Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Paul Giverin
 
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Default Fan or conventional oven?

I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
very difficult.

I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven
wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or
to use the "circotherm" fan function.

The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
ovens better for some types of baking?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
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Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
...
> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
> dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
> very difficult.
>
> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
> the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven
> wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or
> to use the "circotherm" fan function.
>
> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
> ovens better for some types of baking?


I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is especially
good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection on and see how
your oven functions. Since it sounds like true convection, you can probably
lower the temperature by 25F. For non-baked goods like casseroles, you can
probably skip pre-heating.


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?

>
> "Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
>> dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
>> very difficult.
>>
>> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
>> particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
>> fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
>> bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.
>>
>> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
>> ovens better for some types of baking?

>
> I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
> especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection
> on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like true
> convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
> non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.


I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before it's
done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature hasn't made
a bit of difference.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
> Humana?
>
> >
> > "Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
> >> dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
> >> very difficult.
> >>
> >> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
> >> particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
> >> fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
> >> bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.
> >>
> >> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
> >> ovens better for some types of baking?

> >
> > I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
> > especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the convection
> > on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like true
> > convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
> > non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.

>
> I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
> anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before it's
> done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature hasn't

made
> a bit of difference.
>


Have you tried lowering the position of the pans in the oven? Also, some
ranges have two convection setting- roast and bake (and some also have
convection broil.) Roast often uses a combination of the top and bottom
elements and a high fan speed. Convection bake only uses the bottom element
and a reduced fan speed. This can be in combination with a dedicated
convection element or not, depending on if the oven is true convection or
just a fan assisted model. Excessive top browning generally suggests that
the food is too high in the oven and/or the broil element is used.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.

Bonnie


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"bonniejean" > wrote in message
...
> Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.


The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things tend to
bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans during
baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce the
cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting develop
a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.

The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any preheating.
The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven. I
can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75 minutes
of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
temperature than in a standard oven.


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
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Default Fan or conventional oven?

Vox Humana wrote:
> "bonniejean" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned one.

>
>
> The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things tend to
> bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans during
> baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
> ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce the
> cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
> also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting develop
> a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.
>
> The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
> microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
> able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any preheating.
> The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
> power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven. I
> can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
> minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75 minutes
> of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
> temperature than in a standard oven.
>
>

Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
and she still has her regular oven.
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"bonniejean" > wrote in message
...
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > "bonniejean" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned

one.
> >
> >
> > The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things

tend to
> > bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans

during
> > baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
> > ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce

the
> > cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
> > also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting

develop
> > a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.
> >
> > The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
> > microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
> > able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any

preheating.
> > The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
> > power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven.

I
> > can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
> > minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75

minutes
> > of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
> > temperature than in a standard oven.
> >
> >

> Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
> desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
> oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
> and she still has her regular oven.


The one I have is an over-the-range model. While it is small, it is
adequate for most of my needs since there are only two of us. I know that
Kitchen-Aid and GE both have wall ovens that have a second, smaller
convection-microwave oven. So far I don't know of a full-sized unit. I
think it is something that people don't quite "get" yet, so there may be a
time before demand builds enough to make a large version.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
Humana?

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 03:12:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
>> Humana?
>>
>> >
>> > "Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
>> >> dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
>> >> very difficult.
>> >>
>> >> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
>> >> particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that
>> >> a fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
>> >> bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.
>> >>
>> >> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are
>> >> fan ovens better for some types of baking?
>> >
>> > I use the convection setting for all my baking. I think it is
>> > especially good for bread and pizza. I would start with the
>> > convection on and see how your oven functions. Since it sounds like
>> > true convection, you can probably lower the temperature by 25F. For
>> > non-baked goods like casseroles, you can probably skip pre-heating.

>>
>> I love convection for roasting, but it's been a disaster for baking
>> anything other than cookies. Everything always burns on top before
>> it's done on the bottom and in the middle. Dropping the temperature
>> hasn't made a bit of difference.
>>

>
> Have you tried lowering the position of the pans in the oven? Also,
> some ranges have two convection setting- roast and bake (and some also
> have convection broil.) Roast often uses a combination of the top and
> bottom elements and a high fan speed. Convection bake only uses the
> bottom element and a reduced fan speed. This can be in combination with
> a dedicated convection element or not, depending on if the oven is true
> convection or just a fan assisted model. Excessive top browning
> generally suggests that the food is too high in the oven and/or the
> broil element is used.


Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating element
tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the oven. It
also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well as convection
broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using and they were
correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third of the oven,
and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I don't is with
cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate racks. I
attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes and pies using
conventional heat without convection. It's not worth ruining anything
else.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


Paul Giverin wrote:

> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
> ovens better for some types of baking?
>
> --
> Paul Giverin
>
> British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk


For things like roasts or yeast raised breads a convection oven is
fine, but I think they're terrible for cakes. They cook too fast and
the cake doesn't have a chance to rise properly before the crust
browns. Lowering the temperature 50 degrees doesn't work either.



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
bonniejean
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

Vox Humana wrote:
> "bonniejean" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Vox Humana wrote:
>>
>>>"bonniejean" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned

>
> one.
>
>>>
>>>The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things

>
> tend to
>
>>>bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans

>
> during
>
>>>baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once. Convection
>>>ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce

>
> the
>
>>>cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven which
>>>also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting

>
> develop
>
>>>a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.
>>>
>>>The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
>>>microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I was
>>>able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any

>
> preheating.
>
>>>The convection component browned the surface and the added 30% microwave
>>>power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven.

>
> I
>
>>>can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
>>>minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75

>
> minutes
>
>>>of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
>>>temperature than in a standard oven.
>>>
>>>

>>
>>Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
>>desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
>>oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
>>and she still has her regular oven.

>
>
> The one I have is an over-the-range model. While it is small, it is
> adequate for most of my needs since there are only two of us. I know that
> Kitchen-Aid and GE both have wall ovens that have a second, smaller
> convection-microwave oven. So far I don't know of a full-sized unit. I
> think it is something that people don't quite "get" yet, so there may be a
> time before demand builds enough to make a large version.
>
>

Thanks for the info.
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
graham
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
> Humana?
>>

> Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating
> element
> tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the oven. It
> also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well as
> convection
> broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using and they were
> correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third of the oven,
> and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I don't is with
> cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate racks. I
> attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes and pies using
> conventional heat without convection. It's not worth ruining anything
> else.
>

Wayne,
I have a Bosch (the first 30" model made for the NAm market) and the only
reliable setting appears to be convection bake. I asked a supplier of
high-end appliances about this the other week and he pointed out that the
Bosch thermostat was too close to the broiling elements and this is what
causes problems in the convection roast mode where I get wild fluctuations
in temperature. Perhaps the thermostat placement is the problem with these
ovens.
Graham


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 07:48:32a, graham wrote in rec.food.baking:

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 04:28:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox
>> Humana?
>>>

>> Thanks for your suggestions, Vox. My range has a dedicated heating
>> element tucked inside the convection fan compartment in the rear of the
>> oven. It also has separate convection roast and bake settings, as well
>> as
>> convection broil. I've thoroughly checked the settings I was using
>> and
>> they were correct. I have lowered the rack position to the lower third
>> of the oven, and still get overbrowning. As I said, the only time I
>> don't is with cookies, where I can bake 3 pans at a time on 3 separate
>> racks. I attribute that to the short baking time. I now bake cakes
>> and pies using conventional heat without convection. It's not worth
>> ruining anything else.
>>

> Wayne,
> I have a Bosch (the first 30" model made for the NAm market) and the
> only reliable setting appears to be convection bake. I asked a supplier
> of high-end appliances about this the other week and he pointed out that
> the Bosch thermostat was too close to the broiling elements and this is
> what causes problems in the convection roast mode where I get wild
> fluctuations in temperature. Perhaps the thermostat placement is the
> problem with these ovens.
> Graham


I never thought of that. Certainly a possiblity. I'll have to take a
close look at my oven.

Thanks, Graham

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
King's Crown
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
...
> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had dodgy
> thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything very
> difficult.
>
> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions, particularly
> the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a fan oven wasn't
> best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and bottom heat or to use
> the "circotherm" fan function.
>
> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
> ovens better for some types of baking?
>
> --
> Paul Giverin
>
> British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk


I just got a convection oven yesterday, so my experince is limited. I have
baked Chocolate Chip cookies and this morning I baked biscuits and having
the fan on has a wonderful affect on keeping the temperature even through
out the oven. I did 3 sheets of cookies at one time and 2 sheets of
biscuits. Watching them all brown at the same time I find facinating. Yes,
I've been baking with my nose pushed up against the glass door. I'm having
fun with my new toy.

Lynne


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 09:43:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it King's
Crown?

>
> "Paul Giverin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've recently bought a new oven to replace my ageing oven which had
>> dodgy thermostat and was running so hot that it made baking anything
>> very difficult.
>>
>> I made sure that my new oven had a wide range of functions,
>> particularly the ability to turn the fan off because I had read that a
>> fan oven wasn't best for baking. So now I can chose to use top and
>> bottom heat or to use the "circotherm" fan function.
>>
>> The question is, is it really better to bake without the fan or are fan
>> ovens better for some types of baking?
>>
>> --
>> Paul Giverin
>>
>> British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

>
> I just got a convection oven yesterday, so my experince is limited. I
> have baked Chocolate Chip cookies and this morning I baked biscuits and
> having the fan on has a wonderful affect on keeping the temperature even
> through out the oven. I did 3 sheets of cookies at one time and 2
> sheets of biscuits. Watching them all brown at the same time I find
> facinating. Yes, I've been baking with my nose pushed up against the
> glass door. I'm having fun with my new toy.


I'd be interested in knowing how your pies and cakes turn out. I've had
nothing but problems with those using convection.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
D.Currie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fan or conventional oven?


"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "bonniejean" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Vox Humana wrote:
>> > "bonniejean" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> >>Why do people like and even prefer convection ovens? I've never owned

> one.
>> >
>> >
>> > The temperature is more even throughout the oven. Therefore, things

> tend to
>> > bake and brown more evenly. You don't usually have to rotate pans

> during
>> > baking and you can often bake four trays of cookies at once.
>> > Convection
>> > ovens can save energy because you can reduce the temperature and reduce

> the
>> > cooking time. For some items, you don't need to pre-heat the oven
>> > which
>> > also saves time and energy. Meats roasted on the convection setting

> develop
>> > a nice crust while remaining moist and juicy in about 30% less time.
>> >
>> > The next step up is to combine convection with microwaves. I have a
>> > microwave convection oven that I use for most of my baking needs. I
>> > was
>> > able to roast a small pork loin in 35 minutes today without any

> preheating.
>> > The convection component browned the surface and the added 30%
>> > microwave
>> > power speeded the cooking and eliminated the need to pre-heat the oven.

> I
>> > can take a raw, frozen pie and bake it, without pre-heating in about 45
>> > minutes. Quick breads that normally requires pre-heating and 60-75

> minutes
>> > of baking are done in 35-40 minutes without pre-heating at a lower
>> > temperature than in a standard oven.
>> >
>> >

>> Wow, sounds like it is both efficient and that the result is very
>> desirable. Do they come full size with a stove on top like a regular
>> oven? Can they be gas or electric? My Aunt has one but it is on the wall
>> and she still has her regular oven.

>
> The one I have is an over-the-range model. While it is small, it is
> adequate for most of my needs since there are only two of us. I know that
> Kitchen-Aid and GE both have wall ovens that have a second, smaller
> convection-microwave oven. So far I don't know of a full-sized unit. I
> think it is something that people don't quite "get" yet, so there may be a
> time before demand builds enough to make a large version.
>
>


I used to have a double-oven wall unit that had a full-size
convection/microwave on top and a regular full-size oven below. I really
miss those ovens....

Donna


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