In a sickening turn of previous policy the Democrats are proving to be
the worst kind pandering
money grubbers. Without a thought to the future of America's working
class the "limousine liberals" overwhelming support the wage-
depresssing and population boosting immigration bill before Congress.
Not a thought as to the environmental impact of radically increased
population numbers, not a thought to the dissolution of American
culture. What scum. (This is non-partisan
as Bush, Senator Juan McCain, Sen. Spector, are simply garbage.)

ted

populist site:

http://www.vdare.com/ V-Dare

On 2007-06-14, Ted > wrote:

> depresssing and population boosting immigration bill before Congress.
> Not a thought as to the environmental impact of radically increased
> population numbers, not a thought to the dissolution of American
> culture. What scum. (This is non-partisan
> as Bush, Senator Juan McCain, Sen. Spector, are simply garbage.)

Yep. It's been going on for 30 yrs. Initially, it was to bust the
unions and it worked brilliantly. After the entire construction
industry was flushed clean of dirty commie union members and just
plain ol' blue collar working stiffs trying to raise a family, they
were replaced by quiet, docile, illegals. You been to a contruction
site lately? Se habla Espanol. So, carpenters are now making about
the same or less than they did 30 yrs ago, depite housing prices
increasing by 30X!

Next was hi-tech. You can't move offshore? Bring 'em here!! You
think we let all those Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, and Filipino
refugees into this country post Vietnam because we felt sorry for them
and were trying to do the right thing? Silly you. The booming
Silicon Valley needed warm bodies. Cheap warm bodies.

Finally, not even the professionals were safe. A new cheapo resource
was found in India. Cookie cutter engineers fresh out of their rote
learning factories chomped onto US's H1B visas like starving fish on a
worm. Pols couldn't use the old lie of "they do the work others are
unwilling to do". They had to invent a new one about how America's
colleges aren't supplying sufficient or smart enough engineers
anymore. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of tough, smart, experienced US
engineers, IT, and programmers who were laid off during the dot com
crash watched, agonized, as their careers, homes, and families
disintergrated while trying to find a job. Meanwhile, the pols upped
the H1B quota again and again (they're trying again!!).
Arrrrrgghhhh!!

nb, back... away... from.... the... keyboard.....

(I gotta stop before I rupture a vein)

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-06-14, Ted > wrote:
>
>> depresssing and population boosting immigration bill before Congress.
>> Not a thought as to the environmental impact of radically increased
>> population numbers, not a thought to the dissolution of American
>> culture. What scum. (This is non-partisan
>> as Bush, Senator Juan McCain, Sen. Spector, are simply garbage.)
>
> Yep. It's been going on for 30 yrs. Initially, it was to bust the
> unions and it worked brilliantly. After the entire construction
> industry was flushed clean of dirty commie union members and just
> plain ol' blue collar working stiffs trying to raise a family, they
> were replaced by quiet, docile, illegals. You been to a contruction
> site lately? Se habla Espanol. So, carpenters are now making about
> the same or less than they did 30 yrs ago, depite housing prices
> increasing by 30X!
>
> Next was hi-tech. You can't move offshore? Bring 'em here!! You
> think we let all those Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, and Filipino
> refugees into this country post Vietnam because we felt sorry for them
> and were trying to do the right thing? Silly you. The booming
> Silicon Valley needed warm bodies. Cheap warm bodies.
>
> Finally, not even the professionals were safe. A new cheapo resource
> was found in India. Cookie cutter engineers fresh out of their rote
> learning factories chomped onto US's H1B visas like starving fish on a
> worm. Pols couldn't use the old lie of "they do the work others are
> unwilling to do". They had to invent a new one about how America's
> colleges aren't supplying sufficient or smart enough engineers
> anymore. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of tough, smart, experienced US
> engineers, IT, and programmers who were laid off during the dot com
> crash watched, agonized, as their careers, homes, and families
> disintergrated while trying to find a job. Meanwhile, the pols upped
> the H1B quota again and again (they're trying again!!).
> Arrrrrgghhhh!!
>
> nb, back... away... from.... the... keyboard.....
>
> (I gotta stop before I rupture a vein)
>
> nb
>
>
>
>
In 1980 as a house Carpenter, if I did not like the crew I worked with, I
could quit at noon, and after lunch start a new non-union Job at $24.00 an
hour. By 1990 you would be lucky to find and start a Job for $15.00 an hour.
It is worse now because the Federal Reserve Note unbacked by gold is worth
less, $1.00 minimum wage in 1960 with gold at $35.27 an ounce, is equal to
the buying power of $18.60 an hour with gold now $650.00 an ounce. Now if
you make less than $18.60 an hour, you will go bankrupt. They did this
because of the end of the Arms Race with the Soviet Union meant they would
have to pay less to workers to keep the Industrial Military Complexes
running, and all the conflicts in the middle east are just so the Industrial
Military Complexes will stay in business.

In service of God and Country

Joseph

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:41:50 -0500, notbob > wrote:

>On 2007-06-14, Ted > wrote:
>
>> depresssing and population boosting immigration bill before Congress.
>> Not a thought as to the environmental impact of radically increased
>> population numbers, not a thought to the dissolution of American
>> culture. What scum. (This is non-partisan
>> as Bush, Senator Juan McCain, Sen. Spector, are simply garbage.)
>
>Yep. It's been going on for 30 yrs. Initially, it was to bust the
>unions and it worked brilliantly. After the entire construction
>industry was flushed clean of dirty commie union members and just
>plain ol' blue collar working stiffs trying to raise a family, they
>were replaced by quiet, docile, illegals. You been to a contruction
>site lately? Se habla Espanol. So, carpenters are now making about
>the same or less than they did 30 yrs ago, depite housing prices
>increasing by 30X!

All you need to do is watch HGTV. They don't pretend. You want to
do it cheap, hire cheap labor.... I'm not saying cheap labor can't do
a good job because I had one guy who was a "pick up" for me. I swear
that guy was like Popeye! He was small, but mighty. That short guy
helped a six foot white guy lift very heavy rocks. He looked like a
skinny little shrimp, but every time he lifted something his arm
muscles popped out just like in the PopEye cartoons. He was a very
nice man and we paid him more than he asked because he was such a hard
worker. I wish we could go back to the old (seasonal) guest worker
programs.
>
>Next was hi-tech. You can't move offshore? Bring 'em here!! You
>think we let all those Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, and Filipino
>refugees into this country post Vietnam because we felt sorry for them
>and were trying to do the right thing? Silly you. The booming
>Silicon Valley needed warm bodies. Cheap warm bodies.
>
But we *can* go off shore, we are outsourcing to India. It's not
working out (they even get lessons on sounding "American"), but we
continue to do it anyway because it's cheaper.

>Finally, not even the professionals were safe. A new cheapo resource
>was found in India. Cookie cutter engineers fresh out of their rote
>learning factories chomped onto US's H1B visas like starving fish on a
>worm.

I can't comment about "cookie cutter", but students from the Indian
Institutes of Technology are from *the* NUMBER ONE tech schools in the
world. They graduate the best of the best and every graduate is
spoken for. It's too bad they have to work for so little. Think
about it. We used to "brain drain" other countries, so the US
doesn't have a corner on who's "smart". Great minds are being bought
as slave labor now. It's a lose, lose situation.

> Pols couldn't use the old lie of "they do the work others are
>unwilling to do".

Other professions like medicine and education do it. Engineering is
just another rung on the ladder. Education is the field they can't
outsource to another country with a straight face. They lie about
being unable to fill positions so they can hire forefingers, but the
people they hire are competent and earnest in my experience.

>They had to invent a new one about how America's
>colleges aren't supplying sufficient or smart enough engineers
>anymore. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of tough, smart, experienced US
>engineers, IT, and programmers who were laid off during the dot com
>crash watched, agonized, as their careers, homes, and families
>disintergrated while trying to find a job. Meanwhile, the pols upped
>the H1B quota again and again (they're trying again!!).
>Arrrrrgghhhh!!
>
>nb, back... away... from.... the... keyboard.....
>
>(I gotta stop before I rupture a vein)

Take a breath. I feel your pain (patting NB on the shoulder).


--
See return address to reply by email

On 2007-06-15, sf <sf> wrote:

> All you need to do is watch HGTV. They don't pretend. You want to
> do it cheap, hire cheap labor....

Well, that's the whole problem, isn't it. It matters not whether they
are here illgally and are breaking any number of laws. The bottom
line is, you saved money. So, it's perfectly OK, right? So, what
other laws is it ok to break just because you benefit?

> I can't comment about "cookie cutter", but students from the Indian
> Institutes of Technology are from *the* NUMBER ONE tech schools in the
> world. They graduate the best of the best....

Yeah, they're all freakin' geniuses. In the meantime, I'm still
waiting for that first Indian IBM or Intel or Google or a single
decent car or airplane or.... (continue endless list on your own)

> about it. We used to "brain drain" other countries, so the US
> doesn't have a corner on who's "smart".

Yeah, and parents all over the World are sending their kids to India
for an education instead of the US.

> people they hire are competent and earnest in my experience.

So are migrant workers, but do you want one operating on you?

I'm not saying foreigners are stupid. They are not. They all have
strengths and weaknesses, as do we. But, in my 20 yrs in the hi-tech
industry, I did notice some things that made me go hmmmm.... One was
that Americans seem to be better at critical thinking. Maybe not
better, but it seems to come more natural than other cultures. I
noticed over and over some culture's ability to perform their job,
often brilliantly, was dependent soley on their reservoir of past
experience. But, confronted with a new problem, they were often
stymied. It was difficult to take fact A along with fact B and come
of with conclusion C.

This is what I meant earlier about rote learning. It's one thing to
memorize years and years of facts and figures, but being able to
utilize this knowledge to come up with new and original knowledge is
essential. Otherwise, it's useless. So, getting great grades and
whipping facts off the top of one's head is impressive, but what good
is it. Innovation and creativity are the key. I realize much of this
is cultural, as I said before.

Basic sociology reveals mixed cultures are more likely to originate
knowlege than mono cultures. This only makes sense and the US is a
prime example. But, innovation alone is not without its shortcomings.
What good is it if it can't be used or deployed effectively or
efficiently.....

To read the rest of this rambling blather, you must log in or
register.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2007-06-15, sf <sf> wrote:
>
>> I can't comment about "cookie cutter", but students from the Indian
>> Institutes of Technology are from *the* NUMBER ONE tech schools in
>> the world. They graduate the best of the best....
>
> Yeah, they're all freakin' geniuses. In the meantime, I'm still
> waiting for that first Indian IBM or Intel or Google or a single
> decent car or airplane or.... (continue endless list on your own)
>
A lot of the programmers I worked with were from India. They may not be
cranking out their own inventions but the programs they wrote were very
complex (I did the QA Testing, adding input from an end-user standpoint).
They were quick to incorporate my suggestions to make the software more
user-friendly. Bugs were fixed pronto and sent back for re-testing prior to
release. They were all very bright people AND they had all become U.S.
citizens.

Jill

On 2007-06-15, jmcquown > wrote:
> release. They were all very bright people AND they had all become U.S.
> citizens.

Good for them.

nb

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-06-15, sf <sf> wrote:
>
> > All you need to do is watch HGTV. They don't pretend. You want to
> > do it cheap, hire cheap labor....
>
> Well, that's the whole problem, isn't it. It matters not whether they
> are here illgally and are breaking any number of laws. The bottom
> line is, you saved money. So, it's perfectly OK, right? So, what
> other laws is it ok to break just because you benefit?
>
> > I can't comment about "cookie cutter", but students from the Indian
> > Institutes of Technology are from *the* NUMBER ONE tech schools in the
> > world. They graduate the best of the best....
>
> Yeah, they're all freakin' geniuses. In the meantime, I'm still
> waiting for that first Indian IBM or Intel or Google or a single
> decent car or airplane or.... (continue endless list on your own)
>


Yeah, innovation is not their strong suit. Until recently the best -
selling car in India was the Hindustan Ambassador, a direct copy of a
50 year - old British car (an Austin or something...). They are
rather sclerotic in this regard...


> > about it. We used to "brain drain" other countries, so the US
> > doesn't have a corner on who's "smart".
>
> Yeah, and parents all over the World are sending their kids to India
> for an education instead of the US.


The US (and California in particular) still has the BEST institutions
of higher learning in the world...and will have for the forseeable
future.

[California built a top - class university infrastructure fairly
fast. Many of the technical graduates went into R&D, and this had
positive over - spill into manufacturing...a synergy was created which
is still pretty amazing today. IIRC California alone has more Nobel
Prize winners than any other place in the world...]

One problem in India is that corruption in educational institutions is
RIFE...many of the grads look good on paper but when they hit the real
world...

As for China, heard on NPR or somewhere's that ___60%___ of newly -
graduated Chinese engineers are so poorly educated as to be absolutely
unemployable - and not just in the engineering field.


--
Best
Greg

wrote:

>In a sickening turn of previous policy the Democrats are proving to be
>the worst kind pandering money grubbers.

Yes, but why are you sharing that with several off-topic newsgroups?