Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 25-03-2006, 01:22 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

I want to know what institutes to go to and/or what courses are there
in Australia if I want to pursue a career to become a baker (more
specifically making cakes)?

Would TAFE be the BEST option?
Are there any other institutes?

Would doing a hospitality degree be good to become a baker?
If so which hospitality degrees in which univerisities would you
recommend?

Lastly, if I want to become a cake baker for top class hotels,
how should I go about achieving my goal?


I appreciate any advice as I desperately need information

regards,
Anthony Mak


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Old 25-03-2006, 05:02 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

anthony mak wrote:

want to know what institutes to go to and/or what courses are there
in Australia if I want to pursue a career to become a baker (more
specifically making cakes)?

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent residence you can
apply for apprenticeship in either baking or pastry cooking.

Would TAFE be the BEST option?
Are there any other institutes?


Well those schools offer comprehensive course that is not only focused
on baking and cooking but other related subjects as well including
finance and management areas.
IF you want you can take baking and pastry cooking and it will lead you
to a certificate IV or even in A diploma.

You can study in Regency in Adelaide or in William Angliss in Melbourne

Would doing a hospitality degree be good to become a baker?


A hospitality degree is broad and cover many areas you or may not
become a baker , a cook, etc...but just doing other hospitality related
stuff.
You can be just an events coordinator or tourism specialist and that
has nothing to do with cookery.

If so which hospitality degrees in which universities would you
recommend?


Its not wise to recommend, you better visit the schools in your area
and make inquiries
Think about it if its appropriate for your needs.

Lastly, if I want to become a cake baker for top class hotels,
how should I go about achieving my goal?


In order to become a baker, it takes training and experience and you
need to devote enough time for such trade to be considered qualified. I
Australia it needs an average of 4 years to be a qualified baker or
pastry cook.

Don't forget cake baking in Australia is more of European style
patterned from the UK system.
BTW I am not impressed with Australian breads cakes and pastries, you
want to be good better study in Europe instead.
You can start your apprenticeship in Australia but after a few years go
to Europe for and work there so that you will improve dramatically your
capability.

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Old 25-03-2006, 11:59 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

Thanks for your detail advice, Chembake.

Besides "Regency in Adelaide or in William Angliss in Melbourne", are
there any similar places in Sydney? Do you know if Bakery Sugarcraft
and
Planetcake in Syd are any good?

So i understand now to be the best in bakery and patisserie on should
go to Europe eventually. I know it depends also the type of bread or
cake, but would France be the best choice?

Anthony

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Old 26-03-2006, 01:12 PM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

A lot of job ads for pastry chef mentioned "requires 2nd year or final
year apprentice chef", is that mean after a person finishes their TAFE
studies, they have to be someone's apprentice before becoming a pastry
chef? If such is necessary, how many years does one have to be an
apprentice usually?

So the career path goes like:
N years in TAFE
X years as apprentice
Full Pastry Chef
?

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Old 26-03-2006, 01:55 PM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

In Australia, establishments hires apprentices which are called first,
second or third year apprentices. The fourth year is when you are
already a qualified pastry cook but not a pastry chef. But if you
attend also formal education in patisserie while you are still doing
your pastry cook apprentices you will end up in the end as a pastry
chef. That is likely at least after 5 years from the start of your
apprenticeship. It depends also upon your aptitude, if you are fast
learner you can be pastry chef in less time specially if you undergo
training from a well known pastry chef.
There is not that much in Australia what I call highly qualified
pastry chef. In fact most of the pastry chef that are really good are
educated in Europe and came in as immigrants.
A pastry chef is really capable if he has attained at least decade of
experience and most of that overseas.



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Old 27-03-2006, 01:05 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

Hi Chembake,

I am beginning to guess you must be a great chef(bakery or pastry) or
at least working in the industry or a business owner

So what you are saying is, for the case where the person takes formal
education and apprenticeship concurrently, say the formal education
finishes after 1-2 years, but the person remains apprentice status an
extra 2-3 years so that after s/he accumulate a total of around 5 years
of apprenticeship expereince, s/he can becomes a pastry chef?

In your opinion, is it better and more popular to do formal education
(like TAFE etc) and apprenticeship concurrently?

How about do formal education first, and then find work in a pastry as
an apprentice? If I do this, how long would the apprenticeship takes?
Just 2-3 years since I already got the education or the pastries will
still insist on 5 years? The only reason I am considering this path is
I might take a part-time job while doing formal education like going to
TAFE.

As always, thank you so much for teaching me so much about the
industry.

Anthony

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Old 27-03-2006, 03:09 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

So what you are saying is, for the case where the person takes formal
education and apprenticeship concurrently, say the formal education
finishes after 1-2 years, but the person remains apprentice status an
extra 2-3 years so that after s/he accumulate a total of around 5 years
of apprenticeship expereince, s/he can becomes a pastry chef?



From what I know about Australian baking and cookery training which is

patterned from the UK standard. An aspiring baker or chef can apply for
apprenticeship right after he or she finishes year 12. I know some
people there who started their training after year 10 only.
When I was there for some time I noticed that the to gain qualification
in your trade that you trained for takes 4 years.
You can either be a baker nor a pastry cook but not yet a master baker
or a pastry chef. The latter needs formal training from a recognized
institution.and after that should have some years of experience before
you can be considered fullyqualified to an advanced degree which I
recognized as person of good capability. that justify that 10 years is
the average time to be really good as a baker or a pastry chef , that
is basing from the time you started your apprenticeship.

n your opinion, is it better and more popular to do formal education
(like TAFE etc) and apprenticeship concurrently?


Its better to do both....I have seen in Willam Angliss apprentices who
at the same time trained in school for formal education.
The problem with apprenticeship you are limited only to the specific
line of the bakery or patisserie you are doing your training.,
therefore you have a narrow perspective of your trade.
In addition to that during apprenticeship you are only allowed to visit
the school at least a week per month and to talk with your teachers in
school.
I observed that even after the finished their apprenticeship and
judging their performances I still don;t find it satisfactory.
Therefore the combination of schooling and actual training is the best
option

How about do formal education first, and then find work in a pastry as
an apprentice? If I do this, how long would the apprenticeship takes?
Just 2-3 years since I already got the education or the pastries will
still insist on 5 years? The only reason I am considering this path is
I might take a part-time job while doing formal education like going to
TAFE.


You can do that but most Australian bakery and patisserie establishment
seldom accept an untrained apprentice for good quality work. Yes you
might have good schooling but you still lack skill to work in the fast
spaced conditions of the kitchen.
You might end up just a kitchen hand...instead even of a pastry cook.

Only the apprenticeship can give you the required skill and confidence
that some graduates of the patisserie education sometimes lack.
These establishment needs skilled people first than educated ones so
you can gain a better employment status then.

If you have no bakery or patisserie experience and would like to earn
as you learn then go the apprenticeship way then the academic training
later.
On the other hand if you already had sound baking knowledge then you
can go the schooling and there is no need for apprenticeship.

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Old 27-03-2006, 03:12 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

On the other hand if you already had sound baking knowledge then you
can go the schooling and there is no need for apprenticeship.


What I mean here is you already have enough experience and good
fundamentals then you don't need to go for apprenticeship but improve
your skill by doing formal academic training.
At least you already have some confidence to face your prospective
employer and convince him that you are a worthy employee.

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Old 27-03-2006, 08:15 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

Hi Chembake,

Have you heard of Sydney International College and do you know if they
are any good?
http://www.sic.nsw.edu.au/courses/fa...patisserie.htm

Actually so long I have been asking for someone who wants to study as
international student trying to become a pastry chef. TAFE has a
certificate level 3 course which is specialized for patisserie, but
they give preferences to apprentices, otherwise quite hard to get into.
But it would probably be hard for someone from oversea to get an
apprenticeship in Australia, since they would need to first enrol in
some education before they can get student VISA. I would suggest my
friend to try their chances to enrol those TAFE certificate 3 courses
that give preference to apprentice anyway, or, enrol in some vocational
cake making TAFE classes initially, or try Sydney International
College, and after the person arrived in Australia they can search for
an apprenticeship.

Could you give me some advice

Anthony

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Old 27-03-2006, 09:39 AM posted to rec.food.baking
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Default Studying bakery and cake making in Australia

In Melbourne they offer certificate 4 patisserie which is better than
certificate 3.



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