A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
went through all its normal fermentation process from OG 1.090 down to final
SG of 0.993. It was put into glass 23litre and topped up for bulk aging (
well bulk aging for me at least ), having been degassed and adjusted for
sulphite. It was not treated with finings or Pottasium sorbate. It was
already quite clear at this stage, and very dry to the taste. It was racked
one further time in May and after that deposited virtually no further lees.
There was not sign of any fermentation at all during the bulk aging
rocess - and I did not expct any!
I bottled it on 7 September to make room for new wine.. It was crystal
clear, no sign of excessive CO2 and promised to be a good dry flinty
Sauvignon Blanc. it was subsequently labelled and put on wine racks.
Two days ago a pulled a bottle to try it ( to be my one bottle/week!!) and
discoverd a fine deposit if leesdown the bottom side of the bottle. i
inspected the other 30 bottles and found the same in them all.
Clearly there had been some more fermentation after bottling and I can only
believe that this must have been malolactic.
I have only experienced a "self starting" malolactic fermentation once
before and that was in a country wine base on Apples, oranges and grapes
juice and occured in bulk and went on for about a year --- just a tiny ring
of minute bubbles around the edge of the carboy in 2 out of 5 x 1 gallon (
imp).
I have not experienced Malolactic fermentation in wine kits before ( at
least to my knowledge ).

So!!!!!!! Is this what has happened? in bottle -- after 7 months plus in
bulk aging.

The wine, by the way is quite excellent and improved muchly since
bottling -- but slightly "pettilant" as you might expect -- but not
excessively so

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
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I have had white wines look clear, then I add the finings and they
drop sediment. All I can suggest is that some of it may be dissolved,
and thus would not affect the clarity much. Now why it decided to
precipitate out in the bottle... I don't know.

Trevor,
You have me baffled... Seems likely that a fermentation renewed, but a
..993 I cant see how. The only other thing I can think of is a Protein
deposit as you didn't fine with Bentonite. I am pretty sure all kits do not
contain Malic Acid, and hence it is not an issue, but I don't make many
kits.
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
went through all its normal fermentation process from OG 1.090 down to
final
SG of 0.993. It was put into glass 23litre and topped up for bulk aging (
well bulk aging for me at least ), having been degassed and adjusted for
sulphite. It was not treated with finings or Pottasium sorbate. It was
already quite clear at this stage, and very dry to the taste. It was
racked
one further time in May and after that deposited virtually no further
lees.
There was not sign of any fermentation at all during the bulk aging
rocess - and I did not expct any!
I bottled it on 7 September to make room for new wine.. It was crystal
clear, no sign of excessive CO2 and promised to be a good dry flinty
Sauvignon Blanc. it was subsequently labelled and put on wine racks.
Two days ago a pulled a bottle to try it ( to be my one bottle/week!!) and
discoverd a fine deposit if leesdown the bottom side of the bottle. i
inspected the other 30 bottles and found the same in them all.
Clearly there had been some more fermentation after bottling and I can
only
believe that this must have been malolactic.
I have only experienced a "self starting" malolactic fermentation once
before and that was in a country wine base on Apples, oranges and grapes
juice and occured in bulk and went on for about a year --- just a tiny
ring
of minute bubbles around the edge of the carboy in 2 out of 5 x 1 gallon (
imp).
I have not experienced Malolactic fermentation in wine kits before ( at
least to my knowledge ).

So!!!!!!! Is this what has happened? in bottle -- after 7 months plus in
bulk aging.

The wine, by the way is quite excellent and improved muchly since
bottling -- but slightly "pettilant" as you might expect -- but not
excessively so

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

Tks
I can't see how it is restart of ordinary fermentation and malolactic is
obviously improbable in the extreme. So I suppose it my be a protein
deposit. It is only mildly annoying because the wine is amazingly good. It
is just that the deposit spoils the look in the bottle and I shall have to
decant when serving it to friends rather than presenting it in the bottle
( which I prefer ) I do like my Sauvignon Blancs' and especially my
Muscadet to have the tingle in the mouth feeling and I try and leave enough
CO2 in the wine to produce this. It is just that all the bottles had the
same deposit -- otherwise I could have accepted a transference of lees from
the bulk if it had just been a couple of bottles but not all 31 bottles.

Ah well there is something different in every wine I make! If in doubt blame
myself

BTW this kit was a £30ish kit in UK -- which is what I tend to spend on my
whites. I buy the Selection International/Limited edition series for my reds
and they cost me £50 ish -- but I am always dissatisfied with the reds --
(I am a red wine man )--what I have always felt to be a "cooked" taste
hiding within the flavours. I bought a Zinfandel Selection Estate kit
(£75!) this autumn and it is now under wraps for a year -- I wonder what it
will be like!
Only done a strawberry and an Apricot this year of "country wine" -- oh --
and yes I am on the beginning of the long way of making a fortified
elderberry/black berry ( 3/1 Elderberry/Blackberry ) -- might just be
drinkable for my 70th birthday in 4 years time

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
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"J Dixon" wrote in message
t...
Trevor,
You have me baffled... Seems likely that a fermentation renewed, but a
.993 I cant see how. The only other thing I can think of is a Protein
deposit as you didn't fine with Bentonite. I am pretty sure all kits do
not
contain Malic Acid, and hence it is not an issue, but I don't make many
kits.
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
snipsnip

You may be finished with your wine but apparently your wine is not
finished with you. I don't know what is happening, but I do know that
it's very improbably a MLF. Kits are balanced in such a way that MLF
is not necessary. Moreover, if an MLF is attempted, or in the unlike
event that it occurs spontaneously, it would leave the wine tasting
flabby and inferior - your taste buds seem to tell you otherwise.

Pinky wrote:

Tks
I can't see how it is restart of ordinary fermentation and malolactic is
obviously improbable in the extreme. So I suppose it my be a protein
deposit. It is only mildly annoying because the wine is amazingly good. It
is just that the deposit spoils the look in the bottle and I shall have to
decant when serving it to friends rather than presenting it in the bottle
( which I prefer ) I do like my Sauvignon Blancs' and especially my
Muscadet to have the tingle in the mouth feeling and I try and leave enough
CO2 in the wine to produce this. It is just that all the bottles had the
same deposit -- otherwise I could have accepted a transference of lees from
the bulk if it had just been a couple of bottles but not all 31 bottles.

Ah well there is something different in every wine I make! If in doubt blame
myself

BTW this kit was a £30ish kit in UK -- which is what I tend to spend on my
whites. I buy the Selection International/Limited edition series for my reds
and they cost me £50 ish -- but I am always dissatisfied with the reds --
(I am a red wine man )--what I have always felt to be a "cooked" taste
hiding within the flavours. I bought a Zinfandel Selection Estate kit
(£75!) this autumn and it is now under wraps for a year -- I wonder what it
will be like!
Only done a strawberry and an Apricot this year of "country wine" -- oh --
and yes I am on the beginning of the long way of making a fortified
elderberry/black berry ( 3/1 Elderberry/Blackberry ) -- might just be
drinkable for my 70th birthday in 4 years time

Hi Trevor,

That makes you one year older than me!

I did a black/elderbery wine this year, but only 1 gallon. 4lbs of each
berry. An early taste after the first racking seems very promissing. It
is now laying "dogo" in bulk in an upstairs cupboard. I shall prolly
rack again before cringle.

Both blackberries and elderberries were realy good this year in Devon.
However, I was on holiday from end Sep to mid Oct, so never got round to
making more. There were one or two pickable ones, but most were dried
out :-(

I've just been to look at it, nothing doing there, thank goodness!

--
Regards, Shane.
"A closed mouth gathers no feet."
Web site: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

Ahh, this brings back memories of my first kit. I made a Blackberry
Cabernet from a kit and did everything according to the insert. I was
positive that fermentation had stopped. The fermentation started
immediately AFTER I bottled. For the first week it was OK, giving
exactly the tingle in the mouth that you describe. However, since it
had sweeteners, it went out of acceptable very soon...

I traced the problem to the CORKS. I had taken them from the mfrs
sack of 1000 and splashed with tap water. From then on I used
metabisulfite solution to moisten the corks (no soaking, just shook
corks in ziplock bag with solution) and I have not had a repetition of
the problem. I discard any corks that are not used in the session..I
suppose that it is possible for them to get wild yeasts if they are
not stored clean and dry...

If you want to rescue this wine, dump it into a carboy, add more
bisulfite, let it set 2 weeks and rack. Then re-bottle with rinsed
corks. I also avoid the sorbate and finings if the wine looks good
without. I have also seen the packets of bisulfite run short, so I
keep the bulk handy...
Irene

"Pinky" wrote in message ...
A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
went through all its normal fermentation process from OG 1.090 down to final
SG of 0.993. It was put into glass 23litre and topped up for bulk aging (
well bulk aging for me at least ), having been degassed and adjusted for
sulphite. It was not treated with finings or Pottasium sorbate. It was
.
I bottled it on 7 September to make room for new wine.. It was
crystal
clear, no sign of excessive CO2 and promised to be a good dry flinty
Sauvignon Blanc. it was subsequently labelled and put on wine racks.
Two days ago a pulled a bottle to try it ( to be my one bottle/week!!) and

Interesting thought!
I stopped "treating" my corks in any way after a long discussion with a cork
manufacturer about 2 years ago. Before that time I had used every
conceivable method of sulphiting /scalding/boiling/ etc etc over many years
and was always concerned with this stage of the process of wine making after
lots of TLC during the fermenting and aging processes.
I must say that I have had no adverse effects since I started using corks
direct from their packaging in a floor corker but whether the packaging is
sanitised or not I cant tell --- probably not. I have just used my first
synthetic corks and found them a little more difficult in the floor
corker -- excessive dimpling and a tendency to bulge at the top of the cork
which needed a deeper insertion action to overcome. I haven't made up my
mind about them yet!
I shalln't re hash the wine by bulking it up again but retain it for in
house use. As I said, it is extremely drinkable and I wouldn't want to risk
spoiling it at this stage
Tks for the thought anyway!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
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The way I treat corks is this: I place a wine bottle half-full of
sulfite solution in the center of a 6 gallon juice pail. When I either
get corks or have extras, I dump them in and put the lid on. This
works both as a sanitizer and a humididor. I never wet or treat corks
in any manner. Everything is fine. And I have kept corks for over a
year. Warning - never get your nose too close when you first remove
the lid.
Tim
Ahh, this brings back memories of my first kit. I made a Blackberry
Cabernet from a kit and did everything according to the insert. I was
positive that fermentation had stopped. The fermentation started
immediately AFTER I bottled. For the first week it was OK, giving
exactly the tingle in the mouth that you describe. However, since it
had sweeteners, it went out of acceptable very soon...

I traced the problem to the CORKS. I had taken them from the mfrs
sack of 1000 and splashed with tap water. From then on I used
metabisulfite solution to moisten the corks (no soaking, just shook
corks in ziplock bag with solution) and I have not had a repetition of
the problem. I discard any corks that are not used in the session..I
suppose that it is possible for them to get wild yeasts if they are
not stored clean and dry...

If you want to rescue this wine, dump it into a carboy, add more
bisulfite, let it set 2 weeks and rack. Then re-bottle with rinsed
corks. I also avoid the sorbate and finings if the wine looks good
without. I have also seen the packets of bisulfite run short, so I
keep the bulk handy...
Irene

"Pinky" wrote in message ...
A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
went through all its normal fermentation process from OG 1.090 down to final
SG of 0.993. It was put into glass 23litre and topped up for bulk aging (
well bulk aging for me at least ), having been degassed and adjusted for
sulphite. It was not treated with finings or Pottasium sorbate. It was
.
I bottled it on 7 September to make room for new wine.. It was
crystal
clear, no sign of excessive CO2 and promised to be a good dry flinty
Sauvignon Blanc. it was subsequently labelled and put on wine racks.
Two days ago a pulled a bottle to try it ( to be my one bottle/week!!) and

(Tim McNally) wrote in message . com...
The way I treat corks is this: I place a wine bottle half-full of
sulfite solution in the center of a 6 gallon juice pail. When I either
get corks or have extras, I dump them in and put the lid on. This
works both as a sanitizer and a humididor. I never wet or treat corks
in any manner. Everything is fine. And I have kept corks for over a
year. Warning - never get your nose too close when you first remove
the lid.
Tim

I had read about this humidor thing. I also considered that the mfr
said no soaking or boiling. I'm a lazy slug, so I just clean the
necessary number.

Irene

It isn't Malolactic, not with a kit and with your taste report. My best
guess is it still had some fine material in the wine that precipitated in
the bottle... happens sometimes, especially if you don't filter. I don't and
I see it every once in awhile.

--

---------------------------------------------
Mike Polo
remove noharvest. to reply
www.nappingbear.communitytheater.org

The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being
carried out.


George Carlin
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
A white wine kit "Sauvignon Blanc" which I started in November last year
went through all its normal fermentation process from OG 1.090 down to
final
SG of 0.993. It was put into glass 23litre and topped up for bulk aging (
well bulk aging for me at least ), having been degassed and adjusted for
sulphite. It was not treated with finings or Pottasium sorbate. It was
already quite clear at this stage, and very dry to the taste. It was
racked
one further time in May and after that deposited virtually no further
lees.
There was not sign of any fermentation at all during the bulk aging
rocess - and I did not expct any!
I bottled it on 7 September to make room for new wine.. It was crystal
clear, no sign of excessive CO2 and promised to be a good dry flinty
Sauvignon Blanc. it was subsequently labelled and put on wine racks.
Two days ago a pulled a bottle to try it ( to be my one bottle/week!!) and
discoverd a fine deposit if leesdown the bottom side of the bottle. i
inspected the other 30 bottles and found the same in them all.
Clearly there had been some more fermentation after bottling and I can
only
believe that this must have been malolactic.
I have only experienced a "self starting" malolactic fermentation once
before and that was in a country wine base on Apples, oranges and grapes
juice and occured in bulk and went on for about a year --- just a tiny
ring
of minute bubbles around the edge of the carboy in 2 out of 5 x 1 gallon (
imp).
I have not experienced Malolactic fermentation in wine kits before ( at
least to my knowledge ).

So!!!!!!! Is this what has happened? in bottle -- after 7 months plus in
bulk aging.

The wine, by the way is quite excellent and improved muchly since
bottling -- but slightly "pettilant" as you might expect -- but not
excessively so

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

Thanks Joanne.
The general opinion, and I am ( and have to be) in agreement, is that there
were some elements in suspension. It is the only logical answer to the fact
that every bottle of that batch was effected in the same way. I still think
it is unusual since the wine had been sitting undisturbed at all from the
beginning of May until 7 September and had been previously sitting
undisturbed from the end of January. After that racking in May there was
virtually no further "precipitation" and I actually bottled it without
moving the carboy ( they're a bit heavy to move anyway ) other than tilting
it a few degrees from the vertical.
Anyway no problem -- it just hasn't happened like that before.

Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
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Trevor,
just bear in mind, that with kits that have those little F-packs, etc
generally contain sorbate. If your kit wine had gone through ML it would
taste like geraniums. Once this has occured, there is nothing you can do
except pour the ontents down the drain. The condition is not reversable.
This is why you don't want to use a commecial wine to top up a kit wine.
Just a rule of thumb.....
Joanne
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Joanne.
The general opinion, and I am ( and have to be) in agreement, is that
there
were some elements in suspension. It is the only logical answer to the
fact
that every bottle of that batch was effected in the same way. I still
think
it is unusual since the wine had been sitting undisturbed at all from the
beginning of May until 7 September and had been previously sitting
undisturbed from the end of January. After that racking in May there was
virtually no further "precipitation" and I actually bottled it without
moving the carboy ( they're a bit heavy to move anyway ) other than
tilting
it a few degrees from the vertical.
Anyway no problem -- it just hasn't happened like that before.

Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

I always use commerical wines to top up my kits and have never had a problem
with MLF starting. I do use levels of SO2 at .8 molecular, which would
prevent it, and this doesn't require a lot of SO2 since the kits I've done
all have fairly low pH.

Ed

"jmreiter" wrote in message
...
Trevor,
just bear in mind, that with kits that have those little F-packs, etc
generally contain sorbate. If your kit wine had gone through ML it would
taste like geraniums. Once this has occured, there is nothing you can do
except pour the ontents down the drain. The condition is not reversable.
This is why you don't want to use a commecial wine to top up a kit wine.
Just a rule of thumb.....
Joanne
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Joanne.

Ed,
which wines do you make? With kit wines that have a sorbate additive, you
need to be careful. With some whites, such as Sauv. Blanc, Riesling and
Gewurztraminer you may not have a problem. But with Chardonnay you would.
Likewise all reds, although I dislike using blanket statements.
Joanne

"Ed Marks" wrote in message
...
I always use commerical wines to top up my kits and have never had a
problem
with MLF starting. I do use levels of SO2 at .8 molecular, which would
prevent it, and this doesn't require a lot of SO2 since the kits I've done
all have fairly low pH.

Ed

"jmreiter" wrote in message
...
Trevor,
just bear in mind, that with kits that have those little F-packs, etc
generally contain sorbate. If your kit wine had gone through ML it would
taste like geraniums. Once this has occured, there is nothing you can do
except pour the ontents down the drain. The condition is not reversable.
This is why you don't want to use a commecial wine to top up a kit wine.
Just a rule of thumb.....
Joanne
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Joanne.