On 10 Mar 2005 19:33:06 -0500, (Lee Rudolph) wrote:

Richard Wright writes (both at and
at level):
...
Mid 19th century in US? What's the source? The Oxford English
Dictionary does not record the phrase in the USA until 1939:

1937 America's Cook Bk. 180. "Lobster or shrimp cocktail . . . Chill
thoroughly and serve in cocktail glasses."
...

I have a precitation for that (below), which I shall take care
to forward to the OED.

...
That's a proper 'cocktail' recipe, certainly. I made a mistake when I
typed". . . in the USA until 1939". Should have been 1937, the date of
the OED citation.

No details of the recipe given, but 'shrimp cocktail' is on a
suggested menu in "Mrs. Allen on Cooking, Menus, Service" by Ida C.
Baily Allen [Doubleday:New York] 1924.
...

The 1932 edition of "Mrs. Allen on Cooking, Menus, Service",
reissued under the title "Ida Bailey Allen's Modern Cookbook",
has a recipe for "Lobster, Shrimp, or Crabmeat Cocktail" in
the "Savoury Cocktails" section of the chapter on "Foods that
Begin a Meal".

Savoury cocktails are usually made of raw fish, although
combinations of raw and smoked fish are sometimes used, and
in rare instances good-sized bits of broiled mushrooms and
sweetbreads are used instead of the fish.

These savoury cocktails should be properly served in cocktail
glasses, which are in turn imbedded in cracked ice--soup plates
or the new glass oyster plates being used for the service. If
the cocktail is mixed with the sauce in the glass, a bit of parsley
may top it, or pieces of green may be placed, wreath fashion, around
the cocktails. If you do not possess cocktail glasses, hollowed-out
green peppers or tomatoes may be used, or the cocktail sauce with
the savour ingredient may be thorougly chillled and served in ordinary
small cocktail glasses. In this case the green is placed at the base.

General Recipe for Cocktail Sauce
(Individual Service)

1/2 tablespoonful tomato catsup or 2 drops tabasco sauce
chili sauce 1/4 teaspoonful celery salt
1/2 tablespoonful lemon juice 3 drops Worcestershire sauce

Combine the ingredients in the order given, mixing them well. IF
desired, a half teaspoonful of olive oil may be added.
...
Lobster, Shrimp, or Crabmeat Cocktail

Allow to each person one-third cupful of diced lobster meat,
diced cooked or canned shrimps, or shredded crabmeat; combine
with cocktail sauce and serve as directed.

(Op. cit., pp. 112-113)

Lee Rudolph

Have just got hold of the 1926 edition. The same text appears on the
pages you cite, so 1926 it is for the OED.

The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

From what I have heard and read, the lobster was eaten by the indians
before the arrival of the Europeans in the 1600's. I imagine that the
shrimp was the same story.

It wasn't till that the fishing industry came up with Dry Freezing on
the ship when they were caught, and this eliminated the mushy
condition of otherwise frozen seafood, making the fresh frozen suprior
to "fresh" seafood.

Just my thought on the subject. No flames from the "experts", please.

Ron C.
==================================


On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:08:08 +1100, Richard Wright
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:32:37 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:


"Max" wrote ...
Hi

Does anyone know anything about the origins/history of the
prawn/shrimp cocktail dish?

Any info gratefully received!

I suspect the lack of answers is evidence not of a lack of interest, but due
to a question for which there may be no definitive answers.

How long have folks eaten boiled shrimp?

Who first discovered that cooked shrimp kept longer than raw shrimp?

Who first awoke hungry and shelled a few shrimp left over from last night's
"boil up" and discovered that cool/cold shrimp were quite pleasant?

Shrimp cocktails were certainly a regular menu item in fancy restaurants in
the mid19th century and in the US spread rapidly to become "the" appetizer
in restaurants in the mid20th century, the standard precursor of steak.

...But then I can recall asa lad sitting on the plaza in Vera Cruz peeling
shrimp and eating them with key lime juice, salt and chiles, under the
general impression that folks had been doing the same since Cortez passed
through town.....;-P

TMO

Well, there is a bit more to a prawn (or shrimp) cocktail than eating
cold prawns just as there is a bit more to a hamburger than eating
hot beef.

Mid 19th century in US? What's the source? The Oxford English
Dictionary does not record the phrase in the USA until 1939:

1937 America's Cook Bk. 180. "Lobster or shrimp cocktail . . . Chill
thoroughly and serve in cocktail glasses."

Perhaps the recipe and name is even later in England. Earliest
citation by OED gives: 1960 M. Patten Cookery in Colour no. 23. "The
correct way of serving these cocktails, though, is to use glasses,
when the lettuce should be shredded very finely and put at the bottom
of the glasses."
Ibid. no. 25 "Cocktail sauce for Prawn or Shrimp Cocktail."

I thumbed through various English cookbooks and could not find it
until Gladys Mann's "Traditional British cooking for pleasure" which
dates from 1967.

Of course the dish may have gone under another name earlier on. But
eating cold prawns is not enough. Any earlier recipe under another
name would need to specify the properties of serving prawns in
individual glasses on a lettuce base and with a concocted sauce
containing ingredients such as tomato ketchup, Worcestershire sauce
and (perhaps) sour cream..

Anyway, it's off to prepare a prawn cocktail for this evening.

"Dr " wrote

The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always
wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach
and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even
imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

I feel the same way about olives right off the tree or
Roquefort cheese.

--
Bob

Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Dr wrote:
The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

From what I have heard and read, the lobster was eaten by the indians
before the arrival of the Europeans in the 1600's. I imagine that the
shrimp was the same story.
Of course! the same you can say about eating crabs! and shells!

In article .com,
seres wrote:

Dr wrote:
The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

From what I have heard and read, the lobster was eaten by the indians
before the arrival of the Europeans in the 1600's. I imagine that the
shrimp was the same story.
Of course! the same you can say about eating crabs! and shells!

It was also eaten by the Europeans before a few of them went wandering
off.

People have been eating shellfish for a very, very long time. As long
as there have been humans at all. Probably longer.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

"Lazarus Cooke" wrote


People have been eating shellfish for a very, very long time. As long
as there have been humans at all. Probably longer.


The notorious (and early extinct) Karankawa, resident on the barrier
isleands of the Texas coast were not blest by many of the advantages of
sophistication and apparenly survived for much of the year on shellfish and
crusty aceans (of all shapes and sizes), leaving no memorials except massive
shell mounds left from countless breakfasts and dinners beside the seas or
the bays.

In the months without an "R" in the name, they became well known among
Europeans for their habit of dining upon stranded Conquistadors, monks,
nuns, assorted settlers and family members, notaries, and seamen cast ashore
on what seems to have been an inhospitable coast. The Kronks must have
been fairly hungry, for they left no bone piles to mark the habit that
caused authors of the period to record their habits indelibly in many
journals and accounts.

TMO

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:27:05 -0700, "Dr "
wrote:

The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

Ron C.

Maybe someone wanted a seafood flavoured drink? What do you mean "not"
that kind of cocktail?

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:27:05 -0700, "Dr "
wrote:

The thing about Shrimp and Lobster, is, that I always wonder who the
first guy was that picked up a dead lobster on the beach and thought
"hmmm I wonder what THIS tastes like?" Can you even imaging eating a
large dead bug? Some one must have been very hungry.

Ron C.

Maybe someone wanted a seafood flavoured drink? What do you mean "not"
that kind of cocktail?