Lots of background
I've just become part of a group that will bake bread for communion at
the church I'm attending.

Last night we had an information and instruction session. We were in
two groups (two people each group, basically). The woman I was paired
with scooped the measure of ww flour from and inside the bag and leveled
it by pressing it against the inside of the bag. Quel horror. Because
I'm an outsider in the group, I managed to keep my mouth shut about the
fact that she was packing it in. I scooped the white flour in a similar
fashion but leveled it with a straightedge. In the final prep, our
dough was drier than the batch assembled by the other pair.

The outcome: The other pair's dough was moist and smooth; ours seemed
dry but we didn't add any more liquid anything to compensate or make
ours look more like theirs. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.

As we tested the finished product and evaluated the whole thing as a
group exercise, I suggested that measuring by weight would be more
accurate and should produce a more consistent product and I volunteered
to pre-measure the dry ingredients and make packages for an individual's
use; the liquids would need to be measured and added by each baker.

In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.

My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
Scoop and level? Spoon and level?

Here's a link to the recipe.
http://www.luthersem.edu/resources/c...ead_recipe.asp

Comments?
FWIW, I've got a call in to the sem's dining services honcho to ask a
couple other questions about the recipe's prep, too.
Thanks.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
"Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006

IICC, with ww flour you stir it first, then lightly sppon it and level
it with a knife. (I had to laugh at your horror in someome scooping it
directly from the bag - I would have felt the same way).

But if you have a scale, the weight would be measured however you do
it.

And I have to say you are very diplomatic to do this - good
problem-solving!

Kris

P.S. - I notice this is an ELCA-related site - is that your
denomination? It's mine, and I might have even had a similar bread at
communion before - very delicious.



Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Lots of background
> I've just become part of a group that will bake bread for communion at
> the church I'm attending.
>
> Last night we had an information and instruction session. We were in
> two groups (two people each group, basically). The woman I was paired
> with scooped the measure of ww flour from and inside the bag and leveled
> it by pressing it against the inside of the bag. Quel horror. Because
> I'm an outsider in the group, I managed to keep my mouth shut about the
> fact that she was packing it in. I scooped the white flour in a similar
> fashion but leveled it with a straightedge. In the final prep, our
> dough was drier than the batch assembled by the other pair.
>
> The outcome: The other pair's dough was moist and smooth; ours seemed
> dry but we didn't add any more liquid anything to compensate or make
> ours look more like theirs. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
>
> As we tested the finished product and evaluated the whole thing as a
> group exercise, I suggested that measuring by weight would be more
> accurate and should produce a more consistent product and I volunteered
> to pre-measure the dry ingredients and make packages for an individual's
> use; the liquids would need to be measured and added by each baker.
>
> In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
>
> My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>
> Here's a link to the recipe.
> http://www.luthersem.edu/resources/c...ead_recipe.asp
>
> Comments?
> FWIW, I've got a call in to the sem's dining services honcho to ask a
> couple other questions about the recipe's prep, too.
> Thanks.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> "Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
> http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
> http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Lots of background
> I've just become part of a group that will bake bread for communion at
> the church I'm attending.
>
> Last night we had an information and instruction session. We were in
> two groups (two people each group, basically). The woman I was paired
> with scooped the measure of ww flour from and inside the bag and leveled
> it by pressing it against the inside of the bag. Quel horror. Because
> I'm an outsider in the group, I managed to keep my mouth shut about the
> fact that she was packing it in. I scooped the white flour in a similar
> fashion but leveled it with a straightedge. In the final prep, our
> dough was drier than the batch assembled by the other pair.
>
> The outcome: The other pair's dough was moist and smooth; ours seemed
> dry but we didn't add any more liquid anything to compensate or make
> ours look more like theirs. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
>
> As we tested the finished product and evaluated the whole thing as a
> group exercise, I suggested that measuring by weight would be more
> accurate and should produce a more consistent product and I volunteered
> to pre-measure the dry ingredients and make packages for an individual's
> use; the liquids would need to be measured and added by each baker.
>
> In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
>
> My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>
> Here's a link to the recipe.
> http://www.luthersem.edu/resources/c...ead_recipe.asp
>
> Comments?
> FWIW, I've got a call in to the sem's dining services honcho to ask a
> couple other questions about the recipe's prep, too.
> Thanks.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> "Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
> http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
> http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006
Weighing it is the only way to be exact- measuring cups can differ-
professional bakers weigh everything

l, not -l wrote:
> On 25-Oct-2006, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> > need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
> >
> > My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> > for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> > Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>
> I just read the bag to determine weight per volume. Every bag of flour I
> have checked, whether semolina, whole wheat, white or gluten flour, all
> indicate the same thing; 1/4 cup of flour weighs 30 grams. From there, it's
> just math to determine the weight for any given quantity of flour needed.
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
Humidity or a different grind can affect measuring- have you actually
tested this theory? I would think a quarter cup of semolina would be
heavier than the same of white.

l, not -l wrote:
> On 25-Oct-2006, "Merryb" > wrote:
>
> > Humidity or a different grind can affect measuring- have you actually
> > tested this theory? I would think a quarter cup of semolina would be
> > heavier than the same of white.
>
> Test it how; pour 30 grams of flour in a measuring cup?
Yes- have you?
>
> Facts of which I am certain:
> - measuring by measuring cup results in great variability, for many reasons
> - every bag of flour I have looked at, regardless whether semolina, whole
> wheat, white or gluten flour, all indicate the same thing; 1/4 cup of flour
> weighs 30 grams
> - I get consistent results using flour of all variety utilizing 30 grams for
> every 1/4 cup a recipe calls for.
> - I do not have a lab environment, humidity is somewhat variable; however,
> all my flour, regardless of type, is stored in the freezer until needed;
> weighed cold from the freezer then brought to room temperature. The method
> I use to store and weigh reduces much of the variability due to humidity.
> - vendors claim and my results confirm to my satisfaction, 1/4 cup of flour
> should weigh 30 grams
>
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.

l, not -l wrote:
> On 25-Oct-2006, "Merryb" > wrote:
>
> > Humidity or a different grind can affect measuring- have you actually
> > tested this theory? I would think a quarter cup of semolina would be
> > heavier than the same of white.
>
> Test it how; pour 30 grams of flour in a measuring cup?
>
> Facts of which I am certain:
> - measuring by measuring cup results in great variability, for many reasons
> - every bag of flour I have looked at, regardless whether semolina, whole
> wheat, white or gluten flour, all indicate the same thing; 1/4 cup of flour
> weighs 30 grams
> - I get consistent results using flour of all variety utilizing 30 grams for
> every 1/4 cup a recipe calls for.
> - I do not have a lab environment, humidity is somewhat variable; however,
> all my flour, regardless of type, is stored in the freezer until needed;
> weighed cold from the freezer then brought to room temperature. The method
> I use to store and weigh reduces much of the variability due to humidity.
> - vendors claim and my results confirm to my satisfaction, 1/4 cup of flour
> should weigh 30 grams
>
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
Duh- sorry- Yes- have you tried pouring 30 grams into a measuring cup?

Melba's Jammin' wrote on 25 Oct 2006 in rec.food.baking

> My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>

My thoughts on this is "Last I looked at a bag of flour there was weight
info on it".

In article . com>,
"Merryb" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > Lots of background
> > I've just become part of a group that will bake bread for communion at
> > the church I'm attending.
(snippage)
> Weighing it is the only way to be exact- measuring cups can differ-
> professional bakers weigh everything

Understood. I spoke with the woman who actually makes it and she said
they measure by volume, not weight. I thought that was kind of
interesting.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
"Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006

In article >, "l, not -l" >
wrote:

> On 25-Oct-2006, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> > need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
> >
> > My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> > for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> > Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>
> I just read the bag to determine weight per volume. Every bag of flour I
> have checked, whether semolina, whole wheat, white or gluten flour, all
> indicate the same thing; 1/4 cup of flour weighs 30 grams. From there, it's
> just math to determine the weight for any given quantity of flour needed.

<Barb smacks forehead with palm of hand>. I overlooked the obvious.
Except it wasn't quite *so* obvious inasmuch as I transfer my flour from
paper bag container to Tupperware and have no label. Thank you for the
reminder and for the information.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
"Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Lots of background
> I've just become part of a group that will bake bread for communion at
> the church I'm attending.
>
> Last night we had an information and instruction session. We were in
> two groups (two people each group, basically). The woman I was paired
> with scooped the measure of ww flour from and inside the bag and leveled
> it by pressing it against the inside of the bag. Quel horror. Because
> I'm an outsider in the group, I managed to keep my mouth shut about the
> fact that she was packing it in. I scooped the white flour in a similar
> fashion but leveled it with a straightedge. In the final prep, our
> dough was drier than the batch assembled by the other pair.
>
> The outcome: The other pair's dough was moist and smooth; ours seemed
> dry but we didn't add any more liquid anything to compensate or make
> ours look more like theirs. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
>
> As we tested the finished product and evaluated the whole thing as a
> group exercise, I suggested that measuring by weight would be more
> accurate and should produce a more consistent product and I volunteered
> to pre-measure the dry ingredients and make packages for an individual's
> use; the liquids would need to be measured and added by each baker.
>
> In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
>
> My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>
> Here's a link to the recipe.
> http://www.luthersem.edu/resources/c...ead_recipe.asp
>
> Comments?
> FWIW, I've got a call in to the sem's dining services honcho to ask a
> couple other questions about the recipe's prep, too.
> Thanks.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> "Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
> http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
> http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006
For general home baking, measuring is ok- When you are baking on a
larger scale, using weights is a lot more accurate. Anyway, most people
don't have a scale in their kitchen.

On 26 Oct 2006 08:14:42 -0700, Merryb > wrote:

> For general home baking, measuring is ok- When you are baking on a
> larger scale, using weights is a lot more accurate. Anyway, most people
> don't have a scale in their kitchen.

In the end, the feel of the dough is what is important, and that the
feel be correct for that bread.

Professional bakers weigh carefully, and then they feel the dough to
make sure it feels right. And then they taste it to make sure, really
sure, that they put the salt in.

I used to be a weight skeptic. I'm not sure if it was here or in
alt.bread.recipes a number of people weighed their cups of flour. The
range was from slighlty under 100 to over 200 grams per cup, depending
on how they filled the cup. All of these were with all-purpose flour.

Worse, there were people who had as much as a 25% cup to cup variation.

Actually, if you leave the United States, you'll probably find most
homes have set of kitchen scales, or two. And given the very
reasonable price of a decent set of My Weigh scales on eBay, I think
that they are a good investment for bakers in the USA also. (I've had
excellent luck with My Weigh. Bad luck with Digi Weigh.)

If you know what you are doing, you can use cups successfully. If you
don't know what you're doing, scales might not save you.

When I started baking professionally, I discarded all but one set of
cups and tablespoons - I still need to convert recipes from time to
time. Though I no longer bake professionally (though I hope to start
again soon), I still weigh everything. It's easier. It's faster.
And it's more consistent.

How do I convert from cups to weight? I put a bowl on a scale, turn
it on, zero it, and then measure out the liquid ingredients, noting
the weights, and zeroing after each addition. Then I add salt, sugar
and other small powdered ingredients, weighing and zeroing as I go.

If the recipe is a multi-flour recipe, I add the smaller amounts of
flour to the bowl, weighing and zeroing as I go. So, if it calls for
2 cups of rye, 2 cups of whole wheat and 4 cups of white flour, I add
the 2 cups of rye, check the weight, add the 2 cups of whole wheat and
again check the weight. Then I finish up with the last flour as
described in the next paragraph.

If the recipe is for just one kind of flour, or if I am finishing up a
multi-flour recipe, I turn on the scales and put a fresh bowl (clean
and dry) on the scales. I don't zero the scales, but I do add twice
the flour the recipe calls for, check the weight and write it down. I
don't zero the scales because most electonic scales shut themselves
off after a while, and then they forget what was on them. Since the
next step will take a while, a pencil and paper and a good reference
point work really well here.

At this point, I stir the stuff in the first bowl and start adding the
flour from the second bowl. I usually start by adding about 1/2 the
flour called for. Once the dough is too hard to stir, I turn it out
into a floured board and start kneading. Of course the flour on the
board came from the second bowl. Any flour I knead in also comes from
the second bowl. Once the dough feels right, I cover it and let it
start rising.

And then I check the weight of the second bowl. I subtract that
weight from the starting weight, and I know how much flour I added to
the dough.

At this point, I clean and put the cups away. If I need to adjust the
recipe, I adjust the weights. I usually put the recipe into a
spreadsheet so I can more easily scale it up and down.

I find that I can, at this point, skip the whole "add a little flour
at a time" game and just weigh and mix, which is a great time savings
all by itself.

Hope that helps,
Mike

Melba, consider this: to work with weight when making bread, start
with whatever amount of flour, weigh it and assign it the percent value
of 100%. In this sysem all the other ingredients are a percentage of
the flour's weight. This may be in ounces or grams. I work in grams
and use a pocket calculator to get the amount, in grams, of water,
yeast, salt, etc. If you do not have receipes which are measured in
weight and want to translate from volume to weight you will have an
additional bit of work. But once that is done for a given receipe you
should experience more consistant results with weight based baking.
There are weight based cookbooks available. Doug


Melba's Jammin' wrote:
snip
>
> In order to determine the weight of the flour, it seems to me like I
> need to first establish a volume measure and weigh it.
>
> My question: What is a good way or the best way to measure the flour
> for volume to then determine its weight? Stir it before measuring?
> Scoop and level? Spoon and level?
>