Miche wrote:
>
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > In rec.food.cooking, Miche > wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > In rec.food.cooking, Miche > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > What is your favorite brand of coffee and why do you like it?
> > > >
> > > > > Fairtrade. It tastes good and the growers are paid fair prices for
> > > > > their produce.
> > > >
> > > > Fairtrade is not a brand, but a program.
> >
> > > Same diff, it says "Fairtrade" on the bag.
> >
> > Yep. But it comes from a bunch of different sources. It is a
> > certification, like "Organic".
>
> Ours says where it came from, generally.
>
> > Just as a point of interest, Fairtrade guarantees the farmers a minimum
> > price per pound, but farmers get greatly in excess of the Fairtrade price
> > for truly superior coffee at auction. So while Fairtrade offers a very
> > good program for farmers, they can do even better by improving their
> > quality to the point where they produce truly superior coffee.
>
> And some may do that. I don't know.
>
> > > > Everything else you said is
> > > > correct. In general, fairtrade coffee is fairly good. Not the finest,
> > > > but fairly good.
> >
> > > And that's good enough for me. It's more important to me that the
> > > growers are paid a fair price for their produce than I have "picked
> > > today, roasted ten minutes ago, hand ground" wanky coffee.
> >
> > But the wanky coffee yields a better price to the farmer than Fairtrade.
>
> But it's priced so that I can't afford to buy it.
>
> Miche
>

And the last statement about standard coffee yielding a better price to
the farmer is generally not true. The brokers and people in the middle
take the largest cut; the farmers are often in debt year after year.
That is the basis for Fairtrade coffee: the people growing the coffee
get *more* money than they would through the usual channels. The coops
formed eliminate most of those brokers who would otherwise take most of
the profit.

Fairtrade coffee is never too expensive. I cut down my coffee
consumption in order to buy Fairtrade. In the UK it wasn't more
expensive than any other decent coffee and most of the supermarkets
feature it anyway.

While it is still considered a little 'exotic' here locally (In NM) it's
still worth it to me.

Coffee in the US is extremely cheap. Yet the brokers and the roaster and
the retailer make money off of that. The grower gets the smallest cut of
all, as with much agricultural produce.

In rec.food.cooking, Arri London > wrote:

> > > Just as a point of interest, Fairtrade guarantees the farmers a minimum
> > > price per pound, but farmers get greatly in excess of the Fairtrade price
> > > for truly superior coffee at auction. So while Fairtrade offers a very
> > > good program for farmers, they can do even better by improving their
> > > quality to the point where they produce truly superior coffee.
> >


> And the last statement about standard coffee yielding a better price to
> the farmer is generally not true.

Nobody here made any such statement. "Standard" coffee doesn't even yield
enough to the farmer to put food on his table. "Truly superior coffee",
OTOH, yields more to the farmer than Fairtrade coffee.


The brokers and people in the middle
> take the largest cut; the farmers are often in debt year after year.
> That is the basis for Fairtrade coffee: the people growing the coffee
> get *more* money than they would through the usual channels. The coops
> formed eliminate most of those brokers who would otherwise take most of
> the profit.

If you are comparing Fairtrade to commodity coffee production, you are
correct. But nobody here is discussing commodity coffee production.


> Fairtrade coffee is never too expensive. I cut down my coffee
> consumption in order to buy Fairtrade. In the UK it wasn't more
> expensive than any other decent coffee and most of the supermarkets
> feature it anyway.

My point is that "other decent coffee" can yield more to the farmer than
Fairtrade coffee, and "truly superior coffee" usually yields more.

> While it is still considered a little 'exotic' here locally (In NM) it's
> still worth it to me.

Good for you.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

wrote:
>
> In rec.food.cooking, Arri London > wrote:
>
> > > > Just as a point of interest, Fairtrade guarantees the farmers a minimum
> > > > price per pound, but farmers get greatly in excess of the Fairtrade price
> > > > for truly superior coffee at auction. So while Fairtrade offers a very
> > > > good program for farmers, they can do even better by improving their
> > > > quality to the point where they produce truly superior coffee.
> > >
>
> > And the last statement about standard coffee yielding a better price to
> > the farmer is generally not true.
>
> Nobody here made any such statement. "Standard" coffee doesn't even yield
> enough to the farmer to put food on his table. "Truly superior coffee",
> OTOH, yields more to the farmer than Fairtrade coffee.

I don't think so but don't have a cite to hand. It's the people in the
middle who get the most money.

>
> The brokers and people in the middle
> > take the largest cut; the farmers are often in debt year after year.
> > That is the basis for Fairtrade coffee: the people growing the coffee
> > get *more* money than they would through the usual channels. The coops
> > formed eliminate most of those brokers who would otherwise take most of
> > the profit.
>
> If you are comparing Fairtrade to commodity coffee production, you are
> correct. But nobody here is discussing commodity coffee production.
>
> > Fairtrade coffee is never too expensive. I cut down my coffee
> > consumption in order to buy Fairtrade. In the UK it wasn't more
> > expensive than any other decent coffee and most of the supermarkets
> > feature it anyway.
>
> My point is that "other decent coffee" can yield more to the farmer than
> Fairtrade coffee, and "truly superior coffee" usually yields more.

Not really certain of that. After all the growers (the people who do the
work) in most countries don't own the coffee plantations.

>
> > While it is still considered a little 'exotic' here locally (In NM) it's
> > still worth it to me.
>
> Good for you.
>
It's good for everyone

In rec.food.cooking, Arri London > wrote:

> Not really certain of that. After all the growers (the people who do the
> work) in most countries don't own the coffee plantations.

That is a good point. Fairtrade pays the landowners, but I have always
wondered about their workers.

You might be interested in Googling for informatin about the Hacienda La
Minita in Costa Rica. They produce truly superior coffee, and the owner
is legendary for treating his workers well. He sets up schools for their
kids, etc.

La Minita is usually more expensive than other coffees from Tarrazu, but
the quality alone is worth the premium, not to mention the good work the
owner has done.

His coffee is not Fairtrade.



> It's good for everyone

I can't disagree. I think Fairtrade is a Good Thing. Another organization
which directly helps farmers and workers is CoffeeKids. They are worth
contributing to, and in some circles, have a better reputation than
Fairtrade.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

wrote:
>
> In rec.food.cooking, Arri London > wrote:
>
> > Not really certain of that. After all the growers (the people who do the
> > work) in most countries don't own the coffee plantations.
>
> That is a good point. Fairtrade pays the landowners, but I have always
> wondered about their workers.

No... primarily Fairtrade (at least that sold in the UK) try to form
coops so the growers can become landowners. When that isn't possible,
they ensure that the growers are paid fair wages, get healthcare and
housing and the children get an education, even if they must work in the
fields.
>
> You might be interested in Googling for informatin about the Hacienda La
> Minita in Costa Rica. They produce truly superior coffee, and the owner
> is legendary for treating his workers well. He sets up schools for their
> kids, etc.
>
> La Minita is usually more expensive than other coffees from Tarrazu, but
> the quality alone is worth the premium, not to mention the good work the
> owner has done.
>
> His coffee is not Fairtrade.

It probably is, even if the trademark isn't used. The point isn't the
trademark, but the conditions and fairness to all involved.

>
> > It's good for everyone
>
> I can't disagree. I think Fairtrade is a Good Thing. Another organization
> which directly helps farmers and workers is CoffeeKids. They are worth
> contributing to, and in some circles, have a better reputation than
> Fairtrade.

Haven't heard that before (the better reputation that is).
>
>

In rec.food.cooking, Arri London > wrote:

> When that isn't possible,
> they ensure that the growers are paid fair wages, get healthcare and
> housing and the children get an education, even if they must work in the
> fields.

I didn't know that.

> > La Minita is usually more expensive than other coffees from Tarrazu, but
> > the quality alone is worth the premium, not to mention the good work the
> > owner has done.
> >
> > His coffee is not Fairtrade.

> It probably is, even if the trademark isn't used. The point isn't the
> trademark, but the conditions and fairness to all involved.

That's begging the question. Fairtrade is a trademark of the Fairtrade
Foundation, which certifies other companies' output. La Minita Coffee is
not certified by the Fairtrade Foundation, and therefore, by definition,
is not Fairtrade coffee.

Despite not being Fairtrade, the owner of the plantation treats his
workers well.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who