Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 02-01-2006, 10:43 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Paul Giverin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven
wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or
to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

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Old 02-01-2006, 11:12 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven
wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or
to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?


I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is especially
good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection on and see how
your oven functions. Since it sounds like true convection, you can probably
lower the temperature by 25F. For non-baked goods like casseroles, you can
probably skip pre-heating.


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-01-2006, 11:35 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?


I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection
on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like true
convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.


I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before it's
done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature hasn't made
a bit of difference.

--
Wayne Boatwright **
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 12:28 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
...
On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?


I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection
on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like true
convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.


I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before it's
done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature hasn't

made
a bit of difference.


Have you tried lowering the position of the pans in the oven? Also, some
ranges have two convection setting- roast and bake (and some also have
convection broil.) Roast often uses a combination of the top and bottom
elements and a high fan speed. Convection bake only uses the bottom element
and a reduced fan speed. This can be in combination with a dedicated
convection element or not, depending on if the oven is true convection or
just a fan assisted model. Excessive top browning generally suggests that
the food is too high in the oven and/or the broil element is used.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 12:37 AM posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.

Bonnie


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 01:07 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"bonniejean" wrote in message
...
Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.


The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things tend to
bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans during
baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce the
cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting develop
a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.

The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any preheating.
The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven. I
can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75 minutes
of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
temperature than in a standard oven.


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:14 AM posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

Vox Humana wrote:
"bonniejean" wrote in message
...

Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.



The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things tend to
bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans during
baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce the
cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting develop
a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.

The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any preheating.
The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven. I
can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75 minutes
of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
temperature than in a standard oven.


Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
and she still has her regular oven.
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 03:30 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"bonniejean" wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:
"bonniejean" wrote in message
...

Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned

one.


The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things

tend to
bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans

during
baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce

the
cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting

develop
a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.

The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any

preheating.
The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven.

I
can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75

minutes
of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
temperature than in a standard oven.


Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
and she still has her regular oven.


The one I have is an over-the-range model. While it is small, it is
adequate for most of my needs since there are only two of us. I know that
Kitchen-Aid and GE both have wall ovens that have a second, smaller
convection-microwave oven. So far I don't know of a full-sized unit. I
think it is something that people don't quite "get" yet, so there may be a
time before demand builds enough to make a large version.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 04:26 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
...
On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that
a fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are
fan ovens better for some types of baking?

I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the
convection on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like
true convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.


I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before
it's done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature
hasn't made a bit of difference.


Have you tried lowering the position of the pans in the oven? Also,
some ranges have two convection setting- roast and bake (and some also
have convection broil.) Roast often uses a combination of the top and
bottom elements and a high fan speed. Convection bake only uses the
bottom element and a reduced fan speed. This can be in combination with
a dedicated convection element or not, depending on if the oven is true
convection or just a fan assisted model. Excessive top browning
generally suggests that the food is too high in the oven and/or the
broil element is used.


Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating element
tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the oven. It
also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well as convection
broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using and they were
correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third of the oven,
and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I don't is with
cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate racks. I
attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes and pies using
conventional heat without convection. It's not worth ruining anything
else.

--
Wayne Boatwright **
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 05:20 AM posted to rec.food.baking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


Paul Giverin wrote:

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk


For things like roasts or yeast raised breads a convection oven is
fine, but I think they're terrible for cakes. They cook too fast and
the cake doesn't have a chance to rise properly before the crust
browns. Lowering the temperature 50 degrees doesn't work either.



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 11:52 AM posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

Vox Humana wrote:
"bonniejean" wrote in message
...

Vox Humana wrote:

"bonniejean" wrote in message
...


Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned


one.


The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things


tend to

bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans


during

baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce


the

cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting


develop

a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.

The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any


preheating.

The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven.


I

can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75


minutes

of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
temperature than in a standard oven.



Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
and she still has her regular oven.



The one I have is an over-the-range model. While it is small, it is
adequate for most of my needs since there are only two of us. I know that
Kitchen-Aid and GE both have wall ovens that have a second, smaller
convection-microwave oven. So far I don't know of a full-sized unit. I
think it is something that people don't quite "get" yet, so there may be a
time before demand builds enough to make a large version.


Thanks for the info.
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2006, 03:48 PM posted to rec.food.baking
graham
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
...
On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?

Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating
element
tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the oven. It
also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well as
convection
broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using and they were
correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third of the oven,
and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I don't is with
cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate racks. I
attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes and pies using
conventional heat without convection. It's not worth ruining anything
else.

Wayne,
I have a Bosch (the first 30" model made for the NAm market) and the only
reliable setting appears to be convection bake. I asked a supplier of
high-end appliances about this the other week and he pointed out that the
Bosch thermostat was too close to the broiling elements and this is what
causes problems in the convection roast mode where I get wild fluctuations
in temperature. Perhaps the thermostat placement is the problem with these
ovens.
Graham


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Old 03-01-2006, 08:38 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 07:48:32a, graham wrote in rec.food.baking:


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
...
On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?

Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating
element tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the
oven. It also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well
as
convection broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using
and
they were correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third
of the oven, and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I
don't is with cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate
racks. I attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes
and pies using conventional heat without convection. It's not worth
ruining anything else.

Wayne,
I have a Bosch (the first 30" model made for the NAm market) and the
only reliable setting appears to be convection bake. I asked a supplier
of high-end appliances about this the other week and he pointed out that
the Bosch thermostat was too close to the broiling elements and this is
what causes problems in the convection roast mode where I get wild
fluctuations in temperature. Perhaps the thermostat placement is the
problem with these ovens.
Graham


I never thought of that. Certainly a possiblity. I'll have to take a
close look at my oven.

Thanks, Graham

--
Wayne Boatwright **
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:43 AM posted to rec.food.baking
King's Crown
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had dodgy
thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything very
difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven wasn't
best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or to use
the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk


I just got a convection oven yesterday, so my experince is limited. I have
baked Chocolate Chip cookies and this morning I baked biscuits and having
the fan on has a wonderful affect on keeping the temperature even through
out the oven. I did 3 sheets of cookies at one time and 2 sheets of
biscuits. Watching them all brown at the same time I find facinating. Yes,
I've been baking with my nose pushed up against the glass door. I'm having
fun with my new toy.

Lynne


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2006, 05:48 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 09:43:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it King's
Crown?


"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk


I just got a convection oven yesterday, so my experince is limited. I
have baked Chocolate Chip cookies and this morning I baked biscuits and
having the fan on has a wonderful affect on keeping the temperature even
through out the oven. I did 3 sheets of cookies at one time and 2
sheets of biscuits. Watching them all brown at the same time I find
facinating. Yes, I've been baking with my nose pushed up against the
glass door. I'm having fun with my new toy.


I'd be interested in knowing how your pies and cakes turn out. I've had
nothing but problems with those using convection.

--
Wayne Boatwright **
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.


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