I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
to me. Does it help?
Does anybody have a good recipe for it?

Thanks,
Wayne in Phoenix

"RW" > wrote in message ...
>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
>to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little effort
required.

"RW" > wrote in message ...
>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
>to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little effort
required.

bk wrote:
> "RW" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>> is new to me. Does it help?
>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
> 1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
> 2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little
> effort required.

Hounds or TheFatman's, but most store bought Turkeys are already brined,
just without the nice flavors you want. And they get to charge you for
water/lb. too, aint that nice of them? Don't bother brining aldulterated or
brined Turkey's you'll not be that happy.
--

bk wrote:
> "RW" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>> is new to me. Does it help?
>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
> 1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
> 2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little
> effort required.

Hounds or TheFatman's, but most store bought Turkeys are already brined,
just without the nice flavors you want. And they get to charge you for
water/lb. too, aint that nice of them? Don't bother brining aldulterated or
brined Turkey's you'll not be that happy.
--

"RW" > wrote in message ...
> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
new
> to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
>

Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
blah, then you know it's already brined.

kili

"RW" > wrote in message ...
> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
new
> to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
>

Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
blah, then you know it's already brined.

kili

Bullshit:
Turkeys are sold "water added".
They are not brined, at least in the fashion that this NG defines brining.
You can brine any turkey and improve both its flavor and moistness, no
matter what was done to the turkey by the turkey producer. Am example is the
so called "Butterball turkey".
That , and any turkey is markedly improved by brining, even though it is
"water added"

"Duwop" > wrote in message
...
> bk wrote:
>> "RW" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>>> is new to me. Does it help?
>>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>>
>> 1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
>> 2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little
>> effort required.
>
> Hounds or TheFatman's, but most store bought Turkeys are already brined,
> just without the nice flavors you want. And they get to charge you for
> water/lb. too, aint that nice of them? Don't bother brining aldulterated
> or
> brined Turkey's you'll not be that happy.
> --
>
>
>

Bullshit:
Turkeys are sold "water added".
They are not brined, at least in the fashion that this NG defines brining.
You can brine any turkey and improve both its flavor and moistness, no
matter what was done to the turkey by the turkey producer. Am example is the
so called "Butterball turkey".
That , and any turkey is markedly improved by brining, even though it is
"water added"

"Duwop" > wrote in message
...
> bk wrote:
>> "RW" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>>> is new to me. Does it help?
>>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>>
>> 1. Yes it helps - makes for tender, juicy Turkey.
>> 2. Look up Hound's Brine - It's well worth the time and little
>> effort required.
>
> Hounds or TheFatman's, but most store bought Turkeys are already brined,
> just without the nice flavors you want. And they get to charge you for
> water/lb. too, aint that nice of them? Don't bother brining aldulterated
> or
> brined Turkey's you'll not be that happy.
> --
>
>
>

"Kent" > wrote:
>
When are ya gonna stop top posting, moron?

--
Nick, Cogito, ergo armatum sum
Happy Birthday to the United States Marine Corps since 10 November 1775!

How to use FOIA to get Military Records at http://www.stolenvalor.com/

"RW" > wrote in message ...
> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
new
> to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix

The two I have used, with small modifications are TFM (The Fat Mans) Brine
and Hounds Brine.
Both are great (save the Dave's Insanity hot sauce in TFM's case) Shits so
hot it strips paint.

--
Bruce-n-Gold Beach

>
>

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:44:27 -0700, "RW" > wrote:

>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
>to me. Does it help?
>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
http://www.webpak.net/~rescyou/turkey/turkey.htm


--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a university somewhere in Idaho
"When you can't do something completely impractical and intrinsically
useless *yourself*, you go get the Kibologists to do it for you." --J. Furr

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:08:48 GMT, "Kent" > wrote:

>Bullshit:
>Turkeys are sold "water added".
>They are not brined, at least in the fashion that this NG defines brining.

Two words, top-poster:

Kosher turkey.


--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a university somewhere in Idaho
"When you can't do something completely impractical and intrinsically
useless *yourself*, you go get the Kibologists to do it for you." --J. Furr

kilikini wrote:

> "RW" > wrote in message ...
>
>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
> new
>>to me. Does it help?
>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
> brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
> blah, then you know it's already brined.

Brining helps immensely with adding flavors and keeping the bird moist.

Your run-of-the-mill frozen turkeys usually come "enhanced" (injected)
with a salt solution. They won't take any more flavors from a brine.
Look for fresh turkeys that haven't been enhanced.

In addition to the aforementioned Hound's and TFM's brines, I have had
lots of success with Alton Brown's recipe:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_8389,00.html

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

kilikini wrote:

> "RW" > wrote in message ...
>
>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
> new
>>to me. Does it help?
>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
> brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
> blah, then you know it's already brined.

Brining helps immensely with adding flavors and keeping the bird moist.

Your run-of-the-mill frozen turkeys usually come "enhanced" (injected)
with a salt solution. They won't take any more flavors from a brine.
Look for fresh turkeys that haven't been enhanced.

In addition to the aforementioned Hound's and TFM's brines, I have had
lots of success with Alton Brown's recipe:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_8389,00.html

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

RW wrote:

> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
> to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix

What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or "already
brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry, specifically osmosis....

If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific gravity
of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause your brine to
migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine. The greater the
difference between the specific gravity, the faster this will take place.

Dick

I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water from and
area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute conentration. So
if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate that
water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone 'splain it
to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.

Thanks.

Dick Wiegand wrote:
> RW wrote:
>
>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>> is new to me. Does it help?
>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wayne in Phoenix
>
> What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or
> "already brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry,
> specifically osmosis....
>
> If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific
> gravity of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause
> your brine to migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine.
> The greater the difference between the specific gravity, the faster
> this will take place.
>
> Dick

Yo Dick, thanks for condescending to speak with us. Now, because the cells
have already accepted a salt solution into them, and are already fuller than
natural, won't any brines done after the factory brine take much longer than
with a natural (unbrined) turkey? And wont it not be as complete? And what
if I dont want to make my turkey too salty? Tell me a simple kitchen lab way
to figure out the concentrations that the bird has, and what percentage
greater than that I should make my brine for optimal osmosis to occur? How
long should I then brine an already brined 14lb. bird, and how much will
temperature effec the speed of this?

And if my mind is so thick, why doesnt it leak out because of osmosititis?
I dontgettit.




--

"Nathan Lau" > wrote in message
om...
> kilikini wrote:
>
>> "RW" > wrote in message ...
>>
>>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
>> new
>>>to me. Does it help?
>>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
>> brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
>> blah, then you know it's already brined.
>
> Brining helps immensely with adding flavors and keeping the bird moist.
>
> Your run-of-the-mill frozen turkeys usually come "enhanced" (injected)
> with a salt solution. They won't take any more flavors from a brine. Look
> for fresh turkeys that haven't been enhanced.
>
> In addition to the aforementioned Hound's and TFM's brines, I have had
> lots of success with Alton Brown's recipe:
>
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_8389,00.html
>
> --
> Aloha,
>
> Nathan Lau
> San Jose, CA
>
> #include <std.disclaimer>

I might also add that Martha Stewart did a brine with liquor. I think it was
boubon. Now she's probly making her own. I wonder if she gets martinis in
that place.

Dick Wiegand wrote:
>
> RW wrote:
>
>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
>>to me. Does it help?
>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or "already
> brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry, specifically osmosis....
>
> If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific gravity
> of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause your brine to
> migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine. The greater the
> difference between the specific gravity, the faster this will take place.

But if you make a brine saltier than the injected solution, you'll end
up with a saltier bird. Turkey ham anyone?

Theoretically, if you lessen the salt and use other water-soluble
flavorings like citrus juices, those flavors will enter the meat. But
IME, the pre-brined bird didn't take the Hound's brine as well as I had
hoped.

I stand by the recommendation to use a fresh bird as opposed to an
"enhanced" bird.

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

Dick Wiegand wrote:
>
> RW wrote:
>
>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is new
>>to me. Does it help?
>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or "already
> brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry, specifically osmosis....
>
> If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific gravity
> of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause your brine to
> migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine. The greater the
> difference between the specific gravity, the faster this will take place.

But if you make a brine saltier than the injected solution, you'll end
up with a saltier bird. Turkey ham anyone?

Theoretically, if you lessen the salt and use other water-soluble
flavorings like citrus juices, those flavors will enter the meat. But
IME, the pre-brined bird didn't take the Hound's brine as well as I had
hoped.

I stand by the recommendation to use a fresh bird as opposed to an
"enhanced" bird.

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

Duwop wrote:
> Dick Wiegand wrote:
>> RW wrote:
>>
>>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>>> is new to me. Does it help?
>>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
>> What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or
>> "already brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry,
>> specifically osmosis....
>>
>> If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific
>> gravity of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause
>> your brine to migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine.
>> The greater the difference between the specific gravity, the faster
>> this will take place.
>>
>> Dick
>
> Yo Dick, thanks for condescending to speak with us. Now, because the cells
> have already accepted a salt solution into them, and are already fuller than
> natural, won't any brines done after the factory brine take much longer than
> with a natural (unbrined) turkey? And wont it not be as complete? And what
> if I dont want to make my turkey too salty? Tell me a simple kitchen lab way
> to figure out the concentrations that the bird has, and what percentage
> greater than that I should make my brine for optimal osmosis to occur? How
> long should I then brine an already brined 14lb. bird, and how much will
> temperature effec the speed of this?
>
> And if my mind is so thick, why doesnt it leak out because of osmosititis?
> I dontgettit.
>
Good 'un, Du.
;-)

BOB
I guess all of us "experts" trying it doesn't count for anything, either?

Dan:

A state of equilibrium will happen at some point - yes, water will come out of the
bird, but something (i.e.saltier brine) will have to replace it -- you can't fool
mother nature.

It will never be a total exchange. For example, if the bird has a 5% salt
solution, and the brine a 10% solution, at some point, given enough time, a 7.5%
solution will be reached overall, for the free water, i.e. intra-cellular (between
cells). Inter-celluar moisture will do an exchange, but at a much slower rate, as
the brine has to go thru the cell wall -- I believe -

I'm not a biology major, but the bottom line is that you can infuse flavors into
an already brined turkey as long as there is a difference in the specific
gravities are different, as they will try and reach equilibrium.

Dick

Dan Kaiser wrote:

> I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water from and
> area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute conentration. So
> if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate that
> water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone 'splain it
> to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.
>
> Thanks.

--
Wiegand Assoc. Inc.
2820 S.E. 39th Loop, Unit "G"
Hillsboro OR 97123-8590
Ph: (503) 693-2592
Fax: (503) 693-2644

Dan:

A state of equilibrium will happen at some point - yes, water will come out of the
bird, but something (i.e.saltier brine) will have to replace it -- you can't fool
mother nature.

It will never be a total exchange. For example, if the bird has a 5% salt
solution, and the brine a 10% solution, at some point, given enough time, a 7.5%
solution will be reached overall, for the free water, i.e. intra-cellular (between
cells). Inter-celluar moisture will do an exchange, but at a much slower rate, as
the brine has to go thru the cell wall -- I believe -

I'm not a biology major, but the bottom line is that you can infuse flavors into
an already brined turkey as long as there is a difference in the specific
gravities are different, as they will try and reach equilibrium.

Dick

Dan Kaiser wrote:

> I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water from and
> area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute conentration. So
> if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate that
> water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone 'splain it
> to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.
>
> Thanks.

--
Wiegand Assoc. Inc.
2820 S.E. 39th Loop, Unit "G"
Hillsboro OR 97123-8590
Ph: (503) 693-2592
Fax: (503) 693-2644

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 05:40:05 GMT, "kilikini"
> wrote:

>
>"RW" > wrote in message ...
>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
>new
>> to me. Does it help?
>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
>>
>
>Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
>brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
>blah, then you know it's already brined.
>
>kili
>
Not in my world, kili. Safeways tried a few years ago and died with
them.

Harry

The Brined & Smoked Turkey is the best I ever had. I placed my
turkey in a turkey roasting bag and into a tall soup pot,
if you do not use all the water called for reduce the salt.
Marinate turkey in brine for at least 12 hours is best and
lay the smoke to it during cooking.

>
>
>GRILLING
>
>***** THE PERFECT THANKSGIVING TURKEY: BRINED AND HICKORY SMOKED
> Serves 12 to 14
> Advanced preparation: 16 hours for brining the turkey.
> Let's face it, a lot of bad turkey gets served every Thanksgiving.
>The problem has less to do with human error than with avian anatomy. The
>reason is that the delicate white meat of the turkey breast cooks faster
>than the dark, rich meat of the legs and thighs. So if you cook a turkey to
>a safe temperature (180 degrees), the breast is almost guaranteed to dry
>out. There is a way around this problem, however: brine the bird and roast
>it on the grill. A barbecued turkey has at least four compelling
>advantages:
>the low slow heat cooks the bird through without drying it out; it offers
>the haunting flavor of wood smoke; it takes the fuss and mess outside
>(liberating your oven for stuffing, roasted chestnuts, and other essential
>side dishes); and most importantly, it gives you an excuse to spend the
>afternoon outdoors, beer in hand, bonding with your barbecue buddies. As
>for
>brining, this means nothing more than marinating the bird overnight in salt
>water. By the mystical process of osmosis, the brine moisturizes the meat,
>adding succulence as well as flavor. For a New England touch-and northern
>earthy sweetness-I like to add a fillip of Vermont maple syrup.
> Tip: The key to brining is not to overdo it. Too much salt or
>excessive soaking will give the turkey the unnatural texture and flavor of
>commercial lunchmeats. You'll need a big pot for brining-I use a stockpot.
>In a pinch, you could brine the turkey in a clean plastic garbage bag. Note
>the use of a water filled zip top bag to keep the bird completely
>submerged.
>
> INGREDIENTS
> 1 12 pound turkey
> For the brine:
> 1-1/4 cups salt
> 1 quart hot water
> 4 quarts cold water
> 1 cup maple syrup
> 1 medium onion, thinly sliced
> 4 cloves garlic, peeled and crushed with the side of a cleaver 10
> peppercorns 5 bay leaves 4 strips lemon zest 2 cloves
> For basting:
> 4 to 6 tablespoons melted salted butter


>DIRECTIONS
>The night before, unwrap the turkey, remove the giblets from the
>main and front cavity, and wash the bird inside and out.
>Make the brine. Place the salt and 1 quart hot water in a large
>deep pot and whisk until salt crystals are dissolved. Whisk in the cold
water
>and maple syrup and add the onion, garlic, peppercorns, bay leaves, lemon
zest,
>and cloves. The mixture should be no warmer than room temperatu if it's
>hot or warm, let cool. Add the turkey. Place a large zip top bag filled
>with cold water on top to keep the bird submerged. Place the turkey in the
>refrigerator and let marinate overnight.
>
>
>
> 5 ways to cook a turkey: Grilling
>Day two of "5 Ways to Cook a Turkey", has Cooking Teacher of the Year,
>Steven Raichlen showing "Today's" Al Roker how to cook a moist and tasty
>turkey on the grill.
>
> Set up your grill for indirect grilling and preheat to medium. If
>using a charcoal grill, place a large drip pan in center and toss the wood
>chips on the coals. If using a gas grill, place the wood chips in the
>smoker
>box or in a smoker pouch and preheat on high until you see smoke, then
>reduce the heat to medium. If using a smoker, light and set it up according
>to the manufacturers instructions and preheat to 275 degrees.
> Place the turkey on the grate over the drip pan away from the fire.
>Brush with melted butter. Indirect grill until cooked, 2-1/2 to 3 hours.
>(Use an instant read thermometer to test for doneness-the turkey is ready
>when the thigh meat is 180 degrees.) If using a charcoal grill, replenish
>the coals and wood chips every hour. Baste the turkey with melted butter
>every hour. If the skin starts to brown too much, tent the bird with foil.
>On a kettle grill, you'll probably need to tent the sides closest to the
>piles of coals. If using a smoker, you'll need to cook the bird about 3-1/2
>to 4 hours.
> Transfer the turkey to a cutting board and let rest for 10 to 15
>minutes before carving. Serve with the following gravy.


"RW" > wrote in message ...
> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
new
> to me. Does it help?
> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
>

Go killfile youself!

> wrote in message
...
> "Kent" > wrote:
>>
> When are ya gonna stop top posting, moron?
>
> --
> Nick, Cogito, ergo armatum sum
> Happy Birthday to the United States Marine Corps since 10 November 1775!
>
> How to use FOIA to get Military Records at http://www.stolenvalor.com/

Nathan Alton's brine is too low in salt concentration to qualify as a brine.
At 1 oz of kosher salt/quart+ of liquid or .5 oz table salt per quart that
just won't make it as a brine. It might flavor, but brine and preserve, no
way.
Remember, you body is .9%Nacl by weight. 1oz of kosher/quart of aqueous
liquid only = 2.25% salt/qt by weight. That's not enough to do what brine
does primarily, to preserve.
It's like swimming in fresh water.
Kent

"Nathan Lau" > wrote in message
om...
> kilikini wrote:
>
>> "RW" > wrote in message ...
>>
>>>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
>> new
>>>to me. Does it help?
>>>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>
>> Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need for
>> brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
>> blah, then you know it's already brined.
>
> Brining helps immensely with adding flavors and keeping the bird moist.
>
> Your run-of-the-mill frozen turkeys usually come "enhanced" (injected)
> with a salt solution. They won't take any more flavors from a brine. Look
> for fresh turkeys that haven't been enhanced.
>
> In addition to the aforementioned Hound's and TFM's brines, I have had
> lots of success with Alton Brown's recipe:
>
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_8389,00.html
>
> --
> Aloha,
>
> Nathan Lau
> San Jose, CA
>
> #include <std.disclaimer>

A very good point Dick. However remember the human has .9% salt by weight.
The turkey is very near that. Brining with 1oz by vol. NaCl/qt water = 4.45%
by weight or about 5X iso- osmolarity. That's about what the brining ratio
should be. 2oz salt/quart = 8.9% by weight, or almost 10X the normal
osmolarity. The former is about right, tastewise, and the latter borders on
being too salty.
A great Thanksgiving to you and all.
Kent

"Dick Wiegand" > wrote in message
...
> Dan:
>
> A state of equilibrium will happen at some point - yes, water will come
> out of the
> bird, but something (i.e.saltier brine) will have to replace it -- you
> can't fool
> mother nature.
>
> It will never be a total exchange. For example, if the bird has a 5% salt
> solution, and the brine a 10% solution, at some point, given enough time,
> a 7.5%
> solution will be reached overall, for the free water, i.e. intra-cellular
> (between
> cells). Inter-celluar moisture will do an exchange, but at a much slower
> rate, as
> the brine has to go thru the cell wall -- I believe -
>
> I'm not a biology major, but the bottom line is that you can infuse
> flavors into
> an already brined turkey as long as there is a difference in the specific
> gravities are different, as they will try and reach equilibrium.
>
> Dick
>
> Dan Kaiser wrote:
>
>> I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water from
>> and
>> area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute
>> conentration. So
>> if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate
>> that
>> water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone
>> 'splain it
>> to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> --
> Wiegand Assoc. Inc.
> 2820 S.E. 39th Loop, Unit "G"
> Hillsboro OR 97123-8590
> Ph: (503) 693-2592
> Fax: (503) 693-2644
>
>
>

"Duwop" > wrote in message
...
> Dick Wiegand wrote:
>> RW wrote:
>>
>>> I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie
>>> is new to me. Does it help?
>>> Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
>> What you "experts" don't seem to about brining a "water added" or
>> "already brined" turkey is a basic understanding of chemistry,
>> specifically osmosis....
>>
>> If the brine you make has a higher specific gravity than the specific
>> gravity of the "water" or "brine" already injected osmosis will cause
>> your brine to migrate into the turkey, replacing the "factory" brine.
>> The greater the difference between the specific gravity, the faster
>> this will take place.
>>
>> Dick
>
> Yo Dick, thanks for condescending to speak with us. Now, because the cells
> have already accepted a salt solution into them, and are already fuller
> than
> natural, won't any brines done after the factory brine take much longer
> than
> with a natural (unbrined) turkey?
The amount of brining or salt added above iso-osmolarity in a "water added"
turkey is low
to the point where the brining recipe and it's effect is altered hardly any,
if at all.
>And wont it not be as complete? And what
> if I dont want to make my turkey too salty? Tell me a simple kitchen lab
> way
> to figure out the concentrations that the bird has, and what percentage
> greater than that I should make my brine for optimal osmosis to occur?
NaCl has a specific gravity of 1.65. 1 oz by vol of NaCl translates to
44.4865 gms nacl/liter
which = 4.45% by weight NaCl, about 5X the normal human and turkey
concentraton
of salt. This is about right for brine.

4.45%


How long should I then brine an already brined 14lb. bird, and how much
will
> temperature effec the speed of this?
The same whether "water added" or not.
>
> And if my mind is so thick
It was born that way
, why doesnt it leak out because of osmosititis?
> I dontgettit.
You won't, without a different set of genes, and repeating the childhood
growth and maturational phase of life
with a better surrounding.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>

Kent wrote:
>> And if my mind is so thick
> It was born that way
> , why doesnt it leak out because of osmosititis?
>> I dontgettit.
> You won't, without a different set of genes, and repeating the
> childhood growth and maturational phase of life
> with a better surrounding.

Damnit, you ended your run of complete and utter stupidity, that's actually
a bit clever. Congratulations.



--

Kent wrote:

> Nathan Alton's brine is too low in salt concentration to qualify as a brine.
> At 1 oz of kosher salt/quart+ of liquid or .5 oz table salt per quart that
> just won't make it as a brine. It might flavor, but brine and preserve, no
> way.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the use of brine as a preservative.
All appear to be discussing it as a way of flavoring and enhancing the
moisture content of the meat.

> Remember, you body is .9%Nacl by weight. 1oz of kosher/quart of aqueous
> liquid only = 2.25% salt/qt by weight.

What does "2.25% salt/qt by weight" mean? You have expressed the
concentration of salt in terms of volume (qt), not weight.

> That's not enough to do what brine
> does primarily, to preserve.

You appear to be the only one attempting to use brine as a preservative.

> It's like swimming in fresh water.

I see you haven't attempted to dring Alton's brine. It is far from being
"fresh water".

Matthew

Kent wrote:

> A very good point Dick. However remember the human has .9% salt by weight.
> The turkey is very near that. Brining with 1oz by vol. NaCl/qt water = 4.45%
> by weight or about 5X iso- osmolarity. That's about what the brining ratio
> should be.

You are arguing with yourself. You have previously, and very recently said:

"... Alton's brine is too low in salt concentration to qualify as a
brine. At 1 oz of kosher salt/quart+ of liquid or .5 oz table salt per
quart that just won't make it as a brine".

Matthew

"Nathan Lau" > wrote in message
om...
> kilikini wrote:
>
> > "RW" > wrote in message ...
> >
> >>I smoke a turkey for Thanksgiving every year. But this brine thingie is
> > new
> >>to me. Does it help?
> >>Does anybody have a good recipe for it?
> >
> > Wayne, aloha, it's kili. Most turkeys are already brined, so no need
for
> > brine. Check the turkey; most packaged ones will say contains blah blah
> > blah, then you know it's already brined.
>
> Brining helps immensely with adding flavors and keeping the bird moist.
>
> Your run-of-the-mill frozen turkeys usually come "enhanced" (injected)
> with a salt solution. They won't take any more flavors from a brine.

IMHO, I disagree, I soak in TFM Brine for 3 days and get loads of added
flavor.
--
Piedmont
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw


> Look for fresh turkeys that haven't been enhanced.
>
> In addition to the aforementioned Hound's and TFM's brines, I have had
> lots of success with Alton Brown's recipe:
>
>
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_8389,00.html
>
> --
> Aloha,
>
> Nathan Lau
> San Jose, CA
>
> #include <std.disclaimer>

Piedmont wrote:
> IMHO, I disagree, I soak in TFM Brine for 3 days and get loads of
added
> flavor.

Isn't that somewhat uncomfortable?




Brian

"Default User" > wrote:
> Piedmont wrote:
> > IMHO, I disagree, I soak in TFM Brine for 3 days and get loads of added
> > flavor.
>
> Isn't that somewhat uncomfortable?

Only if the fish (or crabs) are biting. LMAO

--
Nick, Cogito, ergo armatum sum
Happy Armistice and Veteran's Day. You are not forgotten. Thanks.

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops!

what the hell did he just say?
"Kent" > wrote in message
news:fnDkd.74829$HA.7641@attbi_s01...
> A very good point Dick. However remember the human has .9% salt by weight.
> The turkey is very near that. Brining with 1oz by vol. NaCl/qt water =
4.45%
> by weight or about 5X iso- osmolarity. That's about what the brining
ratio
> should be. 2oz salt/quart = 8.9% by weight, or almost 10X the normal
> osmolarity. The former is about right, tastewise, and the latter borders
on
> being too salty.
> A great Thanksgiving to you and all.
> Kent
>
> "Dick Wiegand" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dan:
> >
> > A state of equilibrium will happen at some point - yes, water will come
> > out of the
> > bird, but something (i.e.saltier brine) will have to replace it -- you
> > can't fool
> > mother nature.
> >
> > It will never be a total exchange. For example, if the bird has a 5%
salt
> > solution, and the brine a 10% solution, at some point, given enough
time,
> > a 7.5%
> > solution will be reached overall, for the free water, i.e.
intra-cellular
> > (between
> > cells). Inter-celluar moisture will do an exchange, but at a much
slower
> > rate, as
> > the brine has to go thru the cell wall -- I believe -
> >
> > I'm not a biology major, but the bottom line is that you can infuse
> > flavors into
> > an already brined turkey as long as there is a difference in the
specific
> > gravities are different, as they will try and reach equilibrium.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > Dan Kaiser wrote:
> >
> >> I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water
from
> >> and
> >> area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute
> >> conentration. So
> >> if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate
> >> that
> >> water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone
> >> 'splain it
> >> to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Wiegand Assoc. Inc.
> > 2820 S.E. 39th Loop, Unit "G"
> > Hillsboro OR 97123-8590
> > Ph: (503) 693-2592
> > Fax: (503) 693-2644
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Dan Kaiser wrote:

>I never understood this. I thought osmosis was the movement of water from and
>area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute conentration. So
>if you put a saltier solution outside the bird, won't osmosis dictate that
>water will come out of the bird to dilute the salt solution? Someone 'splain it
>to me like I'm an idiot, LOL.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
Dan,
Osmosis is the movement of the solvent (water) across a semi-permeable
membrane. The movement of the solute (salt, et. al.) across the
membrane is called diffusion. Diffusion is actually where the magic
happens. As more salt moves into the inter and intra cellular spaces,
it denatures the protein. When the protein molecules uncoil, it
provides more opportunities for water molecules to become trapped within
the protein structure....thus, a jucier bird, pork shoulder....whatever.
Hope this helps.
BTW...I'm a new poster so will no doubt my knowledge will be
questioned. I'm not a food scientist but I did retire from the Dialysis
industry where everything that happens happens through osmosis and
confusion..ay...I mean diffusion!
Cooks Illustrated has an excellent article on the subject in you can
find it.
Good luck.
Bubba

Thanks Bubba. That was very illuminating!

Thanks Bubba. That was very illuminating!