring something,
that's another thing. But, the expensive grocery list is way out of
line!

Karen
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Default How's this for an invitation

On May 31, 12:09*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> I am not sure how I would get out of an "invitation" like that. I would
> probably say no and explain that I thought it was an invitation, not a request
> to cater to her other friends for free.
>
> I don't know how many people actually showed up for the party, or if anyone
> brought the filets, but my brother had a good time at the friend's party......
> and he didn't have to take anything :-)


I just figured out what she was thinking.

She was thinking that her husband was such a great chef that she could
treat friends to experience his wonderful culinary talents and that
supplying the groceries would be a screaming deal for them.

Karen


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Default How's this for an invitation

Karen wrote:

> I just figured out what she was thinking.
>
> She was thinking that her husband was such a great chef that she could
> treat friends to experience his wonderful culinary talents and that
> supplying the groceries would be a screaming deal for them.


However, the request was not for raw materials:

"Our friend and the chef family had been to a party at my brother's
where my nephew had cooked a quick roasted beef tenderloin fir a short
time in a very hot oven.

Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend and asked if she
could bring that dish."




Brian

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I was recently invited to a birthday party a friend was giving for
himself....or so we thought. It was at a very good Chinese restaurant
in SF. When the bill was presented to him, he looked it over and
announced how much it would be per person. We were all shocked and 2
men excused themselves to go to the nearest ATM. Doing this was so out
of character for the birthday boy....I wonder what he was thinking.

Have a happy Sunday and a good week,

Ellie

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I agree with Michael....VERY TACKY! I would have gone along if it were
a charity thing....
Best wishes,
Ellie

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Default How's this for an invitation

ellie1999 wrote:

>
> I agree with Michael....VERY TACKY! I would have gone along if it were
> a charity thing....
> Best wishes,


I'd say something about learning how to quote, but I'd have to change my
special header, so I won't bother.

--
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The Usenet Improvement Project --> http://improve-usenet.org
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Karen wrote:

> On May 30, 4:51 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> > Chef's wife extended this invitation to my friend and asked if she could
> > bring that dish. She also asked her to bring two bottles of wine, one
> > red and one white. She specified which wines. Then chef's wife asked
> > her to bring enough of the meat dish for 20. The date of the party is
> > also our friend's birthday.

>
> I'm curious about something.
>
> Did friend ask, "May I bring something?"


I can't be sure about that, but I had the impression that it was more along
the line of chef's wife inviting them to a party and then asking her to bring
the beef tenderloin dish and the two expensive wines and btw... make sure you
bring enough for 20.

> I always wonder if this is in the equation. If she didn't ask if she
> could bring something, and chef's wife asked her to bring stuff,
> that's beyond rude. If friend asked if she could bring something,
> that's another thing. But, the expensive grocery list is way out of
> line!


Indeed.... way out of line. It wouldn't be so bad if she had been asked to
bring a canapés, a dessert or salad. I was flabbergasted that the woman would
ask her to bring the meat dish, that it be for 20 people and that it be for
the most expensive cut of beef. That's just wrong. I am sure that our friend
would have taken wine and FWIW, neither our friend or her husband drink.



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