I am making a five gallon apple juice concentrate. I am a learner. I am
in the secondary, and it has been plip plopping fermentation at the
rate of about one surfacing bubble a second for over a month, after ten
days in the primary. Yeast is champagne and the room temp is 75-80
depending day or night.

Now, I'm not in a hurry. Takes as long as it takes, but here is my
question...

Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?

Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
to ask the group what you all think.

Any thoughts/advice/observations?

Thanks

Sean

forgot to mention, this is per terry garey's rich apple recipe
multiplied up for five gallons, and includes yeast nutrient.

snpm wrote:
> I am making a five gallon apple juice concentrate. I am a learner. I am
> in the secondary, and it has been plip plopping fermentation at the
> rate of about one surfacing bubble a second for over a month, after ten
> days in the primary. Yeast is champagne and the room temp is 75-80
> depending day or night.
>
> Now, I'm not in a hurry. Takes as long as it takes, but here is my
> question...
>
> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
>
> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> to ask the group what you all think.
>
> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
>
> Thanks
>
> Sean

I'm a real newbie at this stuff, but I have had a similar experience
with a grapefruit wine recipe. I think it is because i bought jarred
grapefruit that had sodium benzoate preservitive vs a can that had been
pasteurized. I'm doing a parrallel with a fresh fruit recipe and it is
merrily bubbling away. Just a hypothesis from someone who is learning.
Check your concentrate can and see what's in it.

Rick

Aye Rick, no preservatives, I was clued to that caveat before I got
started. Also, the primary fermentation was vigorous. I assume (but
only an assumption of a learner) that if any preservative was going to
inhibit fermentation it would be likely to inhibit it in the primary as
much if not more so than in the secondary?

Sean

EnoNut wrote:
> I'm a real newbie at this stuff, but I have had a similar experience
> with a grapefruit wine recipe. I think it is because i bought jarred
> grapefruit that had sodium benzoate preservitive vs a can that had been
> pasteurized. I'm doing a parrallel with a fresh fruit recipe and it is
> merrily bubbling away. Just a hypothesis from someone who is learning.
> Check your concentrate can and see what's in it.
>
> Rick

My apple cider wine bubbled for almost 2 months before it slowed down. I
don't know why, but I kept going by SG and recipe and in the end, it was
great. I would like to know what Terry Garey's rich apple recipe is, is
it somewhere online or in a book?

--
DAve

snpm wrote:
> forgot to mention, this is per terry garey's rich apple recipe
> multiplied up for five gallons, and includes yeast nutrient.
>
> snpm wrote:
>> I am making a five gallon apple juice concentrate. I am a learner. I am
>> in the secondary, and it has been plip plopping fermentation at the
>> rate of about one surfacing bubble a second for over a month, after ten
>> days in the primary. Yeast is champagne and the room temp is 75-80
>> depending day or night.
>>
>> Now, I'm not in a hurry. Takes as long as it takes, but here is my
>> question...
>>
>> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
>> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
>>
>> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
>> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
>> to ask the group what you all think.
>>
>> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Sean
>

Dave, Terry Garey is the author of "Joy of home winemaking", one of the
few books on country winemaking that seems widely acknowledged as a
"You could get this book and no other" offering.

Thanks for the input!

Sean


Dave Allison wrote:
> My apple cider wine bubbled for almost 2 months before it slowed down. I
> don't know why, but I kept going by SG and recipe and in the end, it was
> great. I would like to know what Terry Garey's rich apple recipe is, is
> it somewhere online or in a book?
>
> --
> DAve
>
> snpm wrote:
> > forgot to mention, this is per terry garey's rich apple recipe
> > multiplied up for five gallons, and includes yeast nutrient.
> >
> > snpm wrote:
> >> I am making a five gallon apple juice concentrate. I am a learner. I am
> >> in the secondary, and it has been plip plopping fermentation at the
> >> rate of about one surfacing bubble a second for over a month, after ten
> >> days in the primary. Yeast is champagne and the room temp is 75-80
> >> depending day or night.
> >>
> >> Now, I'm not in a hurry. Takes as long as it takes, but here is my
> >> question...
> >>
> >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> >>
> >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> >> to ask the group what you all think.
> >>
> >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Sean
> >

Ah. I've never bought a wine making book, so this is new to me. Sounds
like a good one, I'll get it. thanks for sharing.

--
DAve
p.s. hmm. $3.92 on www.half.com used. not bad. smile.

snpm wrote:
> Dave, Terry Garey is the author of "Joy of home winemaking", one of the
> few books on country winemaking that seems widely acknowledged as a
> "You could get this book and no other" offering.
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
> Sean
>
>
> Dave Allison wrote:
>> My apple cider wine bubbled for almost 2 months before it slowed down. I
>> don't know why, but I kept going by SG and recipe and in the end, it was
>> great. I would like to know what Terry Garey's rich apple recipe is, is
>> it somewhere online or in a book?
>>
>> --
>> DAve
>>
>> snpm wrote:
>>> forgot to mention, this is per terry garey's rich apple recipe
>>> multiplied up for five gallons, and includes yeast nutrient.
>>>
>>> snpm wrote:
>>>> I am making a five gallon apple juice concentrate. I am a learner. I am
>>>> in the secondary, and it has been plip plopping fermentation at the
>>>> rate of about one surfacing bubble a second for over a month, after ten
>>>> days in the primary. Yeast is champagne and the room temp is 75-80
>>>> depending day or night.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I'm not in a hurry. Takes as long as it takes, but here is my
>>>> question...
>>>>
>>>> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
>>>> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
>>>>
>>>> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
>>>> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
>>>> to ask the group what you all think.
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Sean
>

That may be no big deal. What is the SG?

If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.

Joe


> > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > >>
> > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > >>
> > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >> Sean
> > >

Joe, how muxh sulphite would you advise adding to rule out this
possibility?


Joe Sallustio wrote:
> That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
>
> If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
>
> Joe
>
>
> > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > >>
> > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > >>
> > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >>
> > > >> Sean
> > > >

Thanks Joe,

The SG is 994 currently.

What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
you proceed?
Thanks as always

Sean

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
>
> If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
>
> Joe
>
>
> > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > >>
> > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > >>
> > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >>
> > > >> Sean
> > > >

Some batchs ferment quickly (3 days) and others go slowly (3 months). It
can usually be attributed to poor nutrients or something like that. It can
also be attributed to too carefuly racking form primary to secondary. This
is more likely when making wine from juice than fruit. You leave too much
of the yeast behind and it slows the ferment down. Yeast will not reproduce
much in secondary as therre is not O2.

ML is especially bad for apple wine as ML eats the malic acid in the wine.
Acid in apple wine is almost completely malic so you can end up with a very
insipid wine. I would suspect a yeast problem before ML.

I assume you have not measured the SG as you have not mensioned it. If not,
get a hydrometer and check it. It will give you an indication of where you
are on finishing.

Ray

"snpm" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks Joe,
>
> The SG is 994 currently.
>
> What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
> you proceed?
> Thanks as always
>
> Sean
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>> That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
>>
>> If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
>> might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the
>> > > >> secondary?
>> > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
>> > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me
>> > > >> curious
>> > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Sean
>> > > >
>

Apples are malic acid, ML turns that to lactic and that may taste
'funny'. 0.994 sounds dry, you can prevent ml with sulfite. A better
test of dryness is to use clinitest tables, is there a wine shop near
you that will test it or can you get some? They are made by Bayer and
are available in some pharmacies by special order.

If you think the wine is dry maybe add 25 PPM (1/8 teaspoon/ 5 gallons
wine) potassium metabisulfite and see if it stops. I would not go
higher than 50 PPM. It could just be slow in finishing too; 995 is not
necessarily dry. Hydrometers really measure dissolved solids and each
wine is different.


snpm wrote:
> Thanks Joe,
>
> The SG is 994 currently.
>
> What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
> you proceed?
> Thanks as always
>
> Sean
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
> >
> > If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> > might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sean
> > > > >

Thank you, sir


Joe Sallustio wrote:
> Apples are malic acid, ML turns that to lactic and that may taste
> 'funny'. 0.994 sounds dry, you can prevent ml with sulfite. A better
> test of dryness is to use clinitest tables, is there a wine shop near
> you that will test it or can you get some? They are made by Bayer and
> are available in some pharmacies by special order.
>
> If you think the wine is dry maybe add 25 PPM (1/8 teaspoon/ 5 gallons
> wine) potassium metabisulfite and see if it stops. I would not go
> higher than 50 PPM. It could just be slow in finishing too; 995 is not
> necessarily dry. Hydrometers really measure dissolved solids and each
> wine is different.
>
>
> snpm wrote:
> > Thanks Joe,
> >
> > The SG is 994 currently.
> >
> > What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
> > you proceed?
> > Thanks as always
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > > That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
> > >
> > > If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> > > might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Sean
> > > > > >

There is an 'opps' in my post, apologies. They are Clinitest tablets,
not tables.

Joe

snpm wrote:
> Thank you, sir
>
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > Apples are malic acid, ML turns that to lactic and that may taste
> > 'funny'. 0.994 sounds dry, you can prevent ml with sulfite. A better
> > test of dryness is to use clinitest tables, is there a wine shop near
> > you that will test it or can you get some? They are made by Bayer and
> > are available in some pharmacies by special order.
> >
> > If you think the wine is dry maybe add 25 PPM (1/8 teaspoon/ 5 gallons
> > wine) potassium metabisulfite and see if it stops. I would not go
> > higher than 50 PPM. It could just be slow in finishing too; 995 is not
> > necessarily dry. Hydrometers really measure dissolved solids and each
> > wine is different.
> >
> >
> > snpm wrote:
> > > Thanks Joe,
> > >
> > > The SG is 994 currently.
> > >
> > > What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
> > > you proceed?
> > > Thanks as always
> > >
> > > Sean
> > >
> > > Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > > > That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
> > > >
> > > > If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> > > > might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > > > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > > > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > > > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Thanks
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Sean
> > > > > > >

I am too thoroughly ignorant and newbie to have noticed

I added the sulphite as you suggested Joe and 12 hrs later the bubles
have nearly but not quite completely stopped.

Sean

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> There is an 'opps' in my post, apologies. They are Clinitest tablets,
> not tables.
>
> Joe
>
> snpm wrote:
> > Thank you, sir
> >
> >
> > Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > > Apples are malic acid, ML turns that to lactic and that may taste
> > > 'funny'. 0.994 sounds dry, you can prevent ml with sulfite. A better
> > > test of dryness is to use clinitest tables, is there a wine shop near
> > > you that will test it or can you get some? They are made by Bayer and
> > > are available in some pharmacies by special order.
> > >
> > > If you think the wine is dry maybe add 25 PPM (1/8 teaspoon/ 5 gallons
> > > wine) potassium metabisulfite and see if it stops. I would not go
> > > higher than 50 PPM. It could just be slow in finishing too; 995 is not
> > > necessarily dry. Hydrometers really measure dissolved solids and each
> > > wine is different.
> > >
> > >
> > > snpm wrote:
> > > > Thanks Joe,
> > > >
> > > > The SG is 994 currently.
> > > >
> > > > What kind of issue might the mf represent, and if you were me how would
> > > > you proceed?
> > > > Thanks as always
> > > >
> > > > Sean
> > > >
> > > > Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > > > > That may be no big deal. What is the SG?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't use sulfites it could be malolactic fermentation and that
> > > > > might be and issue in apple wine. The bubbles of ML are tiny usually.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Why is this still visibly bubbling away after a month in the secondary?
> > > > > > > >> Is this a problem? If it is, is there something I should do?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Again, I'm not in a hurry, but Im not used to seeing such a long
> > > > > > > >> fermentation at such a rate of bubble production. It's made me curious
> > > > > > > >> to ask the group what you all think.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Any thoughts/advice/observations?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Thanks
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Sean
> > > > > > > >

snpm wrote:
> I am too thoroughly ignorant and newbie to have noticed
>
> I added the sulphite as you suggested Joe and 12 hrs later the bubles
> have nearly but not quite completely stopped.
>
> Sean
>

It may take some time for the bubbles to stop completely as the
disolved CO2 works its way out of solution.

Not only will MLF make the wine flabby but a lot of the apple "taste"
comes from the malic acid. If a lot of it is converted to lactic acid
you may not have the apple taste you were hoping for.

Andy