So heat finally broke, Betsy was in the mood for Bolognese. We were
eating outside, I wanted something to serve cool, so went pink, with
the 2008 Cantalupo "Il Mimo" rosado (I confess to never even thinking
of rose with meat sauce before, but it went ok with the pasta and a
yellow beet salad). Deep beautiful color. Red cherries and strawberry,
a distinct tangy citrus note, a pleasantly bitter herb edge. Even some
light tannins along with good acidity. Fine rose. B+

Tuesday dinner was a really delicious scrod with a ginger garlic
sauce, Japanese eggplant with a peanut sauce, green beans and rice.
Wine was the 2002 Colin-Deleger et Fils " La Maltroie" Chassagne-
Montrachet 1er, C-D has lots of PremOx reports, so I was wary, but
this actually showed like a sound 7 year old. But not a great 7 year
old. Oak is mostly integrated, just a bit of vanillan and hint of
toast, but the pear fruit is a tad subdued, and the finish too short
for a good 1er cru vineyard. Moderate acidity, ok but a bit blah.
Would be ok as a Bourgogne AC B-/C+

Last night we did a citrus marinated fresh farm chicken under brick
(well, skillet) on grill, with chard, salad, and carrots. Wine was the
2002 Luneau-Papin "Clos des Noelles Excelsior" Muscadet. Muscadet
isn't my first thought with chicken, but this isn't your typical
Muscadet, and besides I felt like drinking it. Big and rich, yet with
a good seashell/saline edge that makes you realize it's of its place.
Lemon and green apples, but the fruit (rich though it is) takes
backseat to the minerality that's driving. Needs time A-/B+

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.*

In article
>,
DaleW > wrote:

> So heat finally broke, Betsy was in the mood for Bolognese. We were
> eating outside, I wanted something to serve cool, so went pink, with
> the 2008 Cantalupo "Il Mimo" rosado (I confess to never even thinking
> of rose with meat sauce before, but it went ok with the pasta and a
> yellow beet salad). Deep beautiful color. Red cherries and strawberry,
> a distinct tangy citrus note, a pleasantly bitter herb edge. Even some
> light tannins along with good acidity. Fine rose. B+
>
> Tuesday dinner was a really delicious scrod with a ginger garlic
> sauce, Japanese eggplant with a peanut sauce, green beans and rice.
> Wine was the 2002 Colin-Deleger et Fils " La Maltroie" Chassagne-
> Montrachet 1er, C-D has lots of PremOx reports, so I was wary, but
> this actually showed like a sound 7 year old. But not a great 7 year
> old. Oak is mostly integrated, just a bit of vanillan and hint of
> toast, but the pear fruit is a tad subdued, and the finish too short
> for a good 1er cru vineyard. Moderate acidity, ok but a bit blah.
> Would be ok as a Bourgogne AC B-/C+
>
> Last night we did a citrus marinated fresh farm chicken under brick
> (well, skillet) on grill, with chard, salad, and carrots. Wine was the
> 2002 Luneau-Papin "Clos des Noelles Excelsior" Muscadet. Muscadet
> isn't my first thought with chicken, but this isn't your typical
> Muscadet, and besides I felt like drinking it. Big and rich, yet with
> a good seashell/saline edge that makes you realize it's of its place.
> Lemon and green apples, but the fruit (rich though it is) takes
> backseat to the minerality that's driving. Needs time A-/B+
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.*

Il Mimo is my go to Rosé now. Haven't tried Muscadet with roast chicken.
Sounds good.

DaleW > wrote in news:8ae14501-ef7e-4413-bd8f-
:
>
> Last night we did a citrus marinated fresh farm chicken under brick
> (well, skillet) on grill, with chard, salad, and carrots. Wine was the
> 2002 Luneau-Papin "Clos des Noelles Excelsior" Muscadet. Muscadet
> isn't my first thought with chicken, but this isn't your typical
> Muscadet, and besides I felt like drinking it. Big and rich, yet with
> a good seashell/saline edge that makes you realize it's of its place.
> Lemon and green apples, but the fruit (rich though it is) takes
> backseat to the minerality that's driving. Needs time A-/B+
>

Love that wine, love the people behind them (having visited the Domaine
twice) and even recommended it to a local importer. It is a tough sell,
however, since it is quite subtle and benefits from a good decant and not
too low temperature. Both things are not easily understandable in Spain
(and there is not a big appreciation of Muscadet), where whites are rarely
decanted and most times served too cold.

I will open one this weekend.

s.

On Aug 27, 3:58*pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *DaleW > wrote:
> > So heat finally broke, Betsy was in the mood for Bolognese. We were
> > eating outside, I wanted something to serve cool, so went pink, with
> > the 2008 Cantalupo "Il Mimo" rosado (I confess to never even thinking
> > of rose with meat sauce before, but it went ok with the pasta and a
> > yellow beet salad). Deep beautiful color. Red cherries and strawberry,
> > a distinct tangy citrus note, a pleasantly bitter herb edge. Even some
> > light tannins along with good acidity. Fine rose. B+
>
> > Tuesday dinner was a really delicious scrod with a ginger garlic
> > sauce, Japanese eggplant with a peanut sauce, green beans and rice.
> > Wine was the 2002 Colin-Deleger et Fils " La Maltroie" Chassagne-
> > Montrachet 1er, C-D has lots of PremOx reports, so I was wary, but
> > this actually showed like a sound 7 year old. But not a great 7 year
> > old. Oak is mostly integrated, just a bit of vanillan and hint of
> > toast, but the pear fruit is a tad subdued, and the finish too short
> > for a good 1er cru vineyard. Moderate acidity, ok but a bit blah.
> > Would be ok as a Bourgogne AC B-/C+
>
> > Last night we did a citrus marinated fresh farm chicken under brick
> > (well, skillet) on grill, with chard, salad, and carrots. Wine was the
> > 2002 Luneau-Papin "Clos des Noelles *Excelsior" Muscadet. Muscadet
> > isn't my first thought with chicken, but this isn't your typical
> > Muscadet, and besides I felt like drinking it. Big and rich, yet with
> > a good seashell/saline edge that makes you realize it's of its place.
> > Lemon and green apples, but the fruit (rich though it is) takes
> > backseat to the minerality that's driving. Needs time A-/B+
>
> > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.*
>
> Il Mimo is my go to Rosé now. Haven't tried Muscadet with roast chicken..
> Sounds good.

Well, I'd still prefer a white Burg with the lemony chicken, but this
did pretty well. Not sure a leaner Muscadet would have done as well.
This would have been even better with oysters!

On Aug 27, 4:47*pm, santiago > wrote:
> DaleW > wrote in news:8ae14501-ef7e-4413-bd8f-
> :
>
>
>
> > Last night we did a citrus marinated fresh farm chicken under brick
> > (well, skillet) on grill, with chard, salad, and carrots. Wine was the
> > 2002 Luneau-Papin "Clos des Noelles *Excelsior" Muscadet. Muscadet
> > isn't my first thought with chicken, but this isn't your typical
> > Muscadet, and besides I felt like drinking it. Big and rich, yet with
> > a good seashell/saline edge that makes you realize it's of its place.
> > Lemon and green apples, but the fruit (rich though it is) takes
> > backseat to the minerality that's driving. Needs time A-/B+
>
> Love that wine, love the people behind them (having visited the Domaine
> twice) and even recommended it to a local importer. It is a tough sell,
> however, since it is quite subtle and benefits from a good decant and not
> too low temperature. Both things are not easily understandable in Spain
> (and there is not a big appreciation of Muscadet), where whites are rarely
> decanted and most times served too cold.
>
> I will open one this weekend.
>
> s.

Look forward to you reporting! Have you had the Pepiere "Granite de
Clisson," another "serious" Muscadet?

DaleW wrote:

> Well, I'd still prefer a white Burg with the lemony chicken, but this
> did pretty well. Not sure a leaner Muscadet would have done as well.
> This would have been even better with oysters!

And, as Dale already mentioned, the '02 Clos des Noëlles Semper
Excelsior is no ordinary Muscadet. I had a bottle of this back in Feb,
and it is both richer and more precise than a typical Muscadet, a
remarkable achievement. In many ways, it bears a resemblance to a good
White Burg, though its flavor profile is of course distinct.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

DaleW wrote:

> Look forward to you reporting! Have you had the Pepiere "Granite de
> Clisson," another "serious" Muscadet?

I've had the '05 Granite de Clisson twice now, once last year and again
in Durham, NC last week (with Nathan VdG, the Vulgar Little Monkey).
Maybe it just needs more time, but it was far more disjoint and even a
bit soft. It had just traveled with me from Orlando, where I had found
it in a nice little wine shop (http://www.winebarn.net). I have another
bottle in the cellar, so I'll see if time and rest do it good.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

DaleW > wrote in
:
>
> Look forward to you reporting! Have you had the Pepiere "Granite de
> Clisson," another "serious" Muscadet?

Unfortunately not (I do not think it is imported here). I have a memory of
the basic wine by Marc Ollivier (vintage 2004 or so) but I always liked
Luneau-Papin better.

My first contact with Muscadet was with a "caviste" in Angers that I
visited for the first time in 2001, when I was invited to teach a subject
at a Business School (and I keep going every autumn since then, both to the
BS and the caviste!).

I remember that, back in home, when opening that cheap bottle of Domaine
Pierre de la Grange VV 2000 or 2001 (from Luneau Papin) almost one year
later and being astonished as how good the wine was.

So next year I purchased a case This was the time when I was starting to
get interest in wine and, being just married, I had to keep an eye on.
price, so this wine was some sort of a bargain to me.

When I knew that a local shop was selling Muscadet, I went and got a
bottle, and it was Marc Ollivier's basic wine. I was a bit deceived, for I
found a reductive note that I considered "dirty".

I even travelled once to the wine fair that is held in Angers every
february and tasted the full range of wines by Mr. Ollivier, but I never
found the clarity and precission that I find in the wines by Luneau-Papin.
I do not want to sound like I am bashing Dom. de la Pepiere.

Since next autumn I will be travelling back to Angers to teach again, I
will try to find a bottle of Granite de Clisson.

Sorry for telling a story that probably means nothing to most people.

Best,

s.

On Aug 28, 12:04*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > Look forward to you reporting! Have you had the Pepiere "Granite de
> > Clisson," another "serious" Muscadet?
>
> I've had the '05 Granite de Clisson twice now, once last year and again
> in Durham, NC last week (with Nathan VdG, the Vulgar Little Monkey).
> Maybe it just needs more time, but it was far more disjoint and even a
> bit soft. *It had just traveled with me from Orlando, where I had found
> it in a nice little wine shop (http://www.winebarn.net). *I have another
> bottle in the cellar, so I'll see if time and rest do it good.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

resting my lone bottle too

On Aug 28, 1:01*pm, santiago > wrote:>
> Sorry for telling a story that probably means nothing to most people.
>
>
Hardly! I love stories about lives meeting wines!

I'm your flip side, I love the Pepiere, a bit more than Luneau-Papin.
The Pepiere Briords is usually my favorite Muscadet, followed by the L
d'Or.

DaleW wrote:
> On Aug 28, 1:01 pm, santiago > wrote:>
>> Sorry for telling a story that probably means nothing to most people.
>>
>>
> Hardly! I love stories about lives meeting wines!
>
> I'm your flip side, I love the Pepiere, a bit more than Luneau-Papin.
> The Pepiere Briords is usually my favorite Muscadet, followed by the L
> d'Or.

And I'll split the difference, loving both. The one difference that
I'll note is the number of cuvées offered by L-P: Pierre de la Grange, L
d'Or, Clos des Noëlles 'Semper Excelsior' and Clos des Allees. In
contrast, the redoubtable M. Ollivier has the basic Pepiere, the Clos
des Briords and the Cuvée Eden/Gras Mouton. At the basic level, I think
that the Pepiere has a bit more character, but at the more exalted level
it's hard to choose between the lovely L d'Or and the fantastic Clos des
Briords (I haven't had enough of the single vyd wines to draw many
conclusions). It's also true that I've had more aged L d'Or than aged
Briords, so it's not a fair comparison. I've got several of each from
'04 (Andrew's birth year) so more on this later.

Mark Lipton



--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 28, 3:42*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 1:01 pm, santiago > wrote:>
> >> Sorry for telling a story that probably means nothing to most people.
>
> > Hardly! I love stories about lives meeting wines!
>
> > I'm your flip side, I love the Pepiere, a bit more than Luneau-Papin.
> > The Pepiere Briords is usually my favorite Muscadet, followed by the L
> > d'Or.
>
> And I'll split the difference, loving both. *The one difference that
> I'll note is the number of cuvées offered by L-P: Pierre de la Grange, L
> d'Or, Clos des Noëlles 'Semper Excelsior' and Clos des Allees. *In
> contrast, the redoubtable M. Ollivier has the basic Pepiere, the Clos
> des Briords and the Cuvée Eden/Gras Mouton. *At the basic level, I think
> that the Pepiere has a bit more character, but at the more exalted level
> it's hard to choose between the lovely L d'Or and the fantastic Clos des
> Briords (I haven't had enough of the single vyd wines to draw many
> conclusions). *It's also true that I've had more aged L d'Or than aged
> Briords, so it's not a fair comparison. *I've got several of each from
> '04 (Andrew's birth year) so more on this later.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

You forgot the Granite de Clisson (and the red Muscadets!)

Mark Lipton > wrote in
:
>
> And I'll split the difference, loving both. The one difference that
> I'll note is the number of cuvées offered by L-P: Pierre de la Grange,
> L d'Or, Clos des Noëlles 'Semper Excelsior' and Clos des Allees.

The range of Luneau Papin is deeper than that:

- Domaine Pierre de la Grange
- Domaine Pierre de la Grange Vielles Vignes
- Hermine d'Or (Les Pierres Blanches VV)
- Le L d'Or
- Clos des Allées
- Semper Excelsior: Clos du Poyet (terroir micaschistes) up to 2002
(won't be released further). Clos des Noelles (terroir schistes) with
last vintage released 2004.

And there is yet another cuvée coming from a particular parcel called
"La Butte sur la Roche" which will be managed by Pierre's son.

I thought I had one bottle of Clos des Noelles 2002 but I was wrong, it
was a 2004. I had a 2002 Clos du Poyet that I opened for dinner and I
found it very approachable at 18 degrees celsius (which is a red wine
sort of temperature). Then I chilled it down to 13 and it was a bit less
expresive but good drinking. I specially appreciate that it is opulent
in the nose but really dry in the mouth, which I think is very
interesting and not very commonly seen. I'd enjoy it very much with some
iberic ham.

In
> contrast, the redoubtable M. Ollivier has the basic Pepiere, the Clos
> des Briords and the Cuvée Eden/Gras Mouton. At the basic level, I
> think that the Pepiere has a bit more character, but at the more
> exalted level it's hard to choose between the lovely L d'Or and the
> fantastic Clos des Briords (I haven't had enough of the single vyd
> wines to draw many conclusions). It's also true that I've had more
> aged L d'Or than aged Briords, so it's not a fair comparison. I've
> got several of each from '04 (Andrew's birth year) so more on this
> later.

I have had three verticals of L d'Or wines and it is amazing how a ten
years old cheap wine such as L d'Or 1997 or 1999 is drinking now. I have
been lucky enough to taste 1982 a couple of times and it is really a
worthwile experience.

s.

santiago wrote:
>
> The range of Luneau Papin is deeper than that:
>
> - Domaine Pierre de la Grange
> - Domaine Pierre de la Grange Vielles Vignes
> - Hermine d'Or (Les Pierres Blanches VV)
> - Le L d'Or
> - Clos des Allées
> - Semper Excelsior: Clos du Poyet (terroir micaschistes) up to 2002
> (won't be released further). Clos des Noelles (terroir schistes) with
> last vintage released 2004.

Interesting, S. I don't believe that the Hermine d'Or is imported to
the US, but I could well be mistaken. And I never saw a Clos du Poyet,
but I didn't really take notice of Muscadet until about '04.


> I specially appreciate that it is opulent
> in the nose but really dry in the mouth, which I think is very
> interesting and not very commonly seen. I'd enjoy it very much with some
> iberic ham.

Opulent and dry does indeed well describe those "GC" Muscadets. I'd
love to try them with some jamón ibérico, too. That's one of my most
lasting memories of Barna: simple bocadillos de jamón ibérico that were
so damn tasty that I could eat them every day.


> I have had three verticals of L d'Or wines and it is amazing how a ten
> years old cheap wine such as L d'Or 1997 or 1999 is drinking now. I have
> been lucky enough to taste 1982 a couple of times and it is really a
> worthwile experience.

I had some of the '97 L d'Or that Pierre Luneau re-released a couple of
years ago and in London in '06 I shared a bottle of the '90 L d'Or that
was still in great shape. Older Muscadet (at least the top ones) take
on the character of Chablis, I find, which is a balm to me as the price
of Chablis continues to escalate and the concerns about PremOx keep me
from aging them.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton > wrote in :
>
> Interesting, S. I don't believe that the Hermine d'Or is imported to
> the US, but I could well be mistaken.

And interestingly, I haven't tasted Clos des Allées in my two visits to the
Domaine. Perhaps a cuvée made only for the U.S. importer.

> Opulent and dry does indeed well describe those "GC" Muscadets. I'd
> love to try them with some jamón ibérico, too. That's one of my most
> lasting memories of Barna: simple bocadillos de jamón ibérico that were
> so damn tasty that I could eat them every day.

LOL. AFAIK, La Tienda is selling jamón ibérico in the U.S. (at three times
the price of it in Spain but...).
>
> I had some of the '97 L d'Or that Pierre Luneau re-released a couple of
> years ago and in London in '06 I shared a bottle of the '90 L d'Or that
> was still in great shape. Older Muscadet (at least the top ones) take
> on the character of Chablis, I find, which is a balm to me as the price
> of Chablis continues to escalate and the concerns about PremOx keep me
> from aging them.

I lack a big experience with aged Chablis, but agree with your comparison.

s.

Mark Lipton wrote:
> santiago wrote:
>> The range of Luneau Papin is deeper than that:
>>
>> - Domaine Pierre de la Grange
>> - Domaine Pierre de la Grange Vielles Vignes
>> - Hermine d'Or (Les Pierres Blanches VV)
>> - Le L d'Or
>> - Clos des Allées
>> - Semper Excelsior: Clos du Poyet (terroir micaschistes) up to 2002
>> (won't be released further). Clos des Noelles (terroir schistes) with
>> last vintage released 2004.
>
> Interesting, S. I don't believe that the Hermine d'Or is imported to
> the US, but I could well be mistaken. And I never saw a Clos du Poyet,
> but I didn't really take notice of Muscadet until about '04.
>
[]

I opened I couple of bottles of the H d'Or a few weeks ago, with a large
English crowd. Didn't take notes, but the wine as always was full
of evocative chalk and sea flavors, amazingly complex. No one wanted
to believe it was a Muscadet!

Big fan of L-P and of S. for introducing me to the domaine.

Hopefully, Santiago, we'll be able to get together during your
upcoming annual visit.

-E

Emery Davis > wrote in news:7fth2lF2mvdi7U1
@mid.individual.net:
>
> Big fan of L-P and of S. for introducing me to the domaine.

LOL, I use to say that I "discovered" it before it got high praise in wine
guides. I have just received the 2010 edition (!) of Bettane et Desseauve
guide and Luneau Papin is starting to get half the recognition they deserve

>
> Hopefully, Santiago, we'll be able to get together during your
> upcoming annual visit.

Well, that's good news! Chinon troisième part? or will you let me take you
to Le Landreau (where L-P is) in the morning with an optional visit to
Thouarcé (Mark Angeli) in the afternoon?

s.

santiago wrote:
> Emery Davis > wrote in news:7fth2lF2mvdi7U1
> @mid.individual.net:
>> Big fan of L-P and of S. for introducing me to the domaine.
>
> LOL, I use to say that I "discovered" it before it got high praise in wine
> guides. I have just received the 2010 edition (!) of Bettane et Desseauve
> guide and Luneau Papin is starting to get half the recognition they deserve
>

Let's just hope that the prices don't start benefiting as well...

Actually I sometimes have rather mixed feelings about that subject.
I wish the family well and would be pleased that their wonderful
wines receive the market compensation of similar products, on the
other hand I want to still be able to drink it!

>> Hopefully, Santiago, we'll be able to get together during your
>> upcoming annual visit.
>
> Well, that's good news! Chinon troisième part? or will you let me take you
> to Le Landreau (where L-P is) in the morning with an optional visit to
> Thouarcé (Mark Angeli) in the afternoon?
>

I guess the second plan is a good one, I need to put in a couple cases
of L d'Or, that way I can save on shipping. When is your trip
this year?

-E

Emery Davis > wrote in
:
>
> Let's just hope that the prices don't start benefiting as well...
>
> Actually I sometimes have rather mixed feelings about that subject.
> I wish the family well and would be pleased that their wonderful
> wines receive the market compensation of similar products, on the
> other hand I want to still be able to drink it!

I share your view. The fact is that the Grand Cru Muscadets is not but one
attempt to charge a higher price for the wine. Since the wine is good, the
wine deserve the price it fetches. I do not think they are easy to sell,
specially in France, where the "Muscadet" brand is associated with cheap
wine and not specially good. More like "supermarket wine". But you knew
that since you live there.

However, I have had an interest in wine for about 10 years and in the
process, there are wines that have gone beyond my reach. Whenever this
happens, another unknown region or grower shows up making great wines at
the right prices. If Muscadet goes out of reach, good for the people that
gets up at 5am to prune in february. And just move to the next great wine
in the queue.
>
> I guess the second plan is a good one, I need to put in a couple cases
> of L d'Or, that way I can save on shipping. When is your trip
> this year?

Let's go on planning by email. Check your inbox.

Best,

s.