Well, the door on my oven has finally done a 180 which is good for
getting in close to take a big turkey out, but only stays closed by the
latch my husband drilled into it. We walked up to Lowes last night,
and looked around, and now that I have my current oven's measurements
(inside and out), I'd like to hear some comments from those of you
who've bought an oven lately.

What did you look for? What features did you want? Which ones can't
you live without?

I'm leaning towards Whirlpool because I've had good luck with their
appliances in the past, but have never had one of their wall ovens. We
can't do gas because there is none on our street, and I hate propane.
(Also have PO'd most of the propane dealers around here....)

I eagerly await your input.

maxine in ri

maxine in ri wrote:
>
> Well, the door on my oven has finally done a 180 which is good for
> getting in close to take a big turkey out, but only stays closed by the
> latch my husband drilled into it. We walked up to Lowes last night,
> and looked around, and now that I have my current oven's measurements
> (inside and out), I'd like to hear some comments from those of you
> who've bought an oven lately.
>
> What did you look for? What features did you want? Which ones can't
> you live without?
>
> I'm leaning towards Whirlpool because I've had good luck with their
> appliances in the past, but have never had one of their wall ovens. We
> can't do gas because there is none on our street, and I hate propane.
> (Also have PO'd most of the propane dealers around here....)
>
> I eagerly await your input.
>
> maxine in ri

Assuming you're staying in the "normal" price range, I don't think the
brand matters at all. I think there are only two or three factories
actually making the dozen brand names and I don't think any are in the
US these days.

Find one that fits and has the features you want and just go for it.
Convection is nice, but certainly not essential. It may save a little
time and give you more even baking without rotating trays, but it's not
that significant. Good electronic controls would be a requirement for
me, in 2007 I don't think I'd tolerate an old style idiot knob.

I'd also get an extra rack for it. I have three racks and one is more or
less permanently at the bottom holding the pizza / baking stone.

Pete C.

On 3 Jan 2007 15:13:15 -0800, "maxine in ri" >
wrote:

>Well, the door on my oven has finally done a 180 which is good for
>getting in close to take a big turkey out, but only stays closed by the
>latch my husband drilled into it. We walked up to Lowes last night,
>and looked around, and now that I have my current oven's measurements
>(inside and out), I'd like to hear some comments from those of you
>who've bought an oven lately.
>
>What did you look for? What features did you want? Which ones can't
>you live without?
>
>I'm leaning towards Whirlpool because I've had good luck with their
>appliances in the past, but have never had one of their wall ovens. We
>can't do gas because there is none on our street, and I hate propane.
>(Also have PO'd most of the propane dealers around here....)
>
>I eagerly await your input.
>
>maxine in ri

So you're looking for wall ovens, not a complete range unit? I
purchased a range from Sears (christened "Darth") and I love it. I
have convection, which can be used as non-convection as well. Be sure
to get true convection with the 3rd element, not just a fan. With
electric it will probably be true convection. Also, watch the
interior dimensions. For some convection ovens the fan box protrudes
into the oven cavity which seriously cuts down on the size of the pans
you can use. It's my impression that wall ovens are usually smaller
to begin with, so I imagine that fan protrusion can be a problem. You
might want to bring your biggest pan to the store!

Convection is good for quick and even heating of things such as meat
and casseroles, and especially good for crisp items (eg. breaded fish
fillets) but not so good for batters (cakes, muffins) because the top
crust forms before the oven spring is finished. For cookies that
don't rise much (eg. spritz) you can put a baking sheet on every rack
and all will cook evenly. You don't have to turn pans, rotate them,
etc.

Mine also has a "cake" option, which seems kind of sissy for a guy
named "Darth," but it works for me. I don't know what "cake" does but
it is great for delicate, moist cakes.

The broiler on Darth has different temperature options (450, 500, 550,
IIRC).

Darth has a warming drawer with different temperatures for keeping
foods warm and for bread rising.

It does not have a temperature probe, but I have a separate Polder
remote thermometer anyway.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On 3 Jan 2007 15:13:15 -0800, "maxine in ri" >
> wrote:
>
>>Well, the door on my oven has finally done a 180 which is good for
>>getting in close to take a big turkey out, but only stays closed by the
>>latch my husband drilled into it. We walked up to Lowes last night,
>>and looked around, and now that I have my current oven's measurements
>>(inside and out), I'd like to hear some comments from those of you
>>who've bought an oven lately.

My 32 year old oven died in July - 4 days before I had a reception with 80
people invited.

I think I was lucky in finding a good priced replacement at a local discount
store. For $650 I bought a new Whirlpool electric stove with a convection
oven - 3 racks, oven & stove light that actually worked and computerized
commands; timers, stove etc. I'm still getting used to it, but absolutely
no complaints - even though I still miss my old stove!

elaine

Pete C. wrote:

> Assuming you're staying in the "normal" price range, I don't think the
> brand matters at all. I think there are only two or three factories
> actually making the dozen brand names and I don't think any are in the
> US these days.

Good point.

> Find one that fits and has the features you want and just go for it.
> Convection is nice, but certainly not essential. It may save a little
> time and give you more even baking without rotating trays, but it's not
> that significant. Good electronic controls would be a requirement for
> me, in 2007 I don't think I'd tolerate an old style idiot knob.

I don't like electronic controls. The countertop microwave we bought a
couple years ago had the panel croak, in warranty. Got it replaced,
and a month out of warranty, the clock stopped working. The panel
cover also wore out before a week was gone by.

I don't think there's much choice anyhow--all the ones I saw were
electronic<G>.

> I'd also get an extra rack for it. I have three racks and one is more or
> less permanently at the bottom holding the pizza / baking stone.
>
> Pete C.

They all come with 3 racks that I saw. I know the pizza stone works
well to brown crusts and such, but are there other reasons to leave it
in the oven full time?

You've given me some questions to ask and things to look at and for.
Thank you.
maxine in ri

Curly Sue wrote:

> So you're looking for wall ovens, not a complete range unit? I
> purchased a range from Sears (christened "Darth") and I love it. I
> have convection, which can be used as non-convection as well. Be sure
> to get true convection with the 3rd element, not just a fan. With
> electric it will probably be true convection. Also, watch the
> interior dimensions. For some convection ovens the fan box protrudes
> into the oven cavity which seriously cuts down on the size of the pans
> you can use. It's my impression that wall ovens are usually smaller
> to begin with, so I imagine that fan protrusion can be a problem. You
> might want to bring your biggest pan to the store!

Yes, wall oven. You think I want to lose all that storage space under
the cooktop? I'm glad you seconded my thought about bringing the
roasting pan. Those display ovens look awfully small! The salesclerk
said that the fan only takes up about 1-1/2" of depth. I will measure
what I have now, and see how it compares.

Where is the third element?

> Convection is good for quick and even heating of things such as meat
> and casseroles, and especially good for crisp items (eg. breaded fish
> fillets) but not so good for batters (cakes, muffins) because the top
> crust forms before the oven spring is finished. For cookies that
> don't rise much (eg. spritz) you can put a baking sheet on every rack
> and all will cook evenly. You don't have to turn pans, rotate them,
> etc.

That sounds very useful. I hate baking a puny little batch of 2 dozen.
All my recipes start at 6 dozen and go up from there<G>.

> Mine also has a "cake" option, which seems kind of sissy for a guy
> named "Darth," but it works for me. I don't know what "cake" does but
> it is great for delicate, moist cakes.

Isn't that the option they call non-convection? Probalby without the
fan.

> The broiler on Darth has different temperature options (450, 500, 550,
> IIRC).

I hope I can find similar. My current oven has the same, and it makes
a huge difference in the coating on the fish being either brown and
crisp, or burned to a crisp!

> Darth has a warming drawer with different temperatures for keeping
> foods warm and for bread rising.

I've been using the cabinet over the current oven for a proofing box.
Hopefully the insulation on the newer ovens isn't so great that it will
no longer work.

> It does not have a temperature probe, but I have a separate Polder
> remote thermometer anyway.

Ditto. I prefer something basic, where I can add on bits and pieces as
I need them. Mom never used the temperature probe in her microwave,
since she never cooked a roast in it.

> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Thanks, Sue. These are more good things for me to consider.

maxine in ri

elaine wrote:

> My 32 year old oven died in July - 4 days before I had a reception with 80
> people invited.

That's the sort of situation I'm trying to avoid<g>!

> I think I was lucky in finding a good priced replacement at a local discount
> store. For $650 I bought a new Whirlpool electric stove with a convection
> oven - 3 racks, oven & stove light that actually worked and computerized
> commands; timers, stove etc. I'm still getting used to it, but absolutely
> no complaints - even though I still miss my old stove!
>
> elaine

Sounds ideal. Wait a minute. You say 6 months later you're still not
used to it?? Is that a function of your learning curve, the stove's
complexity or the manual's poor instructions?

maxine in ri

maxine in ri wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Assuming you're staying in the "normal" price range, I don't think the
> > brand matters at all. I think there are only two or three factories
> > actually making the dozen brand names and I don't think any are in the
> > US these days.
>
> Good point.
>
> > Find one that fits and has the features you want and just go for it.
> > Convection is nice, but certainly not essential. It may save a little
> > time and give you more even baking without rotating trays, but it's not
> > that significant. Good electronic controls would be a requirement for
> > me, in 2007 I don't think I'd tolerate an old style idiot knob.
>
> I don't like electronic controls. The countertop microwave we bought a
> couple years ago had the panel croak, in warranty. Got it replaced,
> and a month out of warranty, the clock stopped working. The panel
> cover also wore out before a week was gone by.

I've never had any electronic controls fail. Indeed my mother still has
and uses daily the same Sanyo microwave I installed a new outlet for
many years ago. Must be pushing 20 years at this point. Electronic touch
pad controls, fluorescent display all working flawlessly.

On the more recent front there are two refrigerators with electronic
controls, two stoves with electronic controls and a couple more
microwaves with electronic controls all working fine as well. You got an
anomalous dud.

>
> I don't think there's much choice anyhow--all the ones I saw were
> electronic<G>.

Generally much better.

>
> > I'd also get an extra rack for it. I have three racks and one is more or
> > less permanently at the bottom holding the pizza / baking stone.
> >
> > Pete C.
>
> They all come with 3 racks that I saw. I know the pizza stone works
> well to brown crusts and such, but are there other reasons to leave it
> in the oven full time?

Yes, the pizza stone also adds thermal mass, helping to stabilize the
temperature, particularly when you open and close the oven door as well
as blocking direct radiant energy from the bottom bake element from
reaching your cookie sheet and burning the bottom of the cookies. On top
of both those features, the pizza stone also is the target for most oven
spills and being easy to take out and wash at the sink, minimizes oven
cleaning work.

>
> You've given me some questions to ask and things to look at and for.
> Thank you.
> maxine in ri

NP.

Pete C.

maxine in ri wrote:
>
> Curly Sue wrote:
>
> > So you're looking for wall ovens, not a complete range unit? I
> > purchased a range from Sears (christened "Darth") and I love it. I
> > have convection, which can be used as non-convection as well. Be sure
> > to get true convection with the 3rd element, not just a fan. With
> > electric it will probably be true convection. Also, watch the
> > interior dimensions. For some convection ovens the fan box protrudes
> > into the oven cavity which seriously cuts down on the size of the pans
> > you can use. It's my impression that wall ovens are usually smaller
> > to begin with, so I imagine that fan protrusion can be a problem. You
> > might want to bring your biggest pan to the store!
>
> Yes, wall oven. You think I want to lose all that storage space under
> the cooktop? I'm glad you seconded my thought about bringing the
> roasting pan. Those display ovens look awfully small! The salesclerk
> said that the fan only takes up about 1-1/2" of depth. I will measure
> what I have now, and see how it compares.

When I moved and ended up with a convection oven that 1.5" made a
difference. It's not a problem for half sheet pans and such, but it is
for a 16" round pizza stone. I had to go get a new 14" x 16" rectangular
pizza stone to fit it.

>
> Where is the third element?

In the back surrounding the convection fan. Normal bake element at the
bottom, broil element up top and convection element around the fan.

>
> > Convection is good for quick and even heating of things such as meat
> > and casseroles, and especially good for crisp items (eg. breaded fish
> > fillets) but not so good for batters (cakes, muffins) because the top
> > crust forms before the oven spring is finished. For cookies that
> > don't rise much (eg. spritz) you can put a baking sheet on every rack
> > and all will cook evenly. You don't have to turn pans, rotate them,
> > etc.
>
> That sounds very useful. I hate baking a puny little batch of 2 dozen.
> All my recipes start at 6 dozen and go up from there<G>.

Well, actually you still need to rotate all those cookie sheets at least
once even with a big commercial Hobart double convection oven.

>
> > Mine also has a "cake" option, which seems kind of sissy for a guy
> > named "Darth," but it works for me. I don't know what "cake" does but
> > it is great for delicate, moist cakes.
>
> Isn't that the option they call non-convection? Probalby without the
> fan.

Could be. Most consumer convection ovens will operate in both modes.

>
> > The broiler on Darth has different temperature options (450, 500, 550,
> > IIRC).
>
> I hope I can find similar. My current oven has the same, and it makes
> a huge difference in the coating on the fish being either brown and
> crisp, or burned to a crisp!

I've got just hi and low for broil, but that seems sufficient. Hi still
can't compete with the charcoal grill for an 800 degree steak sear
though.

>
> > Darth has a warming drawer with different temperatures for keeping
> > foods warm and for bread rising.
>
> I've been using the cabinet over the current oven for a proofing box.
> Hopefully the insulation on the newer ovens isn't so great that it will
> no longer work.

No warming drawer on my range, but it has both the main convection oven
and a small side oven that will do the job if you set it to the lowest
setting to preheat and then turn it off.

>
> > It does not have a temperature probe, but I have a separate Polder
> > remote thermometer anyway.
>
> Ditto. I prefer something basic, where I can add on bits and pieces as
> I need them. Mom never used the temperature probe in her microwave,
> since she never cooked a roast in it.

I've got analog and digital instant read probe thermometers, a regular
meat thermometer and an infrared thermometer in my kitchen. I don't need
any built in to the oven.

Pete C.

On 3 Jan 2007 19:12:08 -0800, "maxine in ri" >
wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
<snip>
>> Mine also has a "cake" option, which seems kind of sissy for a guy
>> named "Darth," but it works for me. I don't know what "cake" does but
>> it is great for delicate, moist cakes.
>
>Isn't that the option they call non-convection? Probalby without the
>fan.

It's non-convection but I also have a "bake" non-convection, so it's
different somehow. My choices a
-Convection Bake (which lowers the temp by 25 deg as well as turning
on the fan)
-Bake (non-convection)
-Meat (which is convection but doesn't lower the temperature)
-Cake (which is non-convection)
-Bread (which I haven't tried)

Oh, and self-clean... of course!

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Pete C. > wrote:
>I've never had any electronic controls fail.

I just spent $170 to replace the control panel on my
clothes dryer because the Perm Press button decided
to stay permanently pressed.

It was a membrane panel (like almost all appliance panels
are, because they're almost waterproof and dirt cheap to
make in those quantities), and that one pad just wasn't
releasing fully, so it would get a little warm during
a drying cycle then the thing would start beeping like
someone was pressing buttons, and because the "engineers"
who designed the thing didn't predict the problem, it
would react to the phantom button presses and stop drying.

The good news is, the lady at the Sears service center
didn't just charge me $170 for the repair, she sold me
a year service contract for that $170 and included this
repair under the contract. So, basically, for free, I
can get anything fixed that goes wrong in the next year,
as long as its actual cost is less than $500 minus the
$170 used for this fix. And this was likely the most
expensive part on the whole machine.

--Blair

In article .com>,
"maxine in ri" > wrote:

> Well, the door on my oven has finally done a 180 which is good for
> getting in close to take a big turkey out, but only stays closed by the
> latch my husband drilled into it. We walked up to Lowes last night,
> and looked around, and now that I have my current oven's measurements
> (inside and out), I'd like to hear some comments from those of you
> who've bought an oven lately.
>
> What did you look for? What features did you want? Which ones can't
> you live without?
>
> I'm leaning towards Whirlpool because I've had good luck with their
> appliances in the past, but have never had one of their wall ovens. We
> can't do gas because there is none on our street, and I hate propane.
> (Also have PO'd most of the propane dealers around here....)
>
> I eagerly await your input.

Check Consumer Reports either online or at a local public library.

"Blair P. Houghton" wrote:
>
> Pete C. > wrote:
> >I've never had any electronic controls fail.
>
> I just spent $170 to replace the control panel on my
> clothes dryer because the Perm Press button decided
> to stay permanently pressed.
>
> It was a membrane panel (like almost all appliance panels
> are, because they're almost waterproof and dirt cheap to
> make in those quantities), and that one pad just wasn't
> releasing fully, so it would get a little warm during
> a drying cycle then the thing would start beeping like
> someone was pressing buttons, and because the "engineers"
> who designed the thing didn't predict the problem, it
> would react to the phantom button presses and stop drying.
>
> The good news is, the lady at the Sears service center
> didn't just charge me $170 for the repair, she sold me
> a year service contract for that $170 and included this
> repair under the contract. So, basically, for free, I
> can get anything fixed that goes wrong in the next year,
> as long as its actual cost is less than $500 minus the
> $170 used for this fix. And this was likely the most
> expensive part on the whole machine.
>
> --Blair

I didn't say electronic controls never fail, just that I haven't had any
fail. They are generally pretty reliable. Membrane switches are pretty
reliable as well (evidenced by 20 yr old microwave with one still
perfect), but they are a bit susceptible to damage from sharp / pointed
items. A solid jab with a thumbnail can put a dent in the material and
affect it's operation. As we've all seen at fast food places, the
membrane keypad on the register often is worn right through the printed
overlay layer and still working properly.

Pete C.

"maxine in ri" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> elaine wrote:
>
>> My 32 year old oven died in July - 4 days before I had a reception with
>> 80
>> people invited.
>
> That's the sort of situation I'm trying to avoid<g>!
>
>> I think I was lucky in finding a good priced replacement at a local
>> discount
>> store. For $650 I bought a new Whirlpool electric stove with a
>> convection
>> oven - 3 racks, oven & stove light that actually worked and computerized
>> commands; timers, stove etc. I'm still getting used to it, but
>> absolutely
>> no complaints - even though I still miss my old stove!
>>
>> elaine
>
> Sounds ideal. Wait a minute. You say 6 months later you're still not
> used to it?? Is that a function of your learning curve, the stove's
> complexity or the manual's poor instructions?
>
> maxine in ri

I guess what I'm saying is that I really loved my old one and I think it
does take some time to get used to a new stove - oven temps differ in
different stoves IMO. But I also don't cook as often (family aren't around
every day!) Plus, I have to put my reading glasses on to set the timer,
temperature, make sure I have the correct burner, etc.

No reflection of my learning curve! I don't think so anyway. And the stove
was without a instruction manual - no big deal, except I couldn't find one
on line. That's ok, I muddle through.

elaine

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:00:36 -0500, "elaine" >
wrote:

>"maxine in ri" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> elaine wrote:
>>
>>> My 32 year old oven died in July - 4 days before I had a reception with
>>> 80
>>> people invited.
>>
>> That's the sort of situation I'm trying to avoid<g>!
>>
>>> I think I was lucky in finding a good priced replacement at a local
>>> discount
>>> store. For $650 I bought a new Whirlpool electric stove with a
>>> convection
>>> oven - 3 racks, oven & stove light that actually worked and computerized
>>> commands; timers, stove etc. I'm still getting used to it, but
>>> absolutely
>>> no complaints - even though I still miss my old stove!
>>>
>>> elaine
>>
>> Sounds ideal. Wait a minute. You say 6 months later you're still not
>> used to it?? Is that a function of your learning curve, the stove's
>> complexity or the manual's poor instructions?
>>
>> maxine in ri
>
>I guess what I'm saying is that I really loved my old one and I think it
>does take some time to get used to a new stove - oven temps differ in
>different stoves IMO. But I also don't cook as often (family aren't around
>every day!) Plus, I have to put my reading glasses on to set the timer,
>temperature, make sure I have the correct burner, etc.
>
>No reflection of my learning curve! I don't think so anyway. And the stove
>was without a instruction manual - no big deal, except I couldn't find one
>on line. That's ok, I muddle through.

A new stove w/o a manual? Doesn't seem right.

In any case, try calling the company rather than looking on line.
I've done that successfully when I moved into a house with an old
stove. Very often the companies have manuals even for older
appliances, or a close enough match.

Sometimes they charge, sometimes not.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:00:36 -0500, "elaine" >

snip

>>No reflection of my learning curve! I don't think so anyway. And the
>>stove
>>was without a instruction manual - no big deal, except I couldn't find one
>>on line. That's ok, I muddle through.
>
> A new stove w/o a manual? Doesn't seem right.
>
> In any case, try calling the company rather than looking on line.
> I've done that successfully when I moved into a house with an old
> stove. Very often the companies have manuals even for older
> appliances, or a close enough match.

Thanks, good idea.

It really wasn't a big deal not having the manual. I got the stove for an
excellent price and have seen it since for almost double..........

elaine

elaine wrote:

> No reflection of my learning curve! I don't think so anyway. And the stove
> was without a instruction manual - no big deal, except I couldn't find one
> on line. That's ok, I muddle through.

None intended! You mean your new stove came without a manual? Even if
it came from a salvage place, you should be able to get the company to
send you a manual. I've never had a manual either, but then I've
never been able to use the timers or self-clean cycle on my ovens
either!

maxine, who likes shopping at salvage places--you never know what
you'll find, like a treasure hunt!

maxine in ri wrote on 03 Jan 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> You've given me some questions to ask and things to look at and for.
> Thank you.
> maxine in ri
>

After 4 or so years of use, my convection oven has the same single
drawback...It is too small in size inside as compared to a conventional
oven...3 racks or not still don't allow a large roaster and a casserole
dish dish or 2 to fit inside the oven at the same time...Family feasts such
as xmas, new year's day, Easter, etc take on a whole new meaning when you
have not enough oven space. Seems the additional insulation and fan housing
decrease the interior size of the oven a fair bit.


The convection roasts meats faster, and way tastier. The same can be said
for baked goods, but it requires learning a minor new way of cooking, due
to the speed increase the fan makes.

I am quite happy with it for day by day use...However for Holiday Meals I
am not. I had to buy a large combo microwave/convection oven (replaced my
toaster oven) to take up the holiday slack and double as my toaster oven
and microwave. So I live with it as there's rarely more than 4 or 5 feasts
required to be made by me each year.