"annead" wrote.

> Hi all...
>
> I'm seriously considering opening a Chocolate Cafe -similar to
> Starbucks - with a variety of hot and cold chocolate drinks with
> pastries and some candy bar sales, etc. I haven't really seen anything
> like this where I live (DC area) but know of several in Europe. What do
> you think? Thanks for your comments!!
>
> Anne

From what I have seen in San Francisco the concept has limited
appeal. Combine the Chocolate Cafe with a Starbuckoid coffee shop
and you might survive.

Good luck. The Chocolat shops were sold to a cult and
became a mail order business. I don't know what happened to them
after that.
The Chocolate Faery in the Castro went out of business and/or
moved to another city in the Pacific Northwest.
Two other quality chocolate shops in the city have gone down
the tubes.
A cafe featuring mainly chocolate dishes failed to prosper.

Good chocolate is hard to sell to a nation raised on Hershey
bars.
Scharfen-Berger still has a chocolate cafe attached to their
manufactury in Berkeley. Giradelli(sic) (Eagle brand) has a couple
of chocolate shops selling their products in the tourist parts
of San Francisco.

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

Hi all...

I'm seriously considering opening a Chocolate Cafe -similar to
Starbucks - with a variety of hot and cold chocolate drinks with
pastries and some candy bar sales, etc. I haven't really seen anything
like this where I live (DC area) but know of several in Europe. What do
you think? Thanks for your comments!!



Anne

"annead" > writes:

> Hi all...
>
> I'm seriously considering opening a Chocolate Cafe -similar to
> Starbucks - with a variety of hot and cold chocolate drinks with
> pastries and some candy bar sales, etc. I haven't really seen anything
> like this where I live (DC area) but know of several in Europe. What do
> you think? Thanks for your comments!!

There is a kiosk at the Valley Fair Mall in San Jose that is trying to
do what you are talking about. They also sell coffee drinks. I think
they might be affiliated with Ghiradelli. The costs much be much
lower than renting a store.


Eddie

bobbie sellers wrote:
> "annead" wrote.
>
>> Hi all...
>>
>> I'm seriously considering opening a Chocolate Cafe -similar to
>> Starbucks - with a variety of hot and cold chocolate drinks with
>> pastries and some candy bar sales, etc. I haven't really seen anything
>> like this where I live (DC area) but know of several in Europe. What do
>> you think? Thanks for your comments!!
>>
>> Anne
>
> From what I have seen in San Francisco the concept has limited
> appeal. Combine the Chocolate Cafe with a Starbuckoid coffee shop
> and you might survive.
>
> Good luck. The Chocolat shops were sold to a cult and
> became a mail order business. I don't know what happened to them
> after that.
> The Chocolate Faery in the Castro went out of business and/or
> moved to another city in the Pacific Northwest.
> Two other quality chocolate shops in the city have gone down
> the tubes.
> A cafe featuring mainly chocolate dishes failed to prosper.
>
> Good chocolate is hard to sell to a nation raised on Hershey
> bars.
> Scharfen-Berger still has a chocolate cafe attached to their
> manufactury in Berkeley. Giradelli(sic) (Eagle brand) has a couple
> of chocolate shops selling their products in the tourist parts
> of San Francisco.
>

On the other hand, just a little south of SF, in Santa Cruz, is Richard
Donnelly Chocolates. Top notch chocolate, and it's nationally regarded
as possibly the best in the country. And they _seem_ to be doing well
(though, they're also expensive, but IMO, well worth it -- the absolute
best chocolate I've ever had).

http://www.donnellychocolates.com/ik...p?func=catalog

(though, going back to the point of this topic -- I don't think they do
any chocolate drinks)

thanks for all the comments, like I said hadn't noticed those types of
establishments around so there must be a good reason. Thanks again.

Near my little Mayberry of a town, there is a chocolate shop that sells
hand-made truffles and other chocolate confections, but not chocolate
drinks. They have recently added espresso drinks to their offerings. I would
think if even this non-urban area (Central NC) can support a fine chocolate
shop, then someone with a good business plan should be able to succeed
almost anywhere. There is also another chocolates shop, but they sell more
along the lines of barks, cups (almond cups, PB cups, etc), other candies
such as jelly beans and those jelled things that are supposed to look like
fruit. They also sell "gifty" items. This places smells so strongly of mint
that the one time I bought a chocolate confection there, it was tainted with
artificial mint. I never recommend that shop to friends, but I do highly
recommend the other one.

--
Wendy
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
un-STUFF email address to reply




"annead" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> thanks for all the comments, like I said hadn't noticed those types of
> establishments around so there must be a good reason. Thanks again.
>

at Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:02:14 GMT in <1133118296.007217.168900
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, (annead) wrote :

>Hi all...
>
>I'm seriously considering opening a Chocolate Cafe -similar to
>Starbucks - with a variety of hot and cold chocolate drinks with
>pastries and some candy bar sales, etc. I haven't really seen anything
>like this where I live (DC area) but know of several in Europe. What do
>you think? Thanks for your comments!!
>
Location will be crucial. Here in Seattle the prototype is Dilettante
Chocolates, with chocolate cafes in Capitol Hill, Pike Place Market, and
6th avenue downtown. Note that they've sited them in areas with high foot
traffic. That's the critical aspect because unlike coffeeshops where people
often drive in, chocolate tends to be more of an impulse that hits you as
you walk by. Site the exhaust vent so that it blows out to the street. Be
sure to display rather decadent things in the window.

If you're going to carry chocolate bars, try to pick up brands you can't
just find on any street corner, but that are real, legitimate bean-to-bar
manufacturers, not just somebody repackaging someone else's couverture.
Resist the urge to charge excessively for them. Companies like Amedei,
Pralus, and Bonnat make good choices because they're fairly limited in
availability. Cluizel, Valrhona, or Scharffen Berger, by contrast, are
great chocolates but bad choices because they have wide distribution. And
make sure that with whatever brands you stock you carry most of their line,
not just one or 2 items.

Choose carefully your brand of chocolate to make the drinks from. For
instance, it'd be nice to go with a high-end chocolatier, but that means
the price for a drink would be exorbitant. Guittard is a good choice
because as a domestic brand they're cheap, and they're every bit as good as
any chocolatier in the world - on a par with Cluizel, Domori, etc.

Offer a variety of drinks at a variety of intensities. Some people will
like the strong, espresso-like hit of a pure unsweetened chocolate simply
melted and put in a demitasse, but others will want something mild and
milky - a good high-end hot chocolate. Price fairly and offer realistic
sizes (viz. is anybody going to want to drink the equivalent of 200g of
chocolate? Probably not. OTOH, people will be equally turned off if you
serve ordinary hot chocolate in 4-oz demitasse cups).

Good luck.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

at Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:04:40 GMT in
>,
(frood) wrote :

>Near my little Mayberry of a town, there is a chocolate shop that sells
>hand-made truffles ...
>There is also another chocolates shop, but they
>sell more along the lines of barks, cups (almond cups, PB cups, etc),
>other candies such as jelly beans and those jelled things that are
>supposed to look like fruit. They also sell "gifty" items. This places
>smells so strongly of mint that the one time I bought a chocolate
>confection there, it was tainted with artificial mint....

On a related line, what is it that has made the "truffle" so iconically
associated with "high-end" chocolate that invariably, the high-end
chocolatiers are making these kinds of confections, while meanwhile, things
like barks and cups have likewise become so associated with "low-brow"
chocolate that invariably the only place you find these is in low-end
chocolatiers? I'd kill for a truly first-rate chocolate bark or chocolate
peanut butter cup, and yet these items are not found. I find it, honestly,
snobbish and prejudicial to relegate these kinds of items automatically
into the low-end category, and it puts artificially finite limits on how
good these items can be. Yet high-end chocolatiers, even if they want to
make such items, simply can't afford to because they won't sell well in
their shop because of the image issue.

Any thoughts on this positioning dilemma?


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
> at Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:04:40 GMT in
> >,
>
> On a related line, what is it that has made the "truffle" so iconically
> associated with "high-end" chocolate that invariably, the high-end
> chocolatiers are making these kinds of confections, while meanwhile,
> things
> like barks and cups have likewise become so associated with "low-brow"
> chocolate that invariably the only place you find these is in low-end
> chocolatiers? I'd kill for a truly first-rate chocolate bark or chocolate
> peanut butter cup, and yet these items are not found. I find it, honestly,
> snobbish and prejudicial to relegate these kinds of items automatically
> into the low-end category, and it puts artificially finite limits on how
> good these items can be. Yet high-end chocolatiers, even if they want to
> make such items, simply can't afford to because they won't sell well in
> their shop because of the image issue.
>
> Any thoughts on this positioning dilemma?
>
>
> --
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

This chocolate shop that I like (Renaissance Chocolates in Cary, NC) has
recently started carrying barks (almond ones, and peppermint, red and white
for the Christmas season), and has some cups with dried fruit and chocolate.
I don't know how well they are selling, as I don't care for either
peppermint or nuts. The dried fruit ones looked tempting last time I was in,
but I was shopping only for molded chocolates at that time.

But that is not what you asked. :-) Perhaps cups and barks are associated
with "low end" chocolatiers because they are easy enough to produce by most
people in their own kitchens. "I could make that" often translates into
non-gourmet or non-artistic (as I've seen in the quilt world). I'm not
saying this is a valid reason, but I have noticed this mind set frequently.

--
Wendy (who remembered to bottom post this time around)
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
un-STUFF email address to reply

Alex Rast wrote:

> at Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:04:40 GMT in
> >,
> (frood) wrote :
>
>
>>Near my little Mayberry of a town, there is a chocolate shop that sells
>>hand-made truffles ...
>>There is also another chocolates shop, but they
>>sell more along the lines of barks, cups (almond cups, PB cups, etc),
>>other candies such as jelly beans and those jelled things that are
>>supposed to look like fruit. They also sell "gifty" items. This places
>>smells so strongly of mint that the one time I bought a chocolate
>>confection there, it was tainted with artificial mint....
>
>
> On a related line, what is it that has made the "truffle" so iconically
> associated with "high-end" chocolate that invariably, the high-end
> chocolatiers are making these kinds of confections, while meanwhile, things
> like barks and cups have likewise become so associated with "low-brow"
> chocolate that invariably the only place you find these is in low-end
> chocolatiers? I'd kill for a truly first-rate chocolate bark or chocolate
> peanut butter cup, and yet these items are not found. I find it, honestly,
> snobbish and prejudicial to relegate these kinds of items automatically
> into the low-end category, and it puts artificially finite limits on how
> good these items can be. Yet high-end chocolatiers, even if they want to
> make such items, simply can't afford to because they won't sell well in
> their shop because of the image issue.
>
> Any thoughts on this positioning dilemma?

At one restaurant where I worked we made our bark with Guittard
gourmet bittersweet. It was worth using good ingredients because
we had a pretty big following when it came to our desserts.

In my area (SF bay) there's a good number of demanding dessert
lovers who want everything to be perfect, all the way down to
the bark garnishing their sundae. They'll notice every detail
so if you use cheap ingredients you'll end up hearing about it.

You're right though when it comes to shops. I haven't been able
to find a good bark in a shop either. Cups either. Both of these
I have to make myself. Good truffles are everywhere, however.

I think it has to do with the perception as you say. Truffles
beat bark every time, so people will pay a premium for one
and insist on paying as little as possible for the other.


--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

> at Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:04:40 GMT in
> >,
> (frood) wrote :


> On a related line, what is it that has made the "truffle" so iconically
> associated with "high-end" chocolate that invariably, the high-end
> chocolatiers are making these kinds of confections, while meanwhile, things
> like barks and cups have likewise become so associated with "low-brow"
> chocolate that invariably the only place you find these is in low-end
> chocolatiers? I'd kill for a truly first-rate chocolate bark or chocolate
> peanut butter cup, and yet these items are not found. I find it, honestly,
> snobbish and prejudicial to relegate these kinds of items automatically
> into the low-end category, and it puts artificially finite limits on how
> good these items can be. Yet high-end chocolatiers, even if they want to
> make such items, simply can't afford to because they won't sell well in
> their shop because of the image issue.


We're lucky like that in the Bay Area.

Richard Donnelly makes lovely barks and has them for sale in his store.
NOT cheap though.Also has a KILLER chocolate cake mix too. mmmmmm

http://www.donnellychocolates.com/

I don't see his barks for sale on the web site so they are likelly only
made from the tailings and sold in the store. You could always call
though.

The dark chocolate chipotle is particularly good.

Reg wrote:

> You're right though when it comes to shops. I haven't been able
> to find a good bark in a shop either. Cups either. Both of these
> I have to make myself. Good truffles are everywhere, however.

What do you consider distinguishes a bark from a bar, other than the
regularity of shape?

at Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:49:04 GMT in <QsIjf.1804$s96.74@trndny01>,
(Janet Puistonen) wrote :

>Reg wrote:
>
>> You're right though when it comes to shops. I haven't been able
>> to find a good bark in a shop either. Cups either. Both of these
>> I have to make myself. Good truffles are everywhere, however.
>>
>> I think it has to do with the perception as you say. Truffles
>> beat bark every time, so people will pay a premium for one
>> and insist on paying as little as possible for the other.

>What do you consider distinguishes a bark from a bar, other than the
>regularity of shape?

IMHO a bar doesn't have nuts or other inclusions protruding. In order to
achieve this, a bar generally has a lower proportion of such additions.
Also, barks are generally thinner than most bars - although there are
exceptions. Usually the exceptions are pure chocolate bars, however.

Do "truffles beat bark"? Not every time IMHO. There are times when yes,
you're in the mood for something super-creamy, and then a truffle is the
way to go. But there are other times when you're looking for a different
sensation - something with more bite, and perhaps with more of a mix of
flavours as opposed to a very pure chocolate taste.

However, there is one commanding aspect of truffles that I suspect may make
them a winner - they're bite-size. So the format is ideal for getting a
quick fix or satisfying a craving. It's a much more impulsive sort of thing
to get. Given that the necessity of siting chocolate cafes in areas that
have high foot traffic speaks heavily to impulse buying, it should hardly
surprise us that they enjoy such a prevalence.

And in addition while truffles cost a lot on a per-pound basis, if you're
just going for that isolated impulse buy, it's easy to justify, say, $2.
But a bark is something that, not being so associated with impulse, you
would more probably be buying a fair amount, and this adds up if you use
quality ingredients to make the bark, which is where people balk - they
don't like spending $20 for, let's say, 1 lb.

OTOH, this theory doesn't account for cups. So there's something else going
on as well.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)