Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 26-03-2006, 07:30 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

From everything I've read, if you add potassium sorbate to a currently
fermenting wine it wont do anything to stop it, but I was wondering if
you chilled the wine to make the yeast go into hybernation and added
sulfites and sorbate, would it stop it, or would it still start up and
use the residual sugar when it warmed back up?
(Got a cranberry wine that's been SLOWLY bubbling for over a month,
with a drop of .002 s.g. in all that time.)


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Old 27-03-2006, 12:56 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation


"Mr. Wolfie" wrote in message
ups.com...
From everything I've read, if you add potassium sorbate to a currently

fermenting wine it wont do anything to stop it, but I was wondering if
you chilled the wine to make the yeast go into hybernation and added
sulfites and sorbate, would it stop it, or would it still start up and
use the residual sugar when it warmed back up?
(Got a cranberry wine that's been SLOWLY bubbling for over a month,
with a drop of .002 s.g. in all that time.)


Potassium sorbate prevents yeast cells from budding (reproducing).
Consequently, sorbate is only effective when the yeast population is small.
Chill your wine, stop fermentation and let the yeast settle. Then rack the
wine off of the yeast lees to reduce the yeast population. You may need to
repeat this operation a couple of times to get your wine clean enough for
sorbate to be effective.
Good luck,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA



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Old 27-03-2006, 05:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
Jim Jim is offline
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Default Stopping fermentation

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:56:42 GMT, "Lum Eisenman"
wrote:


"Mr. Wolfie" wrote in message
oups.com...
From everything I've read, if you add potassium sorbate to a currently

fermenting wine it wont do anything to stop it, but I was wondering if
you chilled the wine to make the yeast go into hybernation and added
sulfites and sorbate, would it stop it, or would it still start up and
use the residual sugar when it warmed back up?
(Got a cranberry wine that's been SLOWLY bubbling for over a month,
with a drop of .002 s.g. in all that time.)


Potassium sorbate prevents yeast cells from budding (reproducing).
Consequently, sorbate is only effective when the yeast population is small.
Chill your wine, stop fermentation and let the yeast settle. Then rack the
wine off of the yeast lees to reduce the yeast population. You may need to
repeat this operation a couple of times to get your wine clean enough for
sorbate to be effective.
Good luck,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA


Mr. Lum what about sterile filtering after you rack?
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Old 27-03-2006, 05:25 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

Not really an option for me or I would have done it already. Major lack
of funds ;-)

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Old 27-03-2006, 06:01 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation


"Jim" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:56:42 GMT, "Lum Eisenman"
wrote:


"Mr. Wolfie" wrote in message
oups.com...
From everything I've read, if you add potassium sorbate to a currently
fermenting wine it wont do anything to stop it, but I was wondering if
you chilled the wine to make the yeast go into hybernation and added
sulfites and sorbate, would it stop it, or would it still start up and
use the residual sugar when it warmed back up?
(Got a cranberry wine that's been SLOWLY bubbling for over a month,
with a drop of .002 s.g. in all that time.)


Potassium sorbate prevents yeast cells from budding (reproducing).
Consequently, sorbate is only effective when the yeast population is

small.
Chill your wine, stop fermentation and let the yeast settle. Then rack

the
wine off of the yeast lees to reduce the yeast population. You may need

to
repeat this operation a couple of times to get your wine clean enough for
sorbate to be effective.
Good luck,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA


Mr. Lum what about sterile filtering after you rack?


That is the way wineries stabilize wine containing residual sugar. But, the
bottle filler, corker, corks, bottles, etc all must be sterile as well.





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Old 27-03-2006, 08:03 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
pp pp is offline
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Default Stopping fermentation


Lum Eisenman wrote:

Potassium sorbate prevents yeast cells from budding (reproducing).
Consequently, sorbate is only effective when the yeast population is small.
Chill your wine, stop fermentation and let the yeast settle. Then rack the
wine off of the yeast lees to reduce the yeast population. You may need to
repeat this operation a couple of times to get your wine clean enough for
sorbate to be effective.
Good luck,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA


I went through this this year but couldn't get the temperature cold
enough to stop the ferment completely, so I've also added the sorbate
to create worse conditions for the yeast. I then fined within next 2
months with bentonite and Sparkalloid and finally filtered with the #2
Mini Jet filter.

My question is - is the sorbate I added early in the process still
fully active? The wine is clear and there doesn't seem to be any
activity, and I'm trying to keep the sorbate additions to minimum as I
am sensitive to its smell, so I'm hoping the answer is yes.

Thx,

Pp

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Old 27-03-2006, 08:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation


"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...

Lum Eisenman wrote:

Potassium sorbate prevents yeast cells from budding (reproducing).
Consequently, sorbate is only effective when the yeast population is

small.
Chill your wine, stop fermentation and let the yeast settle. Then rack

the
wine off of the yeast lees to reduce the yeast population. You may need

to
repeat this operation a couple of times to get your wine clean enough

for
sorbate to be effective.
Good luck,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA


I went through this this year but couldn't get the temperature cold
enough to stop the ferment completely, so I've also added the sorbate
to create worse conditions for the yeast. I then fined within next 2
months with bentonite and Sparkalloid and finally filtered with the #2
Mini Jet filter.

My question is - is the sorbate I added early in the process still
fully active? The wine is clear and there doesn't seem to be any
activity, and I'm trying to keep the sorbate additions to minimum as I
am sensitive to its smell, so I'm hoping the answer is yes.

Thx,

Pp


I don't know. But I suspect there is little sorbic acid left in your wine.


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Old 29-03-2006, 05:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

As others have said, sorbate works by preventing yeast budding or
reproduction, not by killing the yeast. If you slow the yeast activity down
in some way such as chilling, the yeast and other substances will settle to
the bottom. Yeast activity and CO2 generation keeps things in suspension.
You can help by using a fining agent to take things out of suspension and
forcing it to the bottom after yeast activity has slowed or stopped. The
faster it is cleared the less likely the yeast will kick off again before
you are ready. I like SuperKlear for light or white wines. it can clear a
wine overnight.

Once it is pretty much clear, rack it off the sediment and you will leave
the yeast behind. Now you can treat it with sorbate and sulfite and prevent
the few remaining yeast from reproducing again. Let it set for a month to
allow any further sediment and yeast to drop out and bottle. By this time
there will be so few yeast that they will not cause a problem However, if
you did not treat with sorbate, over time, a few yeast can reproduce and
become a big problem.

Ray

"Mr. Wolfie" wrote in message
ups.com...
From everything I've read, if you add potassium sorbate to a currently

fermenting wine it wont do anything to stop it, but I was wondering if
you chilled the wine to make the yeast go into hybernation and added
sulfites and sorbate, would it stop it, or would it still start up and
use the residual sugar when it warmed back up?
(Got a cranberry wine that's been SLOWLY bubbling for over a month,
with a drop of .002 s.g. in all that time.)




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Old 08-04-2006, 12:13 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

I hate using sorbate too but use it anyway since there is no way I can
guarantee sterility in my cellar, it's impossible on the scale I work
at. I make some wines sweet for others although I can see why they
like them. ( It takes a lot for me to admit some wines are better
sweet, but I'm doing that here....)

Why not go through the No 1 pads (the green ones) and sorbate at the
minimum level? I can't guarantee it's going to work but it's what I
would do. You could just rack and take one bottle off and warm it.
Racking and warmth always seem to get things going if they are going
to. You could use that as a guide for your decisions.

Joe

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Old 08-04-2006, 01:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation


Joe Sallustio wrote:

Why not go through the No 1 pads (the green ones) and sorbate at the
minimum level? I can't guarantee it's going to work but it's what I
would do. You could just rack and take one bottle off and warm it.
Racking and warmth always seem to get things going if they are going
to. You could use that as a guide for your decisions.

Joe


Thanks, Joe, that's basically what I'm trying to do. I think the finest
pads are #3 and not #1 - not sure about the colour - I'm assuming those
are the ones you meant? I used them only once before on a white and
although it looked very clear, I had a huge amount of bypass and had to
run it through the filter 3-4 times to avoid losing too much wine. I
also picked up some metallic taste from the bypass wine - I think it's
running over the screws somewhere in the filter, so taken together,
I've decided not to use the fine pads on MiniJet. It might be somehing
about my filtering technique but as far as I can tell, I'm doing things
correctly per instructions.

The particular difficulty in this case is that having used the sorbate
before it should be used, I don't know what it the minimal level - that
was the gist of my question. If all sorbate I had added is still
active, I am at the minimum level already; if it's partially or
completely gone, I need to add up to the same amount I already added.
And since I can't measure it, I might end up with the sorbate
taste/smell that I hate.

The wine has been sitting in carboys and some bottles for 3 weeks now
in my living room after the filtering and I'mnot detecting any signes
of activity, so I think I'll risk it. Next time though I'll wait with
the sorbate after the wine clears up.

Pp



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Old 08-04-2006, 02:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

I follow you, I'm in Amarillo now so can't speak to what I use as the
minimum level but should be home tomorrow.

I have bypass problems on my mini-jet too, I really tighten mine up at
first. What I do is run the nut in until it just applies a little
pressure, bring the other up to that point and then count turns keeping
them the same. I take it as tight as you can get by hand. That
usually does 7 gallons with minimal bypass, after that it's iffy. I
run the bypass line into a separate gallon and suck it back out if It
starts to get out of hand. I have only done whites with the 'sterile'
filter, all I remember is it's green printing. The middle one is red,
I have a coarse one that is blue but have never used it.

I would chance it myself; if it restarts you can always put it back in
carboys and let it finish. I don't know any cheap way to measure
sorbic acid content either so follow your dilemma. It sounds still, a
mini-jet should have stirred things up. It's at room temperature now
so what about warming one of those bottles up to around 100 F with a
heating pad or a low wattage incandescent bulb? If it doesn't go at
that point I think you are OK.

Joe

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Old 08-04-2006, 04:53 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

"Joe Sallustio" wrote in message
oups.com...
I hate using sorbate too but use it anyway since there is no way I can
guarantee sterility in my cellar, it's impossible on the scale I work
at.


I've been reading this thread and decided to comment on a couple of points.

First off, you shouldn't find sterile filtration to be that daunting. I've
done it at home and had no problems with re-fermentation in vitro. It isn't
necessary to remove every last yeast cell before bottling. That's pretty
much impossible to accomplish even at a commercial winery. You do need to
run the wine through a sterile membrane filter though, and they are
expensive. Fortunately, they are also reusable if used correctly and will
last a_long_ time if you run nothing but well filtered wine through them.
You also need to be sure the wine has adequate sulfite prior to bottling.

Secondly, if you folks are having trouble with filter media loading up on
you, it's probably because the wine wasn't clarified sufficiently prior to
filtration. The best candidates for filtration are wines that really don't
_look_ like they need to be filtered.

Here's a little tip: A light bentonite fining (1 or 2 lbs./1000 gal.) aids
filtration by dropping out mucilaginous sugars that are invisible to the
eye, but tend to blind filter media. Most winemakers don't think reds
require bentoniting, but you and the wines certainly can benefit from it.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com


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Old 08-04-2006, 04:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

, I might end up with the sorbate
taste/smell that I hate.

Pp


Hi Pp

Try switching to Sodium Benzoate. I'm sure you will be pleasantly
surprised. HTH

Frederick


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Old 08-04-2006, 08:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation


frederick ploegman wrote:
, I might end up with the sorbate
taste/smell that I hate.

Pp


Hi Pp

Try switching to Sodium Benzoate. I'm sure you will be pleasantly
surprised. HTH

Frederick


Just as long as there is no ascorbic acid in the wine. Apparently
ascorbic acid can break down benzoate into benzene, a carcinogen. It
has been fairly big in the news lately.

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Old 09-04-2006, 06:03 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Stopping fermentation

Frederick - In your experience what concentration of Sodium Benzoate is
needed to prevent fermentation in a sweetened wine?
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"frederick ploegman" wrote in message
...
, I might end up with the sorbate
taste/smell that I hate.

Pp


Hi Pp

Try switching to Sodium Benzoate. I'm sure you will be pleasantly
surprised. HTH

Frederick





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