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"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> W. Baker > wrote:
> : Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>
> Something went wrong here with my post and all my material seems to not
> have come throughat all. It was a rather complicated series of comments ,
> mostly to Julie about , not cites, but where I learned much of hte
> material about homnivores, Mad COw disease and feeding animals downed
> animals, etc from reading Newspapers and listening to news on teh TV and
> Radio(Mostly NPR) as well as material I remember learning some 60 years
> ago in HS biology. I also learned about the harm that corn, actually a
> perfectly good food for non-diabetics if eaten within reason, is a
> terrible food that cannot be digested by cows. It tears up their guts.
> this information I read , in both Omnivore's dilemma by Polard and Michael
> S---? book on the cattle industry, but i forget the name(senior moment-it
> will come to me in the middle of the night, causing me to lose sleep:-)
>
> I interleafed it, but none of it seems to have gotten through. No idea
> why.


Hmmm... Dunno. I believe that I read those same books too. Maybe two
years ago? But I read them with a super big grain of salt. Some of what I
read in there made sense but a lot did not.


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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
>>> >observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
>>> >does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
>>> >are none.

>
>> OMG! You would never be my friend. Never! You just can't see yourself
>> for
>> the bigot that you are.
>>

>
> I never said that the above assumptions about men and women were
> a good thing. And quit jumping to conclusions about others.
> I am no more a bigot than you are a toad. If you disagree
> with others or don't understand them, it does not mean they
> are wrong or that they are lying or that. It just makes
> you disagreeable.


I don't personally care you you see me as disagreeable or not. But you made
those comments as if they were fact. And if in fact they are your opinion
then it would in my mind make you a bigot.

It's not that I don't understand you. I only know you by what you say. And
you said some pretty awful things about men and women.

My parents raised me to see that it didn't matter which gender I was. We're
all the same. Or we should be. Yes, I know that women are not usually paid
as well as men are. And that ticks me off. But there also isn't much I can
do about that. But I have never seen anyone treat me differently than a
woman that they might consider to be prettier than me. Whatever that might
be. Because really, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
>>> >college.

>
>> Oh. Putting me down again then? I dropped out of college after the
>> first
>> Semester or Trimester or whatever it was in those days. I did get an A+
>> in
>> both my regular and advances Algebra in Hish School

>
> Actually I remember you telling me you got an A+ in college Biology.
> There was no insult intended. I certainly did not mean one.


Oh bull. I never would have said that. I dropped out of college! I hated
school.


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"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> Todd > wrote:
> : On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> : > "Todd" > wrote in message
>
> : >> Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
> : >> can't. You missed the point.
>
> Actually they have 4!
>
> : >
> : > You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And
> what does
> : > that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!
>
> : "cellulose" is called "bran" in humans. They derive no nutritious
> : from. Grass is cellulose.
>
> Well it keeps things moving along and for some folks that is a desirable
> effect while for others it can be a disaster!
>
>
> : >
>
> : > Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
> : > butcher it?
>
> : Oh that can't be good. I have heard of American Indians that
> : will leave a dead diseased animal to rot.
>
> There were tribes in New Guinea that ate the brains of their ancestors
> when they died and it led to unexplained sicknesses until it was found
> that some diseases were being past on(like Mad COw)
>
> there have been cannibals too.
> : Glycemic Index for Corn Glycemic index studies of
> : corn report averages of anywhere from 37 to 62.
> : An average GI of 54 is commonly used.
>
> : Table sugar:
>
> :
> http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide...weeteners.html
>
> : Sucrose Sugar 65
>
> Corn in reasonable quantities is fine for non-diabeticsas part of a diet.
> some cultures use it as their main grain because that is what grew there.
> Look at Central America, home of the tortilla, originally only corn,now
> you can get corn anor wheat one, but that is only since Europeans
> introduces wheat to the Western Hemisphere.
>
> : >>>> We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
> : >>>> carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
> : >>>> then we are just like bears.
> : >>>
> : >>> No we're not.
> How is our omnivoreness different from the bears? We both eat both
> vegetable and flesh foods. The native people and the bears in Julie's
> part of the country both look for the big salmon runs for sutenance
> through the winter, the bears by pigging out to get fat for hibernation
> and the naitive people to smoke the fish on alderwood to preserve it.


We're different because we don't *have* to eat meat to survive. Frankly I
don't know if bears need it to survive either. I have never studied bears.
But there are plenty of humans who never eat meat.
>
> : >> Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
> : >> are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
> : >> (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.
>
>
> This is not all that I wrote, but I hope this, at least comes through.


Okay...


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On 03/18/2013 07:44 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
>>>>> observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
>>>>> does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
>>>>> are none.

>>
>>> OMG! You would never be my friend. Never! You just can't see yourself
>>> for
>>> the bigot that you are.
>>>

>>
>> I never said that the above assumptions about men and women were
>> a good thing. And quit jumping to conclusions about others.
>> I am no more a bigot than you are a toad. If you disagree
>> with others or don't understand them, it does not mean they
>> are wrong or that they are lying or that. It just makes
>> you disagreeable.

>
> I don't personally care you you see me as disagreeable or not. But you made
> those comments as if they were fact. And if in fact they are your opinion
> then it would in my mind make you a bigot.
>
> It's not that I don't understand you. I only know you by what you say. And
> you said some pretty awful things about men and women.
>
> My parents raised me to see that it didn't matter which gender I was. We're
> all the same. Or we should be. Yes, I know that women are not usually paid
> as well as men are. And that ticks me off. But there also isn't much I can
> do about that. But I have never seen anyone treat me differently than a
> woman that they might consider to be prettier than me. Whatever that might
> be. Because really, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
>
>


I never said any of those things were good things. You
are putting words into my mouth. Makes you disagreeable.

I go by judging folks by the strength of the character,
not by what they look like. (I made that pretty clear too.)




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On 03/18/2013 07:45 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
>>>>> college.

>>
>>> Oh. Putting me down again then? I dropped out of college after the
>>> first
>>> Semester or Trimester or whatever it was in those days. I did get an A+
>>> in
>>> both my regular and advances Algebra in Hish School

>>
>> Actually I remember you telling me you got an A+ in college Biology.
>> There was no insult intended. I certainly did not mean one.

>
> Oh bull. I never would have said that. I dropped out of college! I hated
> school.


You are correct, you did not mention college:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...e1aa2 7d77b8a

I am not an engineer and got a D in chemistry. But I got an
A+ in biology. "Sugar" is a very specific type of carb.
The term "carb" can encompass a wide variety of foods.
There are carbs in green beans, broccoli, even a tiny amount
in an egg.

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Todd wrote:

> I never said any of those things were good things. You
> are putting words into my mouth. Makes you disagreeable.


And I never said that you did. But you stated them as though they were
facts.
>
> I go by judging folks by the strength of the character,
> not by what they look like. (I made that pretty clear too.)


I haven't the slightest clue what that means. But I'll bet if I did, I
wouldn't like it. You seem to reel off these words as if they all know what
they mean. I did try to look that up. Got conflicting answers so I have no
clue what you mean by that.



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On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:20:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Todd" > wrote in message
...
>> On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
>>> dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products.
>>> Not
>>> even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.

>>
>>
>> Hi Julie,
>>
>> I am not lying. We are using different definitions. Since
>> I did not know what your personal one was, I was using what I
>> thought was the common definition.

>
>That's not *my* personal definition. As I said before, there are three
>distinct types of vegetarians and one type of vegan. Granted of the vegans,
>some eat raw foods and some do not. Even some vegetarians only eat raw
>foods. But that's a different matter.
>>
>> This is the definition I am using. Egg and dairy eaters
>> would fall under the definition of "Semi-vegetarians".
>> Apparently the "Vegetarian Society" (see below) doesn't
>> think they are vegetarians at all.

>
>Oh nonsense! Just nonsense! Egg and dairy eaters (who abstain from eating
>flesh) are VEGERTARIANS!


What is a "vegertarian"? Is this yet another level of vegetarian? I've
never heard the term before. Where can I read more about these
vegertarians?

>A semi-vegetarian would be a person who eats a vegetarian diet most of the
>time but occasionally eats flesh, be it chicken, beef, pork, lamb, fish,
>whatever...
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
>>
>> -T
>>
>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
>>
>>
>> Vegetarianism:
>>
>> Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from the
>> consumption of meat – red meat, poultry, seafood and
>> the flesh of any other animal; it may also include
>> abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such
>> as animal-derived rennet and gelatin.
>>

>Yes! We both put up the same link. But apparently you took the information
>that they put and changed it into something else. A vegetarain abstains
>from the consumption of meat! And by-products of animal slaughter. But you
>failed to quote the egg and dairy part. In fact you failed to actually
>quote what you did put. Let me quote it for ya.
>
>" There are varieties of the diet as well: an ovo-vegetarian diet includes
>eggs but not dairy products, a lacto-vegetarian diet includes dairy products
>but not eggs, and an ovo-taco vegetarian diet includes both eggs and dairy
>products."
>
>Then it does on to say:
>
>" A vegan , or strict vegetarian, diet excludes all animal products,
>including eggs, dairy, beeswax and honey. Vegans also avoid animal products
>such as leather for clothing and goose-fat for shoe polish."
>> ...
>>
>> Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian
>> foods, but may include fish or poultry, or sometimes
>> other meats, on an infrequent basis. Those with diets
>> containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as
>> mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism.
>> A pescetarian diet has been described as "fish but
>> no other meat". *The common use association between
>> such diets and vegetarianism has led vegetarian groups
>> such as the Vegetarian Society to state that diets
>> containing these ingredients are not vegetarian, due
>> to fish and birds being animals.*
>>

>Exactly! Those diets are *not* vegetarian. Just as I said.
>
>A pescatarian eats fish and shellfish but no other animal flesh:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescetarianism
>
>A pollotarian eats only chicken and no other animal flesh:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollotarianism
>

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On 03/18/2013 08:07 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> Todd wrote:


>> I go by judging folks by the strength of the character,
>> not by what they look like. (I made that pretty clear too.)

>
> I haven't the slightest clue what that means. But I'll bet if I did, I
> wouldn't like it. You seem to reel off these words as if they all know what
> they mean. I did try to look that up. Got conflicting answers so I have no
> clue what you mean by that.


It means just what it says. I can't help you any further than
that. Sorry.

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Todd wrote:
> On 03/18/2013 08:07 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Todd wrote:

>
>>> I go by judging folks by the strength of the character,
>>> not by what they look like. (I made that pretty clear too.)

>>
>> I haven't the slightest clue what that means. But I'll bet if I
>> did, I wouldn't like it. You seem to reel off these words as if
>> they all know what they mean. I did try to look that up. Got
>> conflicting answers so I have no clue what you mean by that.

>
> It means just what it says. I can't help you any further than
> that. Sorry.


That really means nothing to me. Is it a religous thing? If you say that,
you should be able to say what it means. Because in and of otself it is
meaningless.

I try not to judge people but of corse I do. We all do. But for me it's
mainly a matter of that I usually either like or dislike them form the
start. When I dislike them it's often a matter of personality differences.
Sometimes I just get a bad feeling. Then later I'll find out that they are
a criminal or are abusive or something. My first impression of a person is
rarely wrong. Sometimes though there is no clear cut impression when I
first meet them and once I learn more about them, I'll form an impression.

There is one person I am in contact with on a regular basis that struck me
wrong from the start. Although nice, she came across as very abrupt and
Angela really took exception to something that she said to me. And I too
thought that what she said was quite rude. But after knowing her for many
years now, I know that is just the way that she comes across. Not just to
me but to many people. I have witnessed others getting angry with her
because of the way she comes across. We actually get along quite well now.
But for sure there is a personality difference.




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Todd wrote:
> On 03/18/2013 07:45 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
>>>>>> college.
>>>
>>>> Oh. Putting me down again then? I dropped out of college after
>>>> the first
>>>> Semester or Trimester or whatever it was in those days. I did get
>>>> an A+ in
>>>> both my regular and advances Algebra in Hish School
>>>
>>> Actually I remember you telling me you got an A+ in college Biology.
>>> There was no insult intended. I certainly did not mean one.

>>
>> Oh bull. I never would have said that. I dropped out of college! I
>> hated school.

>
> You are correct, you did not mention college:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...e1aa2 7d77b8a
>
> I am not an engineer and got a D in chemistry. But I got an
> A+ in biology. "Sugar" is a very specific type of carb.
> The term "carb" can encompass a wide variety of foods.
> There are carbs in green beans, broccoli, even a tiny amount
> in an egg.


I got a D in Chemistry too. In High School. Then when my brother took the
same course, I saw his book and said, "That's not what we did!" He replied,
"I know. They found out that they'd bought you guys the wrong book. It was
a college level book!"

I had thought that chemistry would be experiments. And it was when my
brother took it. When I took it, it was math. I only remember doing one
thing that came perhaps somewhat close to an experiment. It involved
weighing some things. I can't remember what though. But we used little
metal beads to weigh things with. Mostly the class was about memorizing the
chemical elements and something to do with moles. Never did figure out what
a mole was. My one friend got an A in the class. She was one of my lab
partners. She only got the A because she had a photographic memory and she
could parrot back what she read and or/ what was said. She did well in this
class because it was finite. She did not do well in other classes where you
had to read something and then interperet it in your own way.

I wasn't the only one who got a D. Most of the class did. That should have
tipped them off!


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Doris Night wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:20:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians
>>>> can eat dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any
>>>> animal products. Not
>>>> even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Julie,
>>>
>>> I am not lying. We are using different definitions. Since
>>> I did not know what your personal one was, I was using what I
>>> thought was the common definition.

>>
>> That's not *my* personal definition. As I said before, there are
>> three distinct types of vegetarians and one type of vegan. Granted
>> of the vegans, some eat raw foods and some do not. Even some
>> vegetarians only eat raw foods. But that's a different matter.
>>>
>>> This is the definition I am using. Egg and dairy eaters
>>> would fall under the definition of "Semi-vegetarians".
>>> Apparently the "Vegetarian Society" (see below) doesn't
>>> think they are vegetarians at all.

>>
>> Oh nonsense! Just nonsense! Egg and dairy eaters (who abstain from
>> eating flesh) are VEGERTARIANS!


That was a typo. And I made another one further down. Typed "does" instead
of "goes".


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W. Baker wrote:


> There were tribes in New Guinea that ate the brains of their ancestors
> when they died and it led to unexplained sicknesses until it was found
> that some diseases were being past on(like Mad COw)


Kuru. A prion disease just like Mad Cow.

(T-shirt from Montana: "At least our cows are sane." :-)

> there have been cannibals too.


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On 03/19/2013 02:09 AM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
> W. Baker wrote:
>
>
>> There were tribes in New Guinea that ate the brains of their ancestors
>> when they died and it led to unexplained sicknesses until it was found
>> that some diseases were being past on(like Mad COw)

>
> Kuru. A prion disease just like Mad Cow.
>
> (T-shirt from Montana: "At least our cows are sane." :-)
>
>> there have been cannibals too.

>


It is pretty easy to tell if a cow has Mad Cow disease. Here
is a short video on how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gi5IEjeH6E

:-)

-T

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In article >,
Bjørn Steensrud > wrote:

> Billy wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Bj?rn Steensrud > wrote:
> >
> >> Billy wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article >, Todd >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 03/11/2013 03:15 PM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
> >> >> > In article >, Todd >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast? (I have developed
> >> >> >> a distaste for ["my"] eggs. Rats!)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Eggs: fried, scrambled, omelets. Sometimes with bacon (although I
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > to share that with the cats. One of my favorite omelets is with
> >> >> > shredded "mexican" cheese and salsa. YUM!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Accompanied by a big mug of hot tea with a spoon of sugar and a glug
> >> >> > of milk in the winter and iced tea with sugar and lemon in the
> >> >> > summer.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > PP
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi PP,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you!
> >> >>
> >> >> I am going to have to try my hand at omelets again.
> >> >>
> >> >> -T
> >> >
> >> > Get a heavy, non-stick, omelet pan.
> >> >
> >>
> >> and use butter, not oil. If I use butter there is no stick problem on the
> >> cast-iron skillet I use. And lifting the skillet is strength exercise ...
> >> I heard the eggs should be left out of the fridge overnight, for the
> >> fluffiest omelette.

> >
> > Lastly, try to find "real" free range (pastured) eggs. The fresher the
> > eggs, and the butter are the better, said Mme. Annette Poulard.
> >

>
> I always do. They are marked "ecological" here, the "free range" marking
> just means that the hens are shut in a large barn instead of individual
> cages. "Eco" means among other factors that weather permitting they can go
> outside. Price is just a bit higher but quite affordable.


In real eggs, the yoke looks like an apricot in color.

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party



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In article >, Todd >
wrote:

> On 03/17/2013 04:01 PM, Billy wrote:
> > In article >, Todd >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 03/16/2013 03:26 PM, Billy wrote:
> >> > The precipitating incident is, essentially, living in this female-
> >> > hating culture. What begins as simple dieting ends in an addictive
> >> > cycle of either binging and purging or plain starvation.
> >>
> >> <snip for brevity>
> >>
> >> Wonderful exposition. You spent a lot of time writing
> >> all that up. And, it explains a lot too. Thank you!
> >>
> >> Fat bigotry affects both females and males. Employment,
> >> medical, personal relationships, etc.. But, females do
> >> take the brunt of it.
> >>
> >> And that kind of non-sense only happened after the television.
> >> We have calendars out here in Nevada filled with pictures
> >> of the pioneer days. All, and I mean ALL, of the females
> >> were fat babes. No one wanted a skinny one as they would
> >> not last the winter. (Fat babes are also prettier, sweeter,
> >> and more feminine. "And" they last through the winter.
> >> Who wants a wife that looks like a 14 year old boy.)
> >>
> >> Are you a girl or a guy? ("Billy" could be either.)
> >>
> >> -T

> >
> > My only point is that there is a certain set of concerns when you become
> > a vegetarian,including B12, tryptophan, or zinc.

>
> Don't forget Acetyl L-Carnitine and Carnosine. I think it is the height
> of arrogance to think our science can tell us everything to supplement
> with when you are doing something unnatural. Eventually we will be
> able to, but, I would posit, not before we develop long term frame
> space travel. (I pity the first victims. The space station may be
> solving some of the riddle.)


???? Dietary Sources:
Red meat (particularly lamb) and dairy products are the main food
sources of carnitine. It can also be found in fish, poultry, tempeh,
wheat, asparagus, avocados, and peanut butter.

What was your point?

>
> >
> > Then there is the question of what drives a person to vegetarianism,
> > health, esthetics, ethics? Whereas a bald, pot-bellied, man may look in
> > a mirror and say, "not too bad",

>
> Okay, you got me there, although I have never said "not too bad". It
> is more like "OH DUUUUUUUUDE!" :-)
>
> > women who are held to more rigorous
> > level of perfection,

>
> No disagreement arguement there. It always rankles when I
> see studies were they have a skinny girl apply for a job and
> then put the exact same woman in a fat suite and apply for
> the same job.
>
> I worked at an aerospace company about 30 years ago where
> all the raises and promotions went first to the pretty girls,
> second to all the guys, and last to the ugly girls. It
> was really irritating as I and other worked our asses off and
> got no where. If a pretty girl broke her finger nail, everyone
> swooped to her rescue (not me); if an ugly girl lay bleeding
> on the floor, everyone (not me) would step over her. And,
> fat was the kiss of death.


I've never worked with people that far removed from the human race.
A body is like a bottle that holds a wine, our personality. The bottle
may attract, but it is the wine that people come back for.

A week or two in St. Lucia, outside of the resorts, would also be good
for your perception.

>
>
> >> Are you a girl or a guy? ("Billy" could be either.)

>
> You are killing me here!
>
> -T


Sorry, I'm a 70 year old, hemorrhoidal, over weight, male. Happy now?

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

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On 03/19/2013 05:49 PM, Billy wrote:
> In article >, Todd >
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/17/2013 04:01 PM, Billy wrote:


>> Don't forget Acetyl L-Carnitine and Carnosine. I think it is the height
>> of arrogance to think our science can tell us everything to supplement
>> with when you are doing something unnatural. Eventually we will be
>> able to, but, I would posit, not before we develop long term frame
>> space travel. (I pity the first victims. The space station may be
>> solving some of the riddle.)

>
> ???? Dietary Sources:
> Red meat (particularly lamb) and dairy products are the main food
> sources of carnitine. It can also be found in fish, poultry, tempeh,
> wheat, asparagus, avocados, and peanut butter.
>
> What was your point?


That was my point. Meat is the main source of the two. If you
don't eat meat, you need to use technology to replace them.
There are only trace amounts in vegetables. Or you can eat
grains in a third world country with poor sanitation and get
them from the insect material you ingest.

I really think it is the height of arrogance to think that
our (current) science will be able to figure out everything
we need to supplement if we cut out all animal nutrition.

When we get to Mars, we should learn a lot. You can't do outside
without a special suite. The dirt is toxic (sulphuric acid):
Earthlings will have to bring dirt with them. Everything will have
to be grown in a green house. They will be pure vegetarians,
like it or not. They will probably get very sick until we
figure it out. And no bugs to supplement for animal nutrition
either.

We will probably figure a lot of things out in a hurry. In
the mean time I will enjoy my steak! (Who would want to go
to Mars: can't touch the soil; can't breath the air;
colder than hell all the time; and no trout.)


>> I worked at an aerospace company about 30 years ago where
>> all the raises and promotions went first to the pretty girls,
>> second to all the guys, and last to the ugly girls. It
>> was really irritating as I and other worked our asses off and
>> got no where. If a pretty girl broke her finger nail, everyone
>> swooped to her rescue (not me); if an ugly girl lay bleeding
>> on the floor, everyone (not me) would step over her. And,
>> fat was the kiss of death.

>
> I've never worked with people that far removed from the human race.
> A body is like a bottle that holds a wine, our personality. The bottle
> may attract, but it is the wine that people come back for.


100% agree and very well said.

And the prettiest girl, who was actually nice and got all the raises,
did not even want to be an engineer. She wanted to be a bar
tender! Her technical skill were average at best; her
interpersonal skill were off the scale. I hated the place.
But I had to put food on the table.

In my current consulting position, I have seen only a tiny bit
of this since. I go to a lot of companies. My favorite
companies to visit as ones with older ladies: finished (all
grown up), if you know what I mean. No games. You treat them
respectful and they get very loyal, which means return
customers. Although, if I look a little sick, they are on the
phone with my wife ratting me out.

>> >> Are you a girl or a guy? ("Billy" could be either.)

>>
>> You are killing me here!

>
> Sorry, I'm a 70 year old, hemorrhoidal, over weight, male. Happy now?


Yes.

56 year old curmudgeon in training here. Haven't got the cane shaking
thing down quiet yet ("Kids these days!"). Need to learn how to scowl
at folks with a walker too. If I fail at being a curmudgeon, I could
also switch over to "Old Fart". At this rate it will be Toothless Old
Fart! :-)

I asked about your gender as my wife in the most intelligent
person I have ever know (165+ IQ) and she is also the best writer
I have ever know. I recognized a few of her techniques in your
writing. Thought you sounded really smart like my wife. The
wine thing above sounds like some of her handiwork. (Did
I put my foot too far into my mouth? Didn't mean to call you a
"dudette", just a good word smith.)

-T


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On 03/19/2013 05:17 PM, Billy wrote:
>> >I always do. They are marked "ecological" here, the "free range" marking
>> >just means that the hens are shut in a large barn instead of individual
>> >cages. "Eco" means among other factors that weather permitting they can go
>> >outside. Price is just a bit higher but quite affordable.


> In real eggs, the yoke looks like an apricot in color.


The lady I buy mine from look exactly like you describe.
All organic and very fresh. All different sizes and shapes.

And, if you don't wash the pan right away, the pan
does not smell the house all up.

The shells are all different colors too. Love to crack
jokes about the green ones going best with ham. (They
do, don't they?)

Never did figure out why folks cared what color the shells
were.

-T
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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 03/19/2013 05:49 PM, Billy wrote:
>> In article >, Todd >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/17/2013 04:01 PM, Billy wrote:

>
>>> Don't forget Acetyl L-Carnitine and Carnosine. I think it is the height
>>> of arrogance to think our science can tell us everything to supplement
>>> with when you are doing something unnatural. Eventually we will be
>>> able to, but, I would posit, not before we develop long term frame
>>> space travel. (I pity the first victims. The space station may be
>>> solving some of the riddle.)

>>
>> ???? Dietary Sources:
>> Red meat (particularly lamb) and dairy products are the main food
>> sources of carnitine. It can also be found in fish, poultry, tempeh,
>> wheat, asparagus, avocados, and peanut butter.
>>
>> What was your point?

>
> That was my point. Meat is the main source of the two. If you
> don't eat meat, you need to use technology to replace them.
> There are only trace amounts in vegetables. Or you can eat
> grains in a third world country with poor sanitation and get
> them from the insect material you ingest.
>

Nonsense! You mentioned L Carnitine. I looked it up. It's in dairy and
vegetables. So you were wrong on that. And why are you so big on this
insect thing? You do know that grains can be washed. Right/

> I really think it is the height of arrogance to think that
> our (current) science will be able to figure out everything
> we need to supplement if we cut out all animal nutrition.


Nonsense.
>
> When we get to Mars, we should learn a lot. You can't do outside
> without a special suite. The dirt is toxic (sulphuric acid):
> Earthlings will have to bring dirt with them. Everything will have
> to be grown in a green house. They will be pure vegetarians,
> like it or not. They will probably get very sick until we
> figure it out. And no bugs to supplement for animal nutrition
> either.


Please learn what the word "suite" means if you're going to keep using it.
Continuing to use it incorrectly doesn't make you look too bright. And I
have never, ever heard of this bug thing before. You are aware of Kosher
Jewish dietary laws... Right? And many Kosher Jewish people are
vegetarians. They're still with us.
>
> We will probably figure a lot of things out in a hurry. In
> the mean time I will enjoy my steak! (Who would want to go
> to Mars: can't touch the soil; can't breath the air;
> colder than hell all the time; and no trout.)


Go ahead. Enjoy your steak. I don't care. But I do wish you would quit
pushing the meat off on those of us that don't like meat.
>
>
>>> I worked at an aerospace company about 30 years ago where
>>> all the raises and promotions went first to the pretty girls,
>>> second to all the guys, and last to the ugly girls. It
>>> was really irritating as I and other worked our asses off and
>>> got no where. If a pretty girl broke her finger nail, everyone
>>> swooped to her rescue (not me); if an ugly girl lay bleeding
>>> on the floor, everyone (not me) would step over her. And,
>>> fat was the kiss of death.

>>
>> I've never worked with people that far removed from the human race.
>> A body is like a bottle that holds a wine, our personality. The bottle
>> may attract, but it is the wine that people come back for.

>
> 100% agree and very well said.
>
> And the prettiest girl, who was actually nice and got all the raises,
> did not even want to be an engineer. She wanted to be a bar
> tender! Her technical skill were average at best; her
> interpersonal skill were off the scale. I hated the place.
> But I had to put food on the table.
>
> In my current consulting position, I have seen only a tiny bit
> of this since. I go to a lot of companies. My favorite
> companies to visit as ones with older ladies: finished (all
> grown up), if you know what I mean. No games. You treat them
> respectful and they get very loyal, which means return
> customers. Although, if I look a little sick, they are on the
> phone with my wife ratting me out.


Oh good grief!
>
>>> >> Are you a girl or a guy? ("Billy" could be either.)
>>>
>>> You are killing me here!

>>
>> Sorry, I'm a 70 year old, hemorrhoidal, over weight, male. Happy now?

>
> Yes.
>
> 56 year old curmudgeon in training here. Haven't got the cane shaking
> thing down quiet yet ("Kids these days!"). Need to learn how to scowl
> at folks with a walker too. If I fail at being a curmudgeon, I could
> also switch over to "Old Fart". At this rate it will be Toothless Old
> Fart! :-)
>
> I asked about your gender as my wife in the most intelligent
> person I have ever know (165+ IQ) and she is also the best writer
> I have ever know. I recognized a few of her techniques in your
> writing. Thought you sounded really smart like my wife. The
> wine thing above sounds like some of her handiwork. (Did
> I put my foot too far into my mouth? Didn't mean to call you a
> "dudette", just a good word smith.)


Why all this constant bragging about your wife?
>
> -T
>
>



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In article >, Todd >
wrote:

> On 03/19/2013 05:49 PM, Billy wrote:
> > In article >, Todd >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 03/17/2013 04:01 PM, Billy wrote:

>
> >> Don't forget Acetyl L-Carnitine and Carnosine. I think it is the height
> >> of arrogance to think our science can tell us everything to supplement
> >> with when you are doing something unnatural. Eventually we will be
> >> able to, but, I would posit, not before we develop long term frame
> >> space travel. (I pity the first victims. The space station may be
> >> solving some of the riddle.)

> >
> > ???? Dietary Sources:
> > Red meat (particularly lamb) and dairy products are the main food
> > sources of carnitine. It can also be found in fish, poultry, tempeh,
> > wheat, asparagus, avocados, and peanut butter.
> >
> > What was your point?

>
> That was my point. Meat is the main source of the two. If you
> don't eat meat, you need to use technology to replace them.
> There are only trace amounts in vegetables. Or you can eat
> grains in a third world country with poor sanitation and get
> them from the insect material you ingest.
>
> I really think it is the height of arrogance to think that
> our (current) science will be able to figure out everything
> we need to supplement if we cut out all animal nutrition.
>
> When we get to Mars, we should learn a lot. You can't do outside
> without a special suite. The dirt is toxic (sulphuric acid):
> Earthlings will have to bring dirt with them. Everything will have
> to be grown in a green house. They will be pure vegetarians,
> like it or not. They will probably get very sick until we
> figure it out. And no bugs to supplement for animal nutrition
> either.
>
> We will probably figure a lot of things out in a hurry. In
> the mean time I will enjoy my steak! (Who would want to go
> to Mars: can't touch the soil; can't breath the air;
> colder than hell all the time; and no trout.)
>
>
> >> I worked at an aerospace company about 30 years ago where
> >> all the raises and promotions went first to the pretty girls,
> >> second to all the guys, and last to the ugly girls. It
> >> was really irritating as I and other worked our asses off and
> >> got no where. If a pretty girl broke her finger nail, everyone
> >> swooped to her rescue (not me); if an ugly girl lay bleeding
> >> on the floor, everyone (not me) would step over her. And,
> >> fat was the kiss of death.

> >
> > I've never worked with people that far removed from the human race.
> > A body is like a bottle that holds a wine, our personality. The bottle
> > may attract, but it is the wine that people come back for.

>
> 100% agree and very well said.
>
> And the prettiest girl, who was actually nice and got all the raises,
> did not even want to be an engineer. She wanted to be a bar
> tender! Her technical skill were average at best; her
> interpersonal skill were off the scale. I hated the place.
> But I had to put food on the table.
>
> In my current consulting position, I have seen only a tiny bit
> of this since. I go to a lot of companies. My favorite
> companies to visit as ones with older ladies: finished (all
> grown up), if you know what I mean. No games. You treat them
> respectful and they get very loyal, which means return
> customers. Although, if I look a little sick, they are on the
> phone with my wife ratting me out.
>
> >> >> Are you a girl or a guy? ("Billy" could be either.)
> >>
> >> You are killing me here!

> >
> > Sorry, I'm a 70 year old, hemorrhoidal, over weight, male. Happy now?

>
> Yes.
>
> 56 year old curmudgeon in training here. Haven't got the cane shaking
> thing down quiet yet ("Kids these days!"). Need to learn how to scowl
> at folks with a walker too. If I fail at being a curmudgeon, I could
> also switch over to "Old Fart". At this rate it will be Toothless Old
> Fart! :-)
>
> I asked about your gender as my wife in the most intelligent
> person I have ever know (165+ IQ) and she is also the best writer
> I have ever know. I recognized a few of her techniques in your
> writing. Thought you sounded really smart like my wife. The
> wine thing above sounds like some of her handiwork. (Did
> I put my foot too far into my mouth? Didn't mean to call you a
> "dudette", just a good word smith.)
>
> -T


Most of that particular rant came from "The Vegetarian Myth: Food,
Justice, and Sustainability" by Lierre Keith [A woman]
<http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myt...ability/dp/160
4860804/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281718588&sr=1-1>
(Available at better libraries near you)
p. 230 - 32

It's a good read.

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party



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In article >, Todd >
wrote:

> On 03/18/2013 06:18 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> > . > wrote:
> > : Julie > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Something went wrong here with my post and all my material seems to not
> > have come throughat all. It was a rather complicated series of comments ,
> > mostly to Julie about , not cites, but where I learned much of hte
> > material about homnivores, Mad COw disease and feeding animals downed
> > animals, etc from reading Newspapers and listening to news on teh TV and
> > Radio(Mostly NPR) as well as material I remember learning some 60 years
> > ago in HS biology. I also learned about the harm that corn, actually a
> > perfectly good food for non-diabetics if eaten within reason, is a
> > terrible food that cannot be digested by cows. It tears up their guts.
> > this information I read , in both Omnivore's dilemma by Polard and Michael
> > S---? book on the cattle industry, but i forget the name(senior moment-it
> > will come to me in the middle of the night, causing me to lose sleep:-)


You may be thinking Michael Pollan in both instances.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/ma...?pagewanted=al
l&src=pm

> >
> > I interleafed it, but none of it seems to have gotten through. No idea
> > why.
> >
> > Wendy

>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> Rats. I adore your writing.
>
> The mad cow thing is disgusting. What made them think they
> could turn herbivores into cannibals?

They did. Slaughter house scraps, and meat unsuitable for human
consumption are added as a protein source to chicken feed. Some falls
onto the straw litter in the chickens coups, and the litter is is then
feed to the cows to complete the cycle. Grazing cows are also know to
eat small birds. Odd behavior for an herbivore, don't you think?
<http://www.slate.com/articles/health...012/11/deer_ea
t_meat_herbivores_and_carnivores_are_not_so_clearl y_divided.html>
<http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzool...ry-in-cows-and
-deer/>

> Bad enough they
> stand in their own scat (poop) in feed lots. Herbivore's
> are conveyor belts: they walk and the grass (cellulose)
> goes in one end and the scat goes out the other. They
> never stand in their own scat. (Then birds eat the bugs
> and then it decomposes into the soil and the grass
> grows back. Full circle.)


"Grass," so understood, is the foundation of the intricate food chain
Joel Salatin has assembled at Polyface, where a half dozen different
animal species are raised together in an intensive rotational dance on
the theme of symbiosis. Salatin is the choreographer and the grasses are
his verdurous stage; the dance has made Polyface one of the most
productive and influential alternative farms in America.

³The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals²
by Michael Pollan
<http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038
583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1>

(Available at a library near you)

>
> About three years ago, before I knew about T2, I grew some
> hybridized (for sugar content) corn. The crop bombed, but
> I did get about one meal out of it. It was very tasty,
> as is anything out of an organic garden. But, I do remember
> it was so sweet it was like eating candy.


And soon, because of GMOs, and hybrid plants, Monsanto, and their ilk
will control the food we eat. Next time you grow a garden, use "open
pollinated" seeds, and at least give yourself a chance to resist.

<http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/articles/monsanto.htm>

And here's how

Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable
Gardeners,
by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy
<http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-T...rdeners/dp/188
2424581/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238951517&sr=1-1>

(Available at the same library near you)

> Nice if they
> hybridized it for protein and fat. Fat chance. Not as
> addictive.


Oh, Cargill, or Archer Daniels Midland would find some way to screw it
up, all in the name of making a profit.

The more general term glucose syrup is often used synonymously with corn
syrup, since glucose syrup is in the United States most commonly made
from corn starch. Corn syrup is distinct from high-fructose corn syrup
(HFCS), which is created when corn syrup undergoes enzymatic processing,
producing a sweeter compound that contains higher levels of fructose.

Fructose (levulose) doesn't satiate as quickly as glucose (dextrose),
and you end up eating MORE.
>
> Senior moments have an upside. Every morning you get to eat new
> food, watch new movies, meet new people ... :-)
>
> -T


.. . . . and the farts turn wet.
Best leave "senior moments" for when you need someone to wipe the "Creme
of Wheat" off your chin.

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

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Billy > wrote:

: ?The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals?
: by Michael Pollan
: <http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038
: 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1>

: (Available at a library near you)

: >
: > About three years ago, before I knew about T2, I grew some
: > hybridized (for sugar content) corn. The crop bombed, but
: > I did get about one meal out of it. It was very tasty,
: > as is anything out of an organic garden. But, I do remember
: > it was so sweet it was like eating candy.
:
: And soon, because of GMOs, and hybrid plants, Monsanto, and their ilk
: will control the food we eat. Next time you grow a garden, use "open
: pollinated" seeds, and at least give yourself a chance to resist.

: <http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/articles/monsanto.htm>

: And here's how

I was tinking of Michael Pollan, Omnivore's dilemma and the other Fastfood
Nation by Eric s-something. gory stuff on slaughterhouses.

Wendy
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In article >, Todd >
wrote:

> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in this
> > country. Mainly in the South I think.

>
>
> Road kill is just fine if you butcher it up right after
> you hit it.
>
> Now if you drag it off the road and let it putrefy for
> a few days, then it is bear, vulture, ant, maggot food.
>
> I would just leave flat skunks for the vultures. :-)


Without putting to fine a point on it, you do realize, don't you, that
your flogging a dead horse?

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

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In article >,
"W. Baker" > wrote:

> Billy > wrote:
>
> : ?The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals?
> : by Michael Pollan
> : <http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038
> : 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1>
>
> : (Available at a library near you)
>
> : >
> : > About three years ago, before I knew about T2, I grew some
> : > hybridized (for sugar content) corn. The crop bombed, but
> : > I did get about one meal out of it. It was very tasty,
> : > as is anything out of an organic garden. But, I do remember
> : > it was so sweet it was like eating candy.
> :
> : And soon, because of GMOs, and hybrid plants, Monsanto, and their ilk
> : will control the food we eat. Next time you grow a garden, use "open
> : pollinated" seeds, and at least give yourself a chance to resist.
>
> : <http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/articles/monsanto.htm>
>
> : And here's how
>
> I was tinking of Michael Pollan, Omnivore's dilemma and the other Fastfood
> Nation by Eric s-something. gory stuff on slaughterhouses.
>
> Wendy


Eric Schlosser. Is Fast Food Nation the book that encludes passages from
a slaughter house workman's diary in it? Gothic gory, evoking
portentously gloomy or horrifying scenes. I've wondered for a long time
where I read that. I've just pull it off the shelf, and will have to
take a look at it.

Thanks, I think.

Do look at the Fedco site. Our glorious leaders, and parties are trying
to lead us back to 12th Century feudalism, where we will rent our
furniture, and the clothes on our backs. If we don't see that great
profit can come from food, and that wars allow us to improve our weapons
[for sale], and that either taxpayers pay for Wall Streets gambling
[privatize the profits, and socialize the risk], or as in Cyprus, they
just want to take it from depositors to cover their gambling.

--
Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

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On 03/21/2013 03:21 PM, Billy wrote:
> In article >, Todd >
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in this
>>> country. Mainly in the South I think.

>>
>>
>> Road kill is just fine if you butcher it up right after
>> you hit it.
>>
>> Now if you drag it off the road and let it putrefy for
>> a few days, then it is bear, vulture, ant, maggot food.
>>
>> I would just leave flat skunks for the vultures. :-)

>
> Without putting to fine a point on it, you do realize, don't you, that
> your flogging a dead horse?
>


Yes, I know. I will reform.


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On 03/21/2013 12:25 PM, Billy wrote:
> In article >, Todd >
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/18/2013 06:18 PM, W. Baker wrote:
>>> . > wrote:
>>> : Julie > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Something went wrong here with my post and all my material seems to not
>>> have come throughat all. It was a rather complicated series of

comments ,
>>> mostly to Julie about , not cites, but where I learned much of hte
>>> material about homnivores, Mad COw disease and feeding animals downed
>>> animals, etc from reading Newspapers and listening to news on teh

TV and
>>> Radio(Mostly NPR) as well as material I remember learning some 60 years
>>> ago in HS biology. I also learned about the harm that corn, actually a
>>> perfectly good food for non-diabetics if eaten within reason, is a
>>> terrible food that cannot be digested by cows. It tears up their guts.
>>> this information I read , in both Omnivore's dilemma by Polard and

Michael
>>> S---? book on the cattle industry, but i forget the name(senior

moment-it
>>> will come to me in the middle of the night, causing me to lose sleep:-)

>
> You may be thinking Michael Pollan in both instances.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/ma...?pagewanted=al
> l&src=pm
>
>>>
>>> I interleafed it, but none of it seems to have gotten through. No idea
>>> why.
>>>
>>> Wendy

>>
>> Hi Wendy,
>>
>> Rats. I adore your writing.
>>
>> The mad cow thing is disgusting. What made them think they
>> could turn herbivores into cannibals?

> They did. Slaughter house scraps, and meat unsuitable for human
> consumption are added as a protein source to chicken feed. Some falls
> onto the straw litter in the chickens coups, and the litter is is then
> feed to the cows to complete the cycle. Grazing cows are also know to
> eat small birds. Odd behavior for an herbivore, don't you think?
> <http://www.slate.com/articles/health...012/11/deer_ea
> t_meat_herbivores_and_carnivores_are_not_so_clearl y_divided.html>
> <http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzool...ry-in-cows-and
> -deer/>
>
>> Bad enough they
>> stand in their own scat (poop) in feed lots. Herbivore's
>> are conveyor belts: they walk and the grass (cellulose)
>> goes in one end and the scat goes out the other. They
>> never stand in their own scat. (Then birds eat the bugs
>> and then it decomposes into the soil and the grass
>> grows back. Full circle.)

>
> "Grass," so understood, is the foundation of the intricate food chain
> Joel Salatin has assembled at Polyface, where a half dozen different
> animal species are raised together in an intensive rotational dance on
> the theme of symbiosis. Salatin is the choreographer and the grasses are
> his verdurous stage; the dance has made Polyface one of the most
> productive and influential alternative farms in America.
>
> ³The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals²
> by Michael Pollan
> <http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038
> 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1>
>
> (Available at a library near you)
>
>>
>> About three years ago, before I knew about T2, I grew some
>> hybridized (for sugar content) corn. The crop bombed, but
>> I did get about one meal out of it. It was very tasty,
>> as is anything out of an organic garden. But, I do remember
>> it was so sweet it was like eating candy.

>
> And soon, because of GMOs, and hybrid plants, Monsanto, and their ilk
> will control the food we eat. Next time you grow a garden, use "open
> pollinated" seeds, and at least give yourself a chance to resist.
>
> <http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/articles/monsanto.htm>
>
> And here's how
>
> Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable
> Gardeners,
> by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy
> <http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-T...rdeners/dp/188
> 2424581/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238951517&sr=1-1>
>
> (Available at the same library near you)
>
>> Nice if they
>> hybridized it for protein and fat. Fat chance. Not as
>> addictive.

>
> Oh, Cargill, or Archer Daniels Midland would find some way to screw it
> up, all in the name of making a profit.
>
> The more general term glucose syrup is often used synonymously with corn
> syrup, since glucose syrup is in the United States most commonly made
> from corn starch. Corn syrup is distinct from high-fructose corn syrup
> (HFCS), which is created when corn syrup undergoes enzymatic processing,
> producing a sweeter compound that contains higher levels of fructose.
>
> Fructose (levulose) doesn't satiate as quickly as glucose (dextrose),
> and you end up eating MORE.
>>
>> Senior moments have an upside. Every morning you get to eat new
>> food, watch new movies, meet new people ...
>>
>> -T


Great read. Thank you! I did not realize they had figured out
a way to turn chickens into cannibals too. YUK! And cows
will eat most of anything they can catch, especially the
occational grass hopper that has a case of the slows. They
are suppose to eat grass.

I am remembering a documentary on full circle farming I watched
on Roku/netflix, but I don't remember the name, so I can not
reference it. In the documentary one full circle farmer in
Oregon said he was getting $1100 per acre where his neighbors
were getting $400 per acre just running conventional cows.
If what the framer said was true, I can see a switch to full
circle just on economic grounds.

His cows seemed really happy too. He said what he was really
doing was growing grass. (Grass, Produce, Turkeys, Turkey eggs,
Chickens, Chicken Eggs, Lamb, more grass.)

And what does this have to do with Diabetic cooking? If it does
not taste good, you won't eat it. Produce and meat that tastes
good will keep you from being tempted to go back to those
"food like substances". Which is why I am forcing myself to
learn how to cook diabetic. If the food tastes good and I
look forward to it, why would I ever be tempted? (Okay,
there is the body parts falling off aspect, but...) And,
when you get the cooking part down, it is actually a bit fun.

-T

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Todd > wrote:
: On 03/21/2013 03:21 PM, Billy wrote:
: > In article >, Todd >
: > wrote:
: >
: >> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: >>> Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in this
: >>> country. Mainly in the South I think.
: >>
: >>
: >> Road kill is just fine if you butcher it up right after
: >> you hit it.
: >>
: >> Now if you drag it off the road and let it putrefy for
: >> a few days, then it is bear, vulture, ant, maggot food.
: >>
: >> I would just leave flat skunks for the vultures. :-)
: >
: > Without putting to fine a point on it, you do realize, don't you, that
: > your flogging a dead horse?
: >

: Yes, I know. I will reform.
You do know that in my area of the Carskills there are often nasty acidnet
with cars and deer, particularly at night. If the driver is OK and
doesn't seem to know much about game, the State plice are always willing
to take the dead deer off their hands. it works out to be a very
expensive way to get a deer out of season, but those deer that are killed
by the car are generally eaten withe by the car owner or, if s//he is
squeemich, the police officer's family. Kind of large road kill that
usually doesn't go to waste.

Wendy
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I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
"cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a
couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy
breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I have
hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc. at
the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low carb
beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar over
it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.

"Todd" wrote in message ...

On 03/21/2013 03:21 PM, Billy wrote:
> In article >, Todd >
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in
>>> this
>>> country. Mainly in the South I think.

>>
>>
>> Road kill is just fine if you butcher it up right after
>> you hit it.
>>
>> Now if you drag it off the road and let it putrefy for
>> a few days, then it is bear, vulture, ant, maggot food.
>>
>> I would just leave flat skunks for the vultures. :-)

>
> Without putting to fine a point on it, you do realize, don't you, that
> your flogging a dead horse?
>


Yes, I know. I will reform.

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On 03/22/2013 06:21 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Todd > wrote:
> : On 03/21/2013 03:21 PM, Billy wrote:
> : > In article >, Todd >
> : > wrote:
> : >
> : >> On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> : >>> Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in this
> : >>> country. Mainly in the South I think.
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> Road kill is just fine if you butcher it up right after
> : >> you hit it.
> : >>
> : >> Now if you drag it off the road and let it putrefy for
> : >> a few days, then it is bear, vulture, ant, maggot food.
> : >>
> : >> I would just leave flat skunks for the vultures. :-)
> : >
> : > Without putting to fine a point on it, you do realize, don't you, that
> : > your flogging a dead horse?
> : >
>
> : Yes, I know. I will reform.
> You do know that in my area of the Carskills there are often nasty acidnet
> with cars and deer, particularly at night. If the driver is OK and
> doesn't seem to know much about game, the State plice are always willing
> to take the dead deer off their hands. it works out to be a very
> expensive way to get a deer out of season, but those deer that are killed
> by the car are generally eaten withe by the car owner or, if s//he is
> squeemich, the police officer's family. Kind of large road kill that
> usually doesn't go to waste.
>
> Wendy
>


Or its what the boys get to eat at the big house for dinner.

Sounds like a rational way of handling things.

I am not reforming.

-T
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On 03/22/2013 06:23 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
> "cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
> used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a
> couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
> friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy
> breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
> prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
> there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
> easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I have
> hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc. at
> the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low carb
> beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
> and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
> with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar over
> it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
> and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
> mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.


Hi Oz,

Ouch! Get that tooth looked at.

Thank you for the tips! I make soft boiled eggs occasionally,
but can only eat a few and I am still hungry afterward.
Maybe I just don't know what to prepare them with?

That meat loaf thing sounds interesting. Any favorite
formulas/recipes?

-T


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"Todd" wrote in message ...

On 03/22/2013 06:23 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
> "cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
> used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up
> a
> couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
> friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and
> easy
> breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
> prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
> there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
> easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I
> have
> hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc.
> at
> the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low
> carb
> beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
> and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
> with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar
> over
> it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
> and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
> mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.


Hi Oz,

Ouch! Get that tooth looked at.

Thank you for the tips! I make soft boiled eggs occasionally,
but can only eat a few and I am still hungry afterward.
Maybe I just don't know what to prepare them with?

That meat loaf thing sounds interesting. Any favorite
formulas/recipes?

______________

There was an infection under the tooth, had it x-rayed yesterday,
antibiotics have kicked in Add any low carb veggie to eggs to fill
it out. Maybe a bit of full fat cheese to much on as well. I don't have
a favourite meat loaf recipe as I toss in whatever I have at the time. I
do always mix in some "sausage mince" to use as a binder. Do remember
though that to make in a muffin tin you need fairly low fat ingredients
or you get a pool of fat around each muffin. Sausage mince is fatty.
From memory, JC used either Graham crackers or low carb bread as the
binder with some egg. So start with lean beef mince (what you call
hamburger?), some kind if binder like the bread or crackers, chopped
onion, herbs of your choice, one beaten egg, salt and pepper. I used a
bit of Worcestershire sauce sometimes and chopped tomatoes. I always
taste my raw mince mixtures before cooking to make sure they taste
right, especially with the salt.

As with most things, I sauté things like onion and garlic first for more
flavour. I would probably cook for about 20-25 mins at 350?F. We are
metric here, someone might suggest a different temp as I am guessing. I
haven't made these for a while but I do remember I loved them for lunch,
nuked, and with the salad veggies we have on hamburgers here (lettuce,
tomato, beetroot, lol) plus a dash of ketchup.

-T

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On 03/22/2013 06:52 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> We are metric here,


Hi Oz,

Thank you! So meat loaf is like an omelet: it is
a vehicle to use up leftovers (within reason).

Metric? Where do you hail from?

-T
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"Todd" wrote in message ...

On 03/22/2013 06:52 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> We are metric here,


Hi Oz,

Thank you! So meat loaf is like an omelet: it is
a vehicle to use up leftovers (within reason).

_____

I suppose you could say that, lol.

---------------------------

Metric? Where do you hail from?

--------------------------------

Brisbane, Australia.
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On 03/22/2013 07:16 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>
> Brisbane, Australia.


Beautiful place.
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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf "cupcakes"
>that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann, used to make
>batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a couple every
>morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another friend "Adam"
>cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy breakfasts and
>snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already prepared it makes it
>easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when there is nothing prepared
>in my fridge I have been known to take the easy way out and make a peanut
>butter sandwich.... At good times I have hard boiled eggs, muffin size
>frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc. at the ready in the fridge. Another
>poster, Alan S, often has his low carb beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday
>at lunch, when my mouth was so sore and that one sensitive tooth howled
>every time I accidentally chewed with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured
>a bit of balsamic vinegar over it on the plate and scarfed it down.
>Afternoon tea was some ice-cream and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches
>Dinner was fried eggs and mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the
>tooth too much to eat.
>
> "Todd" wrote in message ...


I make my meatloaf freeform, individual loaves. Keep it in the freezer.
Need to make some more. I have none! Need to start saving some extra bread
to put in it. I only put a little bit. I do put a ton of cooked veggies in
it.

When I ate eggs, I bought 2 dozen at a time. The dozen that I hard boiled
were tinted. One year after Easter some store was practically giving away
Easter egg dye. I bought some and would use a tiny bit to dye them. That
way we could identify the boiled ones. But now they've gone off of boiled
eggs so I don't make them any more.

Now they eat microwaved eggs. Made in a paper bowl. Husband uses real eggs
but Angela uses an egg product. If using real ones you have to whisk them
first. Put the eggs in the bowl with about a half a teaspoon of olive oil
or butter and a sprinkle of salt. You could add pepper and herbs if you
want. Can also add meat, veggies and cheese. If adding cheese add it
towards the end. Nuke for about 2.5 minutes, stir, then add cheese if
using. Nuke for another 20-30 seconds. Can eat right from the bowl.

I don't often snack between meals but when I do it is usually something like
olives or unsweetened coconut. I also have some Lupini beans. I love
those!




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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Todd" wrote in message ...
>
> On 03/22/2013 06:23 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>> I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
>> "cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
>> used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a
>> couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
>> friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy
>> breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
>> prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
>> there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
>> easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I have
>> hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc. at
>> the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low carb
>> beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
>> and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
>> with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar over
>> it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
>> and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
>> mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.

>
> Hi Oz,
>
> Ouch! Get that tooth looked at.
>
> Thank you for the tips! I make soft boiled eggs occasionally,
> but can only eat a few and I am still hungry afterward.
> Maybe I just don't know what to prepare them with?
>
> That meat loaf thing sounds interesting. Any favorite
> formulas/recipes?
>
> ______________
>
> There was an infection under the tooth, had it x-rayed yesterday,
> antibiotics have kicked in Add any low carb veggie to eggs to fill it
> out. Maybe a bit of full fat cheese to much on as well. I don't have a
> favourite meat loaf recipe as I toss in whatever I have at the time. I do
> always mix in some "sausage mince" to use as a binder. Do remember though
> that to make in a muffin tin you need fairly low fat ingredients or you
> get a pool of fat around each muffin. Sausage mince is fatty. From memory,
> JC used either Graham crackers or low carb bread as the binder with some
> egg. So start with lean beef mince (what you call hamburger?), some kind
> if binder like the bread or crackers, chopped onion, herbs of your choice,
> one beaten egg, salt and pepper. I used a bit of Worcestershire sauce
> sometimes and chopped tomatoes. I always taste my raw mince mixtures
> before cooking to make sure they taste right, especially with the salt.
>
> As with most things, I sauté things like onion and garlic first for more
> flavour. I would probably cook for about 20-25 mins at 350?F. We are
> metric here, someone might suggest a different temp as I am guessing. I
> haven't made these for a while but I do remember I loved them for lunch,
> nuked, and with the salad veggies we have on hamburgers here (lettuce,
> tomato, beetroot, lol) plus a dash of ketchup.
>
> -T


I learned here to cook the veggies first. Chop finely or put through the
food processor, then sauté in a little olive oil until they're soft and the
liquid has cooked out. If you don't do this, they will give off liquid as
the meatloaf cooks and it can make a mess in your oven. I always use
peppers and onions. Usually some spinach, zucchini, maybe some carrots,
tomatoes, perhaps mushrooms.

I do not put milk or egg in mine but tomato juice, or a mixed vegetable
juice. I used to use a small amount of oatmeal that had been whizzed in the
blender. Would soak that in the juice. But I can't have oats now. Now
that I think of it, I'm not so sure that my bread would be good in there
because it tastes sweet. Angela eats a sugar free bran cereal. I'll bet
that would work if crushed up. Or maybe I can find some kind of whole wheat
crackers. I don't put a lot of filler in mine. Maybe a handful to a huge
bowl of mix. I make it in my huge pasta bowl and it is enough to make at
least 4-6 meals for three of us.

I do use Italian type seasonings and ketchup. And I like to top it with
chili sauce. Of course there are carbs in these things. I used to buy the
low carb ketchup from Heinz but not sure they make it any more. I have
tried other brands but they reminded me of tomato paste. So I suppose you
could also use a little tomato paste and perhaps a bit of extra seasoning.

I don't usually like sausage in my meatloaf or anything else because I am
not a sausage lover. But my husband's aunt made it with sausage and ground
beef and it was good. She likely used Italian mild sausage.


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"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Todd" wrote in message ...
>>
>> On 03/22/2013 06:23 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>> I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
>>> "cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
>>> used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a
>>> couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
>>> friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy
>>> breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
>>> prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
>>> there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
>>> easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I have
>>> hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc. at
>>> the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low carb
>>> beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
>>> and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
>>> with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar over
>>> it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
>>> and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
>>> mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.

>>
>> Hi Oz,
>>
>> Ouch! Get that tooth looked at.
>>
>> Thank you for the tips! I make soft boiled eggs occasionally,
>> but can only eat a few and I am still hungry afterward.
>> Maybe I just don't know what to prepare them with?
>>
>> That meat loaf thing sounds interesting. Any favorite
>> formulas/recipes?
>>
>> ______________
>>
>> There was an infection under the tooth, had it x-rayed yesterday,
>> antibiotics have kicked in Add any low carb veggie to eggs to fill it
>> out. Maybe a bit of full fat cheese to much on as well. I don't have a
>> favourite meat loaf recipe as I toss in whatever I have at the time. I do
>> always mix in some "sausage mince" to use as a binder. Do remember though
>> that to make in a muffin tin you need fairly low fat ingredients or you
>> get a pool of fat around each muffin. Sausage mince is fatty. From
>> memory, JC used either Graham crackers or low carb bread as the binder
>> with some egg. So start with lean beef mince (what you call hamburger?),
>> some kind if binder like the bread or crackers, chopped onion, herbs of
>> your choice, one beaten egg, salt and pepper. I used a bit of
>> Worcestershire sauce sometimes and chopped tomatoes. I always taste my
>> raw mince mixtures before cooking to make sure they taste right,
>> especially with the salt.
>>
>> As with most things, I sauté things like onion and garlic first for more
>> flavour. I would probably cook for about 20-25 mins at 350?F. We are
>> metric here, someone might suggest a different temp as I am guessing. I
>> haven't made these for a while but I do remember I loved them for lunch,
>> nuked, and with the salad veggies we have on hamburgers here (lettuce,
>> tomato, beetroot, lol) plus a dash of ketchup.
>>
>> -T

>
> I learned here to cook the veggies first. Chop finely or put through the
> food processor, then sauté in a little olive oil until they're soft and
> the liquid has cooked out. If you don't do this, they will give off
> liquid as the meatloaf cooks and it can make a mess in your oven. I
> always use peppers and onions. Usually some spinach, zucchini, maybe some
> carrots, tomatoes, perhaps mushrooms.


Not really true. I seldom do saute the veggies, and never had a mess in my
oven. I imagine it depends more on the pan you use. I use a foil lined sheet
pan and shape the loaf. No runover like can happen with loaf pans.

Cheri

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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?


"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Todd" wrote in message ...
>>>
>>> On 03/22/2013 06:23 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>>> I just remembered something. I just saw a recipe for meat loaf
>>>> "cupcakes" that jogged my memory A late poster here, JC Hartmann,
>>>> used to make batches of meat loaf in muffin tins at night and heat up a
>>>> couple every morning for a quick business person's breakfast. Another
>>>> friend "Adam" cooks up hard boiled eggs by the dozen for quick and easy
>>>> breakfasts and snacks. When low carb meals and snacks are already
>>>> prepared it makes it easier to eat right in my opinion. At times when
>>>> there is nothing prepared in my fridge I have been known to take the
>>>> easy way out and make a peanut butter sandwich.... At good times I have
>>>> hard boiled eggs, muffin size frittatas, crudités, olives, meats etc.
>>>> at
>>>> the ready in the fridge. Another poster, Alan S, often has his low carb
>>>> beef stew for breakfast. Yesterday at lunch, when my mouth was so sore
>>>> and that one sensitive tooth howled every time I accidentally chewed
>>>> with it, I opened a can of salmon, poured a bit of balsamic vinegar
>>>> over
>>>> it on the plate and scarfed it down. Afternoon tea was some ice-cream
>>>> and tub of WW mango jelly with peaches Dinner was fried eggs and
>>>> mushrooms, unfortunately the mushies hurt the tooth too much to eat.
>>>
>>> Hi Oz,
>>>
>>> Ouch! Get that tooth looked at.
>>>
>>> Thank you for the tips! I make soft boiled eggs occasionally,
>>> but can only eat a few and I am still hungry afterward.
>>> Maybe I just don't know what to prepare them with?
>>>
>>> That meat loaf thing sounds interesting. Any favorite
>>> formulas/recipes?
>>>
>>> ______________
>>>
>>> There was an infection under the tooth, had it x-rayed yesterday,
>>> antibiotics have kicked in Add any low carb veggie to eggs to fill
>>> it out. Maybe a bit of full fat cheese to much on as well. I don't have
>>> a favourite meat loaf recipe as I toss in whatever I have at the time. I
>>> do always mix in some "sausage mince" to use as a binder. Do remember
>>> though that to make in a muffin tin you need fairly low fat ingredients
>>> or you get a pool of fat around each muffin. Sausage mince is fatty.
>>> From memory, JC used either Graham crackers or low carb bread as the
>>> binder with some egg. So start with lean beef mince (what you call
>>> hamburger?), some kind if binder like the bread or crackers, chopped
>>> onion, herbs of your choice, one beaten egg, salt and pepper. I used a
>>> bit of Worcestershire sauce sometimes and chopped tomatoes. I always
>>> taste my raw mince mixtures before cooking to make sure they taste
>>> right, especially with the salt.
>>>
>>> As with most things, I sauté things like onion and garlic first for more
>>> flavour. I would probably cook for about 20-25 mins at 350?F. We are
>>> metric here, someone might suggest a different temp as I am guessing. I
>>> haven't made these for a while but I do remember I loved them for lunch,
>>> nuked, and with the salad veggies we have on hamburgers here (lettuce,
>>> tomato, beetroot, lol) plus a dash of ketchup.
>>>
>>> -T

>>
>> I learned here to cook the veggies first. Chop finely or put through the
>> food processor, then sauté in a little olive oil until they're soft and
>> the liquid has cooked out. If you don't do this, they will give off
>> liquid as the meatloaf cooks and it can make a mess in your oven. I
>> always use peppers and onions. Usually some spinach, zucchini, maybe
>> some carrots, tomatoes, perhaps mushrooms.

>
> Not really true. I seldom do saute the veggies, and never had a mess in my
> oven. I imagine it depends more on the pan you use. I use a foil lined
> sheet pan and shape the loaf. No runover like can happen with loaf pans.
>
> Cheri


I don't use a loaf pan. Just a lipped cookie sheet but I do put a ton of
veggies in mine. Pretty much about half meat and half veggies. I have
never had a mess either but it did get worrisome when I didn't cook them
first. They let off sooo much liquid! It seemed to get sucked back into
them as they cooled but it was very hard to remove the pans from the oven.


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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

Julie Bove > wrote:

: I don't use a loaf pan. Just a lipped cookie sheet but I do put a ton of
: veggies in mine. Pretty much about half meat and half veggies. I have
: never had a mess either but it did get worrisome when I didn't cook them
: first. They let off sooo much liquid! It seemed to get sucked back into
: them as they cooled but it was very hard to remove the pans from the oven.

I don't cook my vegetables, use my low carb bread whizzed in the food
processor, and cook it in an old 9" metal sqquare cake panwith room on the
dises so the liquid can acmulate there. I sometimes put otatoes , halved
adn cut side up around the meatloaf if I am havign non-diabetics like my
kids over for dinner adn it all cooks at one

Wendy

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Default Whole food -- gardening, etc.

In article >, Todd >
wrote:

>
> I stink as a farmer. But, that does not stop me from trying.
> I was turning my soil over to kill the encroaching grass
> in my organic garden last week. The soil looked and felt
> better than I remember. So things are looking up.
>
> I am so looking forward to fresh picked zucchini! Winter
> is driving me nuts.


I started seeds on 3/17: 14 varieties of tomatoes, and a bunch of
flowers. There will be more veggies started later, and many which are
directly sown in the soil once it's warm enough.

Spring is coming very late to the Boston area. I really need the feel
of sun on my head and soil on my hands.

PP
--
"What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
- Chris Malcolm
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